Achilles (65 Rg.)

Achilles (65 Rg.)

Achilles (65 Rg.)

Britain

III Rank

Battle rating:

AB	RB	SB
3.7	3.3	3.3

Class:

PREMIUM

Tank destroyer

Purchase:Bundle or Gift

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This page is about the premium British tank destroyer Achilles (65 Rg.). For standard version, see Achilles.

Description

The 17pdr. M10 (65th Anti-Tank Regt) (shortened to Achilles (65 Rg.), full name 17 pounder, Self-Propelled M10 Achilles (65th Anti-Tank Regiment)) is a premium gift rank III British tank destroyer with a battle rating of 3.7 (AB) and 3.3 (RB/SB). It was introduced in Update 1.53 "Firestorm" and was one of the first British tanks introduced in the game. It is an Achilles tank destroyer with insignia of 7th Armored Division, 65th Anti-Tank Regiment "Norfolk Yeomanry".

The Achilles is based on the American M10 GMC, but carries a 17-pounder cannon as the main armament, making it an effective tank destroyer. Thanks to a well assigned BR, the Achilles won't feel in the wrong game even when facing higher rank tanks. The Achilles has plenty of firepower, especially once the Mk.8 APCBC shot is unlocked, which is more effective against the T-34's sloped armour. The 17-pdr cuts through enemy Panzer III and IV (the shots enter the front and exit from the rear) so try to aim vital points to cause the maximum damage (first shot to the turret to disable enemy firepower). The T-34 is a bigger problem due to its sloped armour. When facing Russian tanks, the first shot should always be to the gunner. The Mk.8 APCBC is quite able to penetrate the T-34 glacis even from a distance but keep in mind that the damage caused is unreliable (sometimes two or more shots are required to destroy a T-34, sometimes one shot is enough). The M10 mobility is not outstanding, but the Achilles is pretty capable to carry the player, the gun, and the team to where it needs to go.

Protection is not good. The sloped armour and the track links added to the front will protect the Achilles from some low calibre shots, but the vast majority of the enemies will be able to destroy the Achilles easily. Side armour is paper thin. The high profile and the very slow turret traverse (man-powered) are not suitable for close range combat so avoid deep flanking tactics.

General info

Survivability and armour

Armour type:

• Rolled homogeneous armour
• Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet, Transmission area)
• Structural steel (Counterweight)

Armour	Front	Sides	Rear	Roof
Hull	38.1 mm (55°) Front glacis 50.8 mm (7-55°) Transmission area	19.05 mm (38°) Top hull 25.4 mm Bottom hull	19.05 (28-33°) Top Hull 25.4 mm (7-52°) Bottom hull	19.05 mm Front 9.5 mm Rear
Turret	25.4 mm (66-88°) Turret front 57.15 mm (0-47°) Gun mantlet	25.4 mm (22-46°)	25.4 mm (1-29°) Turret rear 50 mm (0-50°) Counterweight	N/A

Notes:

• Suspension wheels and tracks are 20 mm thick while the bogies are 10 mm thick.
• Belly armour is 12.7 mm thick.
• Hull rear sides are protected by attached grousers that gives 20 mm of extra armour.
• Tracks placed on the front transmission area provide 30 mm extra armour.

Mobility

Game Mode	Max Speed (km/h)		Weight (tons)		Engine power (horsepower)		Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
	Forward	Reverse	Stock	AoA	Stock	Upgraded	Stock	Upgraded
Arcade	45	6	29.6	0.3	582	782	19.66	26.15
Realistic	42	5			363	410	12.26	13.71

Armaments

Main armament

76 mm OQF 17-pounder					Turret rotation speed (°/s)					Reloading rate (seconds)
Mode	Capacity	Vertical	Horizontal	Stabilizer	Stock	Upgraded	Full	Expert	Aced	Stock	Full	Expert	Aced
Arcade	__	-__°/+__°	±___°	__	__.__	__.__	__.__	__.__	__.__	_.__	_.__	_.__	_.__
Realistic					__.__	__.__	__.__	__.__	__.__

76 mm OQF 17-pounder
Capacity			Vertical guidance	Horizontal guidance	Stabilizer
50			-10°/+30°	±180°	N/A
Turret rotation speed (°/s)
Mode	Stock	Upgraded	Prior + Full crew	Prior + Expert qualif.	Prior + Ace qualif.
Arcade	3.96	5.48	__.__	__.__	7.84
Realistic	2.68	3.15	__.__	__.__	4.50
Reloading rate (seconds)
Stock	Prior + Full crew	Prior + Expert qualif.	Prior + Ace qualif.
8.71	__.__	__.__	6.7

Ammunition

Penetration statistics
Ammunition	Type of warhead	Penetration in mm @ 0° Angle of Attack
		10m	100m	500m	1000m	1500m	2000m
Shot Mk.6	AP	171	168	155	139	126	113
Shell Mk.1	HE	9	9	9	9	9	9
Shot Mk.4	APC	171	168	155	139	126	113
Shot Mk.8	APCBC	190	187	172	155	140	126

Shell details
Ammunition	Type of warhead	Velocity in m/s	Projectile Mass in kg	Fuse delay in m:	Fuse sensitivity in mm:	Explosive Mass in g (TNT equivalent):	Normalization At 30° from horizontal:	Ricochet:
								0%	50%	100%
Shot Mk.6	AP	883	7.71	N/A	N/A	N/A	-1°	47°	60°	65°
Shell Mk.1	HE	883	6.98	0.4	0.5	580	+0°	79°	80°	81°
Shot Mk.4	APC	883	7.71	N/A	N/A	N/A	-1°	48°	63°	71°
Shot Mk.8	APCBC	883	7.71	N/A	N/A	N/A	+4°	48°	63°	71°

Smoke characteristic
Ammunition	Velocity in m/s	Projectile Mass in kg	Screen radius in m	Screen time in s	Screen hold time in s:	Explosive Mass in g (TNT equivalent):
17pdr Shell SS Mk.1	754	8.44	13	5	20	50

Ammo racks

Ammo rack of the Achilles.

Full ammo	1st rack empty	2nd rack empty	3rd rack empty	4th rack empty	5th rack empty	6th rack empty	Visual discrepancy
50	48 (+2)	45 (+5)	34 (+16)	23 (+27)	12 (+38)	1 (+49)	Yes

Turret empty: 45 (+5)

Optics

Explain how the optic's status can affect the tank's gameplay in any unique or meaningful way. A comparison to rival tanks of the rank is welcome.

If you are having problems with it, refer to the optics gallery page for examples.

Achilles (65 Rg.) Optics
Which ones	Default magnification	Maximum magnification
Main Gun optics	x1.85	x3.5
Comparable optics	M10 GMC

Machine guns

12.7 mm M2HB
Pintle mount
Capacity (Belt capacity)				Fire rate (shots/minute)	Vertical guidance	Horizontal guidance
300 (200)				577	-10°/+70°	±60°

Usage in battles

The Achilles is best used for sniping and shoot and scoot tactics. Find a good spot where to shoot at enemies, aim carefully (RB need a good use of mils range estimation) and enjoy the fireworks! To make full use of its decent sniping capacity, find a spot that:

• overlooks key passageway / street / battle area
• is not too close to the frontline
• has slopes, hard covers or bushes
• is not too hard to get to

With a location like that, the Achilles can utilise its -10° gun depression and use hull down. Its turret front and mantlet can consistently cause ricochets especially in a downtier. Looming behind bushes, an Achille's well aimed shots should be able to knock out most enemy tanks at the battle-rating range from long range. Even if you get spotted, any slope or hard covers will provide protection for you.

Keep in mind the low fire rate (compared to other 17-pdr AFVs). Once the Achilles has destroyed (or damaged) the enemy the best thing to do is to relocate. Don't stay in the same spot for too long: the Achilles has weak armour and an open top. Artillery barrages will cripple the Achilles or the crew.

Another thing to think about is the turret traverse. Yes... It is **really** slow. Therefore, some changes need to be made in the typical play style. If the Achilles need to target an enemy quickly, do not rely on the turret. Instead, traverse the entire tank so that the hull is facing the enemy head-on, similar to turretless, casemate style tank destroyers. To avoid situations like this, stay way back, avoiding urban areas and other areas where the Achilles will be flanked easily.

Enemies worth noting:

R3 T20 FA-HS: this vehicle is the exact opposite tank when comparing to an Achilles: extremely high topspeed, great traverse and fast gun rotation. A well-maneuvered R3 can easily circle around the Achilles and shoot AP shells through the thin side, while the Achilles struggles to get the gun on target even when traversing the hull with the gun. If you know an R3 is around, you better turn your hull towards the possible direction and be ready to engage. Move the hull with the gun to target quicker. Even if you miss, the M2 Browning can still penetrate the R3 and knock out its crews. Note that a side shot on the R3 does not guarantee a kill as the crew are pretty separated. The R3 can run away and repair for another attack. A frontal shot, however, is likely to one shot it as the crew are all lined up.

8,8 cm Flak 37 Sfl.: also known as the "flak truck", it is rather hard to knock out due to the fact that its armor is so thin that almost every shell will over-penetrate, dealing almost no critical damage. Plus this vehicle mostly face their side to the targets, making it even harder to kill them as the crew are all far apart. So it can usually take quite some hits and take out the shooters one by one. As the shooter, aim for the left side of its turret first to disable its gunner first, then knock out the rest of its crew (right turret & driving compartment). Do not hope that the M2 HB can kill the crews, the "flak truck" 's armor is too thick for any MG to penetrate.

Modules

Tier	Mobility		Protection	Firepower
I	Tracks		Parts	Shot Mk.4	Horizontal Drive
II	Suspension	Brake System	FPE	Shot Mk.8	Adjustment of Fire
III	Filters		Crew Replenishment	Elevation Mechanism
IV	Transmission	Engine	Add-on Armor	17pdr Shell SS Mk.1
This is a premium vehicle: all modifications are unlocked on purchase

Pros and cons

Pros:

• Good gun (17-pounder!)
• High level of penetration. Will often pass through the front of lighter vehicles and leave through the back.
• Premium vehicle - instant access to the best shell (Shot Mk.8)
• Good speed
• 5 crew members
• .50 cal Heavy machine gun on top to fight lightly armoured tanks and aircraft
• Sloped armour makes incoming rounds more likely to ricochet
• Spare tracks that provided some limited protection on the front and the rear section of the side armour.
• Good gun depression

Cons:

• Armour is rather thin
• Big ammo racks
• Open top turret makes it vulnerable to artillery and strafing planes
• Very slow turret traverse
• Lack of explosive filler for AP shells
• Handling is poor on some rough terrain before mobility modifications are researched
• Reverse speed is bad
• Low ammo reserve for Commander's machine gun (300 rds total)

History

Development

The M10 tank destroyer was developed in 1942 to fulfil the anti-tank doctrine established by the US military. The doctrine, creating the tank destroyer force, was established with the objective to stop German blitzkrieg tactics by attacking the tanks. Unlike the other armoured fighting vehicles in the theatre, the tank destroyers were made to be placed in reserves to counter any breach in the front lines by taking out the enemy with ambushes. This role led to the desire for a fast vehicle with a powerful gun; armour was not a concern due to the emphasis in speed. The design ended up taking a turret design developed from the M6A1 Heavy Tank and the body from the M4A2 Sherman, this with the 3-inch 1918 gun, provided the backbone of the American tank destroyer force in much of World War II. In total, 6,706 M10s and its variants were produced between September of 1942 to 1943 of the same month.

British Use

These M10s were given out to America’s allies, though the British were the most well-known of these users, receiving about 1,650 M10s from the Americans from 1943 onward. The British designated the M10s under their service as the Achilles and unlike popular usage, was called that for both the 3-inch gun variant (Achilles I/II) and the variant mounting the 17-pounder (Achillies Ic / IIc). Though in most usage, the vehicle was called the 17pdr M10, or 17pdr SP M10, or even the "Firefly", despite that name being used for a different design.

The British first received the M10s with the 3-inch cannons, which were much more powerful than the British tank armament at the time, giving them an edge in many tank confrontations in the North African Campaign. It was around 1943 that conversion is done onto the M10 to increase its firepower capabilities against the gradually upgraded German tank designs such as the Tiger I and the Panthers. The conversion used one of the best Allied anti-tank guns at the time, the 17-pounder, which could penetrate about 140 mm of armour at 500 meters away with APCBC rounds, and 209 mm at the same distance with APDS rounds (Armour-Penetrating Discarding Sabot). The conversion is done onto the M10 also required a counterweight to be placed on the 17-pounder to compensate the heavier weight of the 17-pounder compared to the 3-inch gun. This gave the M10 Achilles a much more defining profile and attempts were made to hide this larger cannon length with optical illusion. Aside from the gun conversion, the M10 Achilles also had an extra 17 mm of armour welded onto the front and sides of the hull for added protection, plus a 20 mm shield on the top of the turret to compensate for the open-turret design. About 1,000 M10 Achilles with the 17-pounders were ordered, but by D-Day, only 124 were available, and 816 were done by the end of the year. The low number of these converted Achilles made meant that any lost units were hard to replace with a 17-pounder one, and the disgruntled crew would be issued an M10 with a 3-inch gun instead. In the end, about a total of 1,000 Achilles were converted into 17-pounder ones by the end of World War II, making the M10 Achilles the second-most numerous design to mount the 17-pounder, coming before the Sherman Firefly.

The Achilles were issued out as part of the Royal Artillery in armoured divisions in anti-tank regiments. One of such regiments was the 65th Anti-Tank Regiment assigned to the 7th Armoured division during 1942 and onward until the end of the war.

Combat Usage

The British doctrine with the Achilles differed from the Americans who saw it as a reserve tank destroyer. The British viewed the Achilles as a mobile anti-tank gun, thus the Achilles served in a role akin to the StuG III in German service, moving the 17-pounder into position to take a shot on incoming German Tiger or Panther tanks. These Achilles were used more with Churchill tank units rather than the medium tanks due to the lack of 17-pounder equipped on Churchills while the medium tanks have the Firefly available for use. Disadvantages with the M10 Achilles design were carried over from the original, the slow turret traverse speed, high profile, and open-top turret made it a rather harder vehicle to use than a regular tank, but it still had its advantages and was still suitable for the role it had.

The Achilles were deployed on D-Day onward in artillery forces in anti-tank regiments in armoured divisions. A typical anti-tank regiment would have four batteries, two with towed 17-pounders, one equipped with 17-pounder Achilles, and another with regular M10s with the 3-inch gun (though replaced with another Achilles unit once more were available). A notable event with the Achilles was during Operation Charnwood, where Achilles in the 62nd Anti-Tank Regiment fought off a German counterattack comprising of Panzer IVs and Panthers from the 12th Panzer Regiment were routed by the Achilles 17-pounder fires, destroying about 13 German tanks with the loss of four Achilles knocked out and four more damaged.

Media

Skin and Camouflages for the Achilles (65 Rg.) in Warthunder Live.

See also

• Achilles - Normal tech tree version.

External links

• [Devblog] Pioneering British Tanks in War Thunder with developer's answers
  
• [Wikipedia] 17pdr SP Achilles

Britain tank destroyers
Infantry tank derivatives	Archer · Gun Carrier (3-in)
Light tank derivatives	Alecto I
M10 Achilles	Achilles · Achilles (65 Rg.)
Centurion derivatives	FV4005 · Conway
ATGM	Swingfire · Striker
Other	Tortoise · ▄M109A1
Canada	QF 3.7 Ram
South Africa	G6 · ZT3A2