Stormer HVM - Revision history

U44629479: /* Radars */ Edits

2024-05-27T16:26:26Z

‎Radars: Edits

U44629479: Edits

2024-03-30T21:00:31Z

Edits

U12017485: typo

2024-02-23T14:13:01Z

typo

U42773747: tried to fact-check the page with more RB perspective and whatever changed over time.

2024-01-17T17:48:39Z

tried to fact-check the page with more RB perspective and whatever changed over time.

U17577377: Undo revision 178964 by U41260902 (talk)

2023-12-24T00:56:15Z

Undo revision 178964 by U41260902 (talk)

U41260902: /* Pros and cons */

2023-12-18T09:55:02Z

‎Pros and cons

U126556775: New description format

2023-10-25T16:25:17Z

New description format

U38088265: /* Main armament */

2023-08-12T22:19:31Z

‎Main armament

U44629479: Edits

2023-06-24T17:21:44Z

Edits

U38088265: /* Ammunition */ Converted to transclusion

2023-01-22T19:52:23Z

‎Ammunition: Converted to transclusion

@@ Line 109: / Line 109: @@
 {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
-! colspan="5" | Thales ADAD - Passive Infared Search
+! colspan="5" | Thales ADAD - Passive Infrared Search
 |-
 ! {{Annotation|Maximum<br/>Detection<br/>Range|The maximum possible range at which a target can be detected}}
@@ Line 119: / Line 119: @@
 | ~8,000 m || N/A || 360° || -__°/+__° || N/A
 |-
-! colspan="5" | Thales ADAD - Passive Infared Track
+! colspan="5" | Thales ADAD - Passive Infrared Track
 |-
 ! {{Annotation|Maximum<br/>Tracking<br/>Range|The maximum range at which a target can be tracked}}

@@ Line 117: / Line 117: @@
 ! {{Annotation|Minimum<br/>relative speed|The minimum speed a target must be moving, relative to the radar, in order to be detectable by the radar}}
 |-
-| ~8,000 m || N/A || 360° || -__°/+__°  || N/A
+| ~8,000 m || N/A || 360° || -__°/+__° || N/A
 |-
 ! colspan="5" | Thales ADAD - Passive Infared Track
@@ Line 127: / Line 127: @@
 ! {{Annotation|Minimum<br/>target speed|The minimum speed a target must be moving, relative to the radar, in order to be tracked by the radar}}
 |-
-| ~8,000 m || N/A || 360° || -__°/+__°  || N/A
+| ~8,000 m || N/A || 360° || -__°/+__° || N/A
 |-
 |}
@@ Line 176: / Line 176: @@
 {{Notice| "Targeting" and "leadership" on your crew should be maxed out. This SPAA cannot track targets properly without it and should not be used by a level 1 crew. You have been warned.|!}}
-Do note, that a plane approaching at a sharp angle will mess with turret automatic guidance, due to it passing by too fast. It is also very difficult for the darts to catch up to jets not flying straight away from or towards the Stormer HVM at speeds above 600 km/h, as the missiles either bleed their speed very fast or just pass them by as they gain a sudden speed boost. Due to this, Stormer HVM struggles with manoeuverable CAS planes.
+Do note, that a plane approaching at a sharp angle will mess with turret automatic guidance, due to it passing by too fast. It is also very difficult for the darts to catch up to jets not flying straight away from or towards the Stormer HVM at speeds above 600 km/h, as the missiles either bleed their speed very fast or just pass them by as they gain a sudden speed boost. Due to this, Stormer HVM struggles with manoeuvrable CAS planes.
-It's better to attack when jet is further than 3 km away, slows down or flies in a straight line, so that you can attempt to adjust the shot yourself. If you want to attack planes at shorter ranges, you must acquire thermal sight to be able to comprehend what happens during the missile launch, as otherwise the missiles are too difficult to properly see and it becomes nigh impossible to "catch" the moment when they get the sudden speed boost, which generally happends at exactly 1 km range. Even with thermal sights calibrated to the user preference, without rigorous practice such attack will probably result in a miss more than once.
+It's better to attack when jet is further than 3 km away, slows down or flies in a straight line, so that you can attempt to adjust the shot yourself. If you want to attack planes at shorter ranges, you must acquire thermal sight to be able to comprehend what happens during the missile launch, as otherwise the missiles are too difficult to properly see and it becomes nigh impossible to "catch" the moment when they get the sudden speed boost, which generally happens at exactly 1 km range. Even with thermal sights calibrated to the user preference, without rigorous practice such attack will probably result in a miss more than once.
 The Stormer HVM has huge gaps in optics: 10-40X optics, which can be manually adjusted during AA duty, simply hitting "maximum zoom" will probably result in a miss at some angles of attack.
@@ Line 225: / Line 225: @@
 ;Videos
-{{Youtube-gallery|VNoalq4WIt4|'''The Shooting Range #151''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:32 discusses the Stormer HVM.|luvhoX8Ht1I|'''New anti-air defence'''  discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 6:16  - ''War Thunder Official Channel''}}
+{{Youtube-gallery|VNoalq4WIt4|'''The Shooting Range #151''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:32 discusses the Stormer HVM.|luvhoX8Ht1I|'''New anti-air defence''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 6:16 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''}}
 == See also ==

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a variant of the Alvis Stormer AFV that was designed to provide short-range air defense for British ground forces. It was created in response to the growing danger of attack helicopters, such as the Soviet Mi-24 Hind. The British Army opted for the Starstreak missile due to its three-dart warhead, which can overcome both armour and countermeasures. The Stormer's chassis offered excellent crew protection and mobility, making it a suitable platform for the Starstreak missile. The vehicle can hold a maximum of 12 Starstreak missiles, which can destroy low-flying targets, including helicopters, jets, and drones, up to 7 km away. The Stormer HVM entered service in 1997 and was later deployed to Iraq. Oman also purchased some for their own defense needs, while Ukraine received some of the units. As air threats to Western forces diminished, the British Army retired the Stormer HVM in 2009 and sought more advanced alternatives like the Sky Sabre.
-The {{Specs|name}} was introduced in [[Update 1.89 "Imperial Navy"]]. It is a unique and powerful vehicle that can challenge any airborne opponent with its missiles. However, despite its capabilities, the Stormer HVM does have some drawbacks. One of the main drawbacks is its limited range. With a maximum range of 7 km, it will not be able to engage targets that are located further away. Additionally, the Stormer HVM's effectiveness may be reduced against highly maneuverable and fast-moving aerial threats. Overall, it is best used as an early-spawn vehicle to quickly neutralize helicopters and possibly engage lightly armoured targets.
+The {{Specs|name}} was introduced in [[Update 1.89 "Imperial Navy"]]. It is a unique and powerful vehicle that can challenge any airborne opponent with its missiles. However, despite its capabilities, the Stormer HVM does have some drawbacks. One of the main drawbacks is its limited range. With a maximum range of 7 km, it will not be able to engage targets that are located further away. Additionally, the Stormer HVM's effectiveness may be reduced against highly manoeuvrable and fast-moving aerial threats. Overall, it is best used as an early-spawn vehicle to quickly neutralize helicopters and possibly engage lightly armoured targets.
 == General info ==

@@ Line 65: / Line 65: @@
 The {{PAGENAME}} uses surface-to-air Starstreak missiles and their unique properties make it hard to use them for anything else. There are 8 of them mounted on the turret and there are 8 more spares in the back of the tank.
-The missiles are launched in two stages - the carrier missile and the "darts". The information in the stat-card is presented for the carrier missile and differs from the actual payload unleashed after ~580 m of flight.
+The missiles are launched in two stages - the carrier missile and the "darts". The information in the stat-card is presented for the carrier missile and differs from the actual payload unleashed after ~450 m of flight. The main missile has a very bright engine flare, while the mini missiles are very dim and difficult to follow without thermal sight.
 In spite of the indicated top speed, Starstreaks bleed their speed very fast when forced to chase jets at an angle, so consider practising fire discipline or look for spots from which you can hit them head-on or in the back.
-The missiles are guided by a laser, which makes them trigger LWS upon launch, but also allows to guide multiple launches at once and renders jammers and most countermeasures useless.
+The missiles are guided by a laser, which makes them trigger LWS upon launch, but also allows to guide multiple launches at once (generally, up to two) and renders jammers and most countermeasures useless.
 ==== Ammunition ====
@@ Line 99: / Line 99: @@
 ===Radars===
-Stormer HMV uses special infrared search devices to detect targets. While they have a significantly shorter range than "normal" radar and cannot tell the range towards target until specifically locked onto it, they can tell which targets are friendly and do not target them, or at least specifically mark them as "friendly". They also scan Stormer HVM surroundings approximately 6 times a second even when locked on, which makes bypassing it next to impossible.
+Stormer HMV uses special infrared search devices to detect targets. They have a significantly shorter range than "normal" radar and cannot tell the range towards target until specifically locked onto it. They also scan Stormer HVM surroundings approximately 6 times a second even when locked on, which makes bypassing it next to impossible.
-Infrared detectors are invisible to "radar detectors" and will not alert helicopters or supersonic jets of your presence. There is no benefit in powering it down as of now.
+It is so sensitive, that it may spot random shells when they are fired and fly across the battlefield. The search system will react to flares launched during night battles, flooding it with fake targets and can lock onto rockets or flares launched by helicopters. It is possible to lock onto them by accident from sniper seat as well, but once the enemy aircraft was locked onto, the tracker will ignore everything else.
 Trees and smokes can completely block IRST system - if you cannot see your opponent yourself through thick forest, neither will the system.
 {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
@@ Line 133: / Line 134: @@
 <!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
-It is best to hide from sight of others when using this SPAA - move around battlefield and use terrain and caves as a hiding spot for yourself. Exploit mobility upgrades to stand on mountain edges, if necessary.
+It is best to hide from sight of others when using this SPAA - move around battlefield and use terrain and caves as a hiding spot for yourself. At the same time, you want to have at least some form of high ground so that when enemy aircraft accidentally exposes itself, you can put an end to it immediately. Exploit mobility upgrades to stand on mountain edges, if necessary.
 Avoid participating in direct combat with medium tanks at any cost, as you definitely will not help in winning the fight directly and they might use the gigantic ammo rack as a way to destroy your allies. The only logical exception is if you are supporting allied ATGM tank by removing hostile tank ERA and turning their attention towards you, then immediately retreat. Any attempts to do sneaky shots on medium tanks should only be done if you are sure it's worth it.
@@ Line 157: / Line 158: @@
 ;After ~450 m
-Three missiles disassemble from carrier missile and start increasing their speed to the extreme, easily reaching 1178 m/s. To not lose control over their movement due to speed, they constantly spiral. Missiles have acceptable agility and will instantly react to any scope movements, so aim them using sniper mode. Be quick and precise, if possible.
+Three missiles disassemble from carrier missile and start increasing their speed to the extreme, easily reaching 1178 m/s in a straight line. To not lose control over their movement due to speed, they constantly spiral. Missiles have acceptable agility and will instantly react to any scope movements, so aim them using sniper mode. Be quick and precise, if possible.
 They have minimal penetration and, mostly due to their spiralling nature, aiming them at ground forces is practically pointless, unless you try to disintegrate tanks which have little to no armour, like other SPAA or ATGM tanks - in the case of such tanks, if you somehow hit their weak spot, they still can be destroyed by smaller missiles, so it is worth trying.
@@ Line 166: / Line 167: @@
 '''Against air targets:'''
-To helicopters, the missiles usually are fatal, as they are almost bound to get hit by at least one of Starstreaks, and explosion either tears off the tail or knocks out the pilot. However, even in the case of this missile, there are cases when Support helicopters somehow survived a direct hit, so you might want to launch two attacks at once just to be sure.
+To helicopters, the missiles usually are fatal, as they are almost bound to get hit by at least one of Starstreaks, and explosion either tears off the tail or knocks out the pilot. However, even in the case of this missile, there are cases when Support helicopters somehow survived a direct hit, so you might want to launch two attacks at once just to be sure. You might want to stay a bit closer to the middle of the battlefield just because top ATGM helicopters have a 1 km range advantage over Starstreak missiles, but such positioning will also make you easier to find.
-To use the missiles against moving aircraft (mainly, planes) properly, you need to lock on to an aerial target. The IRST system cannot tell you where the targets really are, just the direction they're in. Instead of wasting time while looking for them manually, simply lock onto any target on your "radar" display via hotkeys like with [[Chieftain Marksman]] and turret will near instantaneously turn towards them by itself.
+To use the missiles against moving aircraft (mainly, planes) properly, you need to lock on to an aerial target. The IRST system cannot tell you where the targets really are, just the direction they're in, so if you already see the plane, it's probably better to lock on from the sniper sight. If you don't already see them, instead of wasting time while looking for them manually, simply lock onto any target on your "radar" display via hotkeys from third person view like with [[Chieftain Marksman]] and the turret will near instantaneously turn towards them by itself. Keep in mind that the system can target allies and random things like shells, fires and flares, so don't immediately fire if turret turns towards your airfield.
 [[File:Stormer HVM hit with weird lock-on data.jpg|right|thumb|325px]]
@@ Line 175: / Line 176: @@
 {{Notice| "Targeting" and "leadership" on your crew should be maxed out. This SPAA cannot track targets properly without it and should not be used by a level 1 crew. You have been warned.|!}}
-Do note, that a plane approaching at a sharp angle will mess with turret automatic guidance, due to it passing by too fast.
+Do note, that a plane approaching at a sharp angle will mess with turret automatic guidance, due to it passing by too fast. It is also very difficult for the darts to catch up to jets not flying straight away from or towards the Stormer HVM at speeds above 600 km/h, as the missiles either bleed their speed very fast or just pass them by as they gain a sudden speed boost. Due to this, Stormer HVM struggles with manoeuverable CAS planes.
-It is also very difficult for the darts to catch up to jets not flying straight away from or towards the Stormer HVM at speeds above 600 km/h, as the missiles bleed their speed very fast. It's better to attack when jet is further than 3 km away, slows down or flies in a straight line, so that you can attempt to adjust the shot yourself.
+It's better to attack when jet is further than 3 km away, slows down or flies in a straight line, so that you can attempt to adjust the shot yourself. If you want to attack planes at shorter ranges, you must acquire thermal sight to be able to comprehend what happens during the missile launch, as otherwise the missiles are too difficult to properly see and it becomes nigh impossible to "catch" the moment when they get the sudden speed boost, which generally happends at exactly 1 km range. Even with thermal sights calibrated to the user preference, without rigorous practice such attack will probably result in a miss more than once.
 The Stormer HVM has huge gaps in optics: 10-40X optics, which can be manually adjusted during AA duty, simply hitting "maximum zoom" will probably result in a miss at some angles of attack.

@@ Line 207: / Line 207: @@
 * Due to a huge gap in optics zoom levels, the operator is often required to manually adjust scope, instead of just hitting "maximum zoom" button, and to lock on different aircraft without leaving the sniper seat
 * After dispersing, triple missiles constantly spiral, making precise long-range aiming at ground forces pointless, not to mention that most tanks in its natural battle rating range are immune to triple missile attack unless hit at a perfectly flat angle
 == History ==

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} British self-propelled anti-aircraft vehicle {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.89 "Imperial Navy"]].
+The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a variant of the Alvis Stormer AFV that was designed to provide short-range air defense for British ground forces. It was created in response to the growing danger of attack helicopters, such as the Soviet Mi-24 Hind. The British Army opted for the Starstreak missile due to its three-dart warhead, which can overcome both armour and countermeasures. The Stormer's chassis offered excellent crew protection and mobility, making it a suitable platform for the Starstreak missile. The vehicle can hold a maximum of 12 Starstreak missiles, which can destroy low-flying targets, including helicopters, jets, and drones, up to 7 km away. The Stormer HVM entered service in 1997 and was later deployed to Iraq. Oman also purchased some for their own defense needs, while Ukraine received some of the units. As air threats to Western forces diminished, the British Army retired the Stormer HVM in 2009 and sought more advanced alternatives like the Sky Sabre.
 == General info ==

@@ Line 54: / Line 54: @@
 |-
 ! ''Arcade''
-| rowspan="2" | 16 || rowspan="2" | -10°/+60° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | Two-plane || 72.5 || 72.5 || 88.1 || 97.4 || 103.6 || rowspan="2" | 1.30 || rowspan="2" | 1.15 || rowspan="2" | 1.06 || rowspan="2" | 1.00
+| rowspan="2" | 16 || rowspan="2" | -10°/+60° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | Two-plane || 61.6 || 85.3 || 103.6 || 114.6 || 121.9 || rowspan="2" | 1.30 || rowspan="2" | 1.15 || rowspan="2" | 1.06 || rowspan="2" | 1.00
 |-
 ! ''Realistic''
-| 49.0 || 49.0 || 59.5 || 65.8 || 70.0
+| 41.6 || 49.0 || 59.5 || 65.8 || 70.0
 |-
 |}

@@ Line 187: / Line 187: @@
 * Unique anti-air missiles - triple missile with one of the highest speeds in a straight line in-game
 * Has far more agreeable rearm sequence and timings than the latter [[ADATS (M113)]]
-* While triple missiles only explode on contact, they still can manoeuvre at maximum speed and always spiral, which allows them to bypass rocket walls, Vulcan gun fire and other countermeasures. Proximity missile attack from [[ADATS]], [[ZPRK 2S6]] and other such SAM SPAA in same circumstances would fail due to their missiles getting a false positive and exploding without reaching the target (which subsequently results in their user being hit by a rocket rain), which makes the Stormer in some ways better against helicopters
+* While triple missiles only explode on contact, they still can manoeuvre at maximum speed and always spiral, which allows them to bypass rocket walls, Vulcan gun fire and other countermeasures. Proximity missile attack from [[XM1069]], [[ZPRK 2S6]] and other such SAM SPAA in same circumstances would fail due to their missiles getting a false positive and exploding without reaching the target (which subsequently results in their user being hit by a rocket rain), which makes the Stormer in some ways better against helicopters
 ** Missiles are also immune to flares, IRCM and chaff; If the Stormer HVM is locked on it is nearly impossible to just block them
 * Good speed of chassis
@@ Line 197: / Line 197: @@
 * High profile of ammo rack, which is also a weak spot, which can be ignited even by 7.62 mm machine guns or close artillery miss. Any damage to the missiles causes entire vehicle to explode, unlike with [[Striker]]
-* On top of high profile, ammo racks visually remind players of [[ADATS]] and will likely make ground forces drop everything and immediately attack it - stealth approach is required at all times
+* On top of high profile, ammo racks visually remind players of [[XM1069]] and will likely make ground forces drop everything and immediately attack it - stealth approach is required at all times
 * Two-stage launch, lack of proximity fuse, questionable lock-on accuracy and speed bleed on turns make it difficult for missiles to hit jets, at least at ranges below 3,000 m
 * Hull defences are inadequate against tanks and aircraft with weapons bigger than 20 mm autocannon, even if your ammo rack happened to be empty

@@ Line 70: / Line 70: @@
 ==== Ammunition ====
-{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
+{{:Starstreak/Ammunition|Starstreak HVM}}
 ==== [[Ammo racks]] ====