Carmi (PC-466) - Revision history

U44629479: Undo revision 169755 by U22067555 (talk)

2023-08-23T08:56:18Z

Undo revision 169755 by U22067555 (talk)

U22067555: re-added initial vehicle info

2023-08-23T08:55:47Z

re-added initial vehicle info

U44629479: Undo revision 158070 by U20043873 (talk)

2023-03-10T12:59:19Z

Undo revision 158070 by U20043873 (talk)

U20043873: made description inline with other pages, moved some of the historical stuff there to history

2023-03-10T12:49:52Z

made description inline with other pages, moved some of the historical stuff there to history

U38088265: /* Ammunition */ Converted to transclusion

2023-03-05T22:03:03Z

‎Ammunition: Converted to transclusion

U38088265: /* Description */

2023-03-05T22:01:37Z

‎Description

U38088265: /* Description */

2023-03-05T22:01:21Z

‎Description

U44982996 at 15:51, 3 March 2023

2023-03-03T15:51:42Z

U44982996: added description

2023-03-03T15:51:23Z

added description

U69651212: Grammar edits

2022-10-26T18:30:42Z

Grammar edits

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 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the first part of the description, cover the history of the ship's creation and military application. In the second part, tell the reader about using this ship in the game. Add a screenshot: if a beginner player has a hard time remembering vehicles by name, a picture will help them identify the ship in question.'' -->
 The ''PC-461''-class submarine chasers were a class of 343 ships built for the United States Navy. Their design was primarily based on the experimental [[PC-451]] and PC-452 submarine chasers. The class saw extensive use in most theatres of World War II, either under the US flag or other Allied countries under the Lend-Lease program. While the class was not particularly successful in its intended role, being confirmed to have sunk only one submarine throughout the war, they found more success as a gunboat, as such were frequently deployed to support landing operations, including Normandy. After the war, the ships were later used by 22 countries around the world, primarily as coastal and riverine patrol vessels.
 USS ''PC-466'', later renamed ''Carmi'' in 1958, was one of the numerous ''PC-461'' class submarine chasers. She is notable for being one of the ships present at the formal surrender of Japan on 2 September, 1945.
-The Carmi is more specialized in long range fire support, unlike the other early American sub-chasers, owing to her armaments of two 3-inch (76 mm) guns. As she is frequently matched against fast and manoeuvrable PT boats, these weapons can be quite hard to handle at first. However, as the guns pack considerable punch for their BR, along with her durable steel hull, she is capable of going toe-to-toe even against a much superior foe at higher BR when handled correctly.
+Introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]], the Carmi is more specialized in long range fire support, unlike the other early American sub-chasers, owing to her armaments of two 3-inch (76 mm) guns. As she is frequently matched against fast and manoeuvrable PT boats, these weapons can be quite hard to handle at first. However, as the guns pack considerable punch for their BR, along with her durable steel hull, she is capable of going toe-to-toe even against a much superior foe at higher BR when handled correctly.
 == General info ==

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the first part of the description, cover the history of the ship's creation and military application. In the second part, tell the reader about using this ship in the game. Add a screenshot: if a beginner player has a hard time remembering vehicles by name, a picture will help them identify the ship in question.'' -->
 The ''PC-461''-class submarine chasers were a class of 343 ships built for the United States Navy. Their design was primarily based on the experimental [[PC-451]] and PC-452 submarine chasers. The class saw extensive use in most theatres of World War II, either under the US flag or other Allied countries under the Lend-Lease program. While the class was not particularly successful in its intended role, being confirmed to have sunk only one submarine throughout the war, they found more success as a gunboat, as such were frequently deployed to support landing operations, including Normandy. After the war, the ships were later used by 22 countries around the world, primarily as coastal and riverine patrol vessels.
 USS ''PC-466'', later renamed ''Carmi'' in 1958, was one of the numerous ''PC-461'' class submarine chasers. She is notable for being one of the ships present at the formal surrender of Japan on 2 September, 1945.
-Introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]], the Carmi is more specialized in long range fire support, unlike the other early American sub-chasers, owing to her armaments of two 3-inch (76 mm) guns. As she is frequently matched against fast and manoeuvrable PT boats, these weapons can be quite hard to handle at first. However, as the guns pack considerable punch for their BR, along with her durable steel hull, she is capable of going toe-to-toe even against a much superior foe at higher BR when handled correctly.
+The Carmi is more specialized in long range fire support, unlike the other early American sub-chasers, owing to her armaments of two 3-inch (76 mm) guns. As she is frequently matched against fast and manoeuvrable PT boats, these weapons can be quite hard to handle at first. However, as the guns pack considerable punch for their BR, along with her durable steel hull, she is capable of going toe-to-toe even against a much superior foe at higher BR when handled correctly.
 == General info ==

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the first part of the description, cover the history of the ship's creation and military application. In the second part, tell the reader about using this ship in the game. Add a screenshot: if a beginner player has a hard time remembering vehicles by name, a picture will help them identify the ship in question.'' -->
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium rank {{Specs|rank}} American sub-chaser {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]].
+The ''PC-461''-class submarine chasers were a class of 343 ships built for the United States Navy. Their design was primarily based on the experimental [[PC-451]] and PC-452 submarine chasers. The class saw extensive use in most theatres of World War II, either under the US flag or other Allied countries under the Lend-Lease program. While the class was not particularly successful in its intended role, being confirmed to have sunk only one submarine throughout the war, they found more success as a gunboat, as such were frequently deployed to support landing operations, including Normandy. After the war, the ships were later used by 22 countries around the world, primarily as coastal and riverine patrol vessels.
-The Carmi is more specialized in long range fire support compared to the other early American sub-chasers, owing to her armaments of two 3-inch (76 mm) guns. As she is frequently matched against fast and manoeuvrable PT boats, these weapons can be quite hard to handle at first. However, as the guns pack considerable punch for their BR, along with her durable steel hull, she is capable of going toe-to-toe even against a much superior foe at higher BR when handled correctly.
+Introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]], the Carmi is more specialized in long range fire support, unlike the other early American sub-chasers, owing to her armaments of two 3-inch (76 mm) guns. As she is frequently matched against fast and manoeuvrable PT boats, these weapons can be quite hard to handle at first. However, as the guns pack considerable punch for their BR, along with her durable steel hull, she is capable of going toe-to-toe even against a much superior foe at higher BR when handled correctly.
 == General info ==
@@ Line 83: / Line 85: @@
 <!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ship in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the ship and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Ship-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the ship's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
-The ''PC-461''-class submarine chasers were a class of 343 ships built for the United States Navy. Their design was primarily based on the experimental [[PC-451]] and PC-452 submarine chasers. The class saw extensive use in most theatres of World War II, either under the US flag or other Allied countries under the Lend-Lease program. While the class was not particularly successful in its intended role, being confirmed to have sunk only one submarine throughout the war, they found more success as a gunboat, as such were frequently deployed to support landing operations, including Normandy. After the war, the ships were later used by 22 countries around the world, primarily as coastal and riverine patrol vessels.
+The ship was laid down on September 1, 1941 by George Lawley and Sons in Neponset, Massachusetts. It was launched on April 29, 1942, and was named the '''USS PC-466'''. It was originally classified as a submarine chaser, but was re-designated as a control submarine chaser on August 20, 1945, and was named the USS PCC-466. During the Japanese surrender, the USS PCC-466 was present in Tokyo Bay, in September 1945. It was decommissioned on March 1, 1947 and was sent to the Pacific Reserve Fleet, Columbia River Group, in Astoria, Oregon. It was once more classified as a submarine chaser, PC-466, on October 27, 1955. It was named the '''Carmi''' on February 1, 1956, and was sold for scrap in 1960.
 The ship had a displacement of 280 t, a length of 173 ft 8 in, a beam of 23 ft, and a draft of 10 ft 10 in. It was powered by two 1,440 bhp Fairbanks Morse 38D8 1/8 diesel engines, and featured a Westinghouse single reduction gear, and had two shafts. The armament consisted of one 3"/50 dual-purpose gun mount, one 40 mm gun mount, three 20 mm guns, two rocket launchers, four depth charge projectors, and two depth charge racks. The crew complement was 65 sailors and officers, and the maximum speed was 20.2 knots.

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the first part of the description, cover the history of the ship's creation and military application. In the second part, tell the reader about using this ship in the game. Add a screenshot: if a beginner player has a hard time remembering vehicles by name, a picture will help them identify the ship in question.'' -->
-The ''PC-461''-class submarine chasers were a class of 343 ships built for the United States Navy. Their design was primarily based on the experimental [[PC-451]] and PC-452 submarine chasers. The class saw extensive use in most theatres of World War II, either under the US flag or other Allied countries under the Lend-Lease program. While the class was not particularly successful in its intended role, being confirmed to have sunk only one submarine throughout the war, they found more success as a gunboat, as such were frequently deployed to support landing operations, including Normandy. After the war, the ships were later used by 22 countries around the world, primarily as coastal and riverine patrol vessels.
+The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium rank {{Specs|rank}} American sub-chaser {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]].
-Introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]], the Carmi is more specialized in long range fire support, unlike the other early American sub-chasers, owing to her armaments of two 3-inch (76 mm) guns. As she is frequently matched against fast and manoeuvrable PT boats, these weapons can be quite hard to handle at first. However, as the guns pack considerable punch for their BR, along with her durable steel hull, she is capable of going toe-to-toe even against a much superior foe at higher BR when handled correctly.
+The Carmi is more specialized in long range fire support compared to the other early American sub-chasers, owing to her armaments of two 3-inch (76 mm) guns. As she is frequently matched against fast and manoeuvrable PT boats, these weapons can be quite hard to handle at first. However, as the guns pack considerable punch for their BR, along with her durable steel hull, she is capable of going toe-to-toe even against a much superior foe at higher BR when handled correctly.
 == General info ==
@@ Line 85: / Line 83: @@
 <!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ship in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the ship and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Ship-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the ship's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
-The ship was laid down on September 1, 1941 by George Lawley and Sons in Neponset, Massachusetts. It was launched on April 29, 1942, and was named the '''USS PC-466'''. It was originally classified as a submarine chaser, but was re-designated as a control submarine chaser on August 20, 1945, and was named the USS PCC-466. During the Japanese surrender, the USS PCC-466 was present in Tokyo Bay, in September 1945. It was decommissioned on March 1, 1947 and was sent to the Pacific Reserve Fleet, Columbia River Group, in Astoria, Oregon. It was once more classified as a submarine chaser, PC-466, on October 27, 1955. It was named the '''Carmi''' on February 1, 1956, and was sold for scrap in 1960.
+The ''PC-461''-class submarine chasers were a class of 343 ships built for the United States Navy. Their design was primarily based on the experimental [[PC-451]] and PC-452 submarine chasers. The class saw extensive use in most theatres of World War II, either under the US flag or other Allied countries under the Lend-Lease program. While the class was not particularly successful in its intended role, being confirmed to have sunk only one submarine throughout the war, they found more success as a gunboat, as such were frequently deployed to support landing operations, including Normandy. After the war, the ships were later used by 22 countries around the world, primarily as coastal and riverine patrol vessels.
 The ship had a displacement of 280 t, a length of 173 ft 8 in, a beam of 23 ft, and a draft of 10 ft 10 in. It was powered by two 1,440 bhp Fairbanks Morse 38D8 1/8 diesel engines, and featured a Westinghouse single reduction gear, and had two shafts. The armament consisted of one 3"/50 dual-purpose gun mount, one 40 mm gun mount, three 20 mm guns, two rocket launchers, four depth charge projectors, and two depth charge racks. The crew complement was 65 sailors and officers, and the maximum speed was 20.2 knots.

@@ Line 39: / Line 39: @@
 The PC-466 Carmi has access to two 76 mm Mk 10 guns as its main armament. The Mk 10 gun is a great main gun for low tier naval battles, being capable of crippling or outright destroying many coastal ships with a single hit. However, this gun is an early version and lacks the full automatic fire of later American 76 mm cannons. The gun gets access to three shells - HE, AP and HE-VT. Of these shells, the HE shell is almost always the best choice, packing the largest punch against enemy boats. Despite this, it is wise to bring a bit of the other shells, for use against aircraft and armoured vessels.
 === Secondary armament ===
@@ Line 46: / Line 48: @@
 The PC-466 Carmi has access to two single 20 mm Oerlikon cannons for anti-aircraft defence. The 20 mm Oerlikon cannon was the standard light anti-aircraft gun for several nations, including the United States, and replaced the prior AN/M2 Browning machine gun. This weapon is an effective short-range AA gun, and has great firing angles. The weapon has access to three belts - Default, AP and HE. Of these, the HE belt is by far the most effective against boats and aircraft due to its high explosive mass. As well, the guns fire from a drum magazine that will need to be reloaded. Because of the magazine design, the gun will not jam with continuous fire.
 === Additional armament ===

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium rank {{Specs|rank}} American sub-chaser {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]].
-The ''PC-461''-class submarine chaser were a clas of 343 ships built for the United States Navy. Their design were primarily based on the experimental [[PC-451]] and PC-452 submarine chasers. The class saw extensive uses in most theatres of the World War II, either under the US flag or other allied countries under the Lend-Lease program. While the class is not as successful in its intended role, being confirmed to sunk only one submarine throughout the war. They found more success as a gunboat, as such were frequently deployed to support landing operations, including Normandy. After the war, the ship were later used by 22 countries around the world, primarily as coastal and riverine patrol vessel.
+The ''PC-461''-class submarine chaser were a class of 343 ships built for the United States Navy. Their design were primarily based on the experimental [[PC-451]] and PC-452 submarine chasers. The class saw extensive uses in most theatres of the World War II, either under the US flag or other allied countries under the Lend-Lease program. While the class is not as successful in its intended role, being confirmed to sunk only one submarine throughout the war. They found more success as a gunboat, as such were frequently deployed to support landing operations, including Normandy. After the war, the ship were later used by 22 countries around the world, primarily as coastal and riverine patrol vessel.
 USS ''PC-466'', later renamed ''Carmi'' in 1958, was one of the numerous of the ''PC-461'' class submarine chaser. She is notable for being one of the ship present at the formal surrender of Japan on 2 September, 1945.

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 <!-- ''In the first part of the description, cover the history of the ship's creation and military application. In the second part, tell the reader about using this ship in the game. Add a screenshot: if a beginner player has a hard time remembering vehicles by name, a picture will help them identify the ship in question.'' -->
 The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium rank {{Specs|rank}} American sub-chaser {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]].
 == General info ==
@@ Line 12: / Line 18: @@
 {{Specs-Fleet-Armour}}
 <!-- ''Talk about the vehicle's armour. Note the most well-defended and most vulnerable zones, e.g. the ammo magazine. Evaluate the composition of components and assemblies responsible for movement and manoeuvrability. Evaluate the survivability of the primary and secondary armaments separately. Don't forget to mention the size of the crew, which plays an important role in fleet mechanics. Save tips on preserving survivability for the "Usage in battles" section. If necessary, use a graphical template to show the most well-protected or most vulnerable points in the armour.'' -->
-The Carmi is comparably similar to the [[PC-451]]. Her armour and large size provides good protection against machine guns and can resist 20 mm autocannons when angled properly. The Carmi is longer than the PC-451, which gives her more crew space to accommodate 65 sailors (19 men more than the PC-451) while also being a larger target. When used properly, the Carmi is able to hold on her own against coastal boats at higher ranks.
+The Carmi is comparably similar to the [[PC-451]]. Her steel hull, armour, and large size provides good protection against machine guns and can resist 20 mm autocannons when angled properly. The Carmi is longer than the PC-451, which gives her more crew space to accommodate 65 sailors (19 men more than the PC-451) while also being a larger target. When used properly, the Carmi is able to hold on her own against coastal boats at higher ranks.
 === Mobility ===

@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 {{Specs-Fleet-Armour}}
 <!-- ''Talk about the vehicle's armour. Note the most well-defended and most vulnerable zones, e.g. the ammo magazine. Evaluate the composition of components and assemblies responsible for movement and manoeuvrability. Evaluate the survivability of the primary and secondary armaments separately. Don't forget to mention the size of the crew, which plays an important role in fleet mechanics. Save tips on preserving survivability for the "Usage in battles" section. If necessary, use a graphical template to show the most well-protected or most vulnerable points in the armour.'' -->
-The Carmi is comparably similar to the [[PC-451]]. Her armour and large size provides good protection against machine guns and can resist 20 mm autocannons when angled properly. The Carmi is longer than the PC-451, which gives her more crew space to accomodate 65 sailors (19 men more than the PC-451) while also being a larger target. When used properly, the Carmi is able to hold on her own against coastal boats at higher ranks.
+The Carmi is comparably similar to the [[PC-451]]. Her armour and large size provides good protection against machine guns and can resist 20 mm autocannons when angled properly. The Carmi is longer than the PC-451, which gives her more crew space to accommodate 65 sailors (19 men more than the PC-451) while also being a larger target. When used properly, the Carmi is able to hold on her own against coastal boats at higher ranks.
 === Mobility ===
@@ Line 48: / Line 48: @@
 {{main|Mk.6 depth charge}}
-This ship can be armed with depth charges, once they are researched. These come pre-armed with a 3 second fuse, and once dropped in the water will explode after this time. You can adjust the fuse time in the menu in the Battle Lobby when you select the ship. Depth charges can come in quite handy if you have a boat or ship close on your aft and you can't turn around to shoot them. This type of situation comes up mainly at Capture Points when there are multiple enemy ships or boats trying to capture the point and destroy you. Just get pointed straight and drop 2-3 of them behind you. (Left-Ctrl by default). Even if the boat or ship is fast, the charge will either break their hull or cause significant damage to the vessel, allowing you to get away or turn around.
+This ship can be armed with depth charges, once they are researched. These come pre-armed with a 3-second fuse, and once dropped in the water will explode after this time. You can adjust the fuse time in the menu in the Battle Lobby when you select the ship. Depth charges can come in quite handy if you have a boat or ship close on your aft, and you can't turn around to shoot them. This type of situation comes up mainly at Capture Points when there are multiple enemy ships or boats trying to capture the point and destroy you. Just get pointed straight and drop 2-3 of them behind you. (Left-Ctrl by default). Even if the boat or ship is fast, the charge will either break their hull or cause significant damage to the vessel, allowing you to get away or turn around.
 == Usage in battles ==
 <!-- ''Describe the technique of using this ship, the characteristics of her use in a team and tips on strategy. Abstain from writing an entire guide – don't try to provide a single point of view, but give the reader food for thought. Talk about the most dangerous opponents for this vehicle and provide recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of playing with this vehicle in various modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
-The Carmi performs best at longer range (~2 km) where she can outrange most of the PT boats and is less vulnerable to flanking. Her 76 mm guns can be a bit tricky to use at first, especially against fast PT boats. But it does have a great damage output. Situational awareness is a key of success of playing this boat, as knowing when to switch between the 76 mm and 20 mm guns can be rewarding.
+The Carmi performs best at longer range (~2 km) where she can outrange most of the PT boats and is less vulnerable to flanking. Her 76 mm guns can be a bit tricky to use at first, especially against fast PT boats. But it does have great damage output. Situational awareness is a key of success of playing this boat, as knowing when to switch between the 76 mm and 20 mm guns can be rewarding.
 === Pros and cons ===
@@ Line 64: / Line 64: @@
 '''Cons:'''
 * Mediocre top speed
 * Very large target
@@ Line 72: / Line 73: @@
 <!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ship in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the ship and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Ship-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the ship's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
-The ship was laid down on September 1, 1941 by George Lawley and Sons in Neponset, Massachusetts. It was launched on April 29, 1942, and was named the '''USS PC-466'''. It was originally classified as a submarine chaser, but was re-designated as a control submarine chaser on August 20, 1945, and was named the USS PCC-466. During the Japanese surrender the USS PCC-466 was present in Tokyo Bay, in September of 1945. It was decommissioned on March 1, 1947 and was sent to the Pacific Reserve Fleet, Columbia River Group, in Astoria, Oregon. It was once more classified as a submarine chaser, PC-466, on October 27, 1955. It was named the '''Carmi''' on February 1, 1956, and was sold for scrap in 1960.
+The ship was laid down on September 1, 1941 by George Lawley and Sons in Neponset, Massachusetts. It was launched on April 29, 1942, and was named the '''USS PC-466'''. It was originally classified as a submarine chaser, but was re-designated as a control submarine chaser on August 20, 1945, and was named the USS PCC-466. During the Japanese surrender, the USS PCC-466 was present in Tokyo Bay, in September 1945. It was decommissioned on March 1, 1947 and was sent to the Pacific Reserve Fleet, Columbia River Group, in Astoria, Oregon. It was once more classified as a submarine chaser, PC-466, on October 27, 1955. It was named the '''Carmi''' on February 1, 1956, and was sold for scrap in 1960.
-The ship had a displacement of 280 t, a length of 173 ft 8 in, a beam of 23 ft, and a draft of 10 ft 10 in. It was powered by two 1,440 bhp Fairbanks Morse 38D8 1/8 diesel engines, and featured a Westinghouse single reduction gear, and had two shafts. The armament consisted of one 3"/50 dual purpose gun mount, one 40 mm gun mount, three 20 mm guns, two rocket launchers, four depth charge projectors, and two depth charge racks. The crew complement was 65 sailors and officers, and the maximum speed was 20.2 knots.
+The ship had a displacement of 280 t, a length of 173 ft 8 in, a beam of 23 ft, and a draft of 10 ft 10 in. It was powered by two 1,440 bhp Fairbanks Morse 38D8 1/8 diesel engines, and featured a Westinghouse single reduction gear, and had two shafts. The armament consisted of one 3"/50 dual-purpose gun mount, one 40 mm gun mount, three 20 mm guns, two rocket launchers, four depth charge projectors, and two depth charge racks. The crew complement was 65 sailors and officers, and the maximum speed was 20.2 knots.
 == Media ==
@@ Line 80: / Line 81: @@
 ;Skins
 * [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=us_pc_466_carmi Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]