SA35 L/72 (25 mm) - Revision history

U44629479: Edits

2023-01-22T22:10:18Z

Edits

U44629479: /* Available ammunition */ Converted to transclusion

2023-01-21T12:59:14Z

‎Available ammunition: Converted to transclusion

U38088265: U38088265 moved page SA34 L/72 (25 mm) to SA35 L/72 (25 mm)

2022-08-14T16:13:51Z

U38088265 moved page SA34 L/72 (25 mm) to SA35 L/72 (25 mm)

U44629479: Edits

2021-01-30T10:47:18Z

Edits

U39013551: /* History */

2021-01-30T09:52:55Z

‎History

U39013551 at 00:31, 30 January 2021

2021-01-30T00:31:28Z

U39013551: /* Description */ Filled in the page

2021-01-30T00:28:11Z

‎Description: Filled in the page

Show changes

U38088265: Added AMD.35

2019-11-13T23:26:12Z

Added AMD.35

U38088265: /* Vehicles equipped with this weapon */ Populated list

2019-03-18T15:45:49Z

‎Vehicles equipped with this weapon: Populated list

U64962917: Created page.

2019-01-18T02:38:15Z

Created page.

New page

== Description ==
''Write an introduction to the article in 2-3 small paragraphs. Briefly tell about the history of the development and combat using of the weaponry and also about its features. Make an air or ground vehicles list on which this weapon is installed in our game.''

=== Vehicles equipped with this weapon ===

== General info ==
''Tell us about the tactical and technical characteristics of the cannon or machine gun.''

=== Available shells ===
''Describe the shells that are available for the cannon and their features and purpose. If it concerns autocannons or machine guns, so write about different ammo belts and what is inside (which types of shells).''

=== Comparison with analogues ===
''Give a comparative description of cannons/machine guns, that have firepower equal to these type of weapons.''

== Usage in the battles ==
''Describe the cannon/machine gun in the game - its distinctive features, tactics of usage against the main opponents. Please don't write a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but give the reader food for thought.''

=== Pros and cons ===
''Summarize and briefly evaluate the weaponry in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark pros and cons as a list.''

'''Pros:'''
*

'''Cons:'''
*

== Historical part ==
''Examine the history of the creation and combat usage of this weapon. If the historical reference turns out to be a big one, take it into a separate article and add a link to it by using the "main" template. In the end be sure to include references to sources.''

== Media ==
''An excellent addition to the article would be a video guide, as well as screenshots from the game and photos.''

== Read also ==
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example,''
* ''reference to the article about the variant of the cannon/machine gun;''
* ''references to approximate analogues by other nations and research trees.''
''ETC.''

== Sources ==
''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
* ''topic on the official game forum''
* ''page on the Wikipedia''
* ''page on aircraft or ground forces encyclopedia''
* ''other literature''

{{France tank cannons}}

[[Category:Tank cannons]]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Description ==
-<!-- "Write an introduction to the article in 2-3 small paragraphs. Briefly tell us about the history of the development and combat using the weaponry and also about its features. Compile a list of air, ground, or naval vehicles that feature this weapon system in the game." -->
+<!-- ''Write an introduction to the article in 2-3 small paragraphs. Briefly tell us about the history of the development and combat using the weaponry and also about its features. Compile a list of air, ground, or naval vehicles that feature this weapon system in the game.'' -->
 During the First World War, France together with Britain were the most important users and producers of armoured cars. Starting from 1916, when France started to produce its first tanks, numerous studies were launched to properly understand armour and how to effectively defeat it, mainly so that the French troops had an easier time dealing with armoured vehicles.
@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 == General info ==
-<!-- "Tell us about the tactical and technical characteristics of the cannon or machine gun." -->
+<!-- ''Tell us about the tactical and technical characteristics of the cannon or machine gun.'' -->
 The SA34 L/72 is a cannon which takes shells of the 25 x 193.5 mm calibre, however only the APC round is available. Reload rate is 3.9 seconds, which translates to 15 rounds a minute. It has an effective range of 1,800 m. Length of the cannon is 1,800 mm.
@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 === Comparison with analogues ===
-<!-- "Give a comparative description of cannons/machine guns that have firepower equal to this weapon." -->
+<!-- ''Give a comparative description of cannons/machine guns that have firepower equal to this weapon.'' -->
 {| class="wikitable"
@@ Line 46: / Line 46: @@
 == Usage in battles ==
-<!-- "Describe the cannon/machine gun in the game - its distinctive features, tactics of usage against notable opponents. Please don't write a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but give the reader food for thought." -->
+<!-- ''Describe the cannon/machine gun in the game - its distinctive features, tactics of usage against notable opponents. Please don't write a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but give the reader food for thought.'' -->
-Due to a low tier vehicle, a penetration value of 71 mm is sufficient enough to bring down most of the opposition you'll face. The velocity of 950 m/s will come in handy if one is trying to snipe, but it should be noted that penetration value drops drastically and even more so if one hits an angled piece of armor due to the subcaliber nature of the round.
+Due to a low tier vehicle, a penetration value of 71 mm is sufficient enough to bring down most of the opposition you'll face. The velocity of 950 m/s will come in handy if one is trying to snipe, but the penetration value drops drastically and even more so if one hits an angled piece of armour due to the subcalibre nature of the round.
 There are two main ways of using the SA34;
@@ Line 57: / Line 57: @@
 ;Sniping
-If one is using the [[AMR.35 ZT3]], it is highly recommended to not engage in direct confrontations but rather to find a good vantage point where the user can see most of the territory without exposing themselves all that much. The user lacks armour and they only have 2 crew mates, so protection and likelihood of surviving more than a single shot is highly unlikely. The armour is even worse than on the AMD.35 as the front and side armor is just 13 mm thick, while the rear is only 10 mm thick allowing even 7.62 mm bullets to penetrate and damage your engine or setting you ablaze.
+If one is using the [[AMR.35 ZT3]], it is highly recommended to not engage in direct confrontations but rather to find a good vantage point where the user can see most of the territory without exposing themselves all that much. The user lacks armour and they only have 2 crew mates, so protection and likelihood of surviving more than a single shot is highly unlikely. The armour is even worse than on the AMD.35 as the front and side armour is just 13 mm thick, while the rear is only 10 mm thick allowing even 7.62 mm bullets to penetrate and damage your engine or setting you ablaze.
 === Pros and cons ===
-<!-- "Summarise and briefly evaluate the weaponry in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark pros and cons as a list." -->
+<!-- ''Summarise and briefly evaluate the weaponry in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark pros and cons as a list.'' -->
 '''Pros:'''
@@ Line 74: / Line 74: @@
 == History ==
-<!-- "Examine the history of the creation and combat usage of the weapon in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the weapon and adding a block "/History" (example: https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Weapon-name)/History) and add a link to it here using the main template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <ref></ref>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <references />." -->
+<!-- ''Examine the history of the creation and combat usage of the weapon in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the weapon and adding a block "/History" (example: https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Weapon-name)/History) and add a link to it here using the main template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <ref></ref>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <references />.'' -->
-In the last two years of the First World War a '''French Chef''' '''d’escadrons''' (Chief of squadrons) '''Filloux''', designed some light, high-velocity anti-tank weapons. Those being the 13 mm and a 17 mm anti-tank guns, with the latter being able to be mounted on carriage of the standard 37 mm SA 16 infantry support gun. While studies of the 17 mm anti-tank guns stopped with the conclusion of the First World War, they set a precedent for the concept of small, high-velocity anti-tank guns in the French military.
+In the last two years of the First World War a French Chef d'escadrons (Chief of squadrons), Filloux, designed some light, high-velocity anti-tank weapons. Those being the 13 mm and a 17 mm anti-tank guns, with the latter being able to be mounted on carriage of the standard 37 mm SA 16 infantry support gun. While studies of the 17 mm anti-tank guns stopped with the conclusion of the First World War, they set a precedent for the concept of small, high-velocity anti-tank guns in the French military.
-With the studies of the Filloux anti-tank rifle and gun discontinued, and similar anti-tank projects such as Delaunay-Belleville’s 20 mm “anti-tank machine-gun” remaining at prototype stage, the French Army had to rely on the '''37 mm''' '''TR SA 16''' gun to defeat enemy armor. From this gun, the '''FT's 37 mm SA 18''' gun was derived, however it was quickly proved to be highly inadequate against an army with vast amounts of armoured vehicles.
+With the studies of the Filloux anti-tank rifle and gun discontinued, and similar anti-tank projects such as Delaunay-Belleville's 20 mm anti-tank machine-gun remaining at prototype stage, the French Army had to rely on the 37 mm TR SA 16 gun to defeat enemy armour. From this gun, the FT's 37 mm SA18 gun was derived, however it was quickly proved to be highly inadequate against an army with vast amounts of armoured vehicles.
-'''Hotchkiss''', a giant of the French industry particularly when it came to light artillery pieces, offered an anti-tank gun to the French military as early as 1926, however it was not immediately adopted. The French Army waited until 1934, after extensive trials and perhaps out of fear caused by the rise of the Nazis in Germany to adopt Hotchkiss's gun.
+Hotchkiss, a giant of the French industry particularly when it came to light artillery pieces, offered an anti-tank gun to the French military as early as 1926, however it was not immediately adopted. The French Army waited until 1934, after extensive trials and perhaps out of fear caused by the rise of the Nazis in Germany to adopt Hotchkiss' gun.
-Hotchkiss’s anti-tank gun was a low-caliber one, even for the era. While most anti-tank guns of the 1930s exceeded 37 mm, the SA 34 fired 25 × 193.5 mm rimmed projectiles, which the French documents refer to as cartridges instead of shells. The gun had a 1,800 mm, 72-calibers long barrel, resulting in a high muzzle velocity of 950 m/s.
+Hotchkiss' anti-tank gun was a low-calibre one, even for the era. While most anti-tank guns of the 1930s exceeded 37 mm, the SA 34 fired 25 × 193.5 mm rimmed projectiles, which the French documents refer to as cartridges instead of shells. The gun had a 1,800 mm, 72-calibres long barrel, resulting in a high muzzle velocity of 950 m/s.
 While the main purpose of this gun was to be mounted on a carriage, which allowed the French troops to carry it with them, it also served well when it was attached to lightly armoured vehicles, such as the AMD. 35. Many variants were derived from the SA34, such as the '''SA35''' or even the '''SA-L 37'''.
 == Media ==
-<!-- "An excellent addition to the article would be a video guide, as well as screenshots from the game and photos." -->[[File:GarageImage AMR.35 ZT3.jpg|none|thumb|SA34 L/72 mounted on an AMR.35 ZT3]]
+<!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' -->
 == See also ==
-<!-- "Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:"
+<!-- ''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
-* "reference to the article about the variant of the cannon/machine gun;"
+* ''reference to the article about the variant of the cannon/machine gun;''
-* "references to approximate analogues by other nations and research trees." -->
+* ''references to approximate analogues by other nations and research trees.'' -->
 * [[25 mm/60 Type 96 (25 mm)]] - Japanese naval anti-aircraft cannon
 == External links ==
-<!-- "Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:"
+<!-- ''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
-* "topic on the official game forum;"
+* ''topic on the official game forum;''
-* "other literature." -->
+* ''other literature.'' -->
 * [[wikipedia:25_mm_Hotchkiss_anti-tank_gun|[Wikipedia] 25 mm Hotchkiss anti-tank gun]]

@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 <!-- ''Describe the shells that are available for the weapon and their features and purpose. If it concerns autocannons or machine guns, write about different ammo belts and what is inside (which types of shells).'' -->
-* '''Mle1934 TP (Ch.F)'''
+* '''Mle1934 TP (Ch.F)''': The only round available to the SA34 is an APC round that relies on kinetic energy and spalling to cause damage to targets.
-This is the only round available to the SA34. It is an APC round that relies on kinetic energy and spalling to cause damage to targets. Its mass is 310 g and the velocity of the round is roughly 950 m/s, which hits its target with the penetration power of up to 71 mm.
+{{:{{PAGENAME}}/Ammunition|Mle1934 TP (Ch.F)}}
 === Comparison with analogues ===

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- "Write an introduction to the article in 2-3 small paragraphs. Briefly tell us about the history of the development and combat using the weaponry and also about its features. Compile a list of air, ground, or naval vehicles that feature this weapon system in the game." -->
-During the First World War, France together with Britain were the most important users and producers of armored cars. Starting from 1916, when France started to produce its first tanks, numerous studies were launched to properly understand armour and how to effectively defeat it, mainly so that the French troops had an easier time dealing with armored vehicles.
+During the First World War, France together with Britain were the most important users and producers of armoured cars. Starting from 1916, when France started to produce its first tanks, numerous studies were launched to properly understand armour and how to effectively defeat it, mainly so that the French troops had an easier time dealing with armoured vehicles.
-A great number of the 25 mm SA 34 cannons were developed in the 1930s to fulfill a variety of roles. A version used in armored vehicles existed, under the designation '''25 mm SA 35'''. This version of the gun was further shortened so that it could fit into smaller armored vehicles. This variant was then assigned the designation '''L/47.2''' instead of '''L/72'''.
+A great number of the 25 mm SA 34 cannons were developed in the 1930s to fulfill a variety of roles. A version used in armoured vehicles existed, under the designation '''25 mm SA 35'''. This version of the gun was further shortened so that it could fit into smaller armoured vehicles. This variant was then assigned the designation '''L/47.2''' instead of '''L/72'''.
 === Vehicles equipped with this weapon ===
@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 The SA34 L/72 is a cannon which takes shells of the 25 x 193.5 mm calibre, however only the APC round is available. Reload rate is 3.9 seconds, which translates to 15 rounds a minute. It has an effective range of 1,800 m. Length of the cannon is 1,800 mm.
-<!-- "Describe the shells that are available for the weapon and their features and purpose. If it concerns autocannons or machine guns, write about different ammo belts and what is inside (which types of shells)." -->* '''Mle1934 TP (Ch.F)'''
+=== Available ammunition ===
 This is the only round available to the SA34. It is an APC round that relies on kinetic energy and spalling to cause damage to targets. Its mass is 310 g and the velocity of the round is roughly 950 m/s, which hits its target with the penetration power of up to 71 mm.
@@ Line 32: / Line 35: @@
 !Ammunition
 !Maximum Penetration
 |-
 |▅
@@ Line 47: / Line 41: @@
 | 115 kg
 | 220 - 260 RPM
-| APT Belt
+| APT Belt <br> HEIT Belt
 | 55 mm
 |}
@@ Line 58: / Line 51: @@
 There are two main ways of using the SA34;
-'''Flanking'''
+;Flanking
 If one is using the [[AMD.35]], speed allows for quick repositioning but also more importantly, huge flanking potential on some maps. The user can try to get around to the hostile team's sides or rear. Due to being an armoured car, protection is seriously lacking so one should avoid direct confrontation at all times. Taking out critical modules or crew mates such as the cannon or the gunner of the hostile vehicle is a sure way of killing an enemy rather quick. However, if one is playing against a vehicle that has access to .50 calibre machine guns, they should take extra precautions and disable it if necessary as a quick burst of it will destroy the user rather quick due to the AMD.35 only having 15 mm front and 10 mm side armour.
-'''Sniping'''
+;Sniping
 If one is using the [[AMR.35 ZT3]], it is highly recommended to not engage in direct confrontations but rather to find a good vantage point where the user can see most of the territory without exposing themselves all that much. The user lacks armour and they only have 2 crew mates, so protection and likelihood of surviving more than a single shot is highly unlikely. The armour is even worse than on the AMD.35 as the front and side armor is just 13 mm thick, while the rear is only 10 mm thick allowing even 7.62 mm bullets to penetrate and damage your engine or setting you ablaze.
 === Pros and cons ===
-<!-- "Summarise and briefly evaluate the weaponry in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark pros and cons as a list."
+<!-- "Summarise and briefly evaluate the weaponry in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark pros and cons as a list." -->
 '''Pros:'''
@@ Line 85: / Line 77: @@
 In the last two years of the First World War a '''French Chef''' '''d’escadrons''' (Chief of squadrons) '''Filloux''', designed some light, high-velocity anti-tank weapons. Those being the 13 mm and a 17 mm anti-tank guns, with the latter being able to be mounted on carriage of the standard 37 mm SA 16 infantry support gun. While studies of the 17 mm anti-tank guns stopped with the conclusion of the First World War, they set a precedent for the concept of small, high-velocity anti-tank guns in the French military.
-With the studies of the Filloux anti-tank rifle and gun discontinued, and similar anti-tank projects such as Delaunay-Belleville’s 20 mm “anti-tank machine-gun” remaining at prototype stage, the French Army had to rely on the '''37 mm''' '''TR SA 16''' gun to defeat enemy armor. From this gun, the '''FT's 37 mm SA 18''' gun was derived, however it was quickly proved to be highly inadequate against an army with vast amounts of armored vehicles.
+With the studies of the Filloux anti-tank rifle and gun discontinued, and similar anti-tank projects such as Delaunay-Belleville’s 20 mm “anti-tank machine-gun” remaining at prototype stage, the French Army had to rely on the '''37 mm''' '''TR SA 16''' gun to defeat enemy armor. From this gun, the '''FT's 37 mm SA 18''' gun was derived, however it was quickly proved to be highly inadequate against an army with vast amounts of armoured vehicles.
 '''Hotchkiss''', a giant of the French industry particularly when it came to light artillery pieces, offered an anti-tank gun to the French military as early as 1926, however it was not immediately adopted. The French Army waited until 1934, after extensive trials and perhaps out of fear caused by the rise of the Nazis in Germany to adopt Hotchkiss's gun.
@@ Line 98: / Line 90: @@
 == See also ==
 <!-- "Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:"
 * "reference to the article about the variant of the cannon/machine gun;"
 * "references to approximate analogues by other nations and research trees." -->
 * [[25 mm/60 Type 96 (25 mm)]] - Japanese naval anti-aircraft cannon
 == External links ==
 <!-- "Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:"
 * "topic on the official game forum;"
 * "other literature." -->
-* [https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2-france-canon-de-25mm-semi-automatique-modele-1934/ <nowiki>[Tanks Encyclopedia] Canon De 25 mm</nowiki>]
+* [[wikipedia:25_mm_Hotchkiss_anti-tank_gun|[Wikipedia] 25 mm Hotchkiss anti-tank gun]]
-* [https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_l%C3%A9ger_de_25_antichar_SA-L_mod%C3%A8le_1934 <nowiki>[Wikipedia.fr] 25 mm SA 34</nowiki>]
+* [https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2-france-canon-de-25mm-semi-automatique-modele-1934/ <nowiki>[Tanks Encyclopedia]</nowiki> Canon de 25mm Semi-Automatique Modèle 1934 (25mm SA 34)]
 {{France tank cannons}}
 [[Category:Tank cannons]]

@@ Line 91: / Line 91: @@
 Hotchkiss’s anti-tank gun was a low-caliber one, even for the era. While most anti-tank guns of the 1930s exceeded 37 mm, the SA 34 fired 25 × 193.5 mm rimmed projectiles, which the French documents refer to as cartridges instead of shells. The gun had a 1,800 mm, 72-calibers long barrel, resulting in a high muzzle velocity of 950 m/s.
-While the main purpose of this gun was to be mounted on carriage, which allowed the French troops to carry it with them, it also served well when it was attached to lightly armoured vehicles, such as the AMD. 35. Many variants were derived from the SA34, such as the '''SA35''' or even the '''SA-L 37'''.
+While the main purpose of this gun was to be mounted on a carriage, which allowed the French troops to carry it with them, it also served well when it was attached to lightly armoured vehicles, such as the AMD. 35. Many variants were derived from the SA34, such as the '''SA35''' or even the '''SA-L 37'''.
 == Media ==

@@ Line 35: / Line 35: @@
 |▄
 |[[Oerlikon KBA (25 mm)]]
-|1970s
+| 1970s
-|_______
+| _______
-|600 - 700 RPM
+| 600 - 700 RPM
-|M792
+| M792
 M791
-|81 mm
+| 81 mm
 |-
 |▅
 |[[25 mm/60 Type 96 (25 mm)]]
-|1935
+| 1935
-|115 kg
+| 115 kg
-|220 - 260 RPM
+| 220 - 260 RPM
-|APT Belt
+| APT Belt
 HEIT Belt
-|55 mm
+| 55 mm
 |}
@@ Line 74: / Line 74: @@
 * Good penetration for a low tier French vehicle, being up to 71 mm
 * Fast reload rate, only 3.9 seconds long
 '''Cons:'''
@@ Line 82: / Line 80: @@
 * Creates below average spalling, one hit kills are inconsistent
 * Can only carry 48 rounds in total
 == History ==

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:13, 14 August 2022
(No difference)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Description ==
-''Write an introduction to the article in 2-3 small paragraphs. Briefly tell about the history of the development and combat using of the weaponry and also about its features. Make an air or ground vehicles list on which this weapon is installed in our game.''
+''Write an introduction to the article in 2-3 small paragraphs. Briefly tell us about the history of the development and combat using the weaponry and also about its features. Make an air or ground vehicles list on which this weapon is installed in our game.''
 === Vehicles equipped with this weapon ===
 == General info ==
@@ Line 8: / Line 10: @@
 === Available shells ===
-''Describe the shells that are available for the cannon and their features and purpose. If it concerns autocannons or machine guns, so write about different ammo belts and what is inside (which types of shells).''
+''Describe the shells that are available for the cannon and their features and purpose. If it concerns autocannons or machine guns, write about different ammo belts and what is inside (which types of shells).''
 === Comparison with analogues ===
 ''Give a comparative description of cannons/machine guns, that have firepower equal to these type of weapons.''
-== Usage in the battles ==
+== Usage in battles ==
 ''Describe the cannon/machine gun in the game - its distinctive features, tactics of usage against the main opponents. Please don't write a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but give the reader food for thought.''
@@ Line 25: / Line 27: @@
+*
-== Historical part ==
+== History ==
-''Examine the history of the creation and combat usage of this weapon. If the historical reference turns out to be a big one, take it into a separate article and add a link to it by using the "main" template. In the end be sure to include references to sources.''
+''Examine the history of the creation and combat usage of this weapon. If the historical reference turns out to be too big, take it to a separate article, taking a link to an article about the vehicle and adding a block "/ History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(weapon-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article.''
 == Media ==
 ''An excellent addition to the article would be a video guide, as well as screenshots from the game and photos.''
-== Read also ==
+== See also ==
-''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example,''
+''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
 * ''reference to the article about the variant of the cannon/machine gun;''
 * ''references to approximate analogues by other nations and research trees.''
-== Sources ==
+== External links ==
 ''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
-* ''topic on the official game forum''
+* ''topic on the official game forum;''
-* ''page on the Wikipedia''
+* ''encyclopedia page on weapon;''
-* ''page on aircraft or ground forces encyclopedia''
+* ''other literature.''
 {{France tank cannons}}
 [[Category:Tank cannons]]