Difference between revisions of "AMX-50 Foch"

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{{Specs-Card|code=fr_amx_50_foch}}
 
 
{{About
 
{{About
−
|about=tank destroyer '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
+
| about = French tank destroyer '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
−
|usage=other uses
+
| usage = other versions
−
|link=AMX-50 (Family)
+
| link = AMX-50 (Family)
 +
}}
 +
{{Specs-Card
 +
|code=fr_amx_50_foch
 +
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
 
}}
 
}}
  
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
−
<!--''In the description, the first part needs to be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert the screenshot of the vehicle. If the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, they will immediately understand what kind of vehicle it is talking about.''-->
+
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
−
[[File:GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
+
The AMX-50 Heavy Tank was quite powerful, but DEFA wanted to procure a heavier 120mm self-propelled gun, however, problems soon started to appear. The weight was the main factor that hampered the development of the vehicle since the speed was deemed too low. In the end, the Canon Automoteur AMX-50 Foch was developed, named after Marshal Ferdinand Foch. Doctrinally, the AMX-50 Foch was supposed to provide long-range support to the regular AMX-50 tanks, there were plans to upgrade the vehicle with a 155mm cannon but the project was never seriously pursued.
−
{{break}}
+
 
−
The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a Rank {{Specs|rank}} French tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced during [[Update 1.75 "La Résistance"]].
+
It was introduced in [[Update 1.75 "La Résistance"]] along with the initial French ground tree. The '''{{Specs|name}}'''  is quite a sturdy tank destroyer, it has enough armour to withstand regular APHE and AP projectiles, except for APCR and HEAT-FS, which start to be more common around its BR. It is not the fastest or most agile tank destroyer in the game, but for its size, is quite agile, but since it uses a fixed gun and not a turret, it is more susceptible to flanking manoeuvres by lighter vehicles armed with autocannons or recoilless rifles. Overall, the tank features a powerful gun capable of dealing with anything at its BR, and has enough armour to deal with late WWII vehicles, although it suffers against early Cold War designs such as the T-54 and the M48. 
  
 
== General info ==
 
== General info ==
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
−
<!--''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat?''
+
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}
 +
<!-- ''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat? If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.'' -->
 +
 
 +
The AMX-50 Foch is able to withstand every single round it faces in combat except HEATFS and 105 mm APCR sub-calibre shots frontally. It is often confused with the [[CA Lorraine]] and vice-versa due to its similarities in profile, size and frontal plate. For the same reason, people may think you are fragile yet you are one of the toughest armour to crack at the battle rating. Only the front is the strong section of the tank. Roof, rear and sides are the most vulnerable places of the tank, even for 20 mm autocannons.
 +
 
 +
Regarding crew compartment, despite being not too tight but not huge either, it has a high survivability specially for the number of crew members and the huge breech of the 120 mm cannon (they will most likely destroy your breech with a side shot but it will stop most of the spalling). The ammunition is located at the rear of the crew compartment (in front of engine deck) an at the hull sides. This makes the Foch one of the easiest tanks to ammo rack at the battle rating. The tank has a crew amount of 5 crewmen: driver, gunner, commander and two loaders, one of them is the machine gunner
  
−
''If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.''-->
 
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
|-
 
|-
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| Hull || 180mm (55°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 100 mm (60°) ''Lower glacis'' <br> 180-300 (0-72°) + 180 mm ''Gun mantlet'' || 40 mm (15°) ''Top'' <br> 40 mm ''Bottom'' || 40 mm ''Top'' <br> 40 mm (40°) ''Bottom'' || 30 mm ''Fighting compartment'' <br> 20 mm ''Engine deck'' <br> 90 mm ''Gun mantlet''
 
| Hull || 180mm (55°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 100 mm (60°) ''Lower glacis'' <br> 180-300 (0-72°) + 180 mm ''Gun mantlet'' || 40 mm (15°) ''Top'' <br> 40 mm ''Bottom'' || 40 mm ''Top'' <br> 40 mm (40°) ''Bottom'' || 30 mm ''Fighting compartment'' <br> 20 mm ''Engine deck'' <br> 90 mm ''Gun mantlet''
 
|-
 
|-
−
! Armour !! Sides !! Roof
+
| Cupola || 200 mm || 30 mm  || 30 mm || 30 mm
−
|-
 
−
| Cupola || 200 mm ''Front'' <br> 30 mm ''Everywhere else'' || 30 mm
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
 +
 
'''Notes:'''
 
'''Notes:'''
  
Line 34: Line 40:
  
 
=== Mobility ===
 
=== Mobility ===
−
<!--''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.''-->
+
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
<!-- ''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.'' -->
−
|-
+
 
−
! colspan="3" | Mobility characteristic
+
{{tankMobility|abMinHp=1,420|rbMinHp=884}}
−
|-
+
 
−
! Weight (tons)
+
The AMX-50 Foch is not as fast as compared with other turretless tank destroyers as the [[JPz 4-5]] but not as slow as the [[Jagdtiger]]. Despite being huge, it is absurdly fast and agile for a tank its size due to being mounted on an AMX-50 chassis but with stronger armour than the Jagdtiger. As the rest of the French tanks, it has excellent neutral steering but the reverse speed is horrible. It is compensated with a tremendous horsepower and armour as well as a potent main gun. It should not be played as fast as the JPz 4-5 as well as risky but it should not be fully played as bastion defence.
−
! colspan="1" | Add-on Armor<br>weight (tons)
+
 
−
! colspan="1" | Max speed (km/h)
+
=== Modifications and economy ===
−
|-
+
{{Specs-Economy}}
−
| rowspan="2" | 58.0 || colspan="1" rowspan="2" | N/A || colspan="1" | 54 (AB)
 
−
|-
 
−
|50 (RB/SB)
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="3" | Engine power (horsepower)
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="1" | Mode
 
−
!Stock
 
−
!Upgraded
 
−
|-
 
−
|''Arcade''
 
−
|1,420
 
−
|___
 
−
|-
 
−
|''Realistic/Simulator''
 
−
|884
 
−
|___
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="3" | Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="1" | Mode
 
−
!Stock
 
−
!Upgraded
 
−
|-
 
−
|''Arcade''
 
−
|24.48
 
−
|__.__
 
−
|-
 
−
|''Realistic/Simulator''
 
−
|15.24
 
−
|__.__
 
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
  
 +
== Armaments ==
 +
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
 
=== Main armament ===
 
=== Main armament ===
−
<!--''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.''-->
+
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}
 +
<!-- ''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.'' -->
 
{{main|SA46 (120 mm)}}
 
{{main|SA46 (120 mm)}}
  
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
The AMX-50 Foch can be considered as a hybrid between the [[CA Lorraine]] and the [[AMX-50 Surbaisse]]: it shares the height of the Lorraine but mobility and the firepower of the AMX-50 Surbaisse. The gun has a use and ballistic similar to the Surbaisse (both share the same ammunition).
−
|-
+
 
−
! colspan="6" | [[SA46 (120 mm)|120 mm SA46]]
+
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="3" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Vertical <br> guidance
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Stabilizer
 
−
|-
 
−
| colspan="3" | 48 || -6°/+16° || ±9° || N/A
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="6" | Turret rotation speed (°/s)
 
−
|-
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Mode
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Stock
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Upgraded
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| ''Arcade'' || __.__ || __.__ || __.__ || __.__ || __.__
+
! colspan="5" | [[SA46 (120 mm)|120 mm SA46]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
 
|-
 
|-
−
| ''Realistic'' || __.__ || __.__ || __.__ || __.__ || __.__
+
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
 +
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
 +
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
+
! ''Arcade''
 +
| rowspan="2" | 48 || rowspan="2" | -6°/+17° || rowspan="2" | ±9° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 5.3 || 7.3 || 8.9 || 9.8 || 10.5 || rowspan="2" | 19.37 || rowspan="2" | 17.14 || rowspan="2" | 15.79 || rowspan="2" | 14.90
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Stock
+
! ''Realistic''
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
+
| 3.6 || 4.2 || 5.1 || 5.6 || 6.0
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
 
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
−
|-
 
−
| 19.4 || __.__ || __.__ || __.__
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
−
===== Ammunition =====
+
==== Ammunition ====
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
+
''APBC:'' This is the first and only anti-tank ammunition the AMX-50 Foch. Despite having a "low" penetration (compared to other rounds seen at the battle rating) it should not be underestimated. It has the penetration to deal with all heavy tanks frontally (with exception of Maus and E-100) as well as enough spalling to destroy lightly armoured vehicles. This round is a 90% confirmed knock-out with a single shot due to its tremendous mass.
−
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
+
 
−
|-
+
{{:SA46 (120 mm)/Ammunition|120 mm Obus de rupture, 120 mm Obus explosif}}
−
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 
−
! rowspan="2" class="unsortable" | Type of <br /> warhead
 
−
! colspan="6" | '''Penetration''' '''''in mm''''' '''@ 0° Angle of Attack'''
 
−
|-
 
−
! 10m
 
−
! 100m
 
−
! 500m
 
−
! 1000m
 
−
! 1500m
 
−
! 2000m
 
−
|-
 
−
| 120 mm Obus de rupture || AP || 303 || 302 || 286 || 267 || 251 || 235
 
−
|-
 
−
| 120 mm Obus explosif || HE || 39 || 39 || 39 || 39 || 39 || 39
 
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 
−
! colspan="11" | Shell details
 
−
|-
 
−
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 
−
! rowspan="2" class="unsortable" | Type of <br /> warhead
 
−
! rowspan="2" |Velocity <br /> in m/s
 
−
! rowspan="2" |Projectile<br />Mass in kg
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Fuse delay''
 
−
''in m:''
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Fuse sensitivity''
 
−
''in mm:''
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Explosive Mass in g<br /> (TNT equivalent):''
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Normalization At 30° <br> from horizontal:''
 
−
! colspan="3" | ''Ricochet:''
 
−
|-
 
−
! 0%
 
−
! 50%
 
−
! 100%
 
−
|-
 
−
| 120 mm Obus de rupture || AP || 1,067 || 23 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ° || 48° || 63° || 71°
 
−
|-
 
−
| 120 mm Obus explosif || HE || 762 || 23 || 0.1 || 0.1 || 4,650 || +0° || 79° || 80° || 81°
 
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
  
−
===== [[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] =====
+
==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
−
[[File:Ammoracks_AMX-50_Foch.png|right|thumbnail|x250px|[[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] of the AMX-50 Foch.]]
+
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
+
<!-- '''Last updated:''' -->
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 
|-
 
|-
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Full<br /> ammo
+
! Full<br>ammo
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |1st<br /> rack empty
+
! 1st<br>rack empty
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |2nd<br /> rack empty
+
! 2nd<br>rack empty
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |3rd<br /> rack empty
+
! 3rd<br>rack empty
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |4th<br /> rack empty
+
! 4th<br>rack empty
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |5th<br /> rack empty
+
! 5th<br>rack empty
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Visual<br /> discrepancy
+
! Visual<br>discrepancy
 
|-
 
|-
−
|| '''48''' || 43&nbsp;''(+5)'' || 31&nbsp;''(+17)'' || 19&nbsp;''(+29)'' || 5&nbsp;''(+43)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+47)'' || style="text-align:left" | yes
+
| '''48''' || 43&nbsp;''(+5)'' || 31&nbsp;''(+17)'' || 19&nbsp;''(+29)'' || 5&nbsp;''(+43)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+47)'' || Yes
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
 +
'''Note''':
  
−
Right side empty: 19&nbsp;(+29)
+
* Right side empty: 19&nbsp;(+29) shells.
  
 
=== Machine guns ===
 
=== Machine guns ===
−
<!--''Offensive and anti-aircraft machine guns not only allow you to fight some aircraft but also are effective against lightly armoured vehicles. Evaluate machine guns and give recommendations on its use.''-->
+
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}
−
{{main|MG 151/15 (15 mm)}}
+
<!-- ''Offensive and anti-aircraft machine guns not only allow you to fight some aircraft but also are effective against lightly armoured vehicles. Evaluate machine guns and give recommendations on its use.'' -->
 +
{{main|MG 151 (15 mm)}}
 +
 
 +
The MG151 can be considered as one of the most reliable HMG (Heavy Machine Gun) in game due to multiple factors: ammunition capacity, muzzle velocity and penetration, stopping power and rate of fire. It is a Jack-of-all-trades when it comes to ground battles, it has a faster muzzle velocity than 20 mm cannons but has more destructive power than the 14.5 mm (Russian HMG calibre) machine gun but it overheats really fast. The MG151 is almost exclusive to this specific tank and is able of doing multiple things:
  
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
* Immediate ground defence: this machine gun is able to damage and destroyed external components of all tanks (tracks, gun barrels, etc), destroy lightly armoured vehicles (with armour thinner than 45 mm), obstruction removal (fences, walls, etc) and spotting.
 +
* Immediate air defence: due to being roof mounted inside a cupola with a 360° rotation and a 20° elevation, it is able to critically damage low-flying aircraft. This belt has AP-I round which can cause fatal damage on all low flying aircraft (it often lights them on fire or damages their engine).
 +
 
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="7" | [[MG 151/15 (15 mm)|15 mm MG151/15]]
+
! colspan="5" | [[MG 151 (15 mm)|15 mm MG 151]]
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="7" | ''Loader's cupola mount''
+
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="4" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity (Belt capacity)
+
| Cupola turret || 500 (500) || 700 || -3°/+20° || -35°/+160°
−
! rowspan="1" | Fire rate <br> (shots/minute)
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Vertical <br> guidance
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 
−
|-
 
−
| colspan="4" | 500 (500) || 700 || -3°/+20° || -35°/+160°
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
 
== Usage in battles ==
 
== Usage in battles ==
−
''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''
+
<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
 +
 
 +
The AMX-50 Foch does well in concealment, and so the first thing to do upon spawning onto the battlefield is to find a place where the {{PAGENAME}} can hide while having a good arc of fire against incoming enemies. Do this to minimise the weak points of the vehicle, such as the weak side armour and the long reload time. If the enemy sees only the front armour, it should be fine given the thick, sloped armour available, but do take note on the type of enemy encountered.
 +
 
 +
If a Leopard I tank or anything else with HEAT shells notice the {{PAGENAME}}'s position, immediately move as these vehicles can very easily penetrate the {{PAGENAME}}'s frontal armour. However, encountering tanks with only standard AP shells like a Tiger II should suffice as they would have a harder time penetrating through the front of the {{PAGENAME}}.
 +
 
 +
Being patient is key to the success of the {{PAGENAME}}. Going out and hunting enemies, especially in close-range fights, is not beneficial to a long-term survival strategy in the {{PAGENAME}}, especially with the weak side armour.
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
−
<!--''Summarize and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".''-->
+
<!-- ''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".'' -->
  
 
'''Pros:'''
 
'''Pros:'''
  
−
* Very powerful 120 mm gun; can even penetrate the Maus at some points
+
* Great upper glacis armour against kinetic shells
−
* Reasonably fast
+
* Good forward and reverse speed, plus neutral steering
−
* Has an MG-151 on the top in its own turret
+
* 120 mm gun has high penetration and immense spalling
−
* Great armour on the front slope plate (upper glacis)
 
−
* Immense spalling from the AP shells; head-on one-shots are very likely
 
−
* Good mobility
 
 
* Rangefinder logs range very quickly
 
* Rangefinder logs range very quickly
 +
* Has a 15 mm MG 151 on the top in its own turret
  
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
  
−
* No turret; vulnerable to getting flanked
+
* Very thin side armour, vulnerable to flanking
−
* Longer reload than the AMX-50 Surbaisse
+
* Rangefinder and gun mantlet are weak spots, allowing APHE shells to destroy the Foch with a well-placed shot
 +
* Long reload time
 
* Limited ammo choices
 
* Limited ammo choices
−
* The Main gun has a very narrow firing arc
+
* AP might have a hard time knocking out some opponents from the side
−
* AP shells will have a hard time destroying some opponents from the side
+
* MG 151 jams quickly, turns slowly and has a very limited firing arc and elevation
−
* Very thin side armour
 
−
* Rangefinder and gun mantlet are weak spots - allowing APHE to destroy the Foch you with a well-placed shot
 
−
* MG-151 jams quickly, turns slowly and has a very limited firing arc and elevation
 
−
* Very low levels of zoom
 
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
−
<!--''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ground vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too big, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/ History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== Encyclopedia Info ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''-->
+
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
  
−
During the early 1950s, DEFA worked to produce the third version of the AMX 50 heavy tank which featured a 120 mm self-propelled gun, however, during upgrades weight became a factor severely hampering the speed of the vehicle. 1955 saw a team of seventy German engineers brought in to help solve the problem maintaining the 120 mm cannon plus have the necessary armour and maintain a 65 kph speed. Due to the delays and problems encountered during construction, only five prototypes were constructed and only one was finished which became known as the Canon Automoteur AMX 50 Foch, named after the supreme allied commander during World War I, Marshal Ferdinand Foch, general and military theorist. The main purpose of the AMX 50 "120 mm" was to provide long-range support for the medium AMX 50 "100 mm" tanks. An ambitious task of designing a version with a 155 mm cannon was started, however, this never made it past the drawing stage.
+
During the early 1950s, DEFA worked to produce the third version of the AMX-50 heavy tank which featured a 120 mm self-propelled gun, however, during upgrades weight became a factor severely hampering the speed of the vehicle. 1955 saw a team of seventy German engineers brought in to help solve the problem maintaining the 120 mm cannon plus have the necessary armour and maintain a 65 km/h speed. Due to the delays and problems encountered during construction, only five prototypes were constructed and only one was finished which became known as the Canon Automoteur AMX-50 Foch, named after the supreme allied commander during World War I, Marshal Ferdinand Foch, general and military theorist. The main purpose of the AMX-50 "120 mm" was to provide long-range support for the medium AMX-50 "100 mm" tanks. An ambitious task of designing a version with a 155 mm cannon was started, however, this never made it past the drawing stage.
  
 
== Media ==
 
== Media ==
−
<!--''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''-->
+
<!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' -->
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== See also ==
 
== See also ==
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== External links ==
 
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* [https://warthunder.com/en/news/5292-vehicle-amx-50-foch-racing-tortoise-en [Vehicles<nowiki>]</nowiki> AMX-50 Foch: Racing Tortoise]
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* [[wt:en/news/5292-vehicle-amx-50-foch-racing-tortoise-en|[Vehicle] AMX-50 Foch: Racing Tortoise]]
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* [[Wikipedia:AMX-50#AMX_50_%22120_mm%22|[Wikipedia<nowiki>]</nowiki> AMX 50 "120 mm"]]
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* [[Wikipedia:AMX-50#AMX_50_%22120_mm%22|[Wikipedia] AMX 50 "120 mm"]]
  
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{{TankManufacturer AMX}}
 
{{France tank destroyers}}
 
{{France tank destroyers}}

Latest revision as of 05:01, 13 November 2024

Introducing Wiki 3.0
This page is about the French tank destroyer AMX-50 Foch. For other versions, see AMX-50 (Family).
AMX-50 Foch
fr_amx_50_foch.png
GarageImage AMX-50 Foch.jpg
AMX-50 Foch
France flag.png France
V Rank
Battle rating:
AB RB SB
7.3 7.3 7.3
Class:
Research:105 000 Specs-Card-Exp.png
Purchase:300 000 Specs-Card-Lion.png

Description

The AMX-50 Heavy Tank was quite powerful, but DEFA wanted to procure a heavier 120mm self-propelled gun, however, problems soon started to appear. The weight was the main factor that hampered the development of the vehicle since the speed was deemed too low. In the end, the Canon Automoteur AMX-50 Foch was developed, named after Marshal Ferdinand Foch. Doctrinally, the AMX-50 Foch was supposed to provide long-range support to the regular AMX-50 tanks, there were plans to upgrade the vehicle with a 155mm cannon but the project was never seriously pursued.

It was introduced in Update 1.75 "La Résistance" along with the initial French ground tree. The Canon automoteur AMX-50 Foch  is quite a sturdy tank destroyer, it has enough armour to withstand regular APHE and AP projectiles, except for APCR and HEAT-FS, which start to be more common around its BR. It is not the fastest or most agile tank destroyer in the game, but for its size, is quite agile, but since it uses a fixed gun and not a turret, it is more susceptible to flanking manoeuvres by lighter vehicles armed with autocannons or recoilless rifles. Overall, the tank features a powerful gun capable of dealing with anything at its BR, and has enough armour to deal with late WWII vehicles, although it suffers against early Cold War designs such as the T-54 and the M48. 

General info

Survivability and armour

Armourfront / side / back
Hull180 / 40 / 40
Turret180 / 40 / 40
Crew4 people
Visibility81 %

The AMX-50 Foch is able to withstand every single round it faces in combat except HEATFS and 105 mm APCR sub-calibre shots frontally. It is often confused with the CA Lorraine and vice-versa due to its similarities in profile, size and frontal plate. For the same reason, people may think you are fragile yet you are one of the toughest armour to crack at the battle rating. Only the front is the strong section of the tank. Roof, rear and sides are the most vulnerable places of the tank, even for 20 mm autocannons.

Regarding crew compartment, despite being not too tight but not huge either, it has a high survivability specially for the number of crew members and the huge breech of the 120 mm cannon (they will most likely destroy your breech with a side shot but it will stop most of the spalling). The ammunition is located at the rear of the crew compartment (in front of engine deck) an at the hull sides. This makes the Foch one of the easiest tanks to ammo rack at the battle rating. The tank has a crew amount of 5 crewmen: driver, gunner, commander and two loaders, one of them is the machine gunner

Armour Front (Slope angle) Sides Rear Roof
Hull 180mm (55°) Front glacis
100 mm (60°) Lower glacis
180-300 (0-72°) + 180 mm Gun mantlet 		40 mm (15°) Top
40 mm Bottom 		40 mm Top
40 mm (40°) Bottom 		30 mm Fighting compartment
20 mm Engine deck
90 mm Gun mantlet
Cupola 200 mm 30 mm 30 mm 30 mm

Notes:

  • Suspension wheels and tracks are both 20 mm thick.
  • Road wheels are interleaved and provide cumulative protection for the lower side hull.

Mobility

Speedforward / back
AB56 / 21 km/h
RB and SB52 / 20 km/h
Number of gears5 forward
2 back
Weight59.5 t
Engine power
AB1 908 hp
RB and SB1 000 hp
Power-to-weight ratio
AB32.1 hp/t
RB and SB16.8 hp/t
Game Mode Max Speed (km/h) Weight (tons) Engine power (horsepower) Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
Forward Reverse Stock Upgraded Stock Upgraded
Arcade 56 21 59.5 1,420 1,908 23.87 32.07
Realistic 52 20 884 1,000 14.86 16.81

The AMX-50 Foch is not as fast as compared with other turretless tank destroyers as the JPz 4-5 but not as slow as the Jagdtiger. Despite being huge, it is absurdly fast and agile for a tank its size due to being mounted on an AMX-50 chassis but with stronger armour than the Jagdtiger. As the rest of the French tanks, it has excellent neutral steering but the reverse speed is horrible. It is compensated with a tremendous horsepower and armour as well as a potent main gun. It should not be played as fast as the JPz 4-5 as well as risky but it should not be fully played as bastion defence.

Modifications and economy

Repair costBasic → Reference
AB5 301 → 6 689 Sl icon.png
RB5 345 → 6 745 Sl icon.png
SB8 850 → 11 168 Sl icon.png
Total cost of modifications87 300 Rp icon.png
146 200 Sl icon.png
Talisman cost2 100 Ge icon.png
Crew training86 000 Sl icon.png
Experts300 000 Sl icon.png
Aces1 200 Ge icon.png
Research Aces720 000 Rp icon.png
Reward for battleAB / RB / SB
150 / 210 / 250 % Sl icon.png
196 / 196 / 196 % Rp icon.png
Modifications
Mobility Protection Firepower
Mods new tank traks.png
Tracks
Research:
6 100 Rp icon.png
Cost:
9 800 Sl icon.png
200 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank suspension.png
Suspension
Research:
5 100 Rp icon.png
Cost:
8 200 Sl icon.png
170 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank break.png
Brake System
Research:
5 100 Rp icon.png
Cost:
8 200 Sl icon.png
170 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank filter.png
Filters
Research:
7 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
12 000 Sl icon.png
250 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank transmission.png
Transmission
Research:
9 900 Rp icon.png
Cost:
16 000 Sl icon.png
330 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank engine.png
Engine
Research:
9 900 Rp icon.png
Cost:
16 000 Sl icon.png
330 Ge icon.png
Mods tank tool kit.png
Improved Parts
Research:
4 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
9 800 Sl icon.png
200 Ge icon.png
Mods extinguisher.png
Improved FPE
Research:
3 300 Rp icon.png
Cost:
8 200 Sl icon.png
170 Ge icon.png
Mods tank reinforcement fr.png
Crew Replenishment
Research:
7 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
12 000 Sl icon.png
250 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank horizontal aiming.png
Horizontal Drive
Research:
6 100 Rp icon.png
Cost:
9 800 Sl icon.png
200 Ge icon.png
Mods tank cannon.png
Adjustment of Fire
Research:
5 100 Rp icon.png
Cost:
8 200 Sl icon.png
170 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank vertical aiming.png
Elevation Mechanism
Research:
7 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
12 000 Sl icon.png
250 Ge icon.png
Mods tank rangefinder.png
Rangefinder
Research:
9 900 Rp icon.png
Cost:
16 000 Sl icon.png
330 Ge icon.png

Armaments

Main armament

120 mm SA46 cannon
Ammunition48 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
19.4 → 14.9 s
Vertical guidance-6° / 17°
Horizontal guidance-9° / 9°
Main article: SA46 (120 mm)

The AMX-50 Foch can be considered as a hybrid between the CA Lorraine and the AMX-50 Surbaisse: it shares the height of the Lorraine but mobility and the firepower of the AMX-50 Surbaisse. The gun has a use and ballistic similar to the Surbaisse (both share the same ammunition).

120 mm SA46 Turret rotation speed (°/s) Reloading rate (seconds)
Mode Capacity Vertical Horizontal Stabilizer Stock Upgraded Full Expert Aced Stock Full Expert Aced
Arcade 48 -6°/+17° ±9° N/A 5.3 7.3 8.9 9.8 10.5 19.37 17.14 15.79 14.90
Realistic 3.6 4.2 5.1 5.6 6.0

Ammunition

APBC: This is the first and only anti-tank ammunition the AMX-50 Foch. Despite having a "low" penetration (compared to other rounds seen at the battle rating) it should not be underestimated. It has the penetration to deal with all heavy tanks frontally (with exception of Maus and E-100) as well as enough spalling to destroy lightly armoured vehicles. This round is a 90% confirmed knock-out with a single shot due to its tremendous mass.

Penetration statistics
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
10 m 100 m 500 m 1,000 m 1,500 m 2,000 m
120 mm Obus de rupture APBC 301 298 286 272 258 245
120 mm Obus explosif HE 39 39 39 39 39 39
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Velocity
(m/s) 		Projectile
mass (kg) 		Fuse delay
(m) 		Fuse sensitivity
(mm) 		Explosive mass
(TNT equivalent) (kg) 		Ricochet
0% 50% 100%
120 mm Obus de rupture APBC 1,067 23.1 - - - 47° 60° 65°
120 mm Obus explosif HE 762 22.84 0 0.1 4.65 79° 80° 81°

Ammo racks

Ammo racks of the AMX-50 Foch
Full
ammo 		1st
rack empty 		2nd
rack empty 		3rd
rack empty 		4th
rack empty 		5th
rack empty 		Visual
discrepancy
48 43 (+5) 31 (+17) 19 (+29) 5 (+43) 1 (+47) Yes

Note:

  • Right side empty: 19 (+29) shells.

Machine guns

15 mm MG151/15 machine gun
Ammunition500 rounds
Belt capacity500 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
13.0 → 10.0 s
Fire rate700 shots/min
Vertical guidance-12° / 12°
Horizontal guidance-35° / 160°
Main article: MG 151 (15 mm)

The MG151 can be considered as one of the most reliable HMG (Heavy Machine Gun) in game due to multiple factors: ammunition capacity, muzzle velocity and penetration, stopping power and rate of fire. It is a Jack-of-all-trades when it comes to ground battles, it has a faster muzzle velocity than 20 mm cannons but has more destructive power than the 14.5 mm (Russian HMG calibre) machine gun but it overheats really fast. The MG151 is almost exclusive to this specific tank and is able of doing multiple things:

  • Immediate ground defence: this machine gun is able to damage and destroyed external components of all tanks (tracks, gun barrels, etc), destroy lightly armoured vehicles (with armour thinner than 45 mm), obstruction removal (fences, walls, etc) and spotting.
  • Immediate air defence: due to being roof mounted inside a cupola with a 360° rotation and a 20° elevation, it is able to critically damage low-flying aircraft. This belt has AP-I round which can cause fatal damage on all low flying aircraft (it often lights them on fire or damages their engine).
15 mm MG 151
Mount Capacity (Belt) Fire rate Vertical Horizontal
Cupola turret 500 (500) 700 -3°/+20° -35°/+160°

Usage in battles

The AMX-50 Foch does well in concealment, and so the first thing to do upon spawning onto the battlefield is to find a place where the AMX-50 Foch can hide while having a good arc of fire against incoming enemies. Do this to minimise the weak points of the vehicle, such as the weak side armour and the long reload time. If the enemy sees only the front armour, it should be fine given the thick, sloped armour available, but do take note on the type of enemy encountered.

If a Leopard I tank or anything else with HEAT shells notice the AMX-50 Foch's position, immediately move as these vehicles can very easily penetrate the AMX-50 Foch's frontal armour. However, encountering tanks with only standard AP shells like a Tiger II should suffice as they would have a harder time penetrating through the front of the AMX-50 Foch.

Being patient is key to the success of the AMX-50 Foch. Going out and hunting enemies, especially in close-range fights, is not beneficial to a long-term survival strategy in the AMX-50 Foch, especially with the weak side armour.

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Great upper glacis armour against kinetic shells
  • Good forward and reverse speed, plus neutral steering
  • 120 mm gun has high penetration and immense spalling
  • Rangefinder logs range very quickly
  • Has a 15 mm MG 151 on the top in its own turret

Cons:

  • Very thin side armour, vulnerable to flanking
  • Rangefinder and gun mantlet are weak spots, allowing APHE shells to destroy the Foch with a well-placed shot
  • Long reload time
  • Limited ammo choices
  • AP might have a hard time knocking out some opponents from the side
  • MG 151 jams quickly, turns slowly and has a very limited firing arc and elevation

History

During the early 1950s, DEFA worked to produce the third version of the AMX-50 heavy tank which featured a 120 mm self-propelled gun, however, during upgrades weight became a factor severely hampering the speed of the vehicle. 1955 saw a team of seventy German engineers brought in to help solve the problem maintaining the 120 mm cannon plus have the necessary armour and maintain a 65 km/h speed. Due to the delays and problems encountered during construction, only five prototypes were constructed and only one was finished which became known as the Canon Automoteur AMX-50 Foch, named after the supreme allied commander during World War I, Marshal Ferdinand Foch, general and military theorist. The main purpose of the AMX-50 "120 mm" was to provide long-range support for the medium AMX-50 "100 mm" tanks. An ambitious task of designing a version with a 155 mm cannon was started, however, this never made it past the drawing stage.

Media

Skins
Videos
The Shooting Range #99 - Metal Beasts section at 00:38 discusses the AMX-50 Foch.
Top 7 most armoured vehicles discusses the AMX-50 Foch at 3:12 - War Thunder Official Channel
Best tank destroyers discusses the AMX-50 Foch at 6:08 - War Thunder Official Channel

See also

External links


Ateliers de construction d'Issy-les-Moulineaux (AMX)
Light tanks 
AMX-13  AMX-13-M24 · AMX-13 (FL11) · AMX-13 · AMX-13 (SS.11) · AMX-13-90 · AMX-13 (HOT)
Armoured cars  AMX-10RC
Medium tanks  AMX M4 · AMX-50 (TOA100)
MBTs 
AMX-30  AMX-30 · AMX-30 ACRA · AMX-30 (1972) · AMX-30B2 · AMX-30B2 BRENUS · AMX-30 Super
AMX-32/40  AMX-32 (105) · AMX-32 · AMX-40
Heavy tanks  AMX-50 Surbaissé · AMX-50 Surblindé
Tank destroyers  ELC bis · AMX-50 Foch
SPAAGs  AMX-13 DCA 40 · AMX-30 S DCA
Export  AMX-13

France tank destroyers
Lorraine 40t derivatives  CA Lorraine · Lorraine 155 Mle.50
ATGM  MEPHISTO · AMX-10M
Other  AMR.35 ZT3 · Lorraine 37L · SAu 40 · ARL-44 · ELC bis · AMX-50 Foch · AuF1
USA  ▄M10 GMC · ▄M36B2

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