F-104G (China) - Revision history

U40820515: /* Details */

2024-05-23T05:11:25Z

‎Details

U27038907: /* Pros and cons */

2023-12-20T04:49:14Z

‎Pros and cons

U27038907: /* Pros and cons */

2023-12-20T04:48:48Z

‎Pros and cons

U38088265: /* Suspended armament */ Updated

2023-06-18T08:48:06Z

‎Suspended armament: Updated

U38088265: Edits

2023-05-19T09:31:42Z

Edits

U4656018: Revision to description up to standards and additional information on the only aerial combat of F-104G

2023-05-14T22:52:47Z

Revision to description up to standards and additional information on the only aerial combat of F-104G

U38088265: /* Suspended armament */ Updated

2022-09-16T10:31:18Z

‎Suspended armament: Updated

U97916902: /* Pros and cons */

2022-07-01T23:06:57Z

‎Pros and cons

U38088265: /* Suspended armament */ Updated

2022-06-19T19:44:29Z

‎Suspended armament: Updated

U38088265: /* Details */

2022-06-02T13:48:12Z

‎Details

@@ Line 62: / Line 62: @@
 ! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
 |-
-| 1,527 <!-- {{Specs|destruction|body}} --> || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 827 || 444 || ~12 || ~5
+| 1,555 <!-- {{Specs|destruction|body}} --> || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 827 || 444 || ~12 || ~5
 |-
 |}

@@ Line 248: / Line 248: @@
 * Good top speed
 * Great rate of climb
-* Powerful M61 cannon with high fire rate, good damage, great velocity, and plenty of rounds (750).
+* Powerful M61 cannon with high fire rate, good damage, great velocity, and plenty of rounds
 * Significantly wider variety of payload options than early F-104s, including the potent AGM-12B Bullpup air-to-ground missiles
 * Good roll rate

@@ Line 191: / Line 191: @@
 {{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
 {{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}
 * Without load
 * 2 x AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles
@@ Line 247: / Line 248: @@
 * Good top speed
 * Great rate of climb
-* Powerful M61 cannon with high fire rate, damage and velocity
+* Powerful M61 cannon with high fire rate, good damage, great velocity, and plenty of rounds (750).
 * Significantly wider variety of payload options than early F-104s, including the potent AGM-12B Bullpup air-to-ground missiles
 * Good roll rate
@@ Line 256: / Line 257: @@
 * Very poor overall manoeuvrability and terrible low-speed manoeuvrability
 * Bleeds off airspeed quickly in sustained turns
 * Lack of countermeasures is a major handicap as the IR missiles the F-104G commonly faces are extremely difficult for it to dodge without flares

@@ Line 145: / Line 145: @@
 {{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}
 <!-- ''Describe the aircraft's suspended armament: additional cannons under the wings, bombs, rockets and torpedoes. This section is especially important for bombers and attackers. If there is no suspended weaponry remove this subsection.'' -->
-The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:
+The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:
 {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 |-
 ! !! width="6%" | 1 !! width="6%" | 2 !! width="6%" | 3 !! width="6%" | 4 !! width="6%" | 5 !! width="6%" | 6 !! width="6%" | 7
-| rowspan="11" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_F-104G.png]]</div>
+| rowspan="12" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_F-104G_(Germany).png]]</div>
 |-
-! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
+! [[Mk 82 Snakeye (500 lb)|500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye]] bombs
 | || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
 |-
-! 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs
+! [[M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|750 lb M117 cone 45]] bombs
 | || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
 |-
-! 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs
+! [[LDGP Mk 83 (1,000 lb)|1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83]] bombs
 | || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
 |-
-! BLU-1 incendiary bombs
+! [[BLU-1 incendiary]] bombs
 | || 1 || || 1* || || 1 ||
 |-
-! Hydra-70 M247 rockets
+! [[Hydra-70 M247]] rockets
 | || 7 || || || || 7 ||
 |-
-! AGM-12B Bullpup missiles
+! [[AGM-12B Bullpup]] missiles
 | || 1 || || || || 1 ||
 |-
-! AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles
+! [[AIM-9B Sidewinder]] missiles
 | 1 || || 1* || || 1* || || 1
 |-
-! AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles
+! [[AIM-9E Sidewinder]] missiles
 | 1 || || || || || || 1
 |-
-! AIM-9J Sidewinder missiles
+! [[AIM-9J Sidewinder]] missiles
 | 1 || || 1* || || 1* || || 1
 |-
@@ Line 201: / Line 186: @@
 |-
 | colspan="9" | * Ordnance on hardpoint 4 cannot be carried in conjunction with missiles on hardpoints 3/5
 |}
 == Usage in battles ==

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''', commonly referred as the '''星式戰鬥機''' (Literal translate of Starfighter) or its notorious nicknames '''寡婦製造機''' (Widowmaker) and '''飛行棺材''' (Flying Coffin) deviated from Luftwaffe, were the later variants of F-104 received through the Project Alishan (阿里山計劃) as ROCAF's replacement of earlier subsonic and F-100 fleet during the heat of cross-strait combats in 1960s. The earliest F-104G in ROCAF was accepted in 1963 with series of fresh-new jets from Lockheed and Canadair via Alishan No.2 program; some later F-104G from Luftwaffe and Danish Air Force were also delivered to ROCAF as their supplement jets. This variant was also the only ROCAF Starfighter which was involved in aerial combat with PLAAF in 1967 where sources suggested different result with 4353/64-17779 as the only loss F-104G in combat. Some F-104Gs later received recon upgrades as the TF-104G and has been used for recon missions over the coastline of Mainland China. Although being extremely obsolete by 1990s, these jets also joined the most intense CAP mission around Taiwan Island in view of the possible outbreak of war; after the introduction of F-CK-1, Mirage 2000-5Ei and [[F-16A MLU (China)|F-16 Block 20]] in ROCAF service, Starfighters were then decommissioned by ROCAF and some of these jets are now scattered around the islands as monuments or exhibits.
+The '''{{Specs|name}}''', commonly known as the "星式戰鬥機" (literal translation of "Starfighter") or by its notorious nicknames "寡婦製造機" (Widowmaker) and "飛行棺材" (Flying Coffin) derived from the Luftwaffe, was a later variant of the F-104 that was acquired by the ROCAF through Project Alishan (阿里山計劃) as a replacement for the earlier fleet of subsonics and F-100s during the intense conflicts across the strait in the 1960s. The first F-104Gs arrived in the ROCAF in 1963 through the Alishan No.2 program, with a series of new jets provided by Lockheed and Canadair. Later on, additional F-104Gs from the Luftwaffe and the Danish Air Force were also delivered to the ROCAF as supplementary jets. This particular variant of the Starfighter was the only one in the ROCAF to engage in aerial combat with the PLAAF in 1967, with sources suggesting different outcomes. 4353/64-17779 was confirmed as the only F-104G lost in combat. Some F-104Gs were later converted into reconnaissance variants, known as the TF-104G, and were used for reconnaissance missions along the coastline of Mainland China. Despite becoming extremely outdated by the 1990s, these jets continued to participate in the most intense Combat Air Patrol (CAP) missions around Taiwan Island, in preparation for the potential outbreak of war. After the introduction of the F-CK-1, Mirage 2000-5Ei, and the [[F-16A MLU (China)|F-16 Block 20]] in ROCAF service, the Starfighters were decommissioned and some are now scattered across the islands as monuments or exhibits.
-Introduced in [[Update "Starfighters"]] as one of the variant of F-104 introduced in game, the F-104 Starfighter had a long career with the Republic of China Air Force. The multi-role F-104G model, originally developed for [[F-104G|export to Germany]], is a major leap compared to the previous [[F-104A (China)|ROCAF F-104A]] and enjoys a more powerful engine and much better suspended ordnance. This Taiwanese example differs from the original F-104G by having access to the AIM-9J Sidewinder air-to-air missile and the AGM-12B Bullpup air-to-ground missile, making it one of the most formidable Starfighters in War Thunder.
+Introduced in [[Update "Starfighters"]], the multi-role F-104G model, originally developed for export to Germany, represents a significant advancement compared to the preceding ROCAF [[F-104A (China)|F-104A]]. It features a more powerful engine and an improved range of suspended ordnance. This Taiwanese example differs from the original F-104G by having access to the AIM-9J Sidewinder air-to-air missile and the AGM-12B Bullpup air-to-ground missile, making it one of the most formidable Starfighters.
 == General info ==
@@ Line 263: / Line 263: @@
 The Republic of China Air Force received its first Starfighters starting in 1960, the first batch of F-104A/Bs being from ex-USAF stock. Over the decades, subsequent batches were obtained from a wide variety of countries. The F-104G was obtained from the United States in 1964-69, from Germany in 1983, and from Denmark in 1987, totalling 99 single seaters. More than half of the total Starfighter inventory of the ROCAF consisted of the F-104G, making it the most numerically important model and also the most advanced, along with the [[F-104J]]s they had received from Japan.
-In operational service, the Starfighters were used to patrol the Straits and was the ROCAF's most capable interceptor for much of the Cold War era. ROCAF F-104Gs engaged PLAAF [[J-6A|J-6]]s in the airspace of Kinmen in January 1967 ''(which was also the latest aerial combat with PLAAF up to this date)'' and reportedly scored two kills, though one F-104 did not return to base and may have been lost ''(Note: PLAAF pilot Hu Shougen 胡寿根 claimed the victory on 4353/64-17779; while ROCAF claimed 2 victories over J-6s from their radio surveillance).'' Their service was otherwise uneventful. The early Starfighter models were retired from combat roles in the 1980s and the late models continued to serve up to 1997 with upgrades to their weaponry until new fighter jets eventually replaced them in ROCAF service.
+In operational service, the Starfighters were used to patrol the Straits and was the ROCAF's most capable interceptor for much of the Cold War era. ROCAF F-104Gs engaged PLAAF [[J-6A|J-6]]s in the airspace of Kinmen in January 1967 (the last aerial combat with the PLAAF to date) and reportedly scored two kills, though one F-104 did not return to base and may have been lost. PLAAF pilot Hu Shougen 胡寿根 claimed the victory on 4353/64-17779, while the ROCAF claimed 2 victories over J-6s from their radio surveillance. Their service was otherwise uneventful. The early Starfighter models were retired from combat roles in the 1980s and the late models continued to serve up to 1997 with upgrades to their weaponry until new fighter jets eventually replaced them in ROCAF service.
 A large number of Starfighters are preserved and on display in Taiwan today. Single-seat F-104Gs can be found at  Ching Chuang Kang Air Base, Kangshan Chinese Air Force Museum, Pingtung Air Base, and other locations. A full list can be found [https://www.i-f-s.nl/preserved-f-104s/preserved-in-taiwan/ here].

@@ Line 148: / Line 148: @@
 {{main|AGM-12B Bullpup|AIM-9B Sidewinder|AIM-9E Sidewinder|AIM-9J Sidewinder|Hydra-70 M247}}
-The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:
+The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:
 * Without load
 * 2 x AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles
 * 14 x Hydra-70 M247 rockets
 * 2 x AGM-12B Bullpup missiles
 * 3 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (1,500 lb total)
 * 3 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (2,250 lb total)
 * 3 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (3,000 lb total)
 * 3 x BLU-1 incendiary bombs
 As a fighter bomber variant of the F-104, the F-104G has vastly improved ordnance compared to the F-104A's measly pair of AIM-9Bs. For air-to-air combat, the best loadout consists of four AIM-9J Sidewinder missiles. The AIM-9Js have good range, target acquisition, and manoeuvrability. They can be fired from a fairly safe distance and score kills reliably, which is definitely helpful since the F-104G does not fare well in close-quarters dogfights.
 For ground attack, the F-104G can carry bombs, rockets, and missiles. The largest bombload consists of three 1000 lb bombs. The only rockets it has access to are Hydra-70s with decent penetration but low explosive mass and ammo count. The real stars of the show for tank busting are the pair of AGM-12B Bullpup air-to-ground missiles. These have a warhead twice as large as the AS-20 Nords carried by the German F-104G and require less precision to score a kill. However they fly significantly slower, which can either be a good or bad quality depending on one's skill with manual guidance. Two AIM-9J Sidewinders can be carried in addition to the Bullups to round out the loadout.
 == Usage in battles ==
@@ Line 216: / Line 241: @@
 * Good top speed
 * Great rate of climb
 * Powerful M61 cannon with high fire rate, damage and velocity
 * Significantly wider variety of payload options than early F-104s, including the potent AGM-12B Bullpup air-to-ground missiles
 * Good roll rate
 * Can carry a total of four effective AIM-9J missiles

@@ Line 214: / Line 214: @@
 === Pros and cons ===
 <!-- ''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in the bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".'' -->
+* Good top speed
-'''Pros:'''
+* Great rate of climb
+* Powerful M61 cannon with high fire rate, damage and velocity
-* Very high speed compared to its peers
+* Significantly wider variety of payload options than early F-104s, including the potent AGM-12B Bullpup air-to-ground missiles
 * Good roll rate
 '''Cons:'''
-* Very poor manoeuvrability at low speeds
+* Very poor overall manoeuvrability and terrible low-speed manoeuvrability
-* Bleeds speed in turns
+* Bleeds off airspeed quickly in sustained turns
-* No flares, hard to evade missiles
+* Only 750 rounds of cannon ammo, trigger discipline is a must
 == History ==
@@ Line 246: / Line 245: @@
 ;Skins
 * [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=f-104g_china Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
@@ Line 259: / Line 259: @@
 * ''reference to the series of the aircraft;''
 * ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.'' -->
 ;Other F-104Gs
 * [[F-104G]]
 * [[F-104G (Italy)]]