F-104G (Germany) - Revision history

U38088265: /* Suspended armament */ Updated

2024-06-20T20:23:44Z

‎Suspended armament: Updated

U40820515: /* Details */

2024-05-23T05:11:16Z

‎Details

U27038907: /* Pros and cons */

2023-12-20T04:51:45Z

‎Pros and cons

U38088265: /* Description */

2023-08-16T10:23:57Z

‎Description

U48664895: Updated description to new format

2023-08-16T03:38:24Z

Updated description to new format

U38088265: /* Suspended armament */ Updated

2023-06-18T08:44:53Z

‎Suspended armament: Updated

U47229008: Aim 9E are Stock not Aim 9J

2023-01-19T10:20:13Z

Aim 9E are Stock not Aim 9J

U38088265: U38088265 moved page F-104G to F-104G (Germany): Renamed in 2.23

2022-12-21T12:45:29Z

U38088265 moved page F-104G to F-104G (Germany): Renamed in 2.23

U44629479: Edits

2022-11-30T22:40:01Z

Edits

U38088265: /* Suspended armament */ Updated

2022-09-16T10:29:01Z

‎Suspended armament: Updated

@@ Line 84: / Line 84: @@
 ! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="3" | Wing loading (full fuel)
 |-
-| colspan="2" | General Electric J79-GE-11 || 1
+| colspan="2" | General Electric J79-MTU-J1K || 1
 | colspan="2" | 6,552 kg || colspan="3" | 532 kg/m<sup>2</sup>
 |-
@@ Line 132: / Line 132: @@
 {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 |-
-! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
+! colspan="5" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
 |-
-! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
+! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs) !! EEGS
 |-
-| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Cross}}
+| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Cross}} || {{Cross}}
 |-
 |}
@@ Line 146: / Line 146: @@
 The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:
-* A choice between two presets:
+* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon, nose-mounted (750 rpg)
-** 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon, nose-mounted (750 rpg)
+* 60 x countermeasures
 The M61A1 is an excellent cannon at its rank, only disadvantages being the spool up time and limited ammo count relative to rate of fire.
@@ Line 173: / Line 172: @@
 |-
 ! [[LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|500 lb LDGP Mk 82]] bombs
-| || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
+| || 1, 2 || || 1* || || 1, 2 ||
 |-
 ! [[Mk 82 Snakeye (500 lb)|500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye]] bombs
-| || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
+| || 1, 2 || || 1* || || 1, 2 ||
 |-
 ! [[M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|750 lb M117 cone 45]] bombs
@@ Line 225: / Line 224: @@
 * 2 x AS-20 Nord missiles
 * 2 x AS-30 Nord missiles
-* 3 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (1,500 lb total)
+* 5 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (2,500 lb total)
-* 3 x 500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye bombs (1,500 lb total)
+* 5 x 500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye bombs (2,500 lb total)
 * 3 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (2,250 lb total)
 * 3 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (3,000 lb total)

@@ Line 61: / Line 61: @@
 ! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
 |-
-| 1,527 <!-- {{Specs|destruction|body}} --> || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 827 || 444 || ~12 || ~5
+| 1,555 <!-- {{Specs|destruction|body}} --> || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 827 || 444 || ~12 || ~5
 |-
 |}

@@ Line 216: / Line 216: @@
 {{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
 {{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}
 * Without load
 * 2 x AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles
@@ Line 285: / Line 286: @@
 * Great rate of climb
 * Good roll rate
-* Decent high-speed manoeuvrability
+* Decent high-speed maneuverability
-* Powerful M61 Vulcan cannon with a very high fire rate, great ballistics and high damage
+* Powerful M61 Vulcan cannon with a very high fire rate, good damage, excellent velocity, and plenty of ammunition
 * Wide selection of secondary ordnance, including air-to-ground AS.20 guided missiles; much better than early F-104s
 * Access to four potent AIM-9J sidewinder air-to-air missiles
@@ Line 293: / Line 294: @@
 '''Cons:'''
-* Very poor overall manoeuvrability and terrible low-speed manoeuvrability
+* Very poor overall maneuverability and terrible low-speed maneuverability
 * Bleeds energy quickly in sustained turn fights
 * Large turning radius due to small wing surface and high speed
 * High takeoff and landing speeds

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-The F-104G was the most common variant out of all the Starfighter variants with over 1,000 built by various companies like Lockheed, Fokker, Fiat, etc. Germany was also one of the biggest users of the Starfighter with over 900 purchased. However, Germany struggled with the F-104 and would later earn the nickname ''Witwenmacher'' (“Widowmaker”) from the German public due to its high accident rate. Over 250 planes were lost in accidents and 100+ Luftwaffe pilots died as a result. Fortunately, as Germany addressed the problems with the F-104 program the accident rate decreased to a rate similar to other countries operating the Starfighter.
+The F-104G was the most common variants of the Starfighter family, with over 1,000 built by various companies like Lockheed, Fokker, Fiat, etc. Germany was also one of the biggest users of the Starfighter with over 900 purchased. However, Germany struggled with the F-104 and would later earn the nickname ''Witwenmacher'' ("Widowmaker") from the German public due to its high accident rate. Over 250 planes were lost in accidents and 100+ Luftwaffe pilots died as a result. Fortunately, as Germany addressed the problems with the F-104 program the accident rate decreased to a rate similar to other countries operating the Starfighter.
 == General info ==

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} German jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Starfighters"]]. It is often referred to as the "missile with a man in it" or the "widow maker", the latter nickname highlighting its questionable safety record in Luftwaffe use.
+The F-104G was the most common variant out of all the Starfighter variants with over 1,000 built by various companies like Lockheed, Fokker, Fiat, etc. Germany was also one of the biggest users of the Starfighter with over 900 purchased. However, Germany struggled with the F-104 and would later earn the nickname ''Witwenmacher'' (“Widowmaker”) from the German public due to its high accident rate. Over 250 planes were lost in accidents and 100+ Luftwaffe pilots died as a result. Fortunately, as Germany addressed the problems with the F-104 program the accident rate decreased to a rate similar to other countries operating the Starfighter.
 == General info ==

@@ Line 159: / Line 159: @@
 {{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}
 <!-- ''Describe the aircraft's suspended armament: additional cannons under the wings, bombs, rockets and torpedoes. This section is especially important for bombers and attackers. If there is no suspended weaponry remove this subsection.'' -->
-The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:
+The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:
 {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 |-
 ! !! width="6%" | 1 !! width="6%" | 2 !! width="6%" | 3 !! width="6%" | 4 !! width="6%" | 5 !! width="6%" | 6 !! width="6%" | 7
-| rowspan="14" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
+| rowspan="15" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
 |-
-! 250 kg Matra 25E bombs
+! [[Matra 25E (250 kg)|250 kg Matra 25E]] bombs
 | || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
 |-
-! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
+! [[LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|500 lb LDGP Mk 82]] bombs
 | || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
 |-
-! 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs
+! [[Mk 82 Snakeye (500 lb)|500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye]] bombs
 | || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
 |-
-! 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs
+! [[M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|750 lb M117 cone 45]] bombs
 | || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
 |-
-! BLU-1 incendiary bombs
+! [[LDGP Mk 83 (1,000 lb)|1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83]] bombs
 | || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
 |-
-! Hydra-70 M247 rockets
+! [[BLU-1 incendiary]] bombs
 | || 7 || || || || 7 ||
 |-
-! AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles
+! [[AIM-9B Sidewinder]] missiles
 | 1 || || 1* || || 1* || || 1
 |-
-! AIM-9B FGW.2 Sidewinder missiles
+! [[AIM-9B FGW.2 Sidewinder]] missiles
 | 1 || || 1* || || 1* || || 1
 |-
-! AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles
+! [[AIM-9E Sidewinder]] missiles
 | 1 || || || || || || 1
 |-
-! AIM-9J Sidewinder missiles
+! [[AIM-9J Sidewinder]] missiles
 | 1 || || 1* || || 1* || || 1
 |-
-! AS-20 Nord missiles
+! [[AS-20 Nord]] missiles
 | || 1 || || || || 1 ||
 |-
-! AS-30 Nord missiles
+! [[AS-30 Nord]] missiles
 | || 1 || || || || 1 ||
 |-
@@ Line 234: / Line 209: @@
 |-
 | colspan="9" | * Ordnance on hardpoint 4 cannot by carried in conjunction with missiles on hardpoints 3/5
 |}
 == Usage in battles ==

@@ Line 124: / Line 124: @@
 {{Specs-Economy}}
-The F-104G's engine performance is sufficient when stock, so one should go for countermeasures first. Most enemies engage with IR missiles and the F-104G simply does not have enough manoeuvrability to outturn modern ones like [[R-60]] and [[AIM-9J Sidewinder]]. If playing in ground battles, work on unlocking the AIM-9J modification as soon as possible, as this will allow them to be carried in addition to ground ordnance. This means that the two AIM-9B modifications should be prioritised, as well as ordnance modifications to unlock the next modification tiers. Otherwise, the 2 x AIM-9J loadout is provided stock, so none of the modifications are truly vital beyond countermeasures.
+The F-104G's engine performance is sufficient when stock, so one should go for countermeasures first. Most enemies engage with IR missiles and the F-104G simply does not have enough manoeuvrability to outturn modern ones like [[R-60]] and [[AIM-9J Sidewinder]]. If playing in ground battles, work on unlocking the AIM-9J modification as soon as possible, as this will allow them to be carried in addition to ground ordnance. This means that the two AIM-9B modifications should be prioritised, as well as ordnance modifications to unlock the next modification tiers. Otherwise, the 2 x AIM-9E loadout is provided stock, so none of the modifications are truly vital beyond countermeasures.
 == Armaments ==
@@ Line 309: / Line 309: @@
 ;Skins
 * [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=f-104g Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
@@ Line 317: / Line 318: @@
 ;Related development
 * [[F-104 (Family)]]

← Older revision	Revision as of 12:45, 21 December 2022
(No difference)

@@ Line 115: / Line 115: @@
 While selecting which combination of countermeasures to use, the pilot should consider which missiles opponents are likely to use.
-In '''Air RB''', most missiles at this rank are IR tracking, which can be countered by flares. Less common types of missiles are semi-active radar homing, SARH (like AIM-7E); those are countered by chaff. Radar-guided missiles are usually used from longer distances, but they can easily lose tracking or be outmanoeuvred, even in the F-104; while IR missiles are launched from closer range and can pull more Gs, so flares are more desirable.
+In Air RB, most missiles at this rank are IR tracking, which can be countered by flares. Less common types of missiles are semi-active radar homing, SARH (like AIM-7E); those are countered by chaff. Radar-guided missiles are usually used from longer distances, but they can easily lose tracking or be outmanoeuvred, even in the F-104; while IR missiles are launched from closer range and can pull more Gs, so flares are more desirable.
-In '''Ground RB''', there are fewer IR guided missiles, mainly carried by some helicopters and select SPAA such as the [[Type 93]]. The biggest threat in Ground RB comes in the form of radar-equipped SPAAs, be it armed with cannons, missiles, or both. Most enemies rely on their tracking radar in order to get lead for their guns and to comfortably track your plane with missiles. Chaff confuses tracking radar, thus increasing probability of a miss, so focusing on chaff is more useful.
+In Ground RB, there are fewer IR guided missiles, mainly carried by some helicopters and select SPAA such as the [[Type 93]]. The biggest threat in Ground RB comes in the form of radar-equipped SPAAs, be it armed with cannons, missiles, or both. Most enemies rely on their tracking radar in order to get lead for their guns and to comfortably track your plane with missiles. Chaff confuses tracking radar, thus increasing probability of a miss, so focusing on chaff is more useful.
 Final note, if you fly with the afterburner while launching flares, missiles are going to ignore them and go straight for you.
@@ Line 150: / Line 150: @@
 The M61A1 is an excellent cannon at its rank, only disadvantages being the spool up time and limited ammo count relative to rate of fire.
-Armed with anti-air belts for '''Air RB''', even a short burst is fatal to any enemy aircraft, provided the burst connects.
+Armed with anti-air belts for Air RB, even a short burst is fatal to any enemy aircraft, provided the burst connects.
-The cannon excels even in '''Ground RB''' armed with armour-piercing belts, giving it 53 mm of penetration, which is enough to get through most SPAAs' and light tanks' armour and can even pierce the engine deck of T-90A (at 1000 m/73°).
+The cannon excels even in Ground RB armed with armour-piercing belts, giving it 53 mm of penetration, which is enough to get through most SPAAs' and light tanks' armour and can even pierce the engine deck of T-90A (at 1,000 m/73°).
 Last thing to note is that trigger discipline is a must.
@@ Line 179: / Line 179: @@
 * 3 x BLU-1 incendiary bombs
-For '''Air RB''', F-104G is quite limited in its options of armaments. With only two air-to-air missiles, they should not be wasted in turnfights, against agile planes, or planes that have a lot of energy. Instead, focus on enemy planes going after your teammates or planes in low energy state. Planes that lock up at higher speeds are also viable targets. The closer you get behind the enemy plane before launching, the higher your chances of hitting them are.
+For Air RB, F-104G is quite limited in its options of armaments. With only two air-to-air missiles, they should not be wasted in turnfights, against agile planes, or planes that have a lot of energy. Instead, focus on enemy planes going after your teammates or planes in low energy state. Planes that lock up at higher speeds are also viable targets. The closer you get behind the enemy plane before launching, the higher your chances of hitting them are.
-For '''Ground RB''', F-104G has access to a wide arsenal of weapons.
+For Ground RB, F-104G has access to a wide arsenal of weapons.
-Popular '''AS-20 Nords''' are practically flat trajectory 30 kg bombs that can be guided to target in MCLOS style. Their explosive payload leaves something to be desired, so the player needs to be really precise with their aiming. Also, F-104G gets only two of them. On the other hand, they have a launch range of 8 km.
+Popular AS-20 Nords are practically flat trajectory 30 kg bombs that can be guided to target in MCLOS style. Their explosive payload leaves something to be desired, so the player needs to be really precise with their aiming. Also, F-104G gets only two of them. On the other hand, they have a launch range of 8 km.
-Another option are '''M247 Hydra 70 rockets'''. While offering 290mm of penetration, they only contain 0.9 kg of explosives and plane gets 14x of them. Direct hits are must in order to achieve kill, and even with the help of ballistic computer, they are quite impractical at speeds in which F-104G usually operates.
+Another option are M247 Hydra 70 rockets. While offering 290 mm of penetration, they only contain 0.9 kg of explosives and plane gets 14 x of them. Direct hits are must in order to achieve kill, and even with the help of ballistic computer, they are quite impractical at speeds in which F-104G usually operates.
-With F-104G being equipped with ballistic computer, '''bombs''' become much more viable option. Turning on the ballistic computer allows the player to use arcade style crosshairs, so any pilot is capable of hitting ground targets with laser-like accuracy. F-104G is capable of carrying 3x bombs (1x mounted under fuselage and 2x on wing pylons) and these are dropped individually, allowing the player in theory to achieve at least 3 kills per payload. All bombs carried by F-104G are viable, so it is up to personal preference.
+With the ballistic computer, bombs become much more viable option. Turning on the ballistic computer allows the player to use arcade style crosshairs, so any pilot is capable of hitting ground targets with laser-like accuracy. F-104G is capable of carrying 3 x bombs (1 x mounted under fuselage and 2 x on wing pylons) and these are dropped individually, allowing the player in theory to achieve at least 3 kills per payload. All bombs carried by F-104G are viable, so it is up to personal preference.
 ==== Custom loadout options ====
@@ Line 307: / Line 307: @@
 == Media ==
 <!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' -->
-''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''
 == See also ==
@@ Line 313: / Line 315: @@
 * ''reference to the series of the aircraft;''
 * ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.'' -->
-* ''reference to the series of the aircraft;''
+;Related development
-* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''
+* [[F-104 (Family)]]
 == External links ==