Difference between revisions of "M8 HMC (China)"
(→Ammunition: Updated) |
(Usage in battles, Pros and Cons) (Tag: Visual edit) |
||
| Line 155: | Line 155: | ||
<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' --> | <!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' --> | ||
| − | In general, the M8 Scott plays like a beefed-up M5A1. | + | In general, the M8 Scott plays like a beefed-up [[M5A1 (China)|M5A1]]. Being based on the same chassis, the massive increase in gun calibre and destructive potential means that enemies the light tank previously had difficulty destroying can now be dealt with more easily. Like the [[M3 Stuart (Family)|M3]]/[[M5 Stuart (Family)|M5]] Stuart, playing this tank aggressively will almost always guarantee a place on the leaderboard. One strategy is to push for the capture point and take it immediately using the high speed the chassis is capable of reaching. Should an enemy get there first, enter the cap and flank the target. A recommended shot is flaking to hit the turret rear, as ammunition racks are located there in a majority of armored vehicles. Once the capture point is held, it is recommended to find a good hull down position and use the 75 mm HEAT to destroy any and all oncoming tanks. |
| − | + | When attacking open-topped vehicles like SPAAs, Tank Destroyers and trucks, the 75mm HEAT round can demolish a vehicle in one hit. If the 75mm is reloading or is unoperational, the .50 cal M2HB machine gun can be used to great effect against the target. This machine gun can even be used from behind cover, with the entire vehicle hidden behind an object and the machine gun poking up and over it. | |
| − | Tanks like the [[Pz.IV F2| | + | Against heavier armour, the need to find a good hidden position is critical. On certain tanks, the addition of track armour can give the M8 difficulty in penetrating them. A good hull down position on their flank can provide a shot to hit their side armour, which is generally less armored. Keep in mind that some tanks like the [[Pz.III M]], [[Pz.III N (Italy)|Pz.III N]], and the 41M Turan II are equipped with sideskirts and spaced armor. These are designed to counter HEAT rounds and often can absorb at least one HEAT round with no damage to the components behind it. |
| + | |||
| + | Tanks like the [[Pz.IV F2|Pz.IV F2]] and it's line of tanks can be a serious headache for the M8 Scott. A recommended strategy is to aim for the right side of their turret and knock-out their gunner first, then aim for the middle of their hull (upper or lower glacis works) for a final shot. Outside of that, most of the heavy armour will be out of the M8's BR range leaving most encountered vehicles viable to destroy. | ||
| + | |||
| + | If you finds itself under attack from the air, it is recommended to find cover as the M8 Scott's roof is open to any and all strafing fire. Once sufficient cover is found, you can switch to the cupola-mounted M2HB and attempt to shoot down the attackers. The .50 cal machine gun can output a decent amount of damage against critical components on an aircraft, and can pilot snipe an enemy due to its high penetration. | ||
=== Pros and cons === | === Pros and cons === | ||
| Line 166: | Line 170: | ||
'''Pros:''' | '''Pros:''' | ||
| − | * Great firepower, HEAT | + | * Great firepower, HEAT has enough power to pierce tough adversaries like the [[B1 bis|B1 bis]] and [[Matilda III|Matilda II]] |
| − | * 12.7 mm heavy machine gun is lethal at the battle rating | + | * 12.7 mm M2HB heavy machine gun is lethal at the battle rating and can quickly destroy vehicles like the [[Ha-Go]] or the [[He 51 C-1]] |
| − | * | + | * Excellent gun depression of -20 degrees, able to peek above almost every slope and launch surprise attacks |
| − | * When hull-down its double layer turret front can bounce some low-calibre or low-penetrating shells like the [[Pz.II (Disambiguation)|Pz.II]]s' 20 mm | + | * When hull-down, its double layer turret front can bounce some low-calibre or low-penetrating shells like the [[Pz.II (Disambiguation)|Pz.II]]s' 20 mm |
| − | * | + | * Very fast reload for the calibre allows quick follow up shots |
* Low muzzle velocity shell's parabolic path can allow for shooting over hills which can be surprisingly useful | * Low muzzle velocity shell's parabolic path can allow for shooting over hills which can be surprisingly useful | ||
| − | * Speed and mobility | + | * Speed and mobility of the [[M5 Stuart (Family)|Stuart]] light tanks, allowing it to manoeuvre and flank with ease |
'''Cons:''' | '''Cons:''' | ||
| − | * Extremely slow turret traverse makes CQB challenging | + | * Extremely slow turret traverse makes CQB challenging, especially if the vehicle is immobilized |
| + | * Short gun can be difficult to use in long range engagements | ||
* Open-top turret exposes crew to artillery and aircraft strafing fire | * Open-top turret exposes crew to artillery and aircraft strafing fire | ||
| − | * Thin armour and tightly | + | * Thin armour and tightly packed crew makes it very vulnerable to tank destroyers that have APHE, like the [[SU-76M]] |
| − | * Shells have low muzzle velocity | + | * Shells have low muzzle velocity which can be difficult to understand |
| − | * | + | * Tightly packed crew which can be knocked out easily |
== History == | == History == | ||
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' --> | <!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' --> | ||
[[File:ROCA M8 Scott Display in Chengkungling.jpg|thumb|250x250px|An M8 in display in Chengkungling, History Museum.]] | [[File:ROCA M8 Scott Display in Chengkungling.jpg|thumb|250x250px|An M8 in display in Chengkungling, History Museum.]] | ||
| − | The Republic of China's M8'' Scott '' | + | The Republic of China's M8'' Scott ''Howitzer Motor Carriages were purchased around 1948 from the United States. Approximately 200 M8 arrived in Taiwan alongside batches of M7 ''Priest'' self-propelled guns and [[M4 Sherman (Family)|M4 Sherman]] medium tanks. |
| − | + | In 1948, the '''Chinese Civil War''' battles were still ongoing. Numerous battles were won by the Communist Party of China's armoured forces and they started to show rising superiority in tank and troop numbers. This superiority lead to their eventual total control of mainland China and the retreat of the Kuomintang to Taiwan. | |
| − | The M8s were designated to provide close | + | The M8s were designated to provide close artillery support in case of massive Communist amphibious assaults in Taiwan and adjacent islands. This large-scale invasion never occurred and it is uncertain if the ''Scotts'' took any part in combat on the Chinese Civil War aside from training exercises. |
| − | There are several preserved | + | There are several preserved M8s currently in display in Taiwan. |
== Media == | == Media == | ||
Revision as of 17:24, 8 February 2022
| This page is about the SPG M8 HMC (China). For other vehicles of the family, see M8 General Scott (Family). For other uses, see M8 (Disambiguation). |
.jpg)
Contents
Description
The ␗75 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage M8 is a rank I Chinese tank destroyer with a battle rating of 1.3 (AB/RB/SB). It was introduced in Update 1.91 "Night Vision".
General info
Survivability and armour
Armourfront / side / back
Hull28 / 28 / 25
Turret38 / 25 / 25
Crew4 people
Visibility79 %
Armour type:
- Rolled homogeneous armour
- Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet)
| Armour | Front (Slope angle) | Sides | Rear | Roof |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Hull | 28.5 mm (48-49°) Front Glacis 38.1 mm (15-30°) Lower glacis |
28.5 mm Front 25.4 mm Rear |
25.4 mm (1-47°) Top 25.4 mm (1-20°) Bottom |
12.7 mm |
| Turret | 38.1 mm (6-40°) Turret front 38.1 mm (1-65°) Gun mantlet |
25.4 mm (18-20°) | 25.4 mm (1°) | N/A |
Notes:
- Suspension wheels are 15 mm thick while tracks are 10 mm thick.
- Tracks are peppered on the turret sides that give 17 mm extra where they are.
- Belly armour is 12.7 mm thick
Mobility
Speedforward / back
AB70 / 19 km/h
RB and SB64 / 17 km/h
Number of gears8 forward
2 back
Weight15.6 t
Engine power
AB565 hp
RB and SB296 hp
Power-to-weight ratio
AB36.2 hp/t
RB and SB19.0 hp/t
| Game Mode | Max Speed (km/h) | Weight (tons) | Engine power (horsepower) | Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton) | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Forward | Reverse | Stock | Upgraded | Stock | Upgraded | ||
| Arcade | 70 | 19 | 15.6 | 420 | 565 | 26.92 | 36.22 |
| Realistic | 64 | 17 | 262 | 296 | 16.79 | 18.97 | |
Modifications and economy
Repair costBasic → Reference
AB93 → 115 
RB107 → 132
SB126 → 155
Total cost of modifications2 970 
890
Talisman cost190 
Crew training200
Experts1 000
Aces20
Research Aces96 000
Reward for battleAB / RB / SB
10 / 20 / 20 %
100 / 100 / 100 %
| Mobility | Protection | Firepower | ||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
|
Armaments
Main armament
Ammunition46 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
4.3 → 3.3 s
Vertical guidance-20° / 40°
| 75 mm M2 Howitzer | Turret rotation speed (°/s) | Reloading rate (seconds) | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mode | Capacity | Vertical | Horizontal | Stabilizer | Stock | Upgraded | Full | Expert | Aced | Stock | Full | Expert | Aced |
| Arcade | 46 | -20°/+40° | ±180° | N/A | 5.28 | 7.31 | 8.88 | 9.82 | 10.45 | 4.29 | 3.80 | 3.50 | 3.30 |
| Realistic | 3.57 | 4.20 | 5.10 | 5.64 | 6.00 | ||||||||
Ammunition
| Penetration statistics | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm) | |||||
| 10 m | 100 m | 500 m | 1,000 m | 1,500 m | 2,000 m | ||
| M48 shell | HE | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 |
| M66 | HEAT | 89 | 89 | 89 | 89 | 89 | 89 |
| Shell details | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Velocity (m/s) |
Projectile Mass (kg) |
Fuse delay (m) |
Fuse sensitivity (mm) |
Explosive Mass (TNT equivalent) (g) |
Ricochet | ||
| 0% | 50% | 100% | |||||||
| M48 shell | HE | 381 | 6.3 | 0 | 0.1 | 666 | 79° | 80° | 81° |
| M66 | HEAT | 304 | 6.02 | 0.05 | 0.1 | 548.13 | 62° | 69° | 73° |
| Smoke shell characteristics | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Velocity (m/s) |
Projectile Mass (kg) |
Screen radius (m) |
Screen deploy time (s) |
Screen hold time (s) |
Explosive Mass (TNT equivalent) (g) |
| M64 | 381 | 6.9 | 13 | 5 | 20 | 50 |
Ammo racks
Ammo racks of the M8 HMC (China)
| Full ammo |
1st rack empty |
2nd rack empty |
3rd rack empty |
4th rack empty |
Visual discrepancy |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 46 | 35 (+11) | 23 (+23) | 12 (+34) | 1 (+45) | No |
Machine guns
Ammunition400 rounds
Belt capacity200 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
10.4 → 8.0 s
Fire rate575 shots/min
Vertical guidance-5° / 70°
| 12.7 mm M2HB | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mount | Capacity (Belt) | Fire rate | Vertical | Horizontal |
| Pintle | 400 (200) | 576 | -5°/+70° | ±180° |
Usage in battles
In general, the M8 Scott plays like a beefed-up M5A1. Being based on the same chassis, the massive increase in gun calibre and destructive potential means that enemies the light tank previously had difficulty destroying can now be dealt with more easily. Like the M3/M5 Stuart, playing this tank aggressively will almost always guarantee a place on the leaderboard. One strategy is to push for the capture point and take it immediately using the high speed the chassis is capable of reaching. Should an enemy get there first, enter the cap and flank the target. A recommended shot is flaking to hit the turret rear, as ammunition racks are located there in a majority of armored vehicles. Once the capture point is held, it is recommended to find a good hull down position and use the 75 mm HEAT to destroy any and all oncoming tanks.
When attacking open-topped vehicles like SPAAs, Tank Destroyers and trucks, the 75mm HEAT round can demolish a vehicle in one hit. If the 75mm is reloading or is unoperational, the .50 cal M2HB machine gun can be used to great effect against the target. This machine gun can even be used from behind cover, with the entire vehicle hidden behind an object and the machine gun poking up and over it.
Against heavier armour, the need to find a good hidden position is critical. On certain tanks, the addition of track armour can give the M8 difficulty in penetrating them. A good hull down position on their flank can provide a shot to hit their side armour, which is generally less armored. Keep in mind that some tanks like the Pz.III M, Pz.III N, and the 41M Turan II are equipped with sideskirts and spaced armor. These are designed to counter HEAT rounds and often can absorb at least one HEAT round with no damage to the components behind it.
Tanks like the Pz.IV F2 and it's line of tanks can be a serious headache for the M8 Scott. A recommended strategy is to aim for the right side of their turret and knock-out their gunner first, then aim for the middle of their hull (upper or lower glacis works) for a final shot. Outside of that, most of the heavy armour will be out of the M8's BR range leaving most encountered vehicles viable to destroy.
If you finds itself under attack from the air, it is recommended to find cover as the M8 Scott's roof is open to any and all strafing fire. Once sufficient cover is found, you can switch to the cupola-mounted M2HB and attempt to shoot down the attackers. The .50 cal machine gun can output a decent amount of damage against critical components on an aircraft, and can pilot snipe an enemy due to its high penetration.
Pros and cons
Pros:
- Great firepower, HEAT has enough power to pierce tough adversaries like the B1 bis and Matilda II
- 12.7 mm M2HB heavy machine gun is lethal at the battle rating and can quickly destroy vehicles like the Ha-Go or the He 51 C-1
- Excellent gun depression of -20 degrees, able to peek above almost every slope and launch surprise attacks
- When hull-down, its double layer turret front can bounce some low-calibre or low-penetrating shells like the Pz.IIs' 20 mm
- Very fast reload for the calibre allows quick follow up shots
- Low muzzle velocity shell's parabolic path can allow for shooting over hills which can be surprisingly useful
- Speed and mobility of the Stuart light tanks, allowing it to manoeuvre and flank with ease
Cons:
- Extremely slow turret traverse makes CQB challenging, especially if the vehicle is immobilized
- Short gun can be difficult to use in long range engagements
- Open-top turret exposes crew to artillery and aircraft strafing fire
- Thin armour and tightly packed crew makes it very vulnerable to tank destroyers that have APHE, like the SU-76M
- Shells have low muzzle velocity which can be difficult to understand
- Tightly packed crew which can be knocked out easily
History
The Republic of China's M8 Scott Howitzer Motor Carriages were purchased around 1948 from the United States. Approximately 200 M8 arrived in Taiwan alongside batches of M7 Priest self-propelled guns and M4 Sherman medium tanks.
In 1948, the Chinese Civil War battles were still ongoing. Numerous battles were won by the Communist Party of China's armoured forces and they started to show rising superiority in tank and troop numbers. This superiority lead to their eventual total control of mainland China and the retreat of the Kuomintang to Taiwan.
The M8s were designated to provide close artillery support in case of massive Communist amphibious assaults in Taiwan and adjacent islands. This large-scale invasion never occurred and it is uncertain if the Scotts took any part in combat on the Chinese Civil War aside from training exercises.
There are several preserved M8s currently in display in Taiwan.
Media
- Skins
- Videos
Best gun depression discusses the M8 HMC (China) at 3:43 - War Thunder Official Channel
See also
US similar versions
External links
- "Tanke Mao," Ching-shih Ch'iang-chia, and T'ien Li-jen: "The Evolution of the Republic of China Army Armored Artillery." Illustrated Guide of Weapons & Tactics [兵器戰術圖解], v20 May 2005, p78-82.
- The Developmental History of the Nationalist Armored Force [國軍裝甲兵發展史] by Said Mohamed 孫建中; Sun Chien-chung, 2005
- ROC's M8 pictures
- English forum discussion related to the ROC's M8 combat use
- English forum discussion related to the arrival of the M8 to Taiwan
| China tank destroyers | |
|---|---|
| PLA | |
| Gun vehicles | PLZ83 · PLZ83-130 · PLZ05 · PTZ89 |
| Missile vehicles | AFT09 |
| ROC | |
| Missile vehicles | CM25 |
| USA | |
| Gun vehicles | ␗M8 HMC · LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) · ␗M10 GMC · ␗M36 GMC |
| Missile vehicles | ␗M113A1 (TOW) |
| USSR | |
| Gun vehicles | ␗SU-76M · ␗ISU-152 · ␗ISU-122 · ␗SU-100 |
