Difference between revisions of "T-34-85 Gai"

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{{Specs-Card|code=cn_type_58}}
 
 
{{About
 
{{About
 
| about = Chinese medium tank '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
 
| about = Chinese medium tank '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
 
| usage = other versions
 
| usage = other versions
 
| link =  T-34 (Family)
 
| link =  T-34 (Family)
 +
}}
 +
{{Specs-Card
 +
|code=cn_type_58
 +
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
 
}}
 
}}
  
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
 
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
 
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
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<!-- [[File:GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
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The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (Chinese: T or 特[Te]-34-85改) was what would become the first domestic tank built by Mainland China in the 1950s. Due to the demand for new tanks to fulfill the needs of new armour divisions, Chinese engineers reverse-engineered or acquired the blueprints for the T-34/85 Mod. 1944 in the late 1950s. This version represents a planned modification equipping a HMG on the commander's cupola and minor appearance changes for domestic production. Due to the introduction of complete T-54A blueprints that set the foundations for the Type 59, the production plan for the T-34-85 was ditched and the remaining fleet was left in reserve until the 1990s.
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{{break}} -->
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The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Chinese medium tank {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]].
+
Introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]] as the successor of the Soviet-given T-34-85, the tank is generally similar to the earlier [[T-34-85 (S-53) (China)|T-34-85 (S-53)]], which itself is identical to the Soviet [[T-34-85]]; the Gai's gameplay should be very familiar to experienced players. It differentiates itself with a number of cosmetic differences, and more importantly, a roof-mounted 12.7 mm DShK heavy machine gun. For the first time, T-34 drivers can enjoy the utility offered by a heavy machine gun similar to the ubiquitous M2 Browning featured on American tanks.
  
 
== General info ==
 
== General info ==
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
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<!--''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat? If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.''-->
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{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}
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<!-- ''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat? If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.'' -->
 +
 
 +
'''Armour type:'''
 +
 
 +
*Rolled homogeneous armour (Hull, Turret roof)
 +
*Cast homogeneous armour (Turret, Cupola, Driver's hatch, Machine gun port)
 +
 
 +
{| class="wikitable"
 +
|-
 +
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
 +
|-
 +
| Hull || 45 mm (60°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 45 mm (60°) ''Lower glacis'' <br> 75 mm (60°) ''Driver's hatch'' <br> 65 mm (30°) ''Machine gun port'' || 45 mm (39-40°) ''Top'' <br> 45 mm ''Bottom'' || 45 mm (47-49°) ''Top'' <br> 45 mm (46°) ''Bottom'' || 20 mm
 +
|-
 +
| Turret || 90 mm (1-69°) ''Turret front'' <br> 90 + 40 mm (8-61°) ''Gun mantlet'' || 75 mm (19-22°) ''Front 2/3rd'' <br> 52 mm (13-19°) ''Rear 1/3rd'' || 52 mm (9°) || 20 mm
 +
|-
 +
! Armour !! Sides !! Roof
 +
|-
 +
| Cupola || 90 mm || 20 mm
 +
|}
 +
'''Notes:'''
 +
 
 +
* The gun mantlet has 90 mm in front with additional small and thin 40 mm plates on the sides of the gun.
 +
* Suspensions wheels are 20 mm thick and tracks are 18 mm thick
  
−
The tank it self has very poor survivability due to the fact that all 5 crews are stack on top of each other. However, a most inexperienced player that faces this tank will have a hard time to kill it because most of the time they shoot the lower hull part of the driver hatch.
+
The armour layout of the T-34-85 Gai is virtually identical to the [[T-34-85]]. The hull armour, while well angled, is very thin for its rank and can be penetrated by nearly any tank cannon. Creative use of angling can still lead to the occasional bounce. The 90 mm thick turret is also thin for its rank, but the good sloping on the sides can also lead to bounces with some luck.
 +
 
 +
The T-34-85 has very poor survivability due to the fact that all 5 crew members are packed close to each other. A hull penetration will likely knock out all of them. However, inexperienced players that face this tank will often shoot the lower hull part of the driver hatch, which is infamous for being surprisingly resilient.
  
 
=== Mobility ===
 
=== Mobility ===
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<!--''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forward and backwards.''-->
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{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}
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The tank itself has pretty nice mobility up to 31 kph and 6 kph backward.
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<!-- ''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.'' -->
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 +
{{tankMobility|abMinHp=775|rbMinHp=442}}
 +
 
 +
The {{PAGENAME}} has excellent mobility for a medium tank, as expected of a T-34. It can reach high speeds both on and off road thanks to its wide tracks. The reverse speed is not exactly great, but it is significantly better than those of comparable Shermans, Panthers, and early T-34s (76 mm, 57 mm variants).
 +
 
 +
=== Modifications and economy ===
 +
{{Specs-Economy}}
  
 
== Armaments ==
 
== Armaments ==
 +
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
 
=== Main armament ===
 
=== Main armament ===
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<!--''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Advise about how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.''-->
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{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}
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This is where the T-34 85 Gai excels at. Like any other 85 mm cannon the T-34 has. It has a really big TNT equivalent and a pretty nice penetration.
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<!-- ''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.'' -->
 +
{{main|Type 56 (85 mm)}}
  
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=== Additional armament ===
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This is where the T-34-85 Gai excels. Like other 85 mm-armed T-34s, its APHE rounds have large amounts of explosive filler and sufficient penetration values to deal with most of the common enemies you will face. Do keep in mind that you have a few different types of shells to choose from. The stock BR-365K APHE rounds have good penetration and a decent quantity of explosive filler. The unlockable BR-365A APHEBC rounds may appear to be a downgrade from the BR-365K at first, but they are deceptively powerful; excellent normalization modifiers make them far more effective against angled armour and the 164 grams of explosive filler (twice as much as the BR-365K) will guarantee the destruction of almost any target upon penetration. The BR-365P APCR rounds have the highest velocity and best flat penetration, but they are comparatively anemic in terms of post-penetration damage and are dreadful against angled armour. Lastly, the O-365 HE shell is only useful against very thinly armoured or open-top targets and should generally be avoided, as the APHE/APHEBC rounds and heavy machine gun are generally sufficient for this task.
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''Some tanks are armed with several guns in one or more turrets. Evaluate the additional weaponry and give advice on its use. Describe the ammunition available for additional weaponry. Give advice on about how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage. If there is no additional weaponry remove this subsection.''
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 +
In general it is a good idea to carry mainly BR-365A shells, as the bit of extra flat penetration on the BR-365K does not really help in penetrating more targets, while the BR-365A's slope modifiers and extra explosive filler are very useful, especially when flanking. It may be a good idea to bring a few APCR shells for emergencies, but its power is limited - it cannot penetrate the turret of a [[Tiger II (H)]], for example.
 +
 
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 +
|-
 +
! colspan="5" | [[Type 56 (85 mm)|85 mm Type 56]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
 +
|-
 +
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
 +
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
 +
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
 +
|-
 +
! ''Arcade''
 +
| rowspan="2" | 55 || rowspan="2" | -5°/+25° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | - || 23.8 || 32.9 || 40.0 || 44.2 || 47.1 || rowspan="2" | 9.62 || rowspan="2" | 8.51 || rowspan="2" | 7.84 || rowspan="2" | 7.40
 +
|-
 +
! ''Realistic''
 +
| 14.9 || 17.5 || 21.3 || 23.5 || 25.0
 +
|-
 +
|}
 +
 
 +
==== Ammunition ====
 +
{{:Type 56 (85 mm)/Ammunition|Type 56 AP, Type 56 APBC, Type 56 APCR, Type 56 HE}}
 +
 
 +
==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
 +
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]
 +
<!-- '''Last updated: 2.3.0.130''' -->
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 +
|-
 +
! Full<br>ammo
 +
! 1st<br>rack empty
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! 2nd<br>rack empty
 +
! 3rd<br>rack empty
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! 4th<br>rack empty
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! 5th<br>rack empty
 +
! Visual<br>discrepancy
 +
|-
 +
| '''55''' || 52&nbsp;''(+3)'' || 40&nbsp;''(+15)'' || 38&nbsp;''(+17)'' || 36&nbsp;''(+19)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+54)'' || No
 +
|-
 +
|}
 +
'''Note:'''
 +
 
 +
* To go into battle with the turret and the flanks empty of ammo, pack 36&nbsp;''(+19)'' shells.
 +
* Racks disappear after you've fired all shells in the rack.
 +
 
 +
<!--==== [[Optics]] ====
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{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
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! colspan="3" | {{PAGENAME}} Optics
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|-
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!
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! Default magnification
 +
! Maximum magnification
 +
|-
 +
! Main Gun optics
 +
| X3.8 || X4.0
 +
|-
 +
! Comparable optics
 +
| colspan="2" | ???
 +
|-
 +
|}
 +
-->
  
 
=== Machine guns ===
 
=== Machine guns ===
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''Offensive and anti-aircraft machine guns not only allow you to fight some aircraft but also are effective against lightly armoured vehicles. Evaluate machine guns and give recommendations on its use.''
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{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}
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{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|3}}
 +
<!-- ''Offensive and anti-aircraft machine guns not only allow you to fight some aircraft but also are effective against lightly armoured vehicles. Evaluate machine guns and give recommendations on its use.'' -->
 +
{{main|Type 54 (12.7 mm)|Type 55 (7.62 mm)}}
 +
 
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
 +
|-
 +
! colspan="5" | [[Type 54 (12.7 mm)|12.7 mm Type 54]]
 +
|-
 +
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
 +
|-
 +
| Pintle || 500 (50) || 600 || -4°/+82° || ±180°
 +
|-
 +
|}
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
 +
|-
 +
! colspan="5" | [[Type 55 (7.62 mm)|7.62 mm Type 55]]
 +
|-
 +
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
 +
|-
 +
| Coaxial || 1,890 (63) || 600 || - || -
 +
|-
 +
|}
  
 
== Usage in battles ==
 
== Usage in battles ==
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''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''
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<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
 +
 
 +
While the T-34-85 Gai is a fairly well-rounded tank, its poor armour and high speed mean that one should play it more like a light tank than a medium. The gun is very lethal but the penetration is not particularly good, so it is better to flank and go for side shots, which can instantly knock out all but the largest and most spacious opponents. During frontal engagements, [[Tiger E|Tiger I]]s should be shot in the flat portions of the hull (avoiding the driver's port), [[Panzer V Panther (Family)|Panthers]] should be shot in the turret (in the less curved portion of the mantlet) or possibly in the lower glacis, and [[M4 Sherman (Family)|non-Jumbo Shermans]] can generally be shot anywhere. The [[Tiger II (P)]] is only vulnerable in a small portion of the turret cheeks and the [[Tiger II (H)]] is essentially frontally immune, so for these kinds of targets, circle around to get a good shot at the hull sides and let the slope modifiers take care of the rest. Watch out for American tanks like the [[M4A3 (76) W]] and [[T25]], as they have vertical stabilizers and can often shoot first if they are aware of you.
 +
 
 +
In AB, you should play this tank like any other T-34. Push because you have a pretty well-rounded tank and will generally be able to adapt to whatever situation that develops. The AB meta generally favours more heavily armed and armoured tanks due to the presence of markers, making flanking and ambushes more difficult, so play carefully and take advantage of your high mobility.
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 +
In RB, play this tank offensively yet carefully. Use your speed and keep up with your teammates, or alternatively play it like a light tank and go on long flanks. In RB, one will often encounter enemy flankers like the infamous [[M18 GMC|M18 Hellcat]] or [[R3 T20 FA-HS]]; while the main gun is adequate for dispatching these soft targets, the heavy machine gun can also rip through them in a pinch, particularly from the sides. The machine gun can be especially helpful if one's tank is otherwise disabled due to a jammed turret ring, destroyed gun breech, etc. Diving aircraft expecting to strafe an innocuous T-34 can also be given a nasty surprise, though the DShK's small belt capacity makes this more difficult.
 +
 
 +
In SB, play this tank very cautiously because the optics aren't that good and most of the time you will face tanks from pretty far distances. Panthers generally have better optics than you so try to avoid encounters with Panthers or Tigers.
 +
 
 +
'''Enemies worth noting:'''
 +
 
 +
[[Panther A]]/[[Panther D|D]], [[Tiger II (P)|Tiger II P]]:
 +
 
 +
The Panthers are one of the most common tanks around BR 5.7, and they pose a great threat with their deadly long 75 mm cannon, thick frontal armour and adequate speed. You want to avoid engaging them at long range as the T-34 has only x3.5 scope magnification, making long range shooting super hard. Engage the Panthers within 500 m and avoid shooting their frontal hull. Their biggest weak spot is the gun mantlet, which is only 100 mm thick and has a flat part in the middle. That is where you want to aim at, the T-34's APHE has sufficient damage to instantly destroy the Panther even from its turret. The second weak spot is of course the sides, guaranteeing an instant kill. Generally APHE is enough to deal with the Panthers, and no APCR is needed.
 +
 
 +
For the Tiger II P, aim at the vertical area of the frontal turret which is also 100 mm. The best tactic is still to flank it however.
 +
 
 +
[[Tiger H1]]/[[Tiger E|E]]:
 +
 
 +
The Tiger's weak spots are the opposite with the Panthers. Their hull are unsloped and rather thin, while the gun mantlet is weirdly shaped and can absorb quite some shells. The best engaging range remains the same, within 500 m. If the Tiger is angling, aim at the hull side below the side skirt, which is only 60 mm. If it is not angling, aim between the driver's vision port and the MG for an instant kill. Avoid shooting at these two parts as they tend to bounce/absorb shells. For the Tiger E, don't shoot at the lower glacis as there will be add-on tracks installed there, making it harder to penetrate. Avoid shooting at the turret or turret ring as your round will most likely be absorbed by overlapping armour plates
 +
 
 +
[[Ho-Ri Production|Ho-Ri]]:
 +
 
 +
In a frontal engagement, APCR is required as the APHE shells don't have enough penetration. With APCR loaded, aim at the further sides of the fighting compartment, away from the gun, because the further from the gun, the thinner the armour gets, with the thinnest part being around 160 mm unsloped. Penetrating there will knock out its loader, gunner or commander, or detonate the ammo. Of course, the best way is still side-shooting with APHE.
 +
 
 +
[[Panzer IV/70(V)]], [[Jagdpanzer 38(t)]]:
 +
 
 +
These small tank destroyers with their well angled frontal armour can be quite a problem from a distance. With APHE, you can disable their transmission by shooting at their lower glacis. Now if you can, flank them. The 85 mm APHE does a great job at penetrating sloped, thin armour, so you don't have to get to their absolute sides. For the Pz IV/70, you can also aim at the downward part of the gun mantlet since the shell might ricochet downwards into the hull, knocking out every crew member. The Jagdpanzer 38(t) doesn't have this problem, so side-shooting is required to destroy it effectively.
 +
 
 +
[[M4A3E2]] Jumbo:
 +
 
 +
This is another common enemy. It is recommended to use the BR-365A, the one with less pen but more explosive filler. The reason is that it is better at penetrating sloped armour, which the Jumbo has. With that shell you can easily destroy a M4A3E2 who's not angling. If it is, aim at the hull side just above the tracks, or load APCR and shoot straight at its gun mantlet. Against a 75 mm M4A3E2 you can relax a bit as it will struggle to penetrate your armour, but your cupola is a rather large weak spot and a shot through there can knock out the T-34. Be more careful with the M4A3E2 76 W, as they can easily pierce through your armour.
 +
 
 +
[[Tiger II (H)]]: Your shells cannot penetrate the turret face. Try to flank it and get a shot at the turret side, as your shells normalize very well, and due to the BR365A's large amount of explosive filler, a penetrating hit on the turret will in most cases blow up the ammunition stowed in either the hull or the turret rear.
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
−
<!--''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".''-->
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<!-- ''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".'' -->
  
 
'''Pros:'''
 
'''Pros:'''
  
 
* Top mounted heavy machine gun is useful against soft targets and perhaps incoming aircraft
 
* Top mounted heavy machine gun is useful against soft targets and perhaps incoming aircraft
−
* Good gun, acceptable penetration when used for flanking and high one-shot kill potential
+
* Excellent gun with adequate penetration, destructive damage and good reload rate
−
* Has access to the BR-365P APCR round
+
* Great mobility and top speed allow for repositioning easily
−
* Good mobility
+
* 5-man crew increases survivability
−
* 5 person crew
+
* Access to BR-365P APCR to effectively penetrate tough tanks up close (Tigers & Panthers)
 +
* Has two types of AP for players to choose: BR-365K with higher pen but less TNT, and BR-365A with less pen but plenty of TNT
 +
* Similar playstyle with the previous T-34s which is rather beginner-friendly
 +
* Fast turret traverse to easily deal with targets from multiple directions
 +
* Sloped hull and round frontal turret might bounce small calibre shells
  
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
  
−
* Armor is inadequate at its rank
+
* Armour is inadequate at its rank, providing very limited protection against common guns (American 76 mm, British 17 pdr, German 75 mm & 88 mm, etc)
−
* May have issues penetrating some targets frontally
+
* May have issues penetrating hard targets frontally (Tiger II, Ferdinand, Ho-Ri, Panzer IV/70(V))
−
* Heavy machine gun needs to reload frequently
 
 
* Fairly tall, top machine gun makes the tank even more noticeable
 
* Fairly tall, top machine gun makes the tank even more noticeable
 +
* Awkward to place bushes on upper front hull due to the obstruction of MG port and driver's optics
 +
* Heavy machine gun has extremely limited ammunition count
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
−
<!--''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''-->
+
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
−
 
 
 
The Soviet Union sold numerous [[T-34-85]] tanks along with other vehicles to the People's Republic of China in the early 1950s since the new nation had few and often obsolete tanks in its inventory after the conclusion of the Chinese Civil War. The T-34s saw limited deployments with the People's Liberation Army during the Korean War. The history of the tank afterwards has been the subject of debate; according to some sources the PRC attempted and possibly succeeded at creating a local copy of the T-34 under a "Type 58" designation, and according to others this was never a goal, no such tanks ever existed, and only efforts to maintain and repair the T-34s were carried out. Regardless the T-34s were soon superseded by the far superior [[Type 59]], a licensed copy of the Soviet T-54A. However, stocks of T-34s remained in the PLA inventory for a long period of time before domestic tanks were available in sufficient quantity.
 
The Soviet Union sold numerous [[T-34-85]] tanks along with other vehicles to the People's Republic of China in the early 1950s since the new nation had few and often obsolete tanks in its inventory after the conclusion of the Chinese Civil War. The T-34s saw limited deployments with the People's Liberation Army during the Korean War. The history of the tank afterwards has been the subject of debate; according to some sources the PRC attempted and possibly succeeded at creating a local copy of the T-34 under a "Type 58" designation, and according to others this was never a goal, no such tanks ever existed, and only efforts to maintain and repair the T-34s were carried out. Regardless the T-34s were soon superseded by the far superior [[Type 59]], a licensed copy of the Soviet T-54A. However, stocks of T-34s remained in the PLA inventory for a long period of time before domestic tanks were available in sufficient quantity.
  
−
T-34s in Chinese service were often upgraded to a standard referred to by some as the "Type 58". The exact details and universality of these upgrades are also nebulous, but known characteristics include a new loader's cupola capable of mounting a heavy machine gun, hardpoints on the right turret cheek for stowing away said machine gun, and a modified hinge for the rear transmission cover. Other upgrades may have been carried out as well.  
+
T-34s in Chinese service were often upgraded to a standard referred to by some as the "Type 58". The exact details and universality of these upgrades are also nebulous, but known characteristics include a new loader's cupola capable of mounting a heavy machine gun, hardpoints on the right turret cheek for stowing away said machine gun, and a modified hinge for the rear transmission cover. Other upgrades may have been carried out as well.
  
 
The vehicle represented in War Thunder also features a splashboard welded onto the upper glacis. The "Gai" in its designation (改) means "modified" in Chinese.
 
The vehicle represented in War Thunder also features a splashboard welded onto the upper glacis. The "Gai" in its designation (改) means "modified" in Chinese.
  
 
== Media ==
 
== Media ==
−
''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''
+
<!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' -->
 +
 
 +
;Skins
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* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=cn_type_58 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
 +
 
 +
;Videos
 +
{{Youtube-gallery|ly9JS6errQQ|'''Best secondary armaments''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 0:38 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''}}
  
 
== See also ==
 
== See also ==
Line 76: Line 238:
  
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
−
* ''encyclopedia page on the tank;''
 
 
* ''other literature.''
 
* ''other literature.''
  
 
{{China medium tanks}}
 
{{China medium tanks}}

Latest revision as of 20:16, 3 June 2024

Introducing Wiki 3.0
This page is about the Chinese medium tank T-34-85 Gai. For other versions, see T-34 (Family).
Т-34-85 Gai
cn_type_58.png
GarageImage T-34-85 Gai.jpg
Т-34-85 Gai
China flag.png China
IV Rank
Battle rating:
AB RB SB
5.7 5.7 5.7
Class:
Research:31 000 Specs-Card-Exp.png
Purchase:200 000 Specs-Card-Lion.png

Description

The Т-34-85 Gai (Chinese: T or 特[Te]-34-85改) was what would become the first domestic tank built by Mainland China in the 1950s. Due to the demand for new tanks to fulfill the needs of new armour divisions, Chinese engineers reverse-engineered or acquired the blueprints for the T-34/85 Mod. 1944 in the late 1950s. This version represents a planned modification equipping a HMG on the commander's cupola and minor appearance changes for domestic production. Due to the introduction of complete T-54A blueprints that set the foundations for the Type 59, the production plan for the T-34-85 was ditched and the remaining fleet was left in reserve until the 1990s.

Introduced in Update 1.91 "Night Vision" as the successor of the Soviet-given T-34-85, the tank is generally similar to the earlier T-34-85 (S-53), which itself is identical to the Soviet T-34-85; the Gai's gameplay should be very familiar to experienced players. It differentiates itself with a number of cosmetic differences, and more importantly, a roof-mounted 12.7 mm DShK heavy machine gun. For the first time, T-34 drivers can enjoy the utility offered by a heavy machine gun similar to the ubiquitous M2 Browning featured on American tanks.

General info

Survivability and armour

Armourfront / side / back
Hull45 / 45 / 45
Turret90 / 75 / 52
Crew5 people
Visibility100 %

Armour type:

  • Rolled homogeneous armour (Hull, Turret roof)
  • Cast homogeneous armour (Turret, Cupola, Driver's hatch, Machine gun port)
Armour Front (Slope angle) Sides Rear Roof
Hull 45 mm (60°) Front glacis
45 mm (60°) Lower glacis
75 mm (60°) Driver's hatch
65 mm (30°) Machine gun port 		45 mm (39-40°) Top
45 mm Bottom 		45 mm (47-49°) Top
45 mm (46°) Bottom 		20 mm
Turret 90 mm (1-69°) Turret front
90 + 40 mm (8-61°) Gun mantlet 		75 mm (19-22°) Front 2/3rd
52 mm (13-19°) Rear 1/3rd 		52 mm (9°) 20 mm
Armour Sides Roof
Cupola 90 mm 20 mm

Notes:

  • The gun mantlet has 90 mm in front with additional small and thin 40 mm plates on the sides of the gun.
  • Suspensions wheels are 20 mm thick and tracks are 18 mm thick

The armour layout of the T-34-85 Gai is virtually identical to the T-34-85. The hull armour, while well angled, is very thin for its rank and can be penetrated by nearly any tank cannon. Creative use of angling can still lead to the occasional bounce. The 90 mm thick turret is also thin for its rank, but the good sloping on the sides can also lead to bounces with some luck.

The T-34-85 has very poor survivability due to the fact that all 5 crew members are packed close to each other. A hull penetration will likely knock out all of them. However, inexperienced players that face this tank will often shoot the lower hull part of the driver hatch, which is infamous for being surprisingly resilient.

Mobility

Speedforward / back
AB68 / 11 km/h
RB and SB62 / 10 km/h
Number of gears5 forward
1 back
Weight32.2 t
Engine power
AB992 hp
RB and SB520 hp
Power-to-weight ratio
AB30.8 hp/t
RB and SB16.1 hp/t
Game Mode Max Speed (km/h) Weight (tons) Engine power (horsepower) Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
Forward Reverse Stock Upgraded Stock Upgraded
Arcade 68 11 32.2 775 992 24.07 30.81
Realistic 62 10 442 520 13.73 16.15

The T-34-85 Gai has excellent mobility for a medium tank, as expected of a T-34. It can reach high speeds both on and off road thanks to its wide tracks. The reverse speed is not exactly great, but it is significantly better than those of comparable Shermans, Panthers, and early T-34s (76 mm, 57 mm variants).

Modifications and economy

Repair costBasic → Reference
AB3 128 → 4 025 Sl icon.png
RB3 733 → 4 804 Sl icon.png
SB4 664 → 6 002 Sl icon.png
Total cost of modifications52 700 Rp icon.png
91 000 Sl icon.png
Talisman cost1 700 Ge icon.png
Crew training57 000 Sl icon.png
Experts200 000 Sl icon.png
Aces800 Ge icon.png
Research Aces520 000 Rp icon.png
Reward for battleAB / RB / SB
110 / 180 / 210 % Sl icon.png
172 / 172 / 172 % Rp icon.png
Modifications
Mobility Protection Firepower
Mods new tank traks.png
Tracks
Research:
2 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
4 500 Sl icon.png
135 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank suspension.png
Suspension
Research:
3 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 200 Sl icon.png
160 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank break.png
Brake System
Research:
3 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 200 Sl icon.png
160 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank filter.png
Filters
Research:
3 300 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 700 Sl icon.png
175 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank transmission.png
Transmission
Research:
5 700 Rp icon.png
Cost:
9 800 Sl icon.png
300 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank engine.png
Engine
Research:
5 700 Rp icon.png
Cost:
9 800 Sl icon.png
300 Ge icon.png
Mods tank tool kit.png
Improved Parts
Research:
2 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
4 500 Sl icon.png
135 Ge icon.png
Mods extinguisher.png
Improved FPE
Research:
3 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 200 Sl icon.png
160 Ge icon.png
Mods tank reinforcement cn.png
Crew Replenishment
Research:
3 300 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 700 Sl icon.png
175 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank horizontal aiming.png
Horizontal Drive
Research:
2 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
4 500 Sl icon.png
135 Ge icon.png
Mods tank ammo.png
85mm_APHE_ammo_pack
Research:
2 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
4 500 Sl icon.png
135 Ge icon.png
Mods tank cannon.png
Adjustment of Fire
Research:
3 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 200 Sl icon.png
160 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank vertical aiming.png
Elevation Mechanism
Research:
3 300 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 700 Sl icon.png
175 Ge icon.png
Mods tank ammo.png
85mm_APCR_ammo_pack
Research:
3 300 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 700 Sl icon.png
175 Ge icon.png
Mods art support.png
Artillery Support
Research:
5 700 Rp icon.png
Cost:
9 800 Sl icon.png
300 Ge icon.png

Armaments

Main armament

85 mm Type 56 cannon
Ammunition55 rounds
First-order16 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
9.6 → 7.4 s
Vertical guidance-5° / 25°
Main article: Type 56 (85 mm)

This is where the T-34-85 Gai excels. Like other 85 mm-armed T-34s, its APHE rounds have large amounts of explosive filler and sufficient penetration values to deal with most of the common enemies you will face. Do keep in mind that you have a few different types of shells to choose from. The stock BR-365K APHE rounds have good penetration and a decent quantity of explosive filler. The unlockable BR-365A APHEBC rounds may appear to be a downgrade from the BR-365K at first, but they are deceptively powerful; excellent normalization modifiers make them far more effective against angled armour and the 164 grams of explosive filler (twice as much as the BR-365K) will guarantee the destruction of almost any target upon penetration. The BR-365P APCR rounds have the highest velocity and best flat penetration, but they are comparatively anemic in terms of post-penetration damage and are dreadful against angled armour. Lastly, the O-365 HE shell is only useful against very thinly armoured or open-top targets and should generally be avoided, as the APHE/APHEBC rounds and heavy machine gun are generally sufficient for this task.

In general it is a good idea to carry mainly BR-365A shells, as the bit of extra flat penetration on the BR-365K does not really help in penetrating more targets, while the BR-365A's slope modifiers and extra explosive filler are very useful, especially when flanking. It may be a good idea to bring a few APCR shells for emergencies, but its power is limited - it cannot penetrate the turret of a Tiger II (H), for example.

85 mm Type 56 Turret rotation speed (°/s) Reloading rate (seconds)
Mode Capacity Vertical Horizontal Stabilizer Stock Upgraded Full Expert Aced Stock Full Expert Aced
Arcade 55 -5°/+25° ±180° - 23.8 32.9 40.0 44.2 47.1 9.62 8.51 7.84 7.40
Realistic 14.9 17.5 21.3 23.5 25.0

Ammunition

Penetration statistics
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
10 m 100 m 500 m 1,000 m 1,500 m 2,000 m
Type 56 AP APHE 148 143 126 106 90 77
Type 56 APBC APHEBC 135 133 124 114 104 95
Type 56 APCR APCR 195 187 154 122 96 76
Type 56 HE HE 19 18 17 16 15 14
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Velocity
(m/s) 		Projectile
mass (kg) 		Fuse delay
(m) 		Fuse sensitivity
(mm) 		Explosive mass
(TNT equivalent) (g) 		Ricochet
0% 50% 100%
Type 56 AP APHE 792 9.2 1.2 14 77 47° 60° 65°
Type 56 APBC APHEBC 792 9.2 1.2 14 164 48° 63° 71°
Type 56 APCR APCR 1,050 4.99 - - - 66° 70° 72°
Type 56 HE HE 785 9.54 0.2 0.1 741 79° 80° 81°

Ammo racks

Ammo racks of the T-34-85 Gai
Full
ammo 		1st
rack empty 		2nd
rack empty 		3rd
rack empty 		4th
rack empty 		5th
rack empty 		Visual
discrepancy
55 52 (+3) 40 (+15) 38 (+17) 36 (+19) 1 (+54) No

Note:

  • To go into battle with the turret and the flanks empty of ammo, pack 36 (+19) shells.
  • Racks disappear after you've fired all shells in the rack.


Machine guns

12.7 mm Type 54 machine gun
Ammunition500 rounds
Belt capacity50 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
10.4 → 8.0 s
Fire rate600 shots/min
Vertical guidance-4° / 82°
7.62 mm Type 55 machine gun (coaxial)
Ammunition1 890 rounds
Belt capacity63 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
10.4 → 8.0 s
Fire rate600 shots/min
Main articles: Type 54 (12.7 mm), Type 55 (7.62 mm)
12.7 mm Type 54
Mount Capacity (Belt) Fire rate Vertical Horizontal
Pintle 500 (50) 600 -4°/+82° ±180°
7.62 mm Type 55
Mount Capacity (Belt) Fire rate Vertical Horizontal
Coaxial 1,890 (63) 600 - -

Usage in battles

While the T-34-85 Gai is a fairly well-rounded tank, its poor armour and high speed mean that one should play it more like a light tank than a medium. The gun is very lethal but the penetration is not particularly good, so it is better to flank and go for side shots, which can instantly knock out all but the largest and most spacious opponents. During frontal engagements, Tiger Is should be shot in the flat portions of the hull (avoiding the driver's port), Panthers should be shot in the turret (in the less curved portion of the mantlet) or possibly in the lower glacis, and non-Jumbo Shermans can generally be shot anywhere. The Tiger II (P) is only vulnerable in a small portion of the turret cheeks and the Tiger II (H) is essentially frontally immune, so for these kinds of targets, circle around to get a good shot at the hull sides and let the slope modifiers take care of the rest. Watch out for American tanks like the M4A3 (76) W and T25, as they have vertical stabilizers and can often shoot first if they are aware of you.

In AB, you should play this tank like any other T-34. Push because you have a pretty well-rounded tank and will generally be able to adapt to whatever situation that develops. The AB meta generally favours more heavily armed and armoured tanks due to the presence of markers, making flanking and ambushes more difficult, so play carefully and take advantage of your high mobility.

In RB, play this tank offensively yet carefully. Use your speed and keep up with your teammates, or alternatively play it like a light tank and go on long flanks. In RB, one will often encounter enemy flankers like the infamous M18 Hellcat or R3 T20 FA-HS; while the main gun is adequate for dispatching these soft targets, the heavy machine gun can also rip through them in a pinch, particularly from the sides. The machine gun can be especially helpful if one's tank is otherwise disabled due to a jammed turret ring, destroyed gun breech, etc. Diving aircraft expecting to strafe an innocuous T-34 can also be given a nasty surprise, though the DShK's small belt capacity makes this more difficult.

In SB, play this tank very cautiously because the optics aren't that good and most of the time you will face tanks from pretty far distances. Panthers generally have better optics than you so try to avoid encounters with Panthers or Tigers.

Enemies worth noting:

Panther A/D, Tiger II P:

The Panthers are one of the most common tanks around BR 5.7, and they pose a great threat with their deadly long 75 mm cannon, thick frontal armour and adequate speed. You want to avoid engaging them at long range as the T-34 has only x3.5 scope magnification, making long range shooting super hard. Engage the Panthers within 500 m and avoid shooting their frontal hull. Their biggest weak spot is the gun mantlet, which is only 100 mm thick and has a flat part in the middle. That is where you want to aim at, the T-34's APHE has sufficient damage to instantly destroy the Panther even from its turret. The second weak spot is of course the sides, guaranteeing an instant kill. Generally APHE is enough to deal with the Panthers, and no APCR is needed.

For the Tiger II P, aim at the vertical area of the frontal turret which is also 100 mm. The best tactic is still to flank it however.

Tiger H1/E:

The Tiger's weak spots are the opposite with the Panthers. Their hull are unsloped and rather thin, while the gun mantlet is weirdly shaped and can absorb quite some shells. The best engaging range remains the same, within 500 m. If the Tiger is angling, aim at the hull side below the side skirt, which is only 60 mm. If it is not angling, aim between the driver's vision port and the MG for an instant kill. Avoid shooting at these two parts as they tend to bounce/absorb shells. For the Tiger E, don't shoot at the lower glacis as there will be add-on tracks installed there, making it harder to penetrate. Avoid shooting at the turret or turret ring as your round will most likely be absorbed by overlapping armour plates

Ho-Ri:

In a frontal engagement, APCR is required as the APHE shells don't have enough penetration. With APCR loaded, aim at the further sides of the fighting compartment, away from the gun, because the further from the gun, the thinner the armour gets, with the thinnest part being around 160 mm unsloped. Penetrating there will knock out its loader, gunner or commander, or detonate the ammo. Of course, the best way is still side-shooting with APHE.

Panzer IV/70(V), Jagdpanzer 38(t):

These small tank destroyers with their well angled frontal armour can be quite a problem from a distance. With APHE, you can disable their transmission by shooting at their lower glacis. Now if you can, flank them. The 85 mm APHE does a great job at penetrating sloped, thin armour, so you don't have to get to their absolute sides. For the Pz IV/70, you can also aim at the downward part of the gun mantlet since the shell might ricochet downwards into the hull, knocking out every crew member. The Jagdpanzer 38(t) doesn't have this problem, so side-shooting is required to destroy it effectively.

M4A3E2 Jumbo:

This is another common enemy. It is recommended to use the BR-365A, the one with less pen but more explosive filler. The reason is that it is better at penetrating sloped armour, which the Jumbo has. With that shell you can easily destroy a M4A3E2 who's not angling. If it is, aim at the hull side just above the tracks, or load APCR and shoot straight at its gun mantlet. Against a 75 mm M4A3E2 you can relax a bit as it will struggle to penetrate your armour, but your cupola is a rather large weak spot and a shot through there can knock out the T-34. Be more careful with the M4A3E2 76 W, as they can easily pierce through your armour.

Tiger II (H): Your shells cannot penetrate the turret face. Try to flank it and get a shot at the turret side, as your shells normalize very well, and due to the BR365A's large amount of explosive filler, a penetrating hit on the turret will in most cases blow up the ammunition stowed in either the hull or the turret rear.

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Top mounted heavy machine gun is useful against soft targets and perhaps incoming aircraft
  • Excellent gun with adequate penetration, destructive damage and good reload rate
  • Great mobility and top speed allow for repositioning easily
  • 5-man crew increases survivability
  • Access to BR-365P APCR to effectively penetrate tough tanks up close (Tigers & Panthers)
  • Has two types of AP for players to choose: BR-365K with higher pen but less TNT, and BR-365A with less pen but plenty of TNT
  • Similar playstyle with the previous T-34s which is rather beginner-friendly
  • Fast turret traverse to easily deal with targets from multiple directions
  • Sloped hull and round frontal turret might bounce small calibre shells

Cons:

  • Armour is inadequate at its rank, providing very limited protection against common guns (American 76 mm, British 17 pdr, German 75 mm & 88 mm, etc)
  • May have issues penetrating hard targets frontally (Tiger II, Ferdinand, Ho-Ri, Panzer IV/70(V))
  • Fairly tall, top machine gun makes the tank even more noticeable
  • Awkward to place bushes on upper front hull due to the obstruction of MG port and driver's optics
  • Heavy machine gun has extremely limited ammunition count

History

The Soviet Union sold numerous T-34-85 tanks along with other vehicles to the People's Republic of China in the early 1950s since the new nation had few and often obsolete tanks in its inventory after the conclusion of the Chinese Civil War. The T-34s saw limited deployments with the People's Liberation Army during the Korean War. The history of the tank afterwards has been the subject of debate; according to some sources the PRC attempted and possibly succeeded at creating a local copy of the T-34 under a "Type 58" designation, and according to others this was never a goal, no such tanks ever existed, and only efforts to maintain and repair the T-34s were carried out. Regardless the T-34s were soon superseded by the far superior Type 59, a licensed copy of the Soviet T-54A. However, stocks of T-34s remained in the PLA inventory for a long period of time before domestic tanks were available in sufficient quantity.

T-34s in Chinese service were often upgraded to a standard referred to by some as the "Type 58". The exact details and universality of these upgrades are also nebulous, but known characteristics include a new loader's cupola capable of mounting a heavy machine gun, hardpoints on the right turret cheek for stowing away said machine gun, and a modified hinge for the rear transmission cover. Other upgrades may have been carried out as well.

The vehicle represented in War Thunder also features a splashboard welded onto the upper glacis. The "Gai" in its designation (改) means "modified" in Chinese.

Media

Skins
Videos
Best secondary armaments discusses the T-34-85 Gai at 0:38 - War Thunder Official Channel

See also

Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:

  • reference to the series of the vehicles;
  • links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.

External links

Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:

  • topic on the official game forum;
  • other literature.


China medium tanks
ZTZ59  Type 59 · ZTZ59A · ZTZ59D1
ZTZ69  Type 69 · Type 69-IIa
ZTZ88/96  ZTZ88A · ZTZ88B
  ZTZ96 · ZTZ96A · ZTZ96A (P)
ZTZ99  ZTZ99-II · ZTZ99-III
ZTZ99A  ZTZ99A · WZ1001(E) LCT
Export series  MBT-2000 · VT4A1
ROC  CM11
Other  Т-34-85 Gai · Object 122MT "MC"
Bangladesh  T-69 II G
Japan  ␗Chi-Ha · ␗Chi-Ha Kai
Pakistan  Al-Khalid-I
USA  ␗M4A4 · ␗M4A4 (1st PTG) · ␗M4A1 (75) W · ␗M48A1 · ␗M60A3 TTS
USSR  ␗T-34 (1943) · ␗Т-34-85 (S-53) · T-34-85 No.215 · Т-62 №545

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