F-8E(FN) (France) - Revision history

U165964580: changed to 35gs, it's what the g overload is.

2024-11-20T02:37:27Z

changed to 35gs, it's what the g overload is.

U38088265: Edits

2024-07-27T11:35:24Z

Edits

Show changes

U5478688: While the quick facts in the description is very interesting (and kept), I am reverting the remainder of the text, as it is irrelevant to describe the F8E(FN) only with comparison to the US F8E. It is it's own aircraft. (Also "disappointment" is personal)

2024-07-26T09:42:47Z

While the quick facts in the description is very interesting (and kept), I am reverting the remainder of the text, as it is irrelevant to describe the F8E(FN) only with comparison to the US F8E. It is it's own aircraft. (Also "disappointment" is personal)

U5478688: Inserted said image to show the wing flaps/variable AoA of the crusader

2024-01-08T18:35:06Z

Inserted said image to show the wing flaps/variable AoA of the crusader

U44629479: Added About template

2023-12-29T17:37:17Z

Added About template

U38088265: /* Offensive armament */ Updated

2023-12-18T18:23:36Z

‎Offensive armament: Updated

U48664895: Updated description to new format and added history section

2023-09-26T22:00:42Z

Updated description to new format and added history section

U44629479: Edits

2023-04-25T15:52:43Z

Edits

U44629479: Edits

2023-04-25T15:44:45Z

Edits

U5478688 at 17:59, 18 April 2023

2023-04-18T17:59:21Z

@@ Line 163: / Line 163: @@
 The Matra R530E is a viable alternative to the R530 if the player has not mastered the radar guidance, or simply doesn't like the radar-guided version.
-With its 30G overload, and Mach 3 max speed, the Matra R550 Magic 1 is a revolution in the arsenal of the Crusader, giving it the capability to fire a missile in dogfight, as a snap-fire, or off-boresight. The Magic 1 can also be slaved to the radar, widening the variety of launch solutions and the versatility of the missile in various situations.
+With its 35G overload, and Mach 3 max speed, the Matra R550 Magic 1 is a revolution in the arsenal of the Crusader, giving it the capability to fire a missile in dogfight, as a snap-fire, or off-boresight. The Magic 1 can also be slaved to the radar, widening the variety of launch solutions and the versatility of the missile in various situations.
 == Usage in battles ==

@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 After failing to design a suitable replacement for the Sud-Est Aquilon, the French looked toward the U.S. for a naval fighter. The French Navy would later select the Vought F-8 Crusader, a single-seat fighter that could serve aboard the smaller French carrier vessels. This required a few airframe modifications like a larger tailplane and more responsive control surfaces. The F-8E (FN) would keep the four 20-mm cannons and the ability to fire AIM-9Bs; however, it was modified to also launch the Matra R530. France ordered 42 Crusaders and would use them for over 30 years until the Dassault Rafale replaced them.
-Introduced in [[Update "Direct Hit"]], the '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a decent aircraft but with major disadvantages. Firstly, the F-8E (FN) lacks any countermeasures which is a big disappointment for its battle rating where high G missiles are quite common. It can also carry only two Matra Magic 1s which have a short range compared to AIM-9D Sidewinders. The F-8E (FN) also lacks any ground ordnance, so ground attack abilities are very limited. Overall, the F-8E (FN) is okay but the lack of countermeasures, long-range missiles, and ground ordnance greatly limits its capability.
+Introduced in [[Update "Direct Hit"]], the '''{{Specs|name}}''' This aircraft represents the first entry of the French carrier-based air force into the supersonic era. The Crusader is a relatively difficult aircraft to master, especially when considering the opponents at its battle rating. It represents the continuous improvement of French armaments, installed on a relatively old machine. The result is a curious mix of early supersonic jets flight characteristics, with 70s era available weaponry.
 == General info ==

@@ Line 53: / Line 53: @@
 |}
 The Crusader is a heavy carrier-borne fighter. Because of its weight, it is constructed with a variable angle of attack wing plane. This means that the wings can change position to act as a single, giant, take-off flap (see picture). This feature is not associated to the "variable geometry" control input, but rather is considered the Landing position of the flaps.
 It is possible to use this feature to its advantage in a low speed dogfight, and using the higher angle of attack to turn into the circle of the opponent, sacrificing your own speed in the process, to attack with a missile or gun fire. Note that whether the manoeuvre succeeds or fails, the Crusader with be left in a extremely vulnerable position until it regains speed.

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:37, 29 December 2023
Line 1:		Line 1:
		+	{{About
		+	\| about = jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
		+	\| usage = the other version
		+	\| link = F-8E
		+	}}
	{{Specs-Card		{{Specs-Card
	\|code=f-8e_fn		\|code=f-8e_fn

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
 After failing to design a suitable replacement for the Sud-Est Aquilon, the French looked toward the U.S. for a naval fighter. The French Navy would later select the Vought F-8 Crusader, a single-seat fighter that could serve aboard the smaller French carrier vessels. This required a few airframe modifications like a larger tailplane and more responsive control surfaces. The F-8E (FN) would keep the four 20-mm cannons and the ability to fire AIM-9Bs; however, it was modified to also launch the Matra R530. France ordered 42 Crusaders and would use them for over 30 years until the Dassault Rafale replaced them.
 Introduced in [[Update "Direct Hit"]], the '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a decent aircraft but with major disadvantages. Firstly, the F-8E (FN) lacks any countermeasures which is a big disappointment for its battle rating where high G missiles are quite common. It can also carry only two Matra Magic 1s which have a short range compared to AIM-9D Sidewinders. The F-8E (FN) also lacks any ground ordnance, so ground attack abilities are very limited. Overall, the F-8E (FN) is okay but the lack of countermeasures, long-range missiles, and ground ordnance greatly limits its capability.
 == General info ==
@@ Line 131: / Line 131: @@
 The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:
-* 4 x 20 mm Browning-Colt Mk12 Mod 3 cannons, cheek-mounted (144 rpg = 576 total)
+* 4 x 20 mm Browning-Colt Mk12 Mod 3 cannons, cheek-mounted (125 rpg = 500 total)
 The 20 mm Browning-Colt Mk12 Mod 3 cannons are stacked in the centre of the aircraft, on each side of the air intake. It is to be noted that unlike the French 30 mm DEFA guns, that are on every French made aircraft from BR 8.3 up to this BR, these guns carry a much smaller explosive charge per round, but at a substantially higher velocity, allowing to fire at opponents with a lower lead.
@@ Line 162: / Line 162: @@
 At rank 4 of modifications, the Matra 550 Magic 1 is unlocked. With its 30G overload, and Mach 3.00 max speed, this missile is a revolution in the arsenal of the Crusader, giving it the capability to fire a missile in dogfight, as a snap-fire, or off-boresight. The Magic 1 is also slaved to the radar, giving it an even higher hit-probability if the target is tracked by radar at launch.
 Overall, the complement of missiles available to the F-8E(FN) is representative to the French cold war missile arsenal, with different engagement methods, tracking systems, and size.
 == Usage in battles ==
@@ Line 203: / Line 203: @@
 == History ==
 <!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the aircraft in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
-To replace the aging Sud-Est Aquilon, a variant of the Sea Venom, France was looking for a new aircraft that could serve aboard the new French carrier vessels. After many failed designs were submitted by the native French air industry, the French Navy looked towards foreign aircraft for a replacement. The Vought F-8 Crusader was selected and an order of 40 single F-8E and six TF-8E (two-seaters) was placed. Unfortunately, the two-seat variant of the Crusader never came to fruition and the order was changed to 42 single-seat F-8Es. The French F-8E would later be designated the F-8E (FN), the “FN” signifying the French Navy.
+To replace the aging Sud-Est Aquilon, a variant of the Sea Venom, France was looking for a new aircraft that could serve aboard the new French carrier vessels. After many failed designs were submitted by the native French air industry, the French Navy looked towards foreign aircraft for a replacement. The Vought F-8 Crusader was selected and an order of 40 single F-8E and six TF-8E (two-seaters) was placed. Unfortunately, the two-seat variant of the Crusader never came to fruition and the order was changed to 42 single-seat F-8Es. The French F-8E would later be designated the F-8E (FN), the "FN" signifying the French Navy.
 The first deliveries of the French Crusaders began in the mid-1960s and were sent to two squadrons, Flotille 12F and Flotille 14F. The F-8E (FN) had the standard armament of four 20-mm cannons mounted in the nose and the ability to utilize AIM-9B Sidewinders. In addition, the F-8E (FN) was modified to launch and carry both the infrared and radar variants of the Matra 530 missile. There was also an upgrade program in the early 1990s that introduced IFF, ILS, a radar altimeter, and more. It took roughly three years for the program to be completed. In 2000, the F-8E (FN) was finally replaced by the Dassault Rafale.

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 The aircraft does not compress at high speeds but will tend to consume its energy while dogfighting relatively quickly, when compared to the extremely light F-5, or the gigantically powered MiG-21. This means that agressive manoeuvres should be reserved for clean kills, whereas speed is the Crusader's ally in furballs, constantly harrassing enemies, engaged elsewhere, or unaware of its presence.
-Speed-wise, the French Crusader is victim to a strange effect, that makes it often stuck at Mach 1.00, close to sea level. while it's acceleration is on-par, when compared to its contemporaties. Researching new airframe and engine upgrades tend to mitigate this effect, but never aleviate it completely.
+Speed-wise, the French Crusader is victim to a strange effect, that makes it often stuck at Mach 1.00, close to sea level. while it's acceleration is on-par, when compared to its contemporaries. Researching new airframe and engine upgrades tend to mitigate this effect, but never alleviate it completely.
 {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 |-
 |}
-Warning: The Crusader is a heavy carrier-borne fighter. Because of its weight, it is constructed with a ''variable angle of attack wing plane.'' This means that the wings can change position to act as a single, giant, take-off flap (see picture). This feature is NOT associated to the "variable geometry" control input, but rather is considered the Landing position of the flaps.
+The Crusader is a heavy carrier-borne fighter. Because of its weight, it is constructed with a variable angle of attack wing plane. This means that the wings can change position to act as a single, giant, take-off flap (see picture). This feature is not associated to the "variable geometry" control input, but rather is considered the Landing position of the flaps.
 {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
 |-
@@ Line 111: / Line 112: @@
 {{Specs-Avia-Armour}}
 <!-- ''Examine the survivability of the aircraft. Note how vulnerable the structure is and how secure the pilot is, whether the fuel tanks are armoured, etc. Describe the armour, if there is any, and also mention the vulnerability of other critical aircraft systems.'' -->
-The F8E(FN) possesses no armour on any part of the aircraft. it has a bulletproof glass front canopy, 25mm thick, reclined at 70°, and self-sealing tanks. These protection devices are of very little help, because such a thickness of bulletproof glass will virtually never stop cold war era jet guns, ranging in the 20-30 mm of diameter, and the self-sealing tanks are incapable of sealing even a single hole of such a diameter. Overall, the Crusader has little chances of surviving a missile hit, but can sometimes be seen surviving a 20 mm volley, just enough to get its pilot back to base, although it remains a minority of occurences.
+The F-8E(FN) possesses no armour on any part of the aircraft. it has a 25 mm thick bulletproof glass front canopy reclined at 70°, and self-sealing tanks. These protection devices are of very little help, because such a thickness of bulletproof glass will virtually never stop cold war era jet guns, ranging in the 20-30 mm of diameter, and the self-sealing tanks are incapable of sealing even a single hole of such a diameter. Overall, the Crusader has little chances of surviving a missile hit, but can sometimes be seen surviving a 20 mm volley, just enough to get its pilot back to base, although it remains a minority of occurrences.
 === Modifications and economy ===
-As any fighter of its battle-rating, the missiles complement are an absolute priority, multiplying the capabilities of the aircraft tenfold. Every missile type is stacked in a single line, and the aircraft is the last of its line, meaning each component is very expensive, RP wise. Nevertheless, each new missile component is an upgrade from the last, finishing with the dreaded Matra 550 Magic 1 missile.
+{{Specs-Economy}}
-The components associated with the airflow dynamics of the aircraft are also important.{{Specs-Economy}}
+The components associated with the airflow dynamics of the aircraft are also important.
 == Armaments ==
@@ Line 129: / Line 131: @@
 * 4 x 20 mm Browning-Colt Mk12 Mod 3 cannons, cheek-mounted (144 rpg = 576 total)
-The Mk12 Browning-Colt 20mm guns are stacked in the center of the aircraft, on each side of the air intake. It is to be noted that unlike the French DEFA 30mm guns, that are on every French made aircraft from 8.3 up to this battle-rating, these guns carry a much smaller explosive charge per round, but at a substantially higher velocity, allowing to fire at opponents with a lower lead.
+The 20 mm Browning-Colt Mk12 Mod 3 cannons are stacked in the centre of the aircraft, on each side of the air intake. It is to be noted that unlike the French 30 mm DEFA guns, that are on every French made aircraft from BR 8.3 up to this BR, these guns carry a much smaller explosive charge per round, but at a substantially higher velocity, allowing to fire at opponents with a lower lead.
 Warning: These cannons can and will overheat extremely quickly, after a salvo of approximately 1.2 - 1.4 seconds. Short bursts are advised, as they are often sufficient and conserve ammunition.
@@ Line 148: / Line 150: @@
 * 2 x Matra R550 Magic 1 missiles
-The whole range of suspended armament available to the French F8E(FN) are exclusively air-to-air missiles.
+The whole range of suspended armament available to the French F-8E(FN) are exclusively air-to-air missiles.
 The AIM-9B Sidewinder are of poor performance at this tier and can only be used against players that are unaware of the Crusader's presence. They are sufficient to engage and destroy AI aircraft to gain the necessary research points to unlock the next missiles. Note that these missiles are the only ones that can be carried in a cluster of four.
-The Matra 530 is a good upgrade from the Sidewinder-B. The Radar guided 530 gives the Crusader BVR capabilities, and all aspect capabilities, that are superior in range (albeit less agile) to the radar guided AIM-9C carried by the American counterpart of the F8E. The usage of a radar guided missile with a flare-less aircraft can be dangerous because the optimal altitudes of the missile will not allow the F8E to evade any incoming enemy threats, if they also carry radar missiles.
+The Matra 530 is a good upgrade from the AIM-9B Sidewinder. The radar-guided 530 gives the Crusader BVR capabilities, and all-aspect capabilities, that are superior in range (albeit less agile) to the radar-guided AIM-9C carried by the American counterpart of the F-8E. The usage of a radar guided missile with a flare-less aircraft can be dangerous because the optimal altitudes of the missile will not allow the F-8E to evade any incoming enemy threats, if they also carry radar missiles.
-The Matra 530E, unlocked after the 530 is a viable alternative to the 530 if the player has not mastered the radar guidance, or simply doesn't like the radar guided version.
+The Matra 530E, unlocked after the 530 is a viable alternative to the 530 if the player has not mastered the radar guidance, or simply doesn't like the radar-guided version.
-At rank 4 of modifications, the Matra 550 MAGIC 1 is unlocked. With its 30G overload, and Mach 3.00 max speed, this missile is a revolution in the arsenal of the Crusader, giving it the capability to fire a missile in dogfight, as a snap-fire, or off-boresight. The MAGIC 1 is also slaved to the radar, giving it an even higher hit-probability if the target is tracked by radar at launch.
+At rank 4 of modifications, the Matra 550 Magic 1 is unlocked. With its 30G overload, and Mach 3.00 max speed, this missile is a revolution in the arsenal of the Crusader, giving it the capability to fire a missile in dogfight, as a snap-fire, or off-boresight. The Magic 1 is also slaved to the radar, giving it an even higher hit-probability if the target is tracked by radar at launch.
-Overall, the complement of missiles available to the F8E(FN) is representative to the French cold war missile arsenal, with different engagement methods, tracking systems, and size.
+Overall, the complement of missiles available to the F-8E(FN) is representative to the French cold war missile arsenal, with different engagement methods, tracking systems, and size.
 == Usage in battles ==
 <!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the aircraft, the features of using aircraft in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
-The entirety of the tactics available to the F8E(FN) are limited by its lack of flares. The French Crusader will not be able to survive a missile exchange, and is vulnerable to all-aspect IR missiles, that are available to some aircraft at this tier.
+The entirety of the tactics available to the F-8E(FN) are limited by its lack of flares. The French Crusader will not be able to survive a missile exchange, and is vulnerable to all-aspect IR missiles, that are available to some aircraft at this tier.
-In the same concept, the French Crusader cannot be played at high altitude like its American counterpart, because it will be quickly picked off by a radar missile like an early AIM-7 Sparrow, AIM9-C, or R-3R that it will not be able to evade.
+In the same concept, the French Crusader cannot be played at high altitude like its American counterpart, because it will be quickly picked off by a radar-guided missile like an early AIM-7 Sparrow, AIM-9C, or R-3R that it will not be able to evade.
-With these two factors into account, the F8E(FN) must be played as a harrasser. The missiles it can carry emphasize this, as they are either not very manoeuvrable, or have a short range.
+With these two factors into account, the F-8E(FN) must be played as a harrasser. The missiles it can carry emphasize this, as they are either not very manoeuvrable, or have a short range.
-If a French F8E arrives onto an already engaged enemy group, it can wreak havoc with its high manoeuvrability, and engage basically any target with great effect. As long as attention is not drawn onto the Crusader, it can re-engage at will, always keeping up its speed, picking off enemies.
+If a French F-8E arrives onto an already engaged enemy group, it can wreak havoc with its high manoeuvrability, and engage basically any target with great effect. As long as attention is not drawn onto the Crusader, it can re-engage at will, always keeping up its speed, picking off enemies.
-If despite that, a missile is fired upon the French Crusader, it's speed protects it from most IR missiles like the AIM-9B/E, or the R-60 and will outrun them. This is not the case for later generation AIM-9Ls and equivalents.
+If despite that, a missile is fired upon the French Crusader, its speed protects it from most IR missiles like the AIM-9B/E, or the R-60 and will outrun them. This is not the case for later generation AIM-9Ls and equivalents.
 As with its neighbours in the french tech-tree, the Mirage IIIC and the Mirage 5F (and the Milan, to some extent), the aircraft has to remain close to supersonic as much as possible.
-Overall, the F8E(FN) is a quite difficult aircraft to master, especially selecting when and where to strike and where not to, but the skills developed while playing it are very useful for the entirety of the other French supersonic jets.
+Overall, the F-8E(FN) is a quite difficult aircraft to master, especially selecting when and where to strike and where not to, but the skills developed while playing it are very useful for the entirety of the other French supersonic jets.
 === Pros and cons ===