Achilles (65 Rg.) - Revision history

U44629479: Edits

2024-05-02T04:25:00Z

Edits

U42858531: /* Usage in battles */ add description on in the fight against R3t20 FA-HS because after the 05/2024 update she had a much higher battle rate than the old 3.3 she participated in

2024-05-01T21:34:26Z

‎Usage in battles: add description on in the fight against R3t20 FA-HS because after the 05/2024 update she had a much higher battle rate than the old 3.3 she participated in

U31139476: /* Description */

2023-06-09T19:36:26Z

‎Description

U141562625 at 19:02, 9 June 2023

2023-06-09T19:02:28Z

U141562625 at 19:01, 9 June 2023

2023-06-09T19:01:18Z

U141562625 at 18:59, 9 June 2023

2023-06-09T18:59:38Z

U141562625 at 18:57, 9 June 2023

2023-06-09T18:57:04Z

U44629479: Merged edits

2023-05-20T18:02:54Z

Merged edits

U44629479: Undo revision 163091 by U127172829 (talk)

2023-05-20T17:50:48Z

Undo revision 163091 by U127172829 (talk)

Show changes

U127172829: Some minor spelling errors, amount of ammo for commanders machine gun changed (300 to 400), and a few links added.

2023-05-20T17:36:34Z

Some minor spelling errors, amount of ammo for commanders machine gun changed (300 to 400), and a few links added.

Show changes

@@ Line 149: / Line 149: @@
 '''Enemies worth noting:'''
-[[R3 T20 FA-HS]]: this vehicle is the exact opposite tank when comparing to an Achilles: extremely high top speed, great traverse and fast gun rotation. A well-manoeuvred R3 can easily circle around the Achilles and shoot AP shells through the thin side, while the Achilles struggles to get the gun on target even when traversing the hull with the gun. If you know an R3 is around, you better turn your hull towards the possible direction and be ready to engage. Move the hull with the gun to target quicker. Even if you miss, the M2 Browning can still penetrate the R3 and knock out its crews. Note that a side shot on the R3 does not guarantee a kill as the crew are pretty separated. The R3 can run away and repair for another attack. A frontal shot, however, is likely to knock it out with a single shot as the crew members are all lined up. However, after the  [https://forum.warthunder.com/t/planned-battle-rating-changes-for-april-2024/97071 Battle Rating changes for April 2024] it became a 6.0 vehicle in realistic mode. Which makes it much easier to play with vehicles like Achilles.
+* [[8,8 cm Flak 37 Sfl.]]: also known as the "Flak truck", it is rather hard to knock out due to the fact that its armour is so thin that almost every shell will over-penetrate, dealing almost no critical damage. Plus this vehicle mostly face their side to the targets, making it even harder to kill them as the crew are all far apart. So it can usually take quite some hits and take out the shooters one by one. As the shooter, aim for the left side of its turret first to disable its gunner first, then knock out the rest of its crew (right turret & driving compartment). Do not hope that the M2 HB can kill the crews, the Flak truck's armour is too thick for any MG to penetrate.
 === Pros and cons ===

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 '''Enemies worth noting:'''
-[[R3 T20 FA-HS]]: this vehicle is the exact opposite tank when comparing to an Achilles: extremely high top speed, great traverse and fast gun rotation. A well-manoeuvred R3 can easily circle around the Achilles and shoot AP shells through the thin side, while the Achilles struggles to get the gun on target even when traversing the hull with the gun. If you know an R3 is around, you better turn your hull towards the possible direction and be ready to engage. Move the hull with the gun to target quicker. Even if you miss, the M2 Browning can still penetrate the R3 and knock out its crews. Note that a side shot on the R3 does not guarantee a kill as the crew are pretty separated. The R3 can run away and repair for another attack. A frontal shot, however, is likely to knock it out with a single shot as the crew members are all lined up.
+[[R3 T20 FA-HS]]: this vehicle is the exact opposite tank when comparing to an Achilles: extremely high top speed, great traverse and fast gun rotation. A well-manoeuvred R3 can easily circle around the Achilles and shoot AP shells through the thin side, while the Achilles struggles to get the gun on target even when traversing the hull with the gun. If you know an R3 is around, you better turn your hull towards the possible direction and be ready to engage. Move the hull with the gun to target quicker. Even if you miss, the M2 Browning can still penetrate the R3 and knock out its crews. Note that a side shot on the R3 does not guarantee a kill as the crew are pretty separated. The R3 can run away and repair for another attack. A frontal shot, however, is likely to knock it out with a single shot as the crew members are all lined up. However, after the  [https://forum.warthunder.com/t/planned-battle-rating-changes-for-april-2024/97071 Battle Rating changes for April 2024] it became a 6.0 vehicle in realistic mode. Which makes it much easier to play with vehicles like Achilles.
 [[8,8 cm Flak 37 Sfl.]]: also known as the "Flak truck", it is rather hard to knock out due to the fact that its armour is so thin that almost every shell will over-penetrate, dealing almost no critical damage. Plus this vehicle mostly face their side to the targets, making it even harder to kill them as the crew are all far apart. So it can usually take quite some hits and take out the shooters one by one. As the shooter, aim for the left side of its turret first to disable its gunner first, then knock out the rest of its crew (right turret & driving compartment). Do not hope that the M2 HB can kill the crews, the Flak truck's armour is too thick for any MG to penetrate.

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 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (shortened to '''{{specs|pseudonym}}''', full name '''17 pounder, Self-Propelled M10 Achilles (65th Anti-Tank Regiment)''') is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} British tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced as a [[wt:en/news/3472--en|premium pack]] in [[Update 1.53 "Firestorm"]] and removed from the store after the [[wt:en/news/4684-vday-victory-day-discounts-en/|2017 Victory Day sale]]. It has also been obtainable in the [[Warbonds|Warbond]] shop in [[wt:en/news/5243--en|January 2018]], [[wt:en/news/5858-news-how-can-you-get-premium-vehicles-warbonds-en|November 2018]] and [[wt:en/news/6463-news-how-can-you-get-premium-vehicles-warbonds-en|November 2019]]. It was also made available briefly in the store during the [[wt:en/news/6759/current|2020 D-Day sale]] and 2023 D-Day sale.
+The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (shortened to '''{{specs|pseudonym}}''', full name '''17 pounder, Self-Propelled M10 Achilles (65th Anti-Tank Regiment)''') is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} British tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced as a [[wt:en/news/3472--en|premium pack]] in [[Update 1.53 "Firestorm"]] and removed from the store after the [[wt:en/news/4684-vday-victory-day-discounts-en/|2017 Victory Day sale]]. It has also been obtainable in the [[Warbonds|Warbond]] shop in [[wt:en/news/5243--en|January 2018]], [[wt:en/news/5858-news-how-can-you-get-premium-vehicles-warbonds-en|November 2018]] and [[wt:en/news/6463-news-how-can-you-get-premium-vehicles-warbonds-en|November 2019]]. It was also made available briefly in the store during the [[wt:en/news/6759/current|2020 D-Day sale]] and [[wt:en/news/8306-special-vehicles-of-d-day-for-golden-eagles-en|2023 D-Day sale]].
 It was one of the first British tanks introduced in the game as an Achilles tank destroyer with the insignia of 7th Armored Division, 65th Anti-Tank Regiment "Norfolk Yeomanry".
@@ Line 201: / Line 201: @@
 ;Skins
 * [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=uk_17_pdr_m10_achilles_norfolk_yeomanry Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
 == See also ==
 ''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
 * ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
 * ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

@@ Line 134: / Line 134: @@
 <!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
-The Achilles is best used for sniping and shoot and scoot tactics. Find a good spot where to shoot at enemies, aim carefully (RB need a good use of mils range estimation) and enjoy the fireworks! To make full use of its decent sniping capacity, find a spot that:
+The Achilles is best used for sniping and shoot and scoot tactics. Find a good spot to shoot at enemies, aim carefully (RB need a good use of mils range estimation) and enjoy the fireworks! To make full use of its decent sniping capacity, find a spot that:
 * overlooks key passageway / street / battle area

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 It was one of the first British tanks introduced in the game as an Achilles tank destroyer with the insignia of 7th Armored Division, 65th Anti-Tank Regiment "Norfolk Yeomanry".
-The [[Achilles]] is based on the American [[M10 GMC]], but carries a [[Ordnance QF 17-pounder (76 mm)|17-pounder]] cannon as the main armament, making it an effective tank destroyer. Thanks to a well assigned BR, the Achilles won't feel in the wrong game even when facing higher rank tanks. The Achilles has plenty of firepower, as the Mk.8 APCBC shot is more effective against the [[T-34 (1942)|T-34]]'s sloped armour. The 17-pdr cuts through enemy [[Pz.III M|Panzer III]] and [[Pz.IV H|IV]] (the shots enter the front and exit from the rear) so try to aim vital points to cause the maximum damage (first shot to the turret to disable enemy firepower). The T-34 is a bigger problem due to its sloped armour. When facing Soviet tanks, the first shot should always be to the gunner. The Mk.8 APCBC is quite able to penetrate the T-34 glacis even from a distance but keep in mind that the damage caused is unreliable (sometimes two or more shots are required to destroy a T-34, sometimes one shot is enough). The M10 mobility is not outstanding, but the Achilles is pretty capable to carry the player, the gun, and the team to where it needs to go.
+The [[Achilles]] is based on the American [[M10 GMC]], but carries a [[Ordnance QF 17-pounder (76 mm)|17-pounder]] cannon as the main armament, making it an effective tank destroyer. Thanks to a well assigned BR, the Achilles won't feel in the wrong game even when facing higher rank tanks. The Achilles has plenty of firepower, as the Mk.8 APCBC shot is more effective against the [[T-34 (1942)|T-34]]'s sloped armour. The 17-pdr cuts through enemy [[Pz.III M|Panzer III]] and [[Pz.IV H|IV]] (the shots enter the front and exit from the rear) so try to aim vital points to cause the maximum damage (first shot to the turret to disable enemy firepower). The T-34 is a bigger problem due to its sloped armour. When facing Soviet tanks, the first shot should always be to the gunner. The Mk.8 APCBC is quite able to penetrate the T-34 glacis even from a distance but keep in mind that the damage caused is unreliable (sometimes two or more shots are required to destroy a T-34). The M10 mobility is not outstanding, but the Achilles is pretty capable to carry the player, the gun, and the team to where it needs to go.
 Protection is not good. The sloped armour and the track links added to the front will protect the Achilles from some low calibre shots, but the vast majority of the enemies will be able to destroy the Achilles easily. Side armour is paper thin. The high profile and the very slow turret traverse (man-powered) are not suitable for close range combat so avoid deep flanking tactics.

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 == Description ==
 <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
-The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (shortened to '''{{specs|pseudonym}}''', full name '''17 pounder, Self-Propelled M10 Achilles (65th Anti-Tank Regiment)''') is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} British tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced as a [[wt:en/news/3472--en|premium pack]] in [[Update 1.53 "Firestorm"]] and removed from the store after the [[wt:en/news/4684-vday-victory-day-discounts-en/|2017 Victory Day sale]]. It has also been obtainable in the Warbond shop in [[wt:en/news/5243--en|January 2018]], [[wt:en/news/5858-news-how-can-you-get-premium-vehicles-warbonds-en|November 2018]] and [[wt:en/news/6463-news-how-can-you-get-premium-vehicles-warbonds-en|November 2019]]. It was also made available briefly in the store during the [[wt:en/news/6759/current|2020 D-Day sale]].
+The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (shortened to '''{{specs|pseudonym}}''', full name '''17 pounder, Self-Propelled M10 Achilles (65th Anti-Tank Regiment)''') is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} British tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced as a [[wt:en/news/3472--en|premium pack]] in [[Update 1.53 "Firestorm"]] and removed from the store after the [[wt:en/news/4684-vday-victory-day-discounts-en/|2017 Victory Day sale]]. It has also been obtainable in the [[Warbonds|Warbond]] shop in [[wt:en/news/5243--en|January 2018]], [[wt:en/news/5858-news-how-can-you-get-premium-vehicles-warbonds-en|November 2018]] and [[wt:en/news/6463-news-how-can-you-get-premium-vehicles-warbonds-en|November 2019]]. It was also made available briefly in the store during the [[wt:en/news/6759/current|2020 D-Day sale]].
 It was one of the first British tanks introduced in the game as an Achilles tank destroyer with the insignia of 7th Armored Division, 65th Anti-Tank Regiment "Norfolk Yeomanry".
@@ Line 177: / Line 177: @@
 * Handling is poor on some rough terrain before mobility modifications are researched
 * Reverse speed is bad
-* Low ammo reserve for Commander's machine gun (300 rds total)
+* Limited ammo count for the commander's machine gun
 == History ==
@@ Line 186: / Line 186: @@
 ===British Use===
-These M10s were given out to America's allies, though the British were the most well-known of these users, receiving about 1,650 M10s from the Americans from 1943 onward. The British designated the M10s under their service as the '''Achilles''' and unlike popular usage, was called that for both the 3-inch gun variant (''Achilles I/II'') and the variant mounting the 17-pounder (''Achillies Ic / IIc''). Though in most usage, the vehicle was called the ''17pdr M10'', or ''17pdr SP M10'', or even the ''"Firefly"'', despite that name being used for a different design.
+These M10s were given out to America's allies, though the British were the most well-known of these users, receiving about 1,650 M10s from the Americans from 1943 onward. The British designated the M10s under their service as the '''Achilles''' and unlike popular usage, was called that for both the 3-inch gun variant (''Achilles I/II'') and the variant mounting the 17-pounder (''Achilles Ic / IIc''). Though in most usage, the vehicle was called the ''17pdr M10'', or ''17pdr SP M10'', or even the ''"Firefly"'', despite that name being used for a different design.
 The British first received the M10s with the 3-inch cannons, which were much more powerful than the British tank armament at the time, giving them an edge in many tank confrontations in the North African Campaign. It was around 1943 that conversion is done onto the M10 to increase its firepower capabilities against the gradually upgraded German tank designs such as the [[Tiger H1|Tiger I]] and the [[Panther D|Panthers]]. The conversion used one of the best Allied anti-tank guns at the time, the 17-pounder, which could penetrate about 140 mm of armour at 500 m away with APCBC rounds, and 209 mm at the same distance with APDS rounds (Armour-Penetrating Discarding Sabot). The conversion is done onto the M10 also required a counterweight to be placed on the 17-pounder to compensate the heavier weight of the 17-pounder compared to the 3-inch gun. This gave the M10 Achilles a much more defining profile and attempts were made to hide this larger cannon length with optical illusion. Aside from the gun conversion, the M10 Achilles also had an extra 17 mm of armour welded onto the front and sides of the hull for added protection, plus a 20 mm shield on the top of the turret to compensate for the open-turret design. About 1,000 M10 Achilles with the 17-pounders were ordered, but by D-Day, only 124 were available, and 816 were done by the end of the year. The low number of these converted Achilles made meant that any lost units were hard to replace with a 17-pounder one, and the disgruntled crew would be issued an M10 with a 3-inch gun instead. In the end, about a total of 1,000 Achilles were converted into 17-pounder ones by the end of World War II, making the M10 Achilles the second-most numerous design to mount the 17-pounder, coming before the [[Sherman Firefly|Sherman Firefly]].