Khrizantema-S - Revision history

U103691029: /* Main armament */ Autoloader

2024-04-17T01:50:19Z

‎Main armament: Autoloader

U38088265: /* Description */

2024-03-11T13:09:26Z

‎Description

U81436767: /* Description */ New Description Project

2024-03-10T17:35:12Z

‎Description: New Description Project

U44629479: Edits

2023-06-24T17:42:13Z

Edits

U38088265: /* Ammunition */ Converted to transclusion

2023-01-29T17:03:09Z

‎Ammunition: Converted to transclusion

U42773747: /* Radars */ i think that was the last piece i didn't notice.

2022-12-23T15:56:01Z

‎Radars: i think that was the last piece i didn't notice.

U42773747: there are some pieces of text that i did not convert or remove on my first skim-through.

2022-12-22T16:33:10Z

there are some pieces of text that i did not convert or remove on my first skim-through.

U42773747: basically, the mechanic of using launcher as a primary weapon was removed, and guidance was additionally nerfed on top of that so you cannot aim directly at enemies behind a hill, but introduced another "feature" where bino does that... basically rip.

2022-12-10T15:17:33Z

basically, the mechanic of using launcher as a primary weapon was removed, and guidance was additionally nerfed on top of that so you cannot aim directly at enemies behind a hill, but introduced another "feature" where bino does that... basically rip.

Show changes

U79942984: Wrote intro.

2022-08-31T17:35:10Z

Wrote intro.

U38088265: Edits

2022-05-06T15:07:26Z

Edits

Show changes

@@ Line 96: / Line 96: @@
 {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 |-
-! colspan="5" | [[9M123]] missile || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
+! colspan="5" | [[9M123]] missile || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || Reloading rate (seconds)
 |-
 ! Mode !! Capacity (Belt) !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
 ! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
-! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
+!Autoloader
 |-
 ! ''Arcade''
-| rowspan="2" | 16 (2) || rowspan="2" | -5°/+15° || rowspan="2" | ±85° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 35.2 || 48.8 || 59.2 || 65.5 || 69.7 || rowspan="2" | 15.00 || rowspan="2" | 15.00 || rowspan="2" | 15.00 || rowspan="2" | 15.00
+| rowspan="2" | 16 (2) || rowspan="2" | -5°/+15° || rowspan="2" | ±85° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 35.2 || 48.8 || 59.2 || 65.5 || 69.7 || rowspan="2" | 15.00
 |-
 ! ''Realistic''

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-A few years after the fall of the USSR, efforts were restarted from the soviet days to develop an anti-tank guided missile with dual-control modes. The program was officially restarted and spearheaded in 1996 by the Konstruktorskoye Byuro Mashynostroyenia Engineering Design Bureau, or KBM for short. The project resulted in the 9M123 Khrizantema missile, which was available in both Laser-beam riding and radar-beam riding variants. The design philosophy behind this was for new attack helicopters being designed during the 90s, such as the [[Ka-52]] and the [[Mi-28N]], to be able to launch to seperate 9M123 missiles at two seperate targets in different locations; one guided by radar while the other is guided with conventional laser optics. However, due to multiple reasons, chiefly of which were the delays and budget cuts in developement of the Ka-52 and Mi-28N respectively, a new cheaper platform was devised for the 9M123 missile. This cheap platform was envisioned through a heavily modified version of the existing [[BMP-3]] chassis, named the '''9P157-2 Khrizantema-S'''. The Khrizantema-S launcher vehicle was hastily designed with simplicity but effectiveness in mind, touted by the manufacturer with the promise that ''"Only three defending [Khrizantema-S] tank destroyers are able to engage 14 attacking tanks and destroy at least sixty percent of the attacking force".'' The 9P157-2 Khrizantema-S had a few developemental delays and teething issues during testing, which were not ironed out for a few years, allowing it to finally enter service in 2005. Trials for an upgraded "Khrizantema-SM" version with better radar, electronics, and upgraded variants of the Khrizantema missile completed trials officially in 2016, although it is not completely known if a full production order was issued for the upgraded model.
+A few years after the fall of the USSR, efforts were restarted to develop an anti-tank guided missile with dual-control modes. The program was officially restarted and spearheaded in 1996 by the Konstruktorskoye Byuro Mashynostroyenia Engineering Design Bureau, or KBM for short. The project resulted in the 9M123 Khrizantema missile, which was available in both laser-beam riding and radar-beam riding variants. The design philosophy behind this was for new attack helicopters being designed during the '90s, such as the [[Ka-52]] and the [[Mi-28N]], to be able to launch two separate 9M123 missiles at two separate targets in different locations; one guided by radar while the other is guided with conventional laser optics. However, due to multiple reasons, chiefly delays and budget cuts during development of the Ka-52 and Mi-28N respectively, a new cheaper platform was devised for the 9M123 missile. This cheap platform was envisioned through a heavily modified version of the existing [[BMP-3]] chassis, named the '''9P157-2 Khrizantema-S'''. The Khrizantema-S launcher vehicle was hastily designed with simplicity but effectiveness in mind, touted by the manufacturer with the promise that ''"Only three defending [Khrizantema-S] tank destroyers are able to engage 14 attacking tanks and destroy at least sixty percent of the attacking force".'' The 9P157-2 Khrizantema-S had a few developmental delays and teething issues during testing, which were not ironed out for a few years, allowing it to finally enter service in 2005. Trials for an upgraded "Khrizantema-SM" version with better radar, electronics, and upgraded variants of the Khrizantema missile were officially completed in 2016, although it is not known if a full production order was issued for the upgraded model.
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet tank destroyer missile-carrier introduced in [[Update "Starfighters"]], essentially being an amphibious ATGM carrier based on the chassis of the familiar [[BMP-3]]. The Khrizantema-S is the spiritual successor to the previous [[Shturm-S]], which was also an amphibious ATGM carrier based on the chassis of the MT-LB that required good positioning behind lines to perform well ingame. However, unlike the Shturm, the Khrizantema-S is equipped with a ground-based radar system for its 9M123 "Khrizantema" (Chrysanthemum) missiles, which can be guided by both radar and laser beams. Despite its delicate name, the 9M123 is the most powerful Russian ATGM in War Thunder with a tandem warhead penetrating 1,200 mm of RHA and a fast flight speed of 550 m/s. However the platform also has many drawbacks: the armour protection is very poor and it has no gun armament whatsoever, making it a specialist vehicle that requires caution and relies on teammate support. The Khrizantema-S is best played as a back-line  sniper with its incredible optics and radar to pick off targets with its fast and punchy missiles. Effectiveness of this vehicle will rely on player's knowledge of the terrain along with anticipation of "choke points" and hot-spots on certain maps.
+Introduced in [[Update "Starfighters"]], the '''{{Specs|name}}''' is essentially an amphibious ATGM carrier based on the chassis of the familiar [[BMP-3]]. It is the spiritual successor to the previous [[Shturm-S]], which was also an amphibious ATGM carrier based on the chassis of the MT-LB that requires good positioning behind lines to perform well. However, unlike the Shturm, the Khrizantema-S is equipped with a ground-based radar system for its 9M123 "Khrizantema" (Chrysanthemum) missiles, which can be guided by both radar and laser beams. Despite its delicate name, the 9M123 is the most powerful Russian ATGM in War Thunder with a tandem warhead penetrating 1,200 mm of RHA and a fast flight speed of 550 m/s. However the platform also has many drawbacks: the armour protection is very poor and it has no gun armament whatsoever, making it a specialist vehicle that requires caution and relies on teammate support. The Khrizantema-S is best played as a back-line  sniper with its incredible optics and radar to pick off targets with its fast and punchy missiles. Effectiveness of this vehicle will rely on player's knowledge of the terrain along with anticipation of "choke points" and hot-spots on certain maps.
 == General info ==
@@ Line 195: / Line 195: @@
 If you have the Dozer Blade modification, you can try to reinforce a firing position in some unusual spot. But, whatever you choose, the launcher must be able to aim straight at the enemy tank (even if you fire from behind cover, the radar cannot lock beyond launcher aiming angles), so you are limited to only flat ground. Ideally, you want to be standing right next to your cover, as otherwise enemy might accidentally hit the hull by flinging shells, ATGM or even SAM over terrain (although radar or launcher hit would be equally fatal, it is slightly more difficult to pull off).
 After taking the position and cleaning it up for missile launching, wait for the enemies to appear. It won't take long, since many players around rank VII have fast tanks. After seeing one, enter binoculars mode, press fire button to turn turret towards enemy, adjust aim, then try to lock onto enemy tank. Entering binocular scope is necessary to ensure that the radar is actually aimed at your target and not somewhere else.
 Upon locking onto tank, enter sniper scope, aim above your cover and fire. If the tank in question is some sort of ATGM light tank or SPAA, you can immediately double tap them, even if you are generally sure of your aim, as to avoid being shot back into the launcher (which can be fatal if they use default belts or ATGM). Both missiles can be guided at the same time, so the second shot is not entirely wasted and can be redirected into the next tank.

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Starfighters"]].
+A few years after the fall of the USSR, efforts were restarted from the soviet days to develop an anti-tank guided missile with dual-control modes. The program was officially restarted and spearheaded in 1996 by the Konstruktorskoye Byuro Mashynostroyenia Engineering Design Bureau, or KBM for short. The project resulted in the 9M123 Khrizantema missile, which was available in both Laser-beam riding and radar-beam riding variants. The design philosophy behind this was for new attack helicopters being designed during the 90s, such as the [[Ka-52]] and the [[Mi-28N]], to be able to launch to seperate 9M123 missiles at two seperate targets in different locations; one guided by radar while the other is guided with conventional laser optics. However, due to multiple reasons, chiefly of which were the delays and budget cuts in developement of the Ka-52 and Mi-28N respectively, a new cheaper platform was devised for the 9M123 missile. This cheap platform was envisioned through a heavily modified version of the existing [[BMP-3]] chassis, named the '''9P157-2 Khrizantema-S'''. The Khrizantema-S launcher vehicle was hastily designed with simplicity but effectiveness in mind, touted by the manufacturer with the promise that ''"Only three defending [Khrizantema-S] tank destroyers are able to engage 14 attacking tanks and destroy at least sixty percent of the attacking force".'' The 9P157-2 Khrizantema-S had a few developemental delays and teething issues during testing, which were not ironed out for a few years, allowing it to finally enter service in 2005. Trials for an upgraded "Khrizantema-SM" version with better radar, electronics, and upgraded variants of the Khrizantema missile completed trials officially in 2016, although it is not completely known if a full production order was issued for the upgraded model.
-The Khrizantema-S is an amphibious ATGM carrier based on the chassis of the [[BMP-3]] IFV. In some sense it is the spiritual successor to the previous [[Shturm-S]], which was an amphibious ATGM carrier based on the chassis of the MT-LB, but the Khrizantema-S is far more modern. It is equipped with a ground-based radar system for its titular 9M123 "Khrizantema" (Chrysanthemum) missiles, which can be guided by both radar and laser beams. Despite its delicate name, the 9M123 is the most powerful Russian ATGM in War Thunder with a tandem warhead penetrating 1,200 mm of RHA and a fast flight speed of 550 m/s. It suffices to say that a Khrizantema-S in a good position is a deadly tank hunter capable of obliterating even top-tier MBTs. However the platform also has many drawbacks: the armour protection is very poor and it has no gun armament whatsoever, making it a specialist vehicle that requires caution and relies on teammate support.
+The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet tank destroyer missile-carrier introduced in [[Update "Starfighters"]], essentially being an amphibious ATGM carrier based on the chassis of the familiar [[BMP-3]]. The Khrizantema-S is the spiritual successor to the previous [[Shturm-S]], which was also an amphibious ATGM carrier based on the chassis of the MT-LB that required good positioning behind lines to perform well ingame. However, unlike the Shturm, the Khrizantema-S is equipped with a ground-based radar system for its 9M123 "Khrizantema" (Chrysanthemum) missiles, which can be guided by both radar and laser beams. Despite its delicate name, the 9M123 is the most powerful Russian ATGM in War Thunder with a tandem warhead penetrating 1,200 mm of RHA and a fast flight speed of 550 m/s. However the platform also has many drawbacks: the armour protection is very poor and it has no gun armament whatsoever, making it a specialist vehicle that requires caution and relies on teammate support. The Khrizantema-S is best played as a back-line  sniper with its incredible optics and radar to pick off targets with its fast and punchy missiles. Effectiveness of this vehicle will rely on player's knowledge of the terrain along with anticipation of "choke points" and hot-spots on certain maps.
 == General info ==
@@ Line 185: / Line 185: @@
 * Is it necessary to rush something down to win, at least right now? If so, is enemy position vulnerable to the attacks of Khrizantema-S and are you comfortable enough with the weapon controls to do it?
 * Are there close air support planes in this round? If so, are you good with hitting them without any help?
 [[File:Khrizanetma-s firing over cover.jpg|thumb|right|Although it is clunky, radar can still allow to hit enemy tanks over a hill. Do not expose the hull for it is generally unnecessary.]]
 If any of these questions are a concern to you, it is probably better to spawn a different tank. Against proximity missiles, some medium tanks with ERA on the turret might be better. In some general combat situations, even the Shturm-S might be better due to its anti-air capability and lesser vulnerability to HEAT, but it has to use HE to fight NERA tanks and has to reload more often.

@@ Line 230: / Line 230: @@
 * Launcher and radar are easy to hit when hull down, allowing hostile tanks to explode the hull anyway, as it counts as open-topped
 * Very vulnerable to assaults by strike aircraft and have no efficient way of fighting them
-* 9M123 ATGMs have inferior speed when compared to the missiles of [[ADATS]] and SAMs, making them inferior in missile duels
+* 9M123 ATGMs have inferior speed when compared to surface-to-air missiles, making them inferior in missile duels
 * Launcher can be hard to aim manually
 * Missiles have poor vertical manoeuvrability

@@ Line 111: / Line 111: @@
 ==== Ammunition ====
-{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
+{{:9M123/Ammunition|9M123, 9M123F}}
 ==== [[Ammo racks]] ====

@@ Line 163: / Line 163: @@
 {{Notice|The Khrizantema-S's radar can not only lock onto aerial targets but also search for and lock onto ground targets, and it can also lock onto targets behind smoke and trees, and in the dark, even if the user cannot see them. Keep both of these facts in mind when using it.}}
-The Khrizantema-S is equipped with a single search and tracking radar, mounted to the left of missile launchers. The radar system is incapable of scanning while tracking, and can only lock on targets within a 20° arc in direction the aiming device is pointed at. This means, that if the operator switches "primary weapon" towards the launcher itself, the radar will continue scanning in the same direction, while the gunner aims elsewhere, which could be used defensively in some niche scenarios.
+The Khrizantema-S is equipped with a single search and tracking radar, mounted to the left of missile launchers. The radar dish follows the targeting device and only scans in chosen direction. The radar system is incapable of scanning while tracking, and can only lock on targets within a 20° arc in direction the aiming device is pointed at. This limitation persists after locking on - if the user turns the sight too far away from the target, the lock will automatically break.
-The radar dish follows the targeting device and only scans in chosen direction. However, once locked, it can turn up to 85° degrees in either direction in front of the tank, continuing to track its target as long as the user doesn't turn the laser designator further than 15° away. It is much easier to lock onto tanks by using binoculars, as the tank will temporarily "aim" straight at the tanks through cover, even if it can't really guide missiles with laser there.
+It is much easier to lock onto tanks by using binoculars and occasionally pressing "fire", as the tank will temporarily "aim" straight at the tanks through cover, ignoring targeting device limitations (as it can't really guide missiles with laser there and will derail the radar as well), ensuring that the radar tries to scan in that exact direction. When "lock on" is pressed, the radar will attempt to lock onto targets straight in the middle of binocular or sniper view, regardless of their vertical position.
-Vertically, the radar also has rather limited angles at which it can lock and track. It also seems to rely more on hull position rather than aiming device when aiming at the sky. For that reason, it is better not to rely on search mode whatsoever and try to lock onto targets manually (by pressing the lock-on button in sniper mode while aiming at the target) to see if the tank needs to be moved, or it's just the radar being picky and the carrier needs to be angled upwards.
+Vertically, the radar also has rather limited angles at which it can lock and track, being very similar to limitations of the launcher itself. It also seems to rely more on hull position rather than aiming device when aiming at the sky. For that reason, it is better not to rely on search mode whatsoever and try to lock onto targets manually (by pressing the lock-on button in binocular mode while aiming at the target) to see if the tank needs to be moved, or it's just the radar being picky and the carrier needs to be moved.
 The radar will generally refuse to lock if the target is behind a tree or something solid, which means you will not waste a shot by just relying on it. However, it will often fail to lock on to a turret of a tank (which could be hit resulting in target destruction), so radar suggestions are not absolute and manual aim is not to be discarded.

@@ Line 223: / Line 223: @@
 It is possible, that the second question puzzled you, as there are almost no sniping spots in this game, which could be normally used by the Khrizantema-S in AB without an immediate threat of being hit by a HEAT projectile (leading to an instant explosion due to a hole in the roof). This is very true due to launcher being exposed all the time, even before it can fire on targets. To avoid being instantly destroyed, it is necessary to use radar lock as much as possible.
-At the very start of the match, turn your radar off and switch to the launcher by pressing "select primary weapon". After this, drive straight towards some flat spot that can cover carrier's hull completely. You want to hold the line until the very last missile with minimal movement. The line might be the front, which you can observe from behind an unusually big rock or a short flat hill, it could be a plateau, as it might allow you to use the radar to fire down. In general, you want to have as little vegetation in your way as possible.
+At the very start of the match, turn your radar off and drive straight towards some flat spot that can cover carrier's hull completely. You want to hold the line until the very last missile with minimal movement. The line might be the front, which you can observe from behind an unusually big rock or a short flat hill, it could be a plateau, as it might allow you to use the radar to fire down. In general, you want to have as little vegetation in your way as possible. If using a hill, avoid taking positions too close to the enemy tanks, as close range combat is complicated, especially against ERA tanks.
 If you have the Dozer Blade modification, you can try to reinforce a firing position in some unusual spot. But, whatever you choose, the launcher must be able to aim straight at the enemy tank (even if you fire from behind cover, the radar cannot lock beyond launcher aiming angles), so you are limited to only flat ground. Ideally, you want to be standing right next to your cover, as otherwise enemy might accidentally hit the hull by flinging shells, ATGM or even SAM over terrain (although radar or launcher hit would be equally fatal, it is slightly more difficult to pull off).