Ferdinand - Revision history

U44629479: Undo revision 193771 by U145582178 (talk)

2024-10-21T15:38:01Z

Undo revision 193771 by U145582178 (talk)

U145582178 at 10:37, 21 October 2024

2024-10-21T10:37:19Z

U2126463: /* Description */ resubmitting again after it got deleted by AleJefe

2024-05-27T14:48:12Z

‎Description: resubmitting again after it got deleted by AleJefe

U120313908: /* Description */ New Description Project

2024-05-26T03:07:18Z

‎Description: New Description Project

U2126463: /* Description */

2024-05-21T23:51:48Z

‎Description

U104930763: /* Combat usage */ +link

2023-12-31T12:08:29Z

‎Combat usage: +link

U17686967: "kph" has been updated to "km/h, " a correct abbreviation of speed in the metric system.

2023-06-05T18:50:59Z

"kph" has been updated to "km/h, " a correct abbreviation of speed in the metric system.

U38088265: /* Ammunition */ Converted to transclusion

2023-02-02T22:57:59Z

‎Ammunition: Converted to transclusion

U44629479: /* Media */ Removed dead video

2023-01-10T21:39:53Z

‎Media: Removed dead video

U38088265: /* In-game description */ Reformatted

2022-11-20T15:27:22Z

‎In-game description: Reformatted

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 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
 The '''{{Specs|name}}''' ([[Abbreviations#.28DE.29_Sd.Kfz._Index|Sd.Kfz. Index:]] '''Sd.Kfz. 184''') was a German heavy tank destroyer. The developement of Ferdinand sparked from the competition between Porsche and Henschel regarding the Tiger heavy tank. Porsche thought his prototype would be chosen over the Henschel one, so he decided to produce approximately 100 chassis of the VK 45.01 that would later become the Tiger I. However, Henschel prototype was chosen instead, and it was decided to use the already manufactured Porsche hulls as a base of a heavy tank destroyer, armed with the newly developed Krupp PaK 43 8,8 cm gun. The Ferdinand was designed to supplement light tank destroyers such as Marder III in offensive role. Due to the petrol-electric transmission used, the conversion was quite simple with the engines moving into the space forward in the hull where turret was previously installed. Behind the engines, a casemate was made, housing the gun and four out of the six crew members. The engines had very high fuel consumption and the entire vehicle was plagued with reliability issues. However due to the very strong frontal armour, the Ferdinand had approximately 10:1 kill to loss ratio highest of all tank destroyers used in the war. 91 examples were made, and they all saw action on the Eastern front at the Battle of Kursk and also in Italy. Usage at Kursk shown that the Ferdinand was vulnerable to infantry attacks due to no secondary armament, which lead to modifying of the remaining 48 surviving vehicles. The upgraded vehicles were renamed to Elefant.

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 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
 The '''{{Specs|name}}''' ([[Abbreviations#.28DE.29_Sd.Kfz._Index|Sd.Kfz. Index:]] '''Sd.Kfz. 184''') was a German heavy tank destroyer. The developement of Ferdinand sparked from the competition between Porsche and Henschel regarding the Tiger heavy tank. Porsche thought his prototype would be chosen over the Henschel one, so he decided to produce approximately 100 chassis of the VK 45.01 that would later become the Tiger I. However, Henschel prototype was chosen instead, and it was decided to use the already manufactured Porsche hulls as a base of a heavy tank destroyer, armed with the newly developed Krupp PaK 43 8,8 cm gun. The Ferdinand was designed to supplement light tank destroyers such as Marder III in offensive role. Due to the petrol-electric transmission used, the conversion was quite simple with the engines moving into the space forward in the hull where turret was previously installed. Behind the engines, a casemate was made, housing the gun and four out of the six crew members. The engines had very high fuel consumption and the entire vehicle was plagued with reliability issues. However due to the very strong frontal armour, the Ferdinand had approximately 10:1 kill to loss ratio highest of all tank destroyers used in the war. 91 examples were made, and they all saw action on the Eastern front at the Battle of Kursk and also in Italy. Usage at Kursk shown that the Ferdinand was vulnerable to infantry attacks due to no secondary armament, which lead to modifying of the remaining 48 surviving vehicles. The upgraded vehicles were renamed to Elefant.

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''' ([[Abbreviations#.28DE.29_Sd.Kfz._Index|Sd.Kfz. Index:]] '''Sd.Kfz. 184''') was a result of the competition between Porsche and Henschel for the production of the Tiger Heavy Tank. Due to Porsches overconfidence, they produced around 100 chassis of their prototype for the Tiger I, however, after the trials, their design was not chosen. Thus, with the need to find use for those chassis, Porsche designed the Ferdinand, a heavy tank destroyer meant to deliver higher firepower than the Marder III light tank destroyer already on service. The tank suffered a large number of issues, like a very high fuel consumption, poor mobility and plenty of reliability issues. But despite of that, the Ferdinand holds an impressive record in battle, with 91 units made and a 10:1 Kill-Loss ratio. After the battle of Kursk, the surviving Ferdinands were modified with secondary armament and other characteristics, they were renamed to Elefant.
+The '''{{Specs|name}}''' ([[Abbreviations#.28DE.29_Sd.Kfz._Index|Sd.Kfz. Index:]] '''Sd.Kfz. 184''') was a German heavy tank destroyer. The developement of Ferdinand sparked from the competition between Porsche and Henschel regarding the Tiger heavy tank. Porsche thought his prototype would be chosen over the Henschel one, so he decided to produce approximately 100 chassis of the VK 45.01 that would later become the Tiger I. However, Henschel prototype was chosen instead, and it was decided to use the already manufactured Porsche hulls as a base of a heavy tank destroyer, armed with the newly developed Krupp PaK 43 8,8 cm gun. The Ferdinand was designed to supplement light tank destroyers such as Marder III in offensive role. Due to the petrol-electric transmission used, the conversion was quite simple with the engines moving into the space forward in the hull where turret was previously installed. Behind the engines, a casemate was made, housing the gun and four out of the six crew members. The engines had very high fuel consumption and the entire vehicle was plagued with reliability issues. However due to the very strong frontal armour, the Ferdinand had approximately 10:1 kill to loss ratio highest of all tank destroyers used in the war. 91 examples were made, and they all saw action on the Eastern front at the Battle of Kursk and also in Italy. Usage at Kursk shown that the Ferdinand was vulnerable to infantry attacks due to no secondary armament, which lead to modifying of the remaining 48 surviving vehicles. The upgraded vehicles were renamed to Elefant.
-It was introduced during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. It is a formidable armoured tank destroyer design, the Ferdinand can withstand most frontal shots when faced from a long distance, yet deliver a devastating attack with its 88 mm cannon. The Ferdinand is a great example of a heavy tank destroyer, well armoured, and with poor mobility. With an 88mm cannon, it should be used as a sniper behind allied tanks, hills or any sort of terrain that exposes mainly the front of your chassis, since this part is the most protected and a penetration here, is less likely to set the ammunition on fire or knock out most of the crew.
+The Ferdinand was introduced during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. The Ferdinand is armed with very powerful 8.8 cm cannon, allowing to destroy nearly any opponent at distance over 1 km, while the thick armour making the Ferdinand a very tough to penetrate from the front. However, the 200 mm frontal armour does not reach to the frontal turret cheeks which are only 80 mm thick. A hit into these will detonate the ammunition and cause fatal explosion. Due to its weight and size, Ferdinand is also not very mobile, it should be used as a sniper from behind ally tanks or to hold choke points as it can withstand direct frontal fire from majority of the enemies it sees in battles.
 == General info ==

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 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''' ([[Abbreviations#.28DE.29_Sd.Kfz._Index|Sd.Kfz. Index:]] '''Sd.Kfz. 184''') was a German heavy tank destroyer. The developement of Ferdinand sparked from the competition between Porsche and Henschel regarding the Tiger heavy tank. Porsche thought his prototype would be chosen over the Henschel one, so he decided to produce approximately 100 chassis of the VK 45.01 that would later become the Tiger I. However, Henschel prototype was chosen instead, and it was decided to use the already manufactured Porsche hulls as a base of a heavy tank destroyer, armed with the newly developed Krupp PaK 43 8,8 cm gun. The Ferdinand was designed to supplement light tank destroyers such as Marder III in offensive role. Due to the petrol-electric transmission used, the conversion was quite simple with the engines moving into the space forward in the hull where turret was previously installed. Behind the engines, a casemate was made, housing the gun and
+The '''{{Specs|name}}''' ([[Abbreviations#.28DE.29_Sd.Kfz._Index|Sd.Kfz. Index:]] '''Sd.Kfz. 184''') was a result of the competition between Porsche and Henschel for the production of the Tiger Heavy Tank. Due to Porsches overconfidence, they produced around 100 chassis of their prototype for the Tiger I, however, after the trials, their design was not chosen. Thus, with the need to find use for those chassis, Porsche designed the Ferdinand, a heavy tank destroyer meant to deliver higher firepower than the Marder III light tank destroyer already on service. The tank suffered a large number of issues, like a very high fuel consumption, poor mobility and plenty of reliability issues. But despite of that, the Ferdinand holds an impressive record in battle, with 91 units made and a 10:1 Kill-Loss ratio. After the battle of Kursk, the surviving Ferdinands were modified with secondary armament and other characteristics, they were renamed to Elefant.
-The Ferdinand was introduced during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. The Ferdinand is armed with very powerful 8.8 cm cannon, allowing to destroy nearly any opponent at distance over 1 km, while the thick armour making the Ferdinand a very tough to penetrate from the front. However, the 200 mm frontal armour does not reach to the frontal turret cheeks which are only 80 mm thick. A hit into these will detonate the ammunition and cause fatal explosion. Due to its weight and size, Ferdinand is also not very mobile, it should be used as a sniper from behind ally tanks or to hold choke points as it can withstand direct frontal fire from majority of the enemies it sees in battles.
+It was introduced during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. It is a formidable armoured tank destroyer design, the Ferdinand can withstand most frontal shots when faced from a long distance, yet deliver a devastating attack with its 88 mm cannon. The Ferdinand is a great example of a heavy tank destroyer, well armoured, and with poor mobility. With an 88mm cannon, it should be used as a sniper behind allied tanks, hills or any sort of terrain that exposes mainly the front of your chassis, since this part is the most protected and a penetration here, is less likely to set the ammunition on fire or knock out most of the crew.
 == General info ==

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''' ([[Abbreviations#.28DE.29_Sd.Kfz._Index|Sd.Kfz. Index:]] '''Sd.Kfz. 184''') is a rank {{Specs|rank}} German tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41.
+The '''{{Specs|name}}''' ([[Abbreviations#.28DE.29_Sd.Kfz._Index|Sd.Kfz. Index:]] '''Sd.Kfz. 184''') was a German heavy tank destroyer. The developement of Ferdinand sparked from the competition between Porsche and Henschel regarding the Tiger heavy tank. Porsche thought his prototype would be chosen over the Henschel one, so he decided to produce approximately 100 chassis of the VK 45.01 that would later become the Tiger I. However, Henschel prototype was chosen instead, and it was decided to use the already manufactured Porsche hulls as a base of a heavy tank destroyer, armed with the newly developed Krupp PaK 43 8,8 cm gun. The Ferdinand was designed to supplement light tank destroyers such as Marder III in offensive role. Due to the petrol-electric transmission used, the conversion was quite simple with the engines moving into the space forward in the hull where turret was previously installed. Behind the engines, a casemate was made, housing the gun and
-A formidable armoured tank destroyer design, the Ferdinand can withstand most frontal shots when faced from a long distance, yet deliver a devastating attack with its 88 mm cannon.
+The Ferdinand was introduced during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. The Ferdinand is armed with very powerful 8.8 cm cannon, allowing to destroy nearly any opponent at distance over 1 km, while the thick armour making the Ferdinand a very tough to penetrate from the front. However, the 200 mm frontal armour does not reach to the frontal turret cheeks which are only 80 mm thick. A hit into these will detonate the ammunition and cause fatal explosion. Due to its weight and size, Ferdinand is also not very mobile, it should be used as a sniper from behind ally tanks or to hold choke points as it can withstand direct frontal fire from majority of the enemies it sees in battles.
 == General info ==

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 Though the Ferdinand has great armour and firepower, most of the knocked out Ferdinands were due to anti-tank mines and mechanical failure. Damages to tracks forced the tank crew to exit the vehicle and repair it, and the 65-ton weight of the vehicle made armour recovery a nightmarish job, requiring five Bergepanzer IV ([[Pz.IV G|Panzer IV]] armour recovery vehicle) to tow one from the front lines. More Ferdinands were destroyed by their own crew to prevent capture than to combat losses due to the inability to easily recover these vehicles in a defensive war where German territory is gradually lost to the Soviets. Despite these drawbacks, the Ferdinands were much feared among the Soviet tankers, as the Ferdinand produced horrific losses among the Soviet armour corps. During the Battle of Kursk, the 653rd Heavy Tank Battalion claimed to have knocked out 320 enemy tanks, with the loss of 13 Ferdinands.
-After Kursk, all surviving Ferdinands were recalled in September 1943 to be modified, which fixed most of the previous flaws. 48 of the 50 survivors were modified with a hull-mounted machine gun, a commander's cupola, and anti-magnetic Zimmerit paste to counter Soviet magnetic mines. The armour and track width of the vehicle was also enlarged and brought Ferdinand's 65 tons weight up to 70 tons. These modified vehicles are designated the Elefant. One of the Ferdinands unable to be converted to an Elefant due to battle damages began to be converted into a Rammpanzer Tiger or Rammtiger which was to be a breakthrough vehicle, though there is no evidence that it was completed or saw service. The Elefants then served in the Italian front against the Western Allies, but its heavyweight impeded its mobility on the rough terrain and the use of bridges and roads. After Italy, the Elefants didn't see much use due to the low quantity. One company of Elefants saw action during the Soviet's January 1945 Vistula-Oder offensive in Poland, and the last few surviving vehicles were in combat at Zossen during the Battle of Berlin. The Ferdinand may have been the most successful tank destroyer employed during the entire war in terms of claimed kills per loss, reaching an average ratio of approximately 10:1. This ratio could be given thanks to the armour and firepower of the tank destroyer, but in terms of operational capabilities the poor mobility, mechanical unreliability, and low quantity of these vehicles meant it had little impact in the overall strategic effect in the war.
+After Kursk, all surviving Ferdinands were recalled in September 1943 to be modified, which fixed most of the previous flaws. 48 of the 50 survivors were modified with a hull-mounted machine gun, a commander's cupola, and anti-magnetic Zimmerit paste to counter Soviet magnetic mines. The armour and track width of the vehicle was also enlarged and brought Ferdinand's 65 tons weight up to 70 tons. These modified vehicles are designated the [[Elefant]]. One of the Ferdinands unable to be converted to an Elefant due to battle damages began to be converted into a Rammpanzer Tiger or Rammtiger which was to be a breakthrough vehicle, though there is no evidence that it was completed or saw service. The Elefants then served in the Italian front against the Western Allies, but its heavyweight impeded its mobility on the rough terrain and the use of bridges and roads. After Italy, the Elefants didn't see much use due to the low quantity. One company of Elefants saw action during the Soviet's January 1945 Vistula-Oder offensive in Poland, and the last few surviving vehicles were in combat at Zossen during the Battle of Berlin. The Ferdinand may have been the most successful tank destroyer employed during the entire war in terms of claimed kills per loss, reaching an average ratio of approximately 10:1. This ratio could be given thanks to the armour and firepower of the tank destroyer, but in terms of operational capabilities the poor mobility, mechanical unreliability, and low quantity of these vehicles meant it had little impact in the overall strategic effect in the war.
 ===Survivors===

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 During the program to create what will end up being the [[Tiger I (Family)|Tiger I]] tanks, Henschel and Porsche competed against each other for the contract to build the tanks. Porsche further developed their pre-existing 45-ton prototype, the [[VK 45.01 (P)]], while Henschel adapted their 36 ton prototype (VK 3601 H) to create the VK 4501 H. Henschel won the contract, but Porsche was extremely confident that their design would win that around 100 of the VK 4501 P chassis were already constructed. Since the design lost, it was determined to use the chassis for the basis of a new vehicle, namely a tank destroyer to mount the new and formidable [[PaK 43 (88 mm)|88 mm PaK 43 anti-tank gun]]. These new tank destroyers were then called the Ferdinand, after its designer Ferdinand Porsche.
-The Ferdinand was a formidable tank destroyer design. Changes from the original VK 4501 P chassis was the movement of the engine towards the centre rather than the rear. The armour bolted onto the front plate gave the Ferdinand an armour thickness of 200 mm. Plus, with the 88 mm Pak 43 on a fixed casemate design, it could knock out any allied tanks before they could enter effective ranges against the Ferdinand. 91 of the VK 4501 P chassis were converted into the Ferdinand. The design was not without its flaw though, mostly concerned with the heavy weight of 65 tons and an unreliable engine with the gasoline-electric drive system. Two Maybach 12 cylinder HL120 TRM engines with 265 hp constant power output drove 2 generators which powered 2 Siemens-Schuckert electric motors with 230 kW power output. This resulted in a top speed of only 20 kph and a very low operational range of only 150 km. Other lesser drawbacks were the lack of all-around vision ports and machine guns, which would be later addressed due to combat experience. Nevertheless, the engine and weight drawbacks would plague the Ferdinand design throughout its service life.
+The Ferdinand was a formidable tank destroyer design. Changes from the original VK 4501 P chassis was the movement of the engine towards the centre rather than the rear. The armour bolted onto the front plate gave the Ferdinand an armour thickness of 200 mm. Plus, with the 88 mm Pak 43 on a fixed casemate design, it could knock out any allied tanks before they could enter effective ranges against the Ferdinand. 91 of the VK 4501 P chassis were converted into the Ferdinand. The design was not without its flaw though, mostly concerned with the heavy weight of 65 tons and an unreliable engine with the gasoline-electric drive system. Two Maybach 12 cylinder HL120 TRM engines with 265 hp constant power output drove 2 generators which powered 2 Siemens-Schuckert electric motors with 230 kW power output. This resulted in a top speed of only 20 km/h and a very low operational range of only 150 km. Other lesser drawbacks were the lack of all-around vision ports and machine guns, which would be later addressed due to combat experience. Nevertheless, the engine and weight drawbacks would plague the Ferdinand design throughout its service life.
 ===Combat usage===
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 ;Skins
 * [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=germ_panzerjager_tiger_P_ferdinand Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
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 == See also ==
 ''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
 * ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
 * ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

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 ==== Ammunition ====
-{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
+{{:PaK43 (88 mm)/Ammunition|PzGr 39/43, PzGr 40/43, Hl.Gr 39, Sprgr.43}}
 ==== [[Ammo racks]] ====

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 ;Skins
 * [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=germ_panzerjager_tiger_P_ferdinand Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
 ;Videos
-{{Youtube-gallery|5E2X7q_tIgM|'''The Shooting Range #306''' - ''Pages of History'' section at 03:52 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|ExA9b4wexHE|'''The Shooting Range #249''' - ''Round Study'' section at 09:02 discusses how to penetrate the {{PAGENAME}}.|xF4-TcnyWw0|'''Best tank destroyers''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 0:53 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''|uhokdRjOXpg|'''{{PAGENAME}} Tank Review''' - ''NUSensei''|FOAlC7KNfEc|'''Ferdinand: The Bastard Tiger''' - ''Military History Visualized''}}
+{{Youtube-gallery|5E2X7q_tIgM|'''The Shooting Range #306''' - ''Pages of History'' section at 03:52 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|ExA9b4wexHE|'''The Shooting Range #249''' - ''Round Study'' section at 09:02 discusses how to penetrate the {{PAGENAME}}.|xF4-TcnyWw0|'''Best tank destroyers''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 0:53 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''|FOAlC7KNfEc|'''Ferdinand: The Bastard Tiger''' - ''Military History Visualized''}}
 == See also ==

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 Today, two of these tank destroyers are left in intact conditions today. One Ferdinand was captured by the Soviets at Kursk and is now in display at the Kubinka Tank Museum. Another one, an Elefant, was captured by the Americans at Anzio, Italy. It was displayed at the US Army Ordnance Museum at Fort Lee, Virginia for many years and was restored to display condition in 2007. Currently, it is being loaned to the Bovington Tank Museum and is in the new exhibit "Tiger Collection".<ref name="FerdinandTankMuseum">The Tank Museum. "THE TIGER COLLECTION – THE TANKS, THE TERROR & THE TRUTH." Tank Museum. N.p., 02 Nov. 2016. Web. 04 Nov. 2016. [https://web.archive.org/web/20190221224112/https://www.tankmuseum.org//year-news/bovnews53673 Web Archive].</ref>
-=== In-game description ===
+{{break}}
 The Ferdinand self-propelled artillery gun was developed in 1942 to 1943 from the experimental VK 4501 (P) tank, which was developed by Porsche but never entered military service. In 1943, the company Alkett built 90 of these guns.
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 However, the German military valued the controllability and survivability of the vehicle's engine and transmission. A suspension with longitudinal torsion bars was much easier to maintain and repair when compared to a staggered torsion bar suspension, but it was very difficult to manufacture and less reliable in the field.
 == Media ==