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Q-5L

2024-08-11T22:57:08Z

U91119932: /* Description */

{{About
| about = Chinese strike aircraft '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Q-5 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=q_5l
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The Q-5L (Chinese: 强-5L型强击机; unified NATO Codename: Fantan) was one of the final versions of the Q-5 family developed in the early 2000s, focusing on improving the electronics for ground-attack capabilities. China had been closely observing the USAF's guided munitions since the Vietnam War, during which their AGM-62 Walleyes performed exceptionally well in attacking critical infrastructure to stall attacks from the Viet Cong. Due to political turmoil, the PLAAF failed to acquire foreign targeting pods, so testing of domestic LGBs and guidance pods began in the 1990s with various prototypes. Although the plan for a 2-plane formation, where one plane would carry bombs and the other a target pod, was abandoned, the new avionics of the Q-5II (Q-5C; suffixed with L when upgraded) and Q-5D (suffixed with N) ensured the capability of the single jet to strike enemies with LGBs. These upgrades became the standard for the Q-5s before their ultimate decommission in the early 2010s.

Introduced in [[Update "Fire and Ice"]], the Q-5L has an increased bomb payload and updated avionics such as a new FLIR sensor underneath the nose. However, it is still not any better in air combat than the [[Q-5A]] because it lacks air-to-air missiles. Its deficits in air-to-air combat and fragility are compensated for by access to laser-guided bombs and a targeting pod with thermal optics, all at a much lower battle rating than the [[Jaguar GR.1A]] or [[Mirage 2000D-R1]]. In Ground RB, a well-flown Q-5L can destroy enemy vehicles without much concern for enemy air defenses.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

For players who have flown the Q-5 series, Q-5L still retains the same flight performance - although sharing many parts with the [[J-6A]], due to the lack of weight-reduction measures, Q-5s are in fact structurally overweight; while it has better sustained turn to heavier jets such as Phantoms thanks to its engines, do note that the weight issue still haunts the jet. Beware of any targets that have higher manoeuvrability, although your higher speed might save you from subsonic jets, any supersonic jets will have no problem chasing a Q-5L. Another note is that the Q-5L still retains the same control surface lock-up at transonic speeds (>850 km/h and before hitting Mach 1.0), use the airbrakes according to the situation for both regaining control or "snap-shots" on enemy targets.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max speed (km/h at 7,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 1,434 || 1,430 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 25.4 || 25.7 || 139.4 || 129.4 || rowspan="2" | 850
|-
! Upgraded
| 1,454 || 1,444 || 24.6 || 25.0 || 186.5 || 162.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,260  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 500 || 450 || ~9 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 540 || < 650 || < 350 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="5" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="3" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Shenyang Liming WP-6A-III || 2
| colspan="2" | 6,598 kg || colspan="3" | 337 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="4" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | {{Annotation|Max Gross Weight|Mass of the fully equipped aircraft with heaviest weapons load}}
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 10m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 34m fuel
|-
| 725 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 7,446 kg || 8,215 kg || 9,024 kg || 9,425 kg || 12,457 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="5" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 10m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 34m fuel || MGW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 2,650 kgf || 3,713 kgf
| 1.00 || 0.90 || 0.82 || 0.79 || 0.59
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 2,677 kgf (1,000 km/h) || 3,789 kgf (1,000 km/h)
| 1.02 || 0.92 || 0.84 || 0.80 || 0.61
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


* 10 mm steel plate behind nose cone
* 4.5 + 8 mm bulletproof glass in front of the cockpit
* 8 mm steel plate underneath cockpit
* 16 mm steel armoured pilot's seat
* 10 + 25 mm steel armoured pilot's headrest
* Self-sealing fuel tanks behind cockpit and underneath engines in rear fuselage

The Q-5L shares the same protection as its predecessors. Due to the need for ground attack and some protection for the pilot, the cockpit is enclosed by steel plates and comes with bulletproof glass. While this might not be sufficient against any autocannons at the rank, it could at least make sure the pilot will not be knocked out right away by incoming shots or shrapnel. The engines are still unprotected, but the installation of fire suppression systems allows the Q-5L to have greater odds to survive a fire onboard.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|Type 23-2K (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 2 x 23 mm Type 23-2K cannons, wing-mounted (120 rpg = 240 total)

The Type 23-2K cannons should be more than familiar to experienced Fantan users. Many of the Q-5L's opponents will be supersonic aircraft, and the substandard muzzle velocity and inconsistent damage per shot can be annoying. Still, they are its only air-to-air weapon.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}


The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="6%" | 1 !! width="6%" | 2 !! width="6%" | 3 !! width="6%" | 4 !! width="6%" | 5 !! width="6%" | 6 !! width="6%" | 7
| rowspan="10" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! [[250-3 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-3]] bombs
| 1 || 1 || || 4 || || 1 || 1
|-
! [[250-4 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-4]] bombs
| 1 || 1 || || 4 || || 1 || 1
|-
! [[500-3 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-3]] bombs
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! [[500-4 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-4]] bombs
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! [[TS250 (260 kg)|260 kg TS250]] bombs
| || 1* || || || || 1* ||
|-
! [[LS-500J (570 kg)|570 kg LS-500J]] bombs
| || 1* || || || || 1* ||
|-
! [[Type 90-1]] rockets
| || 7 || 7 || || 7 || 7 ||
|-
! [[Type 130-2]] rockets
| || 4 || 4 || || 4 || 4 ||
|-
! K/PZS-01 targeting pod
| || || || 1* || || ||
|-
| colspan="9" | * The K/PZS-01 targeting pod must be carried when equipping laser-guided bombs
|-
|}

{{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}

* Without load
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
* 16 x Type 130-2 rockets
* 2 x 260 kg TS250 bombs (520 kg total)
* 2 x 570 kg LS-500J bombs (1,140 kg total)
* 8 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 8 x 250 kg 250-4 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-4 bombs (1,000 kg total)
{{Navigation-End}}

The good news for players of the Q-5L is that the PLAAF have finally ditched the -2 series bombs for the streamlined -3 series low-drag bombs, in addition to the ability to carry greater payloads. Players can take eight 250-3 bombs which, combined with the ballistic computer, could do extensive damage to multiple targets. While the option for a pair of 500-3 bombs on the wings also exists, in most cases the 250 kg bombs are more than enough to take down tanks of the rank. Both payloads are also now finally sufficient to (barely) destroy a base in Air RB.

Thanks to the technological advances of the early 2000s, the Q-5L also receives "smart bombs" in the 260 kg TS250 and 500 kg LS-500J laser-guided bombs. Combined with the K/PZS-01 targeting pod with excellent thermal sights, both of these bombs can make sure the enemies will have a really bad day while you can keep yourself out of trouble by dropping the bombs from higher altitude. The TS250 is unlocked first and contains an underwhelming 91 kg of TNT equivalent. The LS-500J is much better with 220 kg of TNT and can quite consistently destroy clustered enemy tanks. Note that the targeting pod blocks the underbelly pylons from being used to carry unguided bombs.

For players that feel that bombs are not their cup of tea, there are still options for 90 mm and 130 mm rockets at their disposal; while both of them can be guided by ballistic computer as well, do note that they don't have as many salvoes as their NATO/Warsaw Pact counterparts, so aim carefully before firing upon light targets or careless MBTs, taking them out using the high penetration HEAT warheads of the 90-1 or the explosive mass of the 130-2 rockets.

== Usage in battles ==

The Q-5L shares many similar features to previous Fantans: the same bulky MiG-19/J-6-based airframe with very high acceleration/climb rate. While there are some changes to the avionics and weapons, in most scenarios Q-5L flies like all the other Fantans.

==== Matchmaking oddity ====
The Q-5L's lack of air-to-air missiles can possibly be seen as a blessing in disguise, as while it is rank VII, As of the [[Update "Seek & Destroy"]] The Q-5L sits at an extremely low BR of 9.3 in Air-battles and is currently the lowest-BR Rank VII aircraft in the game, giving the opportunity to grind top-tier aircraft at rank VIII without incurring an RP-gain penalty for researching aircraft that are more than one rank above or below the aircraft you are playing with.

==== Not-so Fighter ====
An everlasting flaw of the Q-5s is the overweight airframe due to the limits of materials, this still applies to the Q-5L, though it has some parts of the airframe reinforced with modern materials. In most cases, using the Q-5L as a makeshift fighter is not a great idea as the airframe hinders the overall manoeuvrability; yes, it could still surprise in outturning supersonic jets of its rank or sometimes higher, but do remember that the Q-5 is an attacker and doesn't have the manoeuvrability at high speeds, especially at transonic speeds where the control surfaces lock up and might cause trouble when attempting to level out from a dive. To say the least, if enemy fighters are at lower speeds and lack the acceleration to escape from the Q-5L's pair of WP-6III engines, in most cases a sustained turnfight is enough to take them down with ease, assuming the pilot is used to the subpar ballistic performance of 23-2K cannons onboard. In some cases, even jets with delta wings will fall victim to the Q-5L with its superior manoeuvring energy retention. However, only take on enemies when they are on their own, as a prolonged dogfight means that supersonic enemy backup could quickly arrive and turn the tables.

Since the airframe has been reinforced, the Q-5L can carry up to 2 tons of bombs in a single run: for the more dedicated role of being an attacker, taking eight 250-3 bombs are barely sufficient to take down a base at its rank: although this also means you have to land and rearm often, this at least gives the Q-5L a chance to earn extra research points. Using the new CCRP function alongside bomb series makes it very easy to bomb bases and turn around early. While bombing AI targets is still viable, only do it when the skies are clear from enemies as the Q-5L does not have AAMs to defend itself and a somewhat meager amount of countermeasures to go along with it.

Using the Q-5L as a bomb truck will still leave the inner wing pylons available for carrying rockets. Two pods of 130 mm rockets can be fired at bases for additional points. More creatively, two pods of 90 mm rockets can be carried for use as makeshift flares in a tactic pioneered by contemporary attackers like the [[MiG-23BN (Germany)|MiG-23BN]]. Although 14 rockets is a long way from the MiG-23BN's swarms of 57 mm rockets, they are still better than nothing and can help the Q-5L survive a head-on or two from all-aspect missiles like the [[R-60M]].

==== Payback with Vengeance ====
While players might not have a good time in aerial combat, the Q-5L brings in a very valuable feature for PLAAF jets: a full-fledged ballistic computer and guided bombs. To players suffering from enemy jet attackers in ground battles, the Q-5L lets enemies taste their own medicine to some extent. Thanks to the new HUD and sensors onboard, the Q-5L is able to achieve precise strikes with either its bombs or rockets. The new targeting pod onboard provides a thermal vision sight, while the jet itself also has a built-in 1.5x camera for acquisition. The Q-5L's combination of climb-rate, targeting pod, and LGBs gives it an advantage over subsonic attackers at it's BR such as the [[Su-25]] and [[A-10A]] who often need to be at lower altitudes closer to the battlefield to do effective damage

To safely deal with ground targets, take either the 250/500 kg LGBs (TS250/LS-500J) alongside the targeting pod and climb to at least 6 km before entering the battlefield as this lowers the odds of being pinged by SAM radar and MANPADS of the rank have very little chance of hitting targets at such altitude. Do note that due to the limited view angle of the pod, you might sometimes have to dive in for a better lock, make sure to deploy airbrakes for maximum control.

Zoom-climbing to high altitudes and tossing laser-guided bombs in "orbital strikes" is a safe and relaxing way to destroy enemy SAMs, who cannot hide from the thermal targeting pod and will often have trouble detecting or hitting the Q-5L at such a high elevation. This anti-SAM capability is unparalleled for the Q-5L's battle rating. The bomb will take a long time to reach the ground however, so keep an eye on the battlefield and switch targets if needed. After SAMs are cleared, the Q-5L is free to start diving closer. Even after the LGBs are spent, the targeting pod can still be used to find and track targets to use unguided ordnance on - newly spawned revenge SAMs for example can be given a rude welcome of HE rockets.

However, even before any LGBs have been researched, the Q-5L still has a range of unguided ordnance including GP bombs and rocket pods; the ballistic computer onboard can make sure the ordnance lands as close as possible to the designated target. Leave the bombs for (groups of) tanks, and use the rockets against light vehicles or enemy SPAA who aren't aware of your existence.

The Q-5L's lack of air-to-air capability is not as relevant in Ground RB, but it is still important to keep an eye out for enemy aircraft because of its high fragility. A crafty opponent can counter the Q-5L by bringing out a jet with powerful missiles. It only takes one [[AIM-9L Sidewinder|AIM-9L]] to send the Q-5L back to the hangar if the pilot is staring through the targeting pod for minutes at a time. Watch the enemy air spawn and pay attention to jets trying to launch missiles at you, A skilled Fantan veteran can still out-dogfight overconfident attackers when not carrying bombs. Friendly TY-90-equipped Chinese helicopters like the [[Z-9W]] are ironically more effective in air combat than the Q-5L, so bait pursuers near them if possible.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* New HUD with ballistic computer
* Built-in TVD camera for target acquisition; alternatively equipped with an advanced targeting pod
* Access to 250/500 kg laser-guided bombs
* Sufficient manoeuvrability at around 700 km/h
* Great acceleration and climb rate thanks to the WP-6-IIIA engines
* Access to very good RWR and countermeasures
* Sits at 9.3 BR in air-battles while being rank VII, making it possible to grind top-tier aircraft at rank VIII without incurring a penalty in RP-gain

'''Cons:'''

* Same bulky airframe as all its predecessors and still locks up at transonic speeds
* The built-in camera only has 1.5x magnification and limited rotation range
* Lacks any type of AAM, unlike its technological predecessor [[A-5C]]
* Type 23-2K cannons needs extra practice against aerial targets
* Subpar payload to its NATO/Warsaw Pact counterparts

== History ==

The Q-5L variant of the Q-5 family traces back to two other variants, the Q-5E/F, in the late 1990s.

As part of the efforts to develop domestic precision munitions against enemies' infrastructure inspired by the USAF's AGM-62 and GBU-12 bombs in the Vietnam War and Gulf War, the PLAAF accelerated the development of LGBs in December 1996 with a plan for the precision munitions where either a single jet would carry both the targeting pod and the bombs for an attack run, or it would be guided by another Q-5/ground-based designators; both Factory 612 and 613 in Shaanxi started their respective development on an LGB and the targeting pod. A few brand-new Q-5Ds were then modified into Q-5E and Q-5F as the carrier and designator respectively, where Q-5F would guide the bombs dropped from Q-5E onto the target. Although both jets passed for certification in the early 2000s, it was deemed that 2 separated jets for a run wasn't viable and the project was ditched.

In the mid-1990s, after the previous projects of A-5M and A-5K were canceled by the 1989 Crackdown, the PLAAF requested for a domestic digital upgrade for later batches of Q-5III and Q-5D with new HUD and sensors for precision assaults, as well as as the placeholder before the XAC JH-7 Feibao (NATO: Flounder) entered mass-production. Those jets which were modified from the Q-5II (Q-5C after new nomenclature was issued to replace the numeral suffix) were designated Q-5L with new antennas and stabilized opto-electronic camera in the nose for target acquisition (while Q-5Ds with these upgrades were named Q-5N) , as well as the capability of carrying the targeting pod on its own for attack runs. With the older avionics replaced with more advanced ones, the new jet entered service in 2005 alongside Q-5Ns that were modified from the Q-5D and served as the economical alternatives to new jets before they were eventually replaced by fighters with multirole features such as J-10A, Feibao, and Flankers in 2017. <ref>PP.77-82, ''The Rising East Wind- The Biography of Q-5 Attacker'' by Lao Bi and Liu Ming, NAAS & Inertial Technology, ISSN 1009-5497, 2014</ref>

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=q_5l Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|Gy87KuguGJA|'''The Shooting Range #329''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:26 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==


;[[Q-5 (Family)|Q-5 (NATO: Fantan) Family]]

* [[Q-5 early]]- LRIP of Q-5
* [[Q-5A]]- Base model of Q-5s
* [[A-5C]]- Export model of Q-5 and the technological predecessor of Q-5L

== External links ==


=== References ===
<references />

{{AirManufacturer Nanchang}}
{{China jet aircraft}}

Type 69

2024-06-25T23:55:07Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Chinese medium tank '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Type 69 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=cn_type_69
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}'''(Chinese: 69式中型坦克; industry code WZ121) was the first batch of 100 tanks manufactured as the domestic replacement of the previous Type 59 tanks with some parts of the domestic upgrades inspired from [[T-62 545 (China)|Soviet T-62]]. The plans to built a completely domestic tank rose after the worsen Sino-Soviet relationship, in fact the new tank was proposed in 1963 to replace the aforementioned [[Type 59]] and the development started in 1965; while the later Cultural Revolution hindered the development severely, Chinese engineers eventually acquired the No. 545 T-62 from Soviet Border Troops and many parts of the most advanced Soviet tank known to Chinese inspired the engineers to revise their designs. The WZ121 eventually passed for certification in 1974 with new diesel engine, FCS and the infamous 100 mm smoothbore cannon; due to the rather disappointing performance of the cannon and flaws found during trials, these 100 tanks were soon returned to Factory 617 with the only known surviving tank stored in China Tank Museum (now closed), where the new Type 69-II with rifled 100 mm cannon passed as the true Type 69 in service, as well as the bestseller of Chinese medium tanks during 1980s as the [[Type 69-IIa]].

It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]] alongside with the Chinese tech-tree. At first glance, the Type 69 looks a lot like the previous Type 59. Closer inspection reveals some interesting features. It can be visually differentiated from similar vehicles by the placement of the IR spotlight directly above the gun mantlet (Soviet tanks place the spotlight off to the side), a laser rangefinder next to it, and a unique fume extractor located near the tip of the barrel. It can be thought of as a cross between the Soviet [[T-55A]] and [[T-62]]. Like the former, it boasts improved mobility and gun handling from the original Type 59, and like the latter, it has a smoothbore gun firing HEATFS and APFSDS rounds. Incorporating some of the PRC's first indigenous technologies, it also boasts night vision, two-plane stabilizer, and a laser rangefinder which both the T-62 and T-55A lack. Players coming from the [[Type 59]] will appreciate many of the Type 69's improvements, no longer having to deal with a glacial turret rotation speed, single plane stabilizer, and lack of night vision. The firepower is a sidegrade at best and a downgrade at worst. Both tanks can use HEATFS, but while the Type 59 could use APHE rounds for instant knockouts against lightly armoured tanks like the [[Leopard 1]], the Type 69 has a poor-quality APFSDS round instead. No miracles should be expected from its gun.

Succeeding the Type 69 is the [[ZTZ59D1]], which has much improved firepower and protection but reverts back to the Type 59's poor gun handling and weaker engine.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}


The armour layout of the Type 69 is identical to the [[T-54 (1951)]], with a rounded turret made of cast homogeneous armour and a highly sloped front glacis. While the frontal protection is good in terms of raw values, the Type 69 will face many tanks with powerful sub-calibre and HEAT rounds that can penetrate its armour with ease. That said, it is resistant to the APHE rounds used by Soviet light/medium tanks and the US [[T32]]/[[T32E1]].

Post-penetration survivability is not optimal as the interior of the tank is cramped and plenty of loose ammunition is stored in the turret and fighting compartment. However, the Type 69 has a "wet" ammo rack next to the driver, which is more resistant to detonation by HEAT rounds.

'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour (Hull, Turret roof)
* Cast homogeneous armour (Turret, Gun mantlet)

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 100 mm (60°) ''Front glacis'' 100 mm (54°) ''Lower glacis'' || 80 mm || 45 mm (16°) ''Upper'' 30 mm (72°) ''Lower'' || 30 mm ''Front'' 20 mm ''Back''
|-
| Turret || 160 mm (14-39°) ''Turret front'' 200 mm (4-78°) ''Gun mantlet'' || 115 mm (45-50°) ''Upper'' 155 mm (10-30°) ''Lower'' || 65 mm (0-35°) || 30 mm
|-
|}
'''Notes:'''

* Suspensions wheels and tracks are 20 mm thick

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp=899|rbMinHp=513}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|Type 69 (100 mm)}}

The Type 69 is armed with a 100 mm Type 69 smoothbore cannon equipped with a two-plane stabilizer, capable of firing APFSDS, HEATFS, and HE rounds. It reloads 0.1 seconds quicker than the Type 59's rifled gun but this is a negligible improvement. The turret traverse is on par with the T-55A and is 50% better than the Type 59. The ability to automatically range the gun using the laser rangefinder helps offset the lower velocity of the HEATFS round, and makes sniping extremely easy. As a whole, the Type 69 significantly rectifies the Type 59's gun handling problems, but it still lags behind most Western MBTs. It also retains the T-54/Type 59's poor gun depression of 4 degrees, which is 1 degree worse than the T-55A.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Type 69 (100 mm)|100 mm Type 69]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 44 || rowspan="2" | -5°/+18° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | Two-plane || 14.3 || 19.8 || 24.0 || 26.5 || 28.2 || rowspan="2" | 9.75 || rowspan="2" | 8.63 || rowspan="2" | 7.95 || rowspan="2" | 7.50
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 8.9 || 10.5 || 12.8 || 14.1 || 15.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
The Type 69's stock rounds are the Type 71 APDS-FS and the Type 71 HE. The Type 71 APDS-FS with only 219 mm of flat penetration at 10 m is worse than many AP/APHE rounds at its BR. The [[AUBL/74 HVG]]'s 60 mm APFSDS penetrates more despite having a much lower calibre! It also suffers noticeable drop-off at long distances. However the angled penetration is decent, topping out at 125 mm @ 60 degrees. For comparison, the T-55A's 3BM25 APFSDS round has far superior flat penetration (up to 335 mm) but only has slightly higher angled penetration (up to 128 mm @ 60 degrees) than the Type 71 APDS-FS. Penetration aside, it has a high muzzle velocity of 1,505 m/s. The post-penetration damage is nothing to write home about, generally comparable to the Type 1959 APDS used by the Type 59. Be sure to aim for crew members and ammo racks.

The Type 71 HE shell is weak and should be ignored. It has a low explosive content and might be able to cause overpressure damage to light targets, but not consistently. Any vehicle with more than paper-thin armour will be immune to it.

The unlockable Type 1973 HEATFS is a Tier I modification. Familiar to Type 59 users, it has the same penetration performance as the T-55A's 3BK17M HEATFS with a lower TNT equivalent and a slightly lower muzzle velocity. 390 mm of flat penetration at any distance is impressive and will slice through almost all tanks lacking special armour types (spaced, reactive, composite). While it lacks the high velocity of the APFSDS and can be detonated by bushes or fences, the HEATFS is still good for dealing with heavy targets that the APFSDS can't penetrate. Post-penetration damage is somewhat inconsistent, so again, aim for crew members and ammo racks. It is capable of knocking out very lightly-armoured vehicles with overpressure damage, but this is not guaranteed. Still, it is much more practical than the HE shell and is the best accompaniment to the APFSDS.

{{:Type 69 (100 mm)/Ammunition|1-72-85 APDS-FS, 1-71-74 HE, Type 1973 HEAT-FS}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! 6th rack empty*
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''44''' || 43 ''(+1)'' || 38 ''(+6)'' || 34 ''(+10)'' || 22 ''(+22)'' || 20 ''(+24)'' || 1 ''(+43)'' || No
|-
|}
'''Notes''':

* Shells are modeled individually and disappear after having been shot or loaded.
* The 6th rack serves as first-stage ammo stowage (19 shells total).

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|3}}

{{main|Type 54 (12.7 mm)|Type 59 (7.62 mm)}}

The Type 54 is useful against enemy helicopters if they get too close. It can also penetrate lightly-armoured targets like certain SPAAs or light tanks.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Type 54 (12.7 mm)|12.7 mm Type 54]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Pintle || 500 (50) || 600 || -4°/+82° || ±180°
|-
|}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Type 59 (7.62 mm)|7.62 mm Type 59]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Coaxial || 3,500 (250) || 600 || - || -
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==


The Type 69 is somewhat paradoxical. Its laser rangefinder and smoothbore cannon may suggest that it is a good sniper, but the poor penetration of its Type 71 APDS-FS makes it difficult to pick off well-protected targets from afar. Meanwhile its two-plane stabilizer, improved engine, and faster turret rotation speed are more suitable for an offensive role, though it lacks the APHE enjoyed by the comparable [[T-55A]] for instant knockouts. New tankers can try using it as a second-line midfielder to support pushes and quickly react to targets from a comfortable distance. It can brawl quite well against tanks that lack stabilizers. Take advantage of the laser rangefinder to shoot accurately at long distances, as the ability to automatically range the gun helps a lot.

Terrible APFSDS is still APFSDS, and it does the job against against lightly armoured opponents like the [[Leopard I]] and [[AMX-30]]. US medium tanks tend to have better frontal protection and may be able to shrug off the APFSDS in certain zones; the [[M48A1]] has a tough gun mantlet, the [[M60]]'s lower glacis is immune, and the [[T95E1]] is mostly immune on the turret and upper portions of the glacis. When fighting more resilient targets like the [[M103]], [[T32E1]], and [[M60A1 (AOS)]], the Type 1973 HEATFS is a much better choice and will penetrate any target with conventional armour. The Type 69 may encounter some tanks that boast ERA and good base armour. Look out for the [[Centurion Mk.5 AVRE]], [[M60A1 RISE (P)]], and [[Sho't Kal Dalet (Great Britain)|Sho't Kal Dalet]], which will need repeated hits with HEATFS and are more easily dealt with by flanking.

The APFSDS and HEATFS are not very likely to destroy targets in one shot, especially those with large volumes and well-spaced crew members, so stay close to cover and have a backup plan if a target survives. This is especially important since the Type 69's reload is rather sluggish and a damaged target could retreat or retaliate before a follow up shot is ready.

Mobility wise, the Type 69 is about the same as the [[T-55A]]. While not agonizing, it most likely won't be the first tank to arrive on the battlefield. Note that the reverse speed of -7 km/h is rather poor and it lacks neutral steering, so be careful about overextending. It is easier to get into a bad position than out of it.

Overall, the Type 69 is versatile, having tools for most situations at hand and no major weaknesses, though conversely it is not exceptional in any regard. It is best used as a flexible combatant, capable of flanking, pushing aggressively, or sniping as the situation demands. Stay close to teammates and avoid engaging multiple opponents at the same time. Caution should be paid to its substandard mobility, slow reload, and finicky ammunition.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* One of the earliest tanks in the game with APFSDS rounds
* APFSDS comes stock
* Has a two-plane stabilizer
* Access to night vision and a laser rangefinder
* Laser rangefinder can automatically range the gun to fire at long distances
* Improved engine, turret rotation speed, and ammunition capacity compared to the Type 59
* Top mounted heavy machine gun is useful against aircraft
* Wet ammo storage

'''Cons:'''

* APFSDS has abysmal flat penetration for its calibre and all-around penetration values drop severely at longer ranges
* APFSDS struggles to destroy heavy tanks such as [[M103]]
* Does not have access to APHE
* Armour is identical to the Type 59, does not hold up very well at its rank
* Not particularly mobile
* Somewhat long reload
* No thermal sights
* No sources of smoke available

== History ==


After the Sino-Soviet split, the People's Republic of China was no longer able to receive military technical help from the Soviet Union. The [[Type 59]], a licensed copy of the T-54A, was the most advanced medium tank available to the PLA, but after a few years it became apparent that upgrades were necessary to keep up with the rapidly advancing technology of the time. The PLA ordered the development of a new "Type 69" tank in 1963 and the first prototype was manufactured in 1966; however, the beginning of the Cultural Revolution in 1966 and the ensuing purges impeded further development of the tank. The early Type 69 featured a smoothbore cannon, IR searchlight, laser rangefinder, and a new engine.

After the capture of [[Т-62 545 (China)| a Soviet T-62]], the latest Soviet technology was examined, copied, and implemented into the Type 69, creating the Type 69-I variant. During this time the smoothbore gun was found to be rather unsatisfactory, and Type 69 tanks in Chinese service were often refitted with the same 100 mm rifled gun as the Type 59. Further development continued through the 1980s, culminating in the Type 79 series, which incorporated a new 105 mm gun and numerous Western technologies.

The Type 69 series saw relatively limited service with the PLA but were more popular on the export market, purchased by countries such as Thailand, [[T-69 II G|Bangladesh]], and Myanmar. Modified Type 69 tanks were still in the inventory of the Iraqi Army during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, though by this point they were no match for modern MBTs. That being said, the Iraqi division equipped with the {{PAGENAME}} tanks, though outgunned, fought more valiantly than the elite Republican Guard who had access to more modern equipment.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=cn_type_69 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|cZBlT1J2cVU|'''A Complicated Copy - Type 69''' - ''JustinPlaysYT''|B6ZsuPjSuNo|'''T-54/T-55 family''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 6:24 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''|ro6fFFWqdJ8|'''Aggressive {{PAGENAME}}''' - ''TheEuropeanCanadian''}}

== See also ==


* [[T-69 II G]] - Upgraded export variant for Bangladesh

== External links ==


* [[wikipedia:Type_69_tank|[Wikipedia] Type 69 tank]]

{{TankManufacturer Norinco}}
{{China medium tanks}}

Roland 1

2023-12-22T00:07:07Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{Specs-Card
|code=fr_amx_30_roland
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} French self-propelled anti-aircraft vehicle {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.89 "Imperial Navy"]].

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

The armour of the Roland 1 is average compared to other SPAAGs of the same battle rating, such as the [[FlaRakPz 1]] or the [[FlaRakRad]], which still means that the user will have a hard time surviving an encounter against an MBT or other SPAAGs equipped with cannons with at least 30 mm of penetration, such as the [[SIDAM 25 (Mistral)|SIDAM 25]] if they are using an APDS belt. In this SPAA, it will be very common for the user to face against top-tier jets such as the [[MiG-21bis]] or the [[MiG-21MF (Germany)|MiG-21MF]]. These jets (and many more) have no problem shredding through the top of the tank with ease.

Almost every MBT in the game will have absolutely no difficulty destroying you with a single shot into the front of the tank, as the 30 mm thick front plate is inadequate for protection and the spall created from APFSDS shells will be more than enough to wipe out your crew. However, due to the large interior of the tank and the spacing of the crew, one might survive an APFSDS shot to the side provided it does not hit the munitions, a fuel tank, or the driver and the commander at the same time. Due to the tank being larger, the modules such as the engine or the transmission won't be enough to stop a shot from the back. Because of this, one should avoid direct confrontation with a hostile MBT at any given time.

'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour (Hull, turret)

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 30 mm (30°) ''Upper glacis'' 30 mm (40°) ''Lower glacis'' 15 mm (75°) ''Driver's port''
| 15 mm || 15 mm || 10 mm 5 mm ''Radiator''
|-
| Turret || 15 (0° - 30°) mm ''Turret front'' 10 mm ''Optics'' || 10 - 15 mm || 15 mm || 10 mm
|-
|}

'''Notes:'''

* Tracks are 20 mm thick
* Suspension wheels are made from structural steel and are 15 mm thick
* Additional armour in the front of the hull, consists of spare tracks 20 mm thick and a single structural steel block 4 mm thick
** There is also additional armour placed on the rear of the vehicle, albeit only 4 extra millimetres in the form of structural steel

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp=1,023|rbMinHp=637}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|Roland}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Roland|Roland SAM]] (x2) || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity (Belt) !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 10 (2) || rowspan="2" | -10°/+35° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 74.9 || 103.6 || 125.8 || 139.1 || 148.0 || rowspan="2" | 5.00 || rowspan="2" | 5.00 || rowspan="2" | 5.00 || rowspan="2" | 5.00
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 50.6 || 59.5 || 72.3 || 79.9 || 85.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{{:Roland/Ammunition|Roland 1, Roland 3}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_XM975.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the [[XM975]] (identical).]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''5''' || 4 ''(+1)'' || 3 ''(+2)'' || 2 ''(+3)'' || 1 ''(+4)'' || No
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

Always scan the clouds for enemy jets. Since you cannot engage hostile MBTs, there is no point trying to get into positions where MBTs may be lurking. Your best bet would be to stick to cover from where you can constantly scan the sky for enemy jets while also being safe from hostile MBTs. Due to your size, you won't be able to find cover all that easily, so if needed, you can stay behind a hill and wait until your team advances so that you can reposition and find new cover that is way more effective.

Your missiles have no problem catching even the fastest of the jets, but speed is not everything. Try to strike down jets which are crippled or in the middle of a manoeuvre. There is no point in wasting a missile on a jet that has plenty of energy and time to react and dodge your missile. This plays a major factor in your performance because you can only carry 10 missiles and getting to a capture point to refill your missiles might not be an easy task to accomplish in some maps.

If you encounter helicopters, they are an easy target, as long as you manage to spot them first. If they spot you first, and you do not notice it, it is very likely your tank is going to get hit by an AGM, which due to Roland's thin armour, results in an instant KO. If you are not sure if the hostile team has a helicopter, wait behind cover that protects you from the spawning helicopters and scout around or wait till your teammates call out the enemy helicopter. You should also bear in mind that the range of your missiles is roughly 6,300 m, which might not be enough against certain helicopters in some cases, such as the [[Ka-52]]/[[Ka-50|50]] or the [[EC-665 Tiger UHT]].

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Roland 1 and Roland 3 SAM are more than enough to take down any aircraft if they hit centre mass
* Fast turret rotation coupled with the 2 missiles per reload (which is only 5 seconds long) allows the user to take down jets in quick succession
* Radar can be used to guide the missile towards the target
* Pretty fast, allows for quick repositioning

'''Cons:'''

* Pretty large, it is a big target for enemy jets and MBTs alike
* Radar lock can be broken fairly easily if one is positioned near trees
* Lacks any sort of weaponry against MBTs, Roland missiles will only damage tracks/cannons if used against MBTs
* Crew members are positioned in a row, allows for easy one shot kills from the front and the back
* Reloading process can't start until all missiles have blown up
* Low elevation angle
* Missiles have a very low speed compared to most SPAA at it's BR

== History ==

[[File:AMX-30R Roland.jpg|thumb|500x500px|AMX-30R 'Roland' formerly of the 401e Régiment d'Artillerie (401e RA) on external display at the Musée des Blindés, Saumur.]]
The Roland 1 is a Franco-German designed anti-aircraft missile system, serving primarily with the German and French armies. Designed in the late 1960s, the Roland 1 was accepted for service in the late 1970s and served with the French Army. An improved version, the [[FlaRakPz 1|Roland 2]], was accepted for service a short time later, with improved capability including all-weather operations. The Roland system has been widely exported to a variety of nations, and has been used during the Falklands Conflict and Iran-Iraq war.

=== Design and development ===
In the late 1960s, the first surface-to-air missile systems began to emerge as potent anti-aircraft defence systems. As a result, in 1964, representatives of the French and German governments signed an agreement to jointly develop a new self-propelled anti-aircraft missile launcher system (SPAAML), named Roland. The work was conducted by Messerschmitt-Bolkow-Blohm (MBB) on the German side, and Aerospatiale-Matra on the French side. The first prototype for the system was rolled out in 1967, and in 1977, the French government accepted the first Roland 1 SAM system into service.

The French Roland 1 SPAAML was based off of the [[AMX-30]] Chassis. It was operated by 3 crew members, and was fitted with a large central turret carrying two Roland SAMs, along with the corresponding search radar. The Roland 1 was limited to clear-weather operations, and was semi-automatic, unlike the fully-automatic Roland 2 and Roland 3 systems. The Roland 1 missiles themselves had a maximum firing range of 6.5 kilometres, with a top speed of 900 m/s (Mach 2.5).

=== Operational History ===
The Roland 1 first entered service with the French Army in 1977, with a total of 83 Roland 1 missile batteries being produced. These served as the primary French SPAA system, though they were quickly supplemented by more advanced Roland 2 and Roland 3 systems. The Roland missile system has now been removed from French service, being replaced by more advanced, modern missile systems such as the Mistral.

The Roland missile system was widely exported, serving with multiple nations including Argentina, Brazil, Qatar, Spain, Nigeria, and Venezuela. As well, it was one of the few foreign missile systems used by the United States. Roland missiles were used during the Falklands conflict of 1982, and reportedly shot down four British Sea Harriers. However, there is conflicting data on this claim, which cannot be confirmed. Iraq also used the Roland system during the Iran-Iraq war, shooting down an [[F-4E Phantom II|F-4E]] Phantom and an F-5 Tiger. Most Roland SAM batteries have now been phased out, replaced by more modern weapons.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=fr_amx_30_roland Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|luvhoX8Ht1I|'''New anti-air defence''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 3:44 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''}}

== See also ==


;Vehicles equipped with the same missile

* [[FlaRakPz 1]]
* [[FlaRakRad]]

== External links ==


* [[wikipedia:AMX-30#Variants|[Wikipedia] AMX-30 - Variants]]
* [https://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/France/AMX-30-Roland-SAM.php <nowiki>[Tanks Encyclopedia]</nowiki> AMX-30 Roland]

=== References ===

* Missilery Missile Database. (2006). Roland-1 anti-aircraft missile system. Retrieved January 02, 2021, from https://en.missilery.info/missile/roland-1
* Tanks Encyclopedia. (2011). AMX-30 Roland. Retrieved January 02, 2021.

{{France anti-aircraft vehicles}}

T30

2023-12-14T00:36:50Z

U91119932: /* Usage in battles */

{{Specs-Card
|code=us_t30
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
|market=Heavy Tank T30 (USA)
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} American heavy tank {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.85 "Supersonic"]] in the 2018 "Festive Quest" that took place between 21 December 2018 to 14 January 2019. It was obtainable via completing 10 Christmas Toys for tankers. It could also be purchased on the Gaijin market after the event was over.

The {{Specs|pseudonym}} was a World War II American tank project developed to counter new German tanks, such as Tiger I, Tiger II, and tank destroyers, such as the Jagdtiger, or Soviet heavy tanks, such as IS-1 or IS-2. The T30 was designed at the same time as the T29 Heavy Tank. However, it had a 155 mm gun mounted on the same hull and turret as the T29 and T34 heavy tanks.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}


'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour (hull roof, sides & rear - engine bay, hull bottom)
* Cast homogeneous armour (hull front, sides & roof - fighting compartment, turret, gun mantlet, cupola)

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 102 mm (55°) ''Front glacis'' 70.25 mm (61°) ''Lower glacis - centre'' 70.25 mm (40°) ''Lower glacis - sides'' 102.5 mm (5°) ''MG housing'' 88 mm (sphere) ''MG port'' || 76.2 mm ''Front half'' 51 mm ''Rear half'' || 51 mm (5°) ''Top'' 51 mm (60°) ''Bottom'' || 38.1 mm (57°-81°) ''Front'' 38.1 mm ''Rear''
|-
| Turret || 203 mm ''Gun mantlet'' 158.7 mm ''Gun mantlet frame'' || 158.7 mm || 102 mm ''Vertical part'' 50 mm (71°) ''Turret ring area'' || 38.1 mm (79°)
|-
| Cupola || colspan="3" style="text-align:center" | 152.45 mm (45°) || 38.1 mm (79°)
|-
|}

'''Notes:'''

* Suspension wheels are 20 mm thick while tracks are 30 mm thick.
* Mudguards are 4 mm thick.
* Frontally, the MG housing (around the MG port) as well as the lower glacis are weak spots on the {{PAGENAME}}.
* The bottom of the hull is only 25.4 mm thick, making it vulnerable to powerful HE shells shot under the belly.

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp=1,046|rbMinHp=716}}

The {{PAGENAME}}'s mobility is good for the role it fulfils. Its acceleration and maximum speed are good for a heavy tank.
While the reverse speed is average, it isn't a handicap. And the {{PAGENAME}} can brake quickly in spite of its weight.
Neutral steering allows you to turn your hull towards flanking enemies relatively quickly on the spot.
The offroad mobility is good: the {{PAGENAME}} can reach 15 km/h when climbing uphill from idling and 21 km/h when fording. Due to its weight, the tank's mobility is unhindered by obstacles.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|T7 (155 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[T7 (155 mm)|155 mm T7]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 34 || rowspan="2" | -10°/+15° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 14.6 || 20.2 || 24.5 || 27.1 || 28.8 || rowspan="2" | 38.9 || rowspan="2" | 34.4 || rowspan="2" | 31.7 || rowspan="2" | 29.9
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 10.7 || 12.6 || 15.3 || 16.9 || 18.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
The available choice of ammunition focuses on heavily armoured targets:

* '''M112B1''': APBC; an armour-piercing ballistic capped shell with high explosive mass and good penetration power that will knock out any tank in one hit.
* '''T29E1''': APCBC; an armour-piercing capped shell with a ballistic cap offering an increased penetration compared to the M112B1.
* '''M107''': HE; a powerful high-explosive shell useful to destroy all enemy vehicles and even open and lightly armoured vehicles indirectly with the blast.
* '''M110''': Smoke; useful to blind enemy vehicles that are too remote for you to disable so that you can progress towards objectives.

{{:T7 (155 mm)/Ammunition|M112B1, M107, M110, T29E1}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! Ammo part
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''34''' || ''Projectiles'' ''Propellants'' || 30 ''(+4)'' 21 ''(+13)'' || 8 ''(+26)'' 7 ''(+27)'' || 3 ''(+31)'' 3 ''(+31)'' || 1 ''(+33)'' 1 ''(+33)'' || No
|-
|}
'''Notes''':

* The {{PAGENAME}} uses two-piece ammunition, composed of projectiles (yellow) and propellant bags (orange). Both have separate racks.
* Racks 3 and 4 are first stage ammo racks. They total 7 shells for projectiles and 6 shells for propellant bags.
* These racks get filled first when loading up the tank and are also emptied early: the rack depletion order at full capacity is: 4 - 3 - 1 - 2.

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|3}}

{{main|M2HB (12.7 mm)}}

These heavy machine guns can be extremely useful for gauging distance measurements (coaxial), engaging lightly armoured vehicles or shooting down enemy aircraft (pintle).

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[M2HB (12.7 mm)|12.7 mm M2HB]]
|-
! Mount
! Capacity (Belt)
! Fire rate
! Vertical
! Horizontal
|-
| Coaxial || 1,200 (200) || 577 || N/A || N/A
|-
| Pintle || 1,000 (200) || 577 || -10°/+50° || ±120°
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

Despite its labeling as a heavy tank, the {{PAGENAME}} is better used as a tank destroyer and being more of a supportive role than a breakthrough role that most heavy tanks were designed to do. With its long reload for the 155 mm makes its gameplay a bit similar to the [[KV-2]] than tanks like [[T29]] or [[T34]]. The T30 can handle itself on its own if in a one on one encounter but will be at a disadvantage if it is facing more than one due to the long reload time. So to fully utilize that heavy gun, it might be best to be a supportive role tank for the medium tanks or the MBTs that have a faster reload but not the same destructive power as the T30's 155 mm has.

The T30 share similarities with the armour as the [[T29]] and [[T34]], having a thick heavily armoured turret has its advantages. Since its most heavily armoured part is the front turret it can be a key factor on how to make plans where to best utilize the tank, keep in mind even if having the turret only exposed it's not a 100% guaranteed safety from shells like APDS that will with ease be able to penetrate turret. But shells like HEATFS will mostly not do same amount of damage but can take out the gunner or in worst case scenario the gun's breech.

Contrary to most american heavy tanks in it's series like the T29 and T34, The 155mm APCBC shells the T30 uses have abysmal penetration for a heavy tank at it's BR, and will often struggle to penetrate most foes. However these shells have extremely high post-penetration damage so using it isn't entirely off the table.

Due to it's 155mm cannon, the T30 gains access to the extremely powerful M107 HE shell also found on howitzers like the VIDAR, and M109. This shell compensates for the tank's abysmal penetration from it's APCBC shell via an absurd amount of explosive filler and overpressure potential. Combined with the good armor-layout, this lets you attack more-armored tanks from the front with relative ease.

Enemy tanks to be aware of are mostly MBTs like [[Leopard 1]], [[M60]], [[Vickers MBT]], [[T-54 (1951)]], [[STB-1]], [[OF-40]], [[Strv 101]]. But that is not the only threat there is also ATGM Vehicles and large calibre tanks that can have enough Power to disable the T30's turret when hull down and out flank the slow T30's position.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Great armour layout
* The M107 HE shell is one of the most powerful high-explosive shells in the game. Great at taking out heavily armoured tanks if the explosion occurs on the turret cheeks, over the turret, or under the hull, thanks to the overpressure damage mechanic
* Both of the APCBC shells have an amazing amount damage potential. Any shot that enters an enemy's crew compartment will almost certainly lead to a knock-out
* Because of the slow shell velocity, this is one of the few tanks in the game that's really good at hitting targets behind cover
* Despite the massive breech, the tank still retains 10 degrees of gun depression
* Has a set of optics that give magnification levels of 4.0x - 8.0x. Excellent for both close and long range target acquisition
* Has two .50 cal machine guns that can easily damage lightly armoured vehicles, tracks, and gun barrels
* Extremely fast reverse speed for a heavy tank at -14 km/h

'''Cons:'''

* Very long reload time. Even an ace crew using the 6-rounds first stage ammo rack will take around 30 seconds to reload the gun
* Despite the great armour, the gun's terrible reload rate renders you helpless if 2 or more enemy tanks attack you at the same time
* Despite being armed with a 155 mm gun, even the top APCBC shell has abysmal penetration against angled armour like the Panther's front plate
* The top APCBC shell only has 199 mm of penetration at point blank range
* The advantage of having incredible optics is negated by the bad shell velocity and accuracy of the 155 mm shells. Hitting a moving target is difficult, and hitting anything past 1,000 m is basically impossible
* Despite the 6-man crew, the sheer size of 155 mm shells and cases means that any enemy APHE shell that enters the T30's hull or turret will likely end in an ammo explosion
* Carrying games is difficult due to the horrendous rate of fire, the {{PAGENAME}} is heavily reliant and friendly vehicle support

== History ==


In 1944, the Army requested 4 prototypes for heavy tanks, two armed with a 105 mm gun and two armed with a 155 mm gun. The intention was to create vehicles that could face enemy heavy tanks on even terms, or even advantageous terms. The vehicles armed with the 105 mm gun were designated [[T29]], and the two armed with a 155 mm gun were designated [[T30]].

The armament of the T30, a 155 mm T7 L/40 gun, was one of the largest guns ever fitted to an armoured fighting vehicle made in the United States. The gun was carried in a tall, long turret with rounded edges. The height of the turret was quite necessary, as the size of the gun and its ammunition required a standing loader. The hull of the T30 was the same as the T29. It was a lengthened version of the [[M26|T26E3 chassis]]. The armour of the T30 was quite thick, and the hull was also well angled, as one of the requirements for the design was protection from the German [[KwK43 (88 mm)|long 88 mm anti-tank gun]]. The T30 carried a crew of six men. These were the driver, commander, bow machine gunner, gunner, and two loaders. One loader moved the crane that placed the shell, and the other used the rammer that put the shell into the breech. The gun could only be loaded at certain angles. The T30 saw an upgrade, called the T30E1, which added an automatic loading system, which moved the gun to the correct position, loaded the shell, and moved the gun back to the firing position. A hatch was added to the rear of the turret to allow the ejection of shell casings after firing.

World War 2 ended before the heavy tank designs ([[T28]], [[T29]], T30, [[T32]], [[T34]]) could enter service, and the development of these vehicles ended, but the development of these heavy tank designs provided experience that proved useful when designing the [[M103|M103 heavy tank]] during the Cold War.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=us_t30 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|Ucr-wFDeLRA|'''T30 Tank Review: Missing Punch''' - ''Napalmratte''}}

== See also ==


;Other tanks sharing the same design:

* [[T29 Heavy Tank (Family)]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/5963-development-t30-premium-heavy-tank-en|[Devblog] T30 Premium heavy tank]]
* [[wikipedia:T30_Heavy_Tank|[Wikipedia] T30 Heavy Tank]]
* [https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=353 Military Factory - T30 (Heavy Tank T30)]

{{USA heavy tanks}}
{{USA premium ground vehicles}}
{{Winter Event}}

J-7E

2023-09-19T22:17:50Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Chinese jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other MiG-21 versions
| link = MiG-21 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=j_7e
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
|cockpit=Cockpit_j_7e.jpg
}}

== Description ==

The J-7E (Chinese: 歼-7E型歼击机; unified NATO codename: Fishcan) is a heavily-modified model of the MiG-21 series and one of the current support fighters of the PLAAF. The design of a double-delta J-7 was demanded not only by foreign customers, but also by the PLAAF themselves, where the jet would be the replacement of the bulk of J-6s in PLAAF service by late 1980s, as well as a way to earn foreign exchanges to fund the Project No.10 (J-10). Although being quite obsolete in today's standards, the jet is still rather cheap to operate and equipped with relatively advanced IR AAMs to deliver sudden strikes on foes, as well as a makeshift "lead-in" trainer for pilots before they operate newer jets.

Introduced in [[Update "Red Skies"]], the J-7E offers a very different way to upgrade a [[MiG-21 (Family)|Fishbed]] from the Soviet approach - not only does it have a more powerful engine and additional fuel, it also comes with the iconic double-delta wing with slats, making it a formidable competitor in terms of overall manoeuvrability and especially at lower speeds, which no Soviet Fishbed can ever offer. With its newer PL-5B missile and large countermeasure capacity, the J-7E can prove its abilities over its competitors and use its amazing manoeuvrability to dominate close-quarters engagements in the hands of a good pilot even facing more competent foes.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

The J-7E's airframe looks similar to the [[J-7II]] aside from the double delta wings, having a small nose and a thin fuselage spine like the early [[MiG-21F-13]] the J-7II was developed from. This contrasts with the Soviet MiG-21s, where from the [[MiG-21PFM]] onward, the noses and fuselage spines were enlarged to house search radars and hold additional fuel, respectively. To compensate for the increased weight and aerodynamic penalties, Soviet designers installed increasingly powerful engines. Even though the J-7E's new WP-13F (reverse engineered R-13-300 with some newer technologies) engine lags behind the [[MiG-21SMT]] and [[MiG-21bis]]'s engines in terms of maximum thrust, the J-7E actually weighs less than the [[MiG-21MF (Germany)|MiG-21MF]] and can make the most of its engine power. The acceleration and climb are not on the level of the legendary MiG-21bis but still competitive for a top rank fighter.

Thanks to the new engine and the slat-equipped double-delta wings, the J-7E has one of the most impressive manoeuvrability among all the current top-tier aircraft. The turn time is a whopping 29 seconds even when stock in RB, leaving most its competitors (other than F-5 family) behind by at least 3 seconds. Low-speed manoeuvrability and high-speed energy retention are greatly improved, addressing long-standing issues with the Fishbed family and presenting a pleasant surprise to new pilots. It is possible to make sustained high-G turns at above 1,000 km/h IAS without losing much airspeed at all and maintain good nose authority during spiral climbs or dogfights at near-stall speeds. The slats still work at 900 km/h, which helps with gun snapshots or missile leading at high speeds. The wing loading is lower than most contemporaries other than the [[J35D]] and [[Mirage IIIC]], which feature full tailless delta wings. The J-7E is very solid in close combat and can compete with Mirages and F-5s while dancing around heavier aircraft like [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|Phantoms]].

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max speed (km/h at 12,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,313 || 2,284 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 24.5 || 25.0 || 153.3 || 144.7 || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,458 || 2,387 || 23.5 || 24.0 || 209.1 || 180.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || - || 525 || 450 || ~11 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 650 || < 600 || < 790 || -
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Shenyang Liming WP-13F || 1
| colspan="2" | 5,712 kg || colspan="2" | 310 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel
|-
| 1,200 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 6,306 kg || 7,176 kg || 7,692 kg || 9,500 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 4,100 kgf || 6,666 kgf
| 1.06 || 0.93 || 0.87 || 0.70
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 4,100 kgf (0 km/h) || 7,132 kgf (1,200 km/h)
| 1.13 || 0.99 || 0.93 || 0.75
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


The J-7E comes with a 10 mm plate behind pilot's head and a 16 mm plate behind the ejection seat. While it doesn't prove to be much of a concern of cannons, it does help to stop some smaller-calibre gunfire. There is also a 60 mm windshield that is durable enough to take some shots than all the remaining part of the aircraft. The armour still doesn't count for much considering that top-tier aircraft primarily rely on missiles and tend to have very powerful guns, so avoid being hit.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|Type 30-1 (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 1 x 30 mm Type 30-1 cannon, belly-mounted (60 rpg)
* 72 x countermeasures

Because the addition of a new fuel tank to the lower left side of the aircraft and compensation for the weight of newer missiles, unlike its predecessor, the J-7E has only a single Type 30-1 cannon on the starboard side. It does have good ballistics and firepower (a few hits will rip apart most aircraft), but for pilots without good aiming skills the stingy 60-round ammo capacity will be very painful. Experienced pilots may prefer it over the 23 mm cannon used by most Soviet Fishbeds due to its accuracy and stopping power. In SB, the J-7E comes with a HUD and the ranging radar is linked to it, making it somewhat useful to track down enemies and gun them down with a bit more precision. However, pilots do need to compensate the offset of the starboard gun and aim a bit towards the left when shooting at closer ranges.

Belt selection is largely up to personal taste but the "Armoured Targets" belt is generally the most consistent, often dealing hefty kinetic damage to enemy aircraft. The APHE rounds have decent penetration but it is not advised to use the gun against ground targets in mixed battles; they can be effective against thinly armoured targets, but the limited ammunition should be reserved for aircraft and going on gun runs is very dangerous against top-tier SPAA vehicles.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}


The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="11%" | 1 !! width="11%" | 2 !! width="11%" | 3 !! width="11%" | 4
| rowspan="9" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! [[250-3 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-3]] bombs
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[250-4 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-4]] bombs
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[500-3 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-3]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[500-4 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-4]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[Type 90-1]] rockets
| 7 || 7 || 7 || 7
|-
! [[Type 130-2]] rockets
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 4
|-
! [[PL-2]] missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[PL-5B]] missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
|}

{{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}

* Without load
* 2 x PL-5B missiles
* 4 x PL-2 missiles
* 4 x PL-5B missiles
* 16 x Type 130-2 rockets
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
* 4 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 4 x 250 kg 250-4 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-4 bombs (1,000 kg total)
{{Navigation-End}}

The J-7E has a lot of ordnance options to choose from. The PL-5B is the first competitive missile available to any PLAAF fighter in War Thunder and is a strong selling point of the J-7E compared to its predecessors. It has a 30 G overload, a wide acquisition radius, and strong acceleration, making it one of the most effective rear-aspect missiles in War Thunder. The absence of launch limiter on the PL-5B means that you can fire as soon as the target is within the acquisition radius. The J-7E lacks any radar-guided or all-aspect missiles and cannot surprise targets in head-on engagements.

The J-7E's ordnance improvements are not limited to air-to-air combat. For ground attack, it has access to 250 kg and 500 kg bombs like the J-7II, but it now uses much improved Type 90-1 and Type 130-2 rockets as seen on the [[Q-5A]] instead of the weak 57 mm HF-5 rockets. The 90 mm Type 90-1 rockets are equivalents of the US FFAR rockets and nothing special. The 130 mm Type 130-2 rockets have HE warheads and direct impacts will easily dispatch light tanks and SPAAs. Against top-tier MBTs, accurate hits to the turret and hull roof armour will work the best, as side impacts can be inconsistent. The J-7E's ballistic computer makes it much easier to aim the rockets accurately.

The J-7E can also carry 250 kg and 500 kg bombs. The ballistic computer's CCIP and CCRP functionality allows them to be used to good effect in mixed battles in the absence of enemy air defense.

== Usage in battles ==


The J-7E is something like a hybrid between a MiG-21 and an F-5 in terms of flight performance and role. It obviously is an evolution of the Fishbed and enjoys many of the MiG-21's strengths in top speed, acceleration, and climb. At the same time, the new design corrects many of the MiG-21's vices and it ends up being a very nimble dogfighter that can turn well and maintain its energy like an F-5. This gives it flexibility in terms of how to approach combat. At the beginning of a match, the J-7E can sideclimb and make its way to medium or high altitude, then cruise into battle at supersonic speeds. Distracted targets at similar altitudes are prime missile targets. When it is time to join the furballs below, the J-7E can swoop in on vulnerable targets and put its agility to use.

Gunning straight into battle at lower altitudes from the start of a match, which is customary for Fishbeds, is also an option. Start to "patrol" for anyone who is possibly in their tunnel vision (where a person has only a little FOV due to his speed), then go ahead and assault them with your powerful PL-5B AAMs. They can make short work of the enemies with their 30G overload and excellent acceleration. If you only have PL-2s, which are barely better than no missiles, or even worse, only the cannon left, be very cautious on when should you fire a burst or launch the missiles. If you wasted the chance, pilots could meet their demise pretty quick if your team is on the disadvantage. And it should be reminded that unless really necessary or it is one-on-one dual with your enemy, in most cases do not dogfight for very long times to avoid presenting a slow and easy target for outside enemies to pick off. But if you have to, bleed the opponent's energy as much as you could: your higher thrust-to-weight ratio and double-delta shine here, assisting in getting on the enemy's six and staying there.

The new PL-5B introduced to the PLAAF arsenal can on paper pull 30G upon its targets, which makes it extremely efficient when dueling with enemies who are not paying enough attention. But all this come at a price: you only have the starboard Type 30-1 cannon as the last ditch weapon, and thus you have only 60 rounds just like the original [[MiG-21F-13]]. Players who have experience with the [[J-6A]] and [[J-7II]] should have a good idea of the cannon's ballistics, but the off-center placement may take some getting used to. In this case, pilots should pick enemies who have recently manoeuvred, then go straight upon them and aim a bit to the left to compensate the gun's placement; a burst from 30 mm can tear down anything that flies with some precision.

Countermeasures and a radar warning receiver allow the J-7E to have good defensive capabilities, but the aircraft only has a ranging radar instead of a proper search radar. This means that the RWR is the primary source of information on enemy positions besides the in-game spotting mechanic. Remember that some aircraft like the [[F-5C]] do not have a radar at all and those that do can still turn their radar search off to preserve stealth. The J-7E does not have any radar guided missiles and the primitive radar is not relevant during active combat.

=== Enemies worth noting ===

* [[F-5E|F-5]] series: F-5s are always a tough enemy to deal with due to its smaller size and above average manoeuvrability, making him the arch-enemy of J-7E. But thanks to your overall higher thrust-to-weight ratio and double-delta, you can still do some dogfight with him but be caution with your next step: one small wrong move can mean your quick demise. The best solution to handle F-5s are your PL-5Bs, if they are careless enough, they will not have the chance to fly back to the airfield since they have already been shattered by the explosive mass of the missile. If missile is not an option, keep as fast as you could and leave the airspace for another attack run; only hitting him when the tides of battle really allows you to do so.

* [[Mirage IIIE|Mirage III]] series: they have the infamous [[Matra R550 Magic 1|Magic R.550]] and [[Matra R530]] at their disposal and these missiles can send anything that flies back to the hangar with ease. Their high angle of attack also worth mentioning since they can still sacrifice some more speed in the short run and hit you with the cannons. In this case, keep your speed, try to bleed their energy and avoid their Magics with flares, without them, the J-7E with its higher acceleration and energy retention can duel the Mirage III with relative ease.

* [[J35D]]: Currently the only other fighter in War Thunder with a double-delta wing, the Draken has incredibly low wing loading, a good thrust-to-weight ratio, and powerful RB24J missiles that are functionally identical to AIM-9Js. Its missiles are not quite as potent as the Magics used by the Mirages, but the plane can pull off some very impressive manoeuvres, so be cautious when dogfighting with a Draken for the first few turns and be prepared to drop flares if necessary. The Draken's design is a double edged sword however, because the entire aircraft being a lifting body means that it acts like an enormous airbrake during hard turns, losing immense speed. The tailed double-delta configuration of the J-7E is more balanced and its superior energy retention will give a careful pilot the upper hand in an extended engagement. The J35D also lacks flares, is a large target, and has an even more awkward gun placement than the J-7E, so it's not particularly threatening when its speed is gone.

* [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|F-4 Phantoms]]: Other than the [[F-4C]]: All top-tier Phantoms are large, bulky planes that will suffer heavily in a dogfight with the J-7E, but they are fast and may be able to outrun the J-7E and other Fishbeds at low altitude courtesy of their higher rip speeds (less so for the FGR/FG if they are carrying gun pods). Careful Phantom pilots will maintain their energy and repeatedly sling missiles at the J-7E while avoiding dogfights, and they also carry plenty of flares to avoid return fire from PL-5Bs. The British Phantoms boast pulse-doppler radars that can guide AIM-7 Sparrows against ground clutter while staying at high altitude. The J-7E has a radar warning receiver and an impressive supply of countermeasures for a light fighter, so long range Sparrow shots can be detected and evaded, but such launches are still annoying to deal with and can wear down the J-7E. Coordinate with teammates, trash their Sparrow shots to force them to switch to short-range IR missiles, and bait them into close quarters engagements where the J-7E excels. The German [[F-4F]] lacks radar-guided missiles despite being otherwise modern, so it is less of a threat.

* [[JA37C|JA37C Viggen]]: Another very iconic jet from Sweden and it is among the most advanced and manoeuvrable jets; the first mass-produced jet that ever comes with a canard. With one of the highest climb rate thanks to its aerodynamic design and powerful engine, as well as an advanced radar with look-down capabilities, this jet among with Phantoms are tough targets to engage. So a good way to avoid quick demise from their Skyflash missiles is to stay as low as you could, where its radar couldn't detect with ease, and try to take a detour behind the enemy lines where they will be concentrated on your teammates, then strike them when they are unaware of it. If that is not the case and you have gone into a dogfight with it, do not head-on as you are a piece of cake to Skyflash. Keep also your speed and manoeuvres in check, bite on its tail as much as you can, since there's a risk for the J-7E to overshoot and get shot by the Viggen's 30 mm cannons.

* [[MiG-23 (Family)]]: The family of late Warsaw Pact variable-swept wing aircraft in-game, the Floggers, have a higher thrust than J-7E does and it does come with better avionics and head-on capable R-60M missiles (MiG-23M and MiG-27M) which can make short work of careless players. The R-24T on the MiG-23MLD are also worth mentioning as they have quite a long radius, are IRST-guided and won't trigger your RWR. But the good news is that in many cases, if the enemy player didn't pay enough attention to tailing J-7E, they are still easy preys to your missiles or sometimes your 30 mm cannons, with such a large airframe, hits can be achieved with ease; but do note that some experienced players will manually control the swept angle of the wings and keep in dogfight for quite a while.

* [[F-16 (Family)]] All F-16s are extremely powerful opponents and your perfect counter, having a strong PD radar and AIM-7Ms being able to destroy you easily even from long ranges without a proper care, and the AIM-9L with a high burning time and G tolerance for an IR missile
** To defeat the AIM-7M, try to estimate his position by the missile's trails and your RWR, and go on a defensive with the proper use of chaff and notching the enemy's radar to make the radar lose track and so will the missile.
** In short to medium ranges, the AIM-9L would be used, but can be easily fooled by flares, with the low heat emission of the J-7E helping as well. However, the AIM-9L can reach long ranges, and so your situational awareness has to be redoubled if an F-16 is near to make sure they don't catch you unaware.
** In dogfight scenarios, it can be very tricky to win against one decent pilot, always try to pull a F-16 to high speeds to make their controls "compress" by their fly-by-wire system and limiting the turning/rolling capacity, and always forcing a scissors in this short period of time, but never trying to do an extended rate fight in a considerable time, because that's the true advantage the F-16 has over you, and try to leave this scissors in case of disadvantage and repeating that same tactic with enough speed
** The F-16 has a radar leading computer for its M61 Vulcan cannon. As the Vulcan is already well known for a high accuracy, muzzle velocity, fire rate and damage, the leading computer turns the canon into a deadly point-and-click weapon. Try to fly more unpredictably to make it hard for the enemy to get a good aim, as well as avoid being radar-locked for the leading computer to get an aiming solution.
** The {{PAGENAME}} also has a radar gunsight, giving it the ability to lock the missile automatically at the enemy even in short ranges, and thanks to the extreme acceleration, G-tolerance and wide seeker of the PL-5B, it's possible to catch people by surprise even less than 1 km and with their reaction time being almost null.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* New engines with higher thrust and overall acceleration thanks to the lighter weight than Soviet MiG-21s
* Unique double-delta wings that gives impressive manoeuvrability and energy retention at its tier
* Multifunctional HUD and full ballistic computer functionality
* Comes with extremely advanced RWR and 72 countermeasures
* PL-5B missiles can make very short work of your enemies with their 30G overload and long boost time
* Good selection of ground attack weaponry, including powerful 130 mm rockets and 500 kg bombs

'''Cons:'''

* Single gun on starboard with only 60 rounds, very challenging to aim
* Lacks a fire-control radar and radar-guided weaponry
* No all-aspect IR missiles
* Missile capacity of 4 is below average
* Engine can be prone to overheat with extended use

== History ==

The CAC J-7 Fishbed (alternatively called a Fishcan to differentiate from the [[MiG-21 (Family)|Soviet built ones]]) has entered PLAAF service since late 1960s, but due to the political turmoil and lack of documents due to Sino-Soviet split, it was not until the mid-1970s until the [[J-7II]] had a steady pace of manufacture. The 4th major revision of this airframe, J-7IV, aka J-7E, can be traced back to the 1980s.

In the early 1980s, Mainland China had better relationships with European countries who seek to open up their military equipment market; thus during these days the older J-7II received a overhaul upgrade coded J-7B (or F-7M in foreign market) with British electronic equipment provided by GEC Marconi; while at the same time Chinese got their hands on a few [[MiG-21MF (Germany)|MiG-21MF]] from Egypt for upgrading the PLAAF fleet with a faster and radar-equipped aircraft, which later became the J-7C/D. They however failed to meet PLAAF's requirements on low speed dogfight doctrine and only a mere 54 aircraft were manufactured, though they were impressed by the R-13-300 engines on them and thus it became the Shenyang Liming WP-13 engine.

Although all these must be supported with a higher military budget (which wasn't available in the 1980s due to the economic reform) and during the late 1980s, most of the budget went to the later J-10 "Firebird"; while there were the mass of the older Shenyang [[J-6A|J-6]] fleet that needed replacement and PLAAF was in dire need for a fighter that came with ground-attacking capabilities (even the Shenyang J-8II was among the modified aircraft), so the CAC (Chengdu Aircraft Corp.) decided to made an upgrade on J-7 based on the opinion from foreign users, especially in terms of manoeuvrability .

Thus, the J-7IV (that later became the J-7E) program started in 1987 and by May 1991, it made its first flight and 2 years later it came into PLAAF commission.

The main improvement was the manoeuvrability, with the new WP-13 engine and the iconic double-delta designed by Northwestern Polytechnical University (西北工业大学 in Xi'an, Shaanxi) with a slat that can be lowered to 25° (and in fact the first PRC fighter with slats) that really helped its manoeuvrability - in a PLAAF's exercise in 1993, it was concluded that it was 43% better than older J-7II, as well as longer range with additional fuel tanks at the cost of giving up the port side cannon due to decreasing usage of cannons. Other improvements included additional pair of pylon, domestic avionics with a HUD, as well as some of the cockpit gauges were digital.

These 260 J-7Es built from 1994 to 2001 became the gap filler for PLAAF in the struggling days during the heat of 2nd Taiwan Strait Crisis; in 2006, based on the later F-7PG that came with an Italian radar (later domestic radar); the ultimate Fishbed of Mainland China- the J-7G came into service, with HMDs and latest avionics. Both serving as a supplementary jets to frontline airfields and cheaper solution to fill the gap until newer J-10C and J-11 series replace them.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=j_7e Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|uPiZbwP0IUA|'''My Definite Favourite - J-7E Red Skies''' - ''DEFYN''|yQfhODlSmJo|'''The Shooting Range #257''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:27 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|cSY9Dymym9A|'''The Most Underrated Plane Of Patch 2.7: J-7E''' - ''Spit_flyer''}}

== See also ==


;[[MiG-21 (Family)|Related development]]

* [[J-7II]]
* [[J-7D]]

== External links ==


* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/526070-chengdu-j-7e/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]

{{AirManufacturer Chengdu}}
{{China jet aircraft}}

J-7E

2023-07-03T04:20:59Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Chinese jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other MiG-21 versions
| link = MiG-21 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=j_7e
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
|cockpit=Cockpit_j_7e.jpg
}}

== Description ==

The J-7E (Chinese: 歼-7E型歼击机; unified NATO codename: Fishcan) is a heavily-modified model of the MiG-21 series and one of the current support fighters of the PLAAF. The design of a double-delta J-7 was demanded not only by foreign customers, but also by the PLAAF themselves, where the jet would be the replacement of the bulk of J-6s in PLAAF service by late 1980s, as well as a way to earn foreign exchanges to fund the Project No.10 (J-10). Although being quite obsolete in today's standards, the jet is still rather cheap to operate and equipped with relatively advanced IR AAMs to deliver sudden strikes on foes, as well as a makeshift "lead-in" trainer for pilots before they operate newer jets.

Introduced in [[Update "Red Skies"]], the J-7E offers a very different way to upgrade a [[MiG-21 (Family)|Fishbed]] from the Soviet approach - not only does it have a more powerful engine and additional fuel, it also comes with the iconic double-delta wing with slats, making it a formidable competitor in terms of overall manoeuvrability and especially at lower speeds, which no Soviet Fishbed can ever offer. With its newer PL-5B missile and large countermeasure capacity, the J-7E can prove its abilities over its competitors and use its amazing manoeuvrability to dominate close-quarters engagements in the hands of a good pilot even facing more competent foes.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

The J-7E's airframe looks similar to the [[J-7II]] aside from the double delta wings, having a small nose and a thin fuselage spine like the early [[MiG-21F-13]] the J-7II was developed from. This contrasts with the Soviet MiG-21s, where from the [[MiG-21PFM]] onward, the noses and fuselage spines were enlarged to house search radars and hold additional fuel, respectively. To compensate for the increased weight and aerodynamic penalties, Soviet designers installed increasingly powerful engines. Even though the J-7E's new WP-13F (reverse engineered R-13-300 with some newer technologies) engine lags behind the [[MiG-21SMT]] and [[MiG-21bis]]'s engines in terms of maximum thrust, the J-7E actually weighs less than the [[MiG-21MF (Germany)|MiG-21MF]] and can make the most of its engine power. The acceleration and climb are not on the level of the legendary MiG-21bis but still competitive for a top rank fighter.

Thanks to the new engine and the slat-equipped double-delta wings, the J-7E has one of the most impressive manoeuvrability among all the current top-tier aircraft. The turn time is a whopping 29 seconds even when stock in RB, leaving most its competitors (other than F-5 family) behind by at least 3 seconds. Low-speed manoeuvrability and high-speed energy retention are greatly improved, addressing long-standing issues with the Fishbed family and presenting a pleasant surprise to new pilots. It is possible to make sustained high-G turns at above 1,000 km/h IAS without losing much airspeed at all and maintain good nose authority during spiral climbs or dogfights at near-stall speeds. The slats still work at 900 km/h, which helps with gun snapshots or missile leading at high speeds. The wing loading is lower than most contemporaries other than the [[J35D]] and [[Mirage IIIC]], which feature full tailless delta wings. The J-7E is very solid in close combat and can compete with Mirages and F-5s while dancing around heavier aircraft like [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|Phantoms]].

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 12,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,187 || 2,156 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 28.5 || 29.0 || 153.3 || 144.6 || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,255 || 2,230 || 27.3 || 28.2 || 187.2 || 178.5
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 525 || 450 || ~11 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 650 || < 600 || < 790 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Shenyang Liming WP-13F || 1
| colspan="2" | 5,712 kg || colspan="2" | 310 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel
|-
| 1,200 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 6,306 kg || 7,176 kg || 7,692 kg || 9,500 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 4,100 kgf || 6,666 kgf
| 1.06 || 0.93 || 0.87 || 0.70
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 4,100 kgf (0 km/h) || 7,132 kgf (1,200 km/h)
| 1.13 || 0.99 || 0.93 || 0.75
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


The J-7E comes with a 10 mm plate behind pilot's head and a 16 mm plate behind the ejection seat. While it doesn't prove to be much of a concern of cannons, it does help to stop some smaller-calibre gunfire. There is also a 60 mm windshield that is durable enough to take some shots than all the remaining part of the aircraft. The armour still doesn't count for much considering that top-tier aircraft primarily rely on missiles and tend to have very powerful guns, so avoid being hit.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|Type 30-1 (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 30 mm Type 30-1 cannon, belly-mounted (60 rpg)
** 1 x 30 mm Type 30-1 cannon + 72 x countermeasures

Because the addition of a new fuel tank to the lower left side of the aircraft and compensation for the weight of newer missiles, unlike its predecessor, the J-7E has only a single Type 30-1 cannon on the starboard side. It does have good ballistics and firepower (a few hits will rip apart most aircraft), but for pilots without good aiming skills the stingy 60-round ammo capacity will be very painful. Experienced pilots may prefer it over the 23 mm cannon used by most Soviet Fishbeds due to its accuracy and stopping power. In SB, the J-7E comes with a HUD and the ranging radar is linked to it, making it somewhat useful to track down enemies and gun them down with a bit more precision. However, pilots do need to compensate the offset of the starboard gun and aim a bit towards the left when shooting at closer ranges.

Belt selection is largely up to personal taste but the "Armoured Targets" belt is generally the most consistent, often dealing hefty kinetic damage to enemy aircraft. The APHE rounds have decent penetration but it is not advised to use the gun against ground targets in mixed battles; they can be effective against thinly armoured targets, but the limited ammunition should be reserved for aircraft and going on gun runs is very dangerous against top-tier SPAA vehicles.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}


The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="11%" | 1 !! width="11%" | 2 !! width="11%" | 3 !! width="11%" | 4
| rowspan="9" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! [[250-3 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-3]] bombs
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[250-4 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-4]] bombs
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[500-3 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-3]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[500-4 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-4]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[Type 90-1]] rockets
| 7 || 7 || 7 || 7
|-
! [[Type 130-2]] rockets
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 4
|-
! [[PL-2]] missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[PL-5B]] missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
|}

{{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}

* Without load
* 2 x PL-5B missiles
* 4 x PL-2 missiles
* 4 x PL-5B missiles
* 16 x Type 130-2 rockets
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
* 4 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 4 x 250 kg 250-4 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-4 bombs (1,000 kg total)
{{Navigation-End}}

The J-7E has a lot of ordnance options to choose from. The PL-5B is the first competitive missile available to any PLAAF fighter in War Thunder and is a strong selling point of the J-7E compared to its predecessors. It has a 30 G overload, a wide acquisition radius, and strong acceleration, making it one of the most effective rear-aspect missiles in War Thunder. The absence of launch limiter on the PL-5B means that you can fire as soon as the target is within the acquisition radius. The J-7E lacks any radar-guided or all-aspect missiles and cannot surprise targets in head-on engagements.

The J-7E's ordnance improvements are not limited to air-to-air combat. For ground attack, it has access to 250 kg and 500 kg bombs like the J-7II, but it now uses much improved Type 90-1 and Type 130-2 rockets as seen on the [[Q-5A]] instead of the weak 57 mm HF-5 rockets. The 90 mm Type 90-1 rockets are equivalents of the US FFAR rockets and nothing special. The 130 mm Type 130-2 rockets have HE warheads and direct impacts will easily dispatch light tanks and SPAAs. Against top-tier MBTs, accurate hits to the turret and hull roof armour will work the best, as side impacts can be inconsistent. The J-7E's ballistic computer makes it much easier to aim the rockets accurately.

The J-7E can also carry 250 kg and 500 kg bombs. The ballistic computer's CCIP and CCRP functionality allows them to be used to good effect in mixed battles in the absence of enemy air defense.

== Usage in battles ==


The J-7E is something like a hybrid between a MiG-21 and an F-5 in terms of flight performance and role. It obviously is an evolution of the Fishbed and enjoys many of the MiG-21's strengths in top speed, acceleration, and climb. At the same time, the new design corrects many of the MiG-21's vices and it ends up being a very nimble dogfighter that can turn well and maintain its energy like an F-5. This gives it flexibility in terms of how to approach combat. At the beginning of a match, the J-7E can sideclimb and make its way to medium or high altitude, then cruise into battle at supersonic speeds. Distracted targets at similar altitudes are prime missile targets. When it is time to join the furballs below, the J-7E can swoop in on vulnerable targets and put its agility to use.

Gunning straight into battle at lower altitudes from the start of a match, which is customary for Fishbeds, is also an option. Start to "patrol" for anyone who is possibly in their tunnel vision (where a person has only a little FOV due to his speed), then go ahead and assault them with your powerful PL-5B AAMs. They can make short work of the enemies with their 30G overload and excellent acceleration. If you only have PL-2s, which are barely better than no missiles, or even worse, only the cannon left, be very cautious on when should you fire a burst or launch the missiles. If you wasted the chance, pilots could meet their demise pretty quick if your team is on the disadvantage. And it should be reminded that unless really necessary or it is one-on-one dual with your enemy, in most cases do not dogfight for very long times to avoid presenting a slow and easy target for outside enemies to pick off. But if you have to, bleed the opponent's energy as much as you could: your higher thrust-to-weight ratio and double-delta shine here, assisting in getting on the enemy's six and staying there.

The new PL-5B introduced to the PLAAF arsenal can on paper pull 30G upon its targets, which makes it extremely efficient when dueling with enemies who are not paying enough attention. But all this come at a price: you only have the starboard Type 30-1 cannon as the last ditch weapon, and thus you have only 60 rounds just like the original [[MiG-21F-13]]. Players who have experience with the [[J-6A]] and [[J-7II]] should have a good idea of the cannon's ballistics, but the off-center placement may take some getting used to. In this case, pilots should pick enemies who have recently manoeuvred, then go straight upon them and aim a bit to the left to compensate the gun's placement; a burst from 30 mm can tear down anything that flies with some precision.

Countermeasures and a radar warning receiver allow the J-7E to have good defensive capabilities, but the aircraft only has a ranging radar instead of a proper search radar. This means that the RWR is the primary source of information on enemy positions besides the in-game spotting mechanic. Remember that some aircraft like the [[F-5C]] do not have a radar at all and those that do can still turn their radar search off to preserve stealth. The J-7E does not have any radar guided missiles and the primitive radar is not relevant during active combat.

=== Enemies worth noting ===

* [[F-5E|F-5]] series: F-5s are always a tough enemy to deal with due to its smaller size and above average manoeuvrability, making him the arch-enemy of J-7E. But thanks to your overall higher thrust-to-weight ratio and double-delta, you can still do some dogfight with him but be caution with your next step: one small wrong move can mean your quick demise. The best solution to handle F-5s are your PL-5Bs, if they are careless enough, they will not have the chance to fly back to the airfield since they have already been shattered by the explosive mass of the missile. If missile is not an option, keep as fast as you could and leave the airspace for another attack run; only hitting him when the tides of battle really allows you to do so.

* [[Mirage IIIE|Mirage III]] series: they have the infamous [[Matra R550 Magic 1|Magic R.550]] and [[Matra R530]] at their disposal and these missiles can send anything that flies back to the hangar with ease. Their high angle of attack also worth mentioning since they can still sacrifice some more speed in the short run and hit you with the cannons. In this case, keep your speed, try to bleed their energy and avoid their Magics with flares, without them, the J-7E with its higher acceleration and energy retention can duel the Mirage III with relative ease.

* [[J35D]]: Currently the only other fighter in War Thunder with a double-delta wing, the Draken has incredibly low wing loading, a good thrust-to-weight ratio, and powerful RB24J missiles that are functionally identical to AIM-9Js. Its missiles are not quite as potent as the Magics used by the Mirages, but the plane can pull off some very impressive manoeuvres, so be cautious when dogfighting with a Draken for the first few turns and be prepared to drop flares if necessary. The Draken's design is a double edged sword however, because the entire aircraft being a lifting body means that it acts like an enormous airbrake during hard turns, losing immense speed. The tailed double-delta configuration of the J-7E is more balanced and its superior energy retention will give a careful pilot the upper hand in an extended engagement. The J35D also lacks flares, is a large target, and has an even more awkward gun placement than the J-7E, so it's not particularly threatening when its speed is gone.

* [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|F-4 Phantoms]]: Other than the [[F-4C]]: All top-tier Phantoms are large, bulky planes that will suffer heavily in a dogfight with the J-7E, but they are fast and may be able to outrun the J-7E and other Fishbeds at low altitude courtesy of their higher rip speeds (less so for the FGR/FG if they are carrying gun pods). Careful Phantom pilots will maintain their energy and repeatedly sling missiles at the J-7E while avoiding dogfights, and they also carry plenty of flares to avoid return fire from PL-5Bs. The British Phantoms boast pulse-doppler radars that can guide AIM-7 Sparrows against ground clutter while staying at high altitude. The J-7E has a radar warning receiver and an impressive supply of countermeasures for a light fighter, so long range Sparrow shots can be detected and evaded, but such launches are still annoying to deal with and can wear down the J-7E. Coordinate with teammates, trash their Sparrow shots to force them to switch to short-range IR missiles, and bait them into close quarters engagements where the J-7E excels. The German [[F-4F]] lacks radar-guided missiles despite being otherwise modern, so it is less of a threat.

* [[JA37C|JA37C Viggen]]: Another very iconic jet from Sweden and it is among the most advanced and manoeuvrable jets; the first mass-produced jet that ever comes with a canard. With one of the highest climb rate thanks to its aerodynamic design and powerful engine, as well as an advanced radar with look-down capabilities, this jet among with Phantoms are tough targets to engage. So a good way to avoid quick demise from their Skyflash missiles is to stay as low as you could, where its radar couldn't detect with ease, and try to take a detour behind the enemy lines where they will be concentrated on your teammates, then strike them when they are unaware of it. If that is not the case and you have gone into a dogfight with it, do not head-on as you are a piece of cake to Skyflash. Keep also your speed and manoeuvres in check, bite on its tail as much as you can, since there's a risk for the J-7E to overshoot and get shot by the Viggen's 30 mm cannons.

* [[MiG-23 (Family)]]: The family of late Warsaw Pact variable-swept wing aircraft in-game, the Floggers, have a higher thrust than J-7E does and it does come with better avionics and head-on capable R-60M missiles (MiG-23M and MiG-27M) which can make short work of careless players. The R-24T on the MiG-23MLD are also worth mentioning as they have quite a long radius, are IRST-guided and won't trigger your RWR. But the good news is that in many cases, if the enemy player didn't pay enough attention to tailing J-7E, they are still easy preys to your missiles or sometimes your 30 mm cannons, with such a large airframe, hits can be achieved with ease; but do note that some experienced players will manually control the swept angle of the wings and keep in dogfight for quite a while.

* [[F-16 (Family)]] All F-16s are extremely powerful opponents and your perfect counter, having a strong PD radar and AIM-7Ms being able to destroy you easily even from long ranges without a proper care, and the AIM-9L with a high burning time and G tolerance for an IR missile
** To defeat the AIM-7M, try to estimate his position by the missile's trails and your RWR, and go on a defensive with the proper use of chaff and notching the enemy's radar to make the radar lose track and so will the missile.
** In short to medium ranges, the AIM-9L would be used, but can be easily fooled by flares, with the low heat emission of the J-7E helping as well. However, the AIM-9L can reach long ranges, and so your situational awareness has to be redoubled if an F-16 is near to make sure they don't catch you unaware.
** In dogfight scenarios, it can be very tricky to win against one decent pilot, always try to pull a F-16 to high speeds to make their controls "compress" by their fly-by-wire system and limiting the turning/rolling capacity, and always forcing a scissors in this short period of time, but never trying to do an extended rate fight in a considerable time, because that's the true advantage the F-16 has over you, and try to leave this scissors in case of disadvantage and repeating that same tactic with enough speed
** The F-16 has a radar leading computer for its M61 Vulcan cannon. As the Vulcan is already well known for a high accuracy, muzzle velocity, fire rate and damage, the leading computer turns the canon into a deadly point-and-click weapon. Try to fly more unpredictably to make it hard for the enemy to get a good aim, as well as avoid being radar-locked for the leading computer to get an aiming solution.
** The {{PAGENAME}} also has a radar gunsight, giving it the ability to lock the missile automatically at the enemy even in short ranges, and thanks to the extreme acceleration, G-tolerance and wide seeker of the PL-5B, it's possible to catch people by surprise even less than 1 km and with their reaction time being almost null.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* New engines with higher thrust and overall acceleration thanks to the lighter weight than Soviet MiG-21s
* Unique double-delta wings that gives impressive manoeuvrability and energy retention at its tier
* Multifunctional HUD and full ballistic computer functionality
* Comes with RWR and 72 countermeasures
* PL-5B missiles can make very short work of your enemies with their 30G overload and long boost time
* Good selection of ground attack weaponry, including powerful 130 mm rockets and 500 kg bombs

'''Cons:'''

* Single gun on starboard with only 60 rounds, very challenging to aim
* Lacks a fire-control radar and radar-guided weaponry
* No all-aspect IR missiles
* Missile capacity of 4 is below average
* RWR only displays 4 quadrants and does not display the exact position of a radar lock in respective to the aircraft, notching PD radar missiles can prove more difficult.
* Engine can be prone to overheat occasionally with extended use

== History ==

The CAC J-7 Fishbed (alternatively called a Fishcan to differentiate from the [[MiG-21 (Family)|Soviet built ones]]) has entered PLAAF service since late 1960s, but due to the political turmoil and lack of documents due to Sino-Soviet split, it was until the mid-1970s where the [[J-7II]] has a steady pace of manufacture. The 4th major revision of this airframe, J-7IV, aka J-7E, needs to trace back to the 1980s.

In the early 1980s, Mainland China had better relationships with European countries who seek to open up their military equipment market; thus during these days the older J-7II received a overhaul upgrade coded J-7B (or F-7M in foreign market) with British electronic equipment provided by GEC Marconi; while at the same time Chinese got their hands on a few [[MiG-21MF (Germany)|MiG-21MF]] from Egypt for upgrading the PLAAF fleet with a faster and radar-equipped aircraft, which later became the J-7C/D. They however failed to meet PLAAF's requirements on low speed dogfight doctrine and only a mere 54 aircraft were manufactured, though they were impressed by the R-13-300 engines on them and thus it became the Shenyang Liming WP-13 engine.

Although all these must be supported with a higher military budget (which wasn't available in the 1980s due to the economic reform) and during the late 1980s, most of the budget went to the later J-10 "Firebird"; while there were the mass of the older Shenyang [[J-6A|J-6]] fleet that needed replacement and PLAAF was in dire need for a fighter that came with ground-attacking capabilities (even the Shenyang J-8II was among the modified aircraft), so the CAC (Chengdu Aircraft Corp.) decided to made an upgrade on J-7 based on the opinion from foreign users, especially in terms of manoeuvrability .

Thus, the J-7IV (that later became the J-7E) program started in 1987 and by May 1991, it made its first flight and 2 years later it came into PLAAF commission.

The main improvement was the manoeuvrability, with the new WP-13 engine and the iconic double-delta designed by Northwestern Polytechnical University (西北工业大学 in Xi'an, Shaanxi) with a slat that can be lowered to 25° (and in fact the first PRC fighter with slats) that really helped its manoeuvrability - in a PLAAF's exercise in 1993, it was concluded that it was 43% better than older J-7II, as well as longer range with additional fuel tanks at the cost of giving up the port side cannon due to decreasing usage of cannons. Other improvements included additional pair of pylon, domestic avionics with a HUD, as well as some of the cockpit gauges were digital.

These 260 J-7Es built from 1994 to 2001 became the gap filler for PLAAF in the struggling days during the heat of 2nd Taiwan Strait Crisis; in 2006, based on the later F-7PG that came with an Italian radar (later domestic radar); the ultimate Fishbed of Mainland China- the J-7G came into service, with HMDs and latest avionics. Both serving as a supplementary jets to frontline airfields and cheaper solution to fill the gap until newer J-10C and J-11 series replace them.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=j_7e Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|uPiZbwP0IUA|'''My Definite Favourite - J-7E Red Skies''' - ''DEFYN''|yQfhODlSmJo|'''The Shooting Range #257''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:27 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|cSY9Dymym9A|'''The Most Underrated Plane Of Patch 2.7: J-7E''' - ''Spit_flyer''}}

== See also ==


;[[MiG-21 (Family)|Related development]]

* [[J-7II]]
* [[J-7D]]

== External links ==


* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/526070-chengdu-j-7e/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]

{{AirManufacturer Chengdu}}
{{China jet aircraft}}

A-1H

2023-06-23T03:25:41Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{Specs-Card
|code=douglas_a_1h
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
|market=id50201_a_1h_usa
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} American strike aircraft {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Fire and Ice"]] as a reward for [[Battle Pass: Season IX, "Smell of Victory"]].

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

''Describe how the aircraft behaves in the air. Speed, manoeuvrability, acceleration and allowable loads - these are the most important characteristics of the vehicle.''

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max speed (km/h at _,___ m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| ___ || ___ || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || rowspan="2" | ___
|-
! Upgraded
| ___ || ___ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear
|-
| ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 797  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || 364 || 346 || 252 || ~__ || ~__
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < ___ || < ___ || < ___ || > ___
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

The A-1H only has 2 15 mm steel plates on the side and 40 mm of bulletproof glass. The side armour can easily be penetrated with 20 mm rounds.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png|450px|thumb|right]]
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|M3 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 4 x 20 mm M3 cannons, wing-mounted (200 rpg = 800 total)
** 4 x 20 mm M3 cannons + 60 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}


The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="5%" | 1 !! width="5%" | 2 !! width="5%" | 3 !! width="5%" | 4 !! width="5%" | 5 !! width="5%" | 6 !! width="5%" | 7 !! width="5%" | 8 !! width="5%" | 9 !! width="5%" | 10 !! width="5%" | 11 !! width="5%" | 12 !! width="5%" | 13 !! width="5%" | 14 !! width="5%" | 15
|-
! [[M134 Minigun (7.62 mm)|7.62 mm M134 Minigun]] machine guns (1,500 rpg)
| || 1 || || 1 || || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || || 1 || || 1 ||
|-
! [[AN-M57 (250 lb)|250 lb AN-M57]] bombs
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1, 6 || 1, 6 || 1, 6 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[LDGP Mk 81 (250 lb)|250 lb LDGP Mk 81]] bombs
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1, 6 || 1, 6 || 1, 6 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[Mk 81 Snakeye (250 lb)|250 lb Mk 81 Snakeye]] bombs
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1, 6 || 1, 6 || 1, 6 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[AN-M64A1 (500 lb)|500 lb AN-M64A1]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|500 lb LDGP Mk 82]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1, 6 || 1, 6 || 1, 6 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || ||
|-
! [[Mk 82 Snakeye (500 lb)|500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1, 6 || 1, 6 || 1, 6 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|750 lb M117 cone 45]] bombs
| || || || || || || 1 || 1 || 1 || || || || || ||
|-
! [[LDGP Mk 83 (1,000 lb)|1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83]] bombs
| || || || || || || 1 || 1 || 1 || || || || || ||
|-
! [[LDGP Mk 84 (2,000 lb)|2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84]] bombs
| || || || || || || 1 || 1 || 1 || || || || || ||
|-
! [[BLU-1 incendiary]] bombs
| || || || || || || 1 || || 1 || || || || || ||
|-
! [[Mk 77 mod 2 incendiary]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[FFAR Mighty Mouse]] rockets
| 7, 19 || 7, 19 || 7, 19 || 7, 19 || 7 || 7, 19 || 7, 19 || || 7, 19 || 7, 19 || 7 || 7, 19 || 7, 19 || 7, 19 || 7, 19
|-
! [[HVAR]] rockets
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || || || || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP]] rockets
| || 4 || 4 || 4 || || 4 || 4 || || 4 || 4 || || 4 || 4 || 4 ||
|-
! "Special weapon"
| 1 || || || || || || || || || || || || || ||
|-
| colspan="16" | Maximum permissible loadout weight: 4,575 kg Maximum permissible wing load: 2,200 kg Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 1,300 kg
|-
|}

{{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}

* Without load
* 12 x HVAR rockets
* 98 x FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
* 228 x FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
* 40 x Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
* 30 x 250 lb LDGP Mk 81 bombs (7,500 lb total)
* 30 x 250 lb Mk 81 Snakeye bombs (7,500 lb total)
* 11 x 500 lb AN-M64A1 bombs (5,500 lb total)
* 18 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (9,000 lb total)
* 18 x 500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye bombs (9,000 lb total)
* 3 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (2,250 lb total)
* 3 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 3 x 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs (6,000 lb total)
* 11 x Mk 77 mod 2 incendiary bombs
* 2 x BLU-1 incendiary bombs
* 8 x 7.62 mm M134 Minigun machine guns (1,500 rpg = 12,000 total)
{{Navigation-End}}

== Usage in battles ==

The A-1H can perform well in battles at its BR, either in a CAS role with 30 x 250 lb bomb capacity, 228 x FFAR rockets and 11 x Mk 77 mod 2 incendiary bombs. Once the ordnance is expended, it can also perform decently as a fighter since it has flares, which allows for it to be used in higher tier battles.

=== Manual Engine Control ===
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="7" | MEC elements
|-
! rowspan="2" | Mixer
! rowspan="2" | Pitch
! colspan="3" | Radiator
! rowspan="2" | Supercharger
! rowspan="2" | Turbocharger
|-
! Oil !! Water !! Type
|-
| Controllable || Controllable Auto control available || Controllable Auto control available || Controllable Auto control available || Separate || Controllable 2 gears || Not controllable
|-
|}

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Huge and varied payload options, including napalms and rockets, as well as retarded bombs
* Access to custom loadout options
* Can mount up to 8 miniguns with plenty of ammunition, capable of destroying any planes with a short burst
* Access to countermeasures, making it an ideal CAS in ground battles
* Four 20 mm cannons are good for ground targets and plane
* Sturdy and armoured enough to tank on machine gun and cannon rounds

'''Cons:'''

* Mediocre manoeuvrability that worsens with a payload you carry
* 20 mm cannons and miniguns have different ballistic properties, can make lining up shot somewhat tricky
* Can face jet aircraft that can easily hunt down and destroy the plane
* Mighty Mouse Rockets are ineffective, requiring a direct hit even against SPAA

== History ==

''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the aircraft in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=douglas_a_1h Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|6OkWySAZEw0|'''The Shooting Range #354''' - ''Arsenal'' section at 07:12 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|R3ZIU3VGkOE|'''A-1H Skyraider: A Basic Review''' - ''Tims Variety''|NxhYLDgeMOE|'''Battle Pass: Smell of Victory''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 02:23 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''|cIV-3ekwmq8|'''The Shooting Range #327''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:27 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==


* [[AD Skyraider (Family)]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/7915-development-battle-pass-vehicles-a-1h-skyraider-en|[Devblog] Battle Pass vehicles: A-1H Skyraider]]

{{AirManufacturer Douglas}}
{{USA strike aircraft}}
{{USA premium aircraft}}

J-8F

2023-06-21T15:03:55Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Chinese jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = the other version
| link = J-8B
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=j_8f
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (Chinese: 歼-8F型歼击机; unified NATO codename: Finback 长须鲸) was the final combat variant of the J-8 series interceptors, built by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC, 沈飞) from remaining J-8II airframes or by upgrading previous J-8Ds in the mid-2000s. The project traces back to the J-8C (or J-8III) project for domestic avionic upgrades for J-8II: although the unreliable WP-14 engine ruined the whole project, the radar systems were tested rather successfully and marked the completion of a domestic pulse-Doppler radar. By the end of the 20th century, the plans for Project 12 (PL-12) were also on schedule for domestic ARH AAM. Thus the placeholder aircraft, J-8H, with a new radar joined the PLAAF with PL-11 SARH, while the J-8F with a modified radar based on the former radar and new NATO-equivalent FCS main bus was finalised by 2005 and became a cornerstone of the PLAAF until new interceptors replaced them from June 2022.

Introduced in [[Update "La Royale"]], the J-8F is the first domestic Chinese jet with a pulse-Doppler-capable radar, featuring new powerful PL-8 AAMs and the ability to mount missiles on all wing pylons. The jet is also upgraded with new engines with higher thrust, new all- RWR systems and the J-8II's signature differential elevators for better roll rate. While it is still unable to equip PL-11 SARH missiles due to incompatible radar equipment, the new PL-8 missile and avionics will not disappoint players.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

The J-8F, like any other variant of the J-8 series, can be summarized as "Fishbed on Steroids" where the original design of J-8 series were based on simply putting 2 engines onto an enlarged MiG-21-like airframe. While the J-8F retained the signature delta wing, differential elevators and side intakes from the II series, for better flight performance, the jet is equipped with two new engines with higher thrust and additional pair of wing fence by the outboard of the wings, as well as new RWR systems for better situational awareness. The overall performance is better than its predecessor, the [[J-8B]], in most aspects. Players who have already researched the former would get on hand with the new jet fairly quickly thanks to its identical, if not better manoeuvrability for such a huge jet thanks to its antique yet advanced internal components. It still cannot outturn MiG-29 or F-14s in any cases, but the delta wings will still keep the J-8F in a reasonable turn rate while the engines can ensure prolonged (albeit not suggested) dogfights with even earlier jets that are lighter.

The probability of being hit is proportional to the plane's overall size: this is especially true since the J-8II series have been the longest jets in game (at a whopping 21.93 m, at least 2 m longer than the F-14 series). Its delta wing will bleed the speed at fast rate during high AoA manoeuvres. Be extra careful on when to enter the battlefield and scatter enemy jet formations using its high speed, then turn back to the main battlefield for opportunities to take out lonely enemies or those who are careless about the situation; they will meet a swift end if the high-performance missiles guided by HMD hit them.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max speed (km/h at _,___ m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| ___ || ___ || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| ___ || ___ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || ___ || ___ || ___ || ~__ || ~__
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < ___ || < ___ || < ___ || -
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Shenyang Liming WP-13B-II || 2
| colspan="2" | _,___ kg || colspan="2" | ___ kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | {{Annotation|Max Gross Weight|Mass of the fully equipped aircraft with heaviest weapons load}}
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! _m fuel || __m fuel || __m fuel
|-
| ___ kg || colspan="2" | ___
| _,___ kg || _,___ kg || _,___ kg || _,___ kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (___%/WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || ___%/WEP
! _m fuel || __m fuel || __m fuel || MGW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || ___ kgf || ___ kgf
| _.__ || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
|-
| ''Optimal'' || ___ kgf (_ km/h) || ___ kgf (_ km/h)
| _.__ || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

Like most jets of its era, the J-8F still retained certain degree of extra protection due to its late introduction in the early 2000s on a rather obsolete airframe. Meanwhile, some standard equipment like self-sealing tanks are still present.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs) !! Lead indicator
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Cross}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|Type 23-3 (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon, belly-mounted (200 rpg)
** 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon + 64 x large calibre countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}


The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="6%" | 1 !! width="6%" | 2 !! width="6%" | 3 !! width="6%" | 4 !! width="6%" | 5 !! width="6%" | 6 !! width="6%" | 7
| rowspan="8" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_J-8B.png]]</div>
|-
! [[250-3 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-3]] bombs
| || 1 || || 6 || || 1 ||
|-
! [[250-4 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-4]] bombs
| || 1 || || 6 || || 1 ||
|-
! [[500-3 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-3]] bombs
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! [[500-4 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-4]] bombs
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! [[Type 90-1]] rockets
| 7 || 7 || || || || 7 || 7
|-
! [[PL-5B]] missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[PL-8]] missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
|}

{{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}

* Without load
* 2 x PL-5B missiles
* 6 x PL-5B missiles
* 6 x PL-8 missiles
* 8 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 8 x 250 kg 250-4 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-4 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
{{Navigation-End}}

For players who are very familiar with the loadouts on the J-8B, most of the available weapons are identical on both jets, with the PL-8 (licensed Rafael Python-3) being the exception. Due to the lack of radar-guided missiles, some players might find this a huge drawback that they will have to get close enough to enemy jets to even launch IR-guided AAMs at the first place. However, the PL-8 is a game-changer for the J-8F; with not only the best all-aspect locking range among NATO equivalents, the J-8F is also equipped with HMD for off-bore launches. A full loadout of 6 x PL-8 can be a nightmare for the enemy team if utilized carefully. The old faithful PL-5B still serves as its stock missiles - although it might be somewhat obsolete at the BR, launches on careless targets can still earn some quick victories.

The ground-attack loadout is totally identical to the J-8B though, with varieties of bombs and rockets at its disposal. Although neither the calibre nor explosive content of the Type 90-1 HEAT rocket is effective for hunting enemy MBTs even with a precise hit, they can still serve as an extra card on hand alongside the -3 series low drag GP bombs or -4 series drag chute retarded bombs. The bombs will certainly be more effective against more valuable targets such as MBTs, while saving rockets for vulnerable SPAA systems and light tanks.

== Usage in battles ==

Like its predecessors, the J-8F is designed to be a high-altitude interceptor that utilize ranges of missiles, especially radar-guided missiles; but due to avionic changes on J-8F, the only missile of such type is the PL-12 which is yet to introduce in future patches. This also eliminates the option to use earlier PL-11 or Aspide-1A SARH AAM from earlier variants of J-8II (J-8B, D and H). For the time being, the only two options are both IR missiles, PL-5B and PL-8. Still, the overall manoeuvrability is still surprisingly good for such a huge jet and retained the similar flight envelope of the late MiG-21 series (MF or bis). To make the best out of the J-8F, unless in dire situation or 1-vs-1, use the J-8F as an interceptor instead of a fighter where its sheer size will be a huge plus for enemy guns to land upon the airframe, ruining the aerodynamics of the jet or being shot down right away.

==== Air Battles: The High-Speed Missile Train ====
The sheer size of the jet and its NATO codename of "Finback" could be a problem when there are enemies behind the J-8F's tail. Due to the availability of only IR AAMs, instead of being an interceptor and hunt down high-flyers, doing the opposite, i.e rushing into chaotic battlefield and taking out enemy jets is a viable option as preceded from J-8B. Although having an AN/APG-66V equivalent radar is a major plus for the jet, it's currently more a mean to search BVR targets from long range to plan ahead for a sudden attack or interfere with enemy RWRs to hide oncoming radar-guided missiles from other teammates. Instead, it has another spade on its hand: a HMD fused with the technology from Russia and Israel. Not only it now enables off-bore lock-on to enemy jets, it also has a rather long acquisition range at whopping 5 km. The old friend PL-5B and newcomer PL-8 are the only available missiles for the jet. Even at this tier, the PL-5B still retains its immersive thrust that can take out enemy jets at around 4 km away while having 30 G overload, it is especially dangerous for careless jets which have no situational awareness for the incoming missile; HMD further enhance its acquisition at rear-aspects and making the J-8F able to fire with more flexibility upon enemy targets. While the PL-8 finally enables all-aspect lock on to enemy jets for PLAAF jets, not only it has the most immersive thrust among all NATO/US-allied countries IR AAMs, it also has unprecedented overload at 40 G which is more than enough to do all-aspect launches from unexpected angles at Mach 3.5 max speed thanks to the HMD. There are even occasions where low to high launches with more than 3 km altitude differences can hit targets at 5 km away, given the target didn't manoeuvre. With all 6 pylons available for IR missiles, scoring victories will not be a problem when picking the targets carefully i.e. those not using cycle salvos for flares or those already engaged in heated battles. Another note is that the J-8II series since the J-8D comes with a KJ8602 RWR with all-aspect detection, making players easier to identify threats without having to guess the exact direction.

Alternatively, some players will make use of its high payload to make extra profit against enemy fortifications or bases; eight 250 kg bombs are just enough to destroy a top-tier base with a single run. Just make sure to avoid any enemy jets which are eager to hunt down players who wanted to ruin their bases.

If players used up all their payloads, the remaining option is the Type 23-3 autocannon. While its technological predecessor, GSh-23L is infamous for its rather curved ballistics due to its low muzzle velocity, thanks to the Type 1492 PD radar and new HUD, the jet now enjoys ballistic computer for the gun as well and easier to land shots on enemy jets. While traditional, unassisted aiming is still viable to experienced players, be sure to compensate for the ballistics with more AoA. Most of all, the J-8F is always an interceptor; only use its sufficient manoeuvrability in dire situation or 1-vs-1 dogfights, as the delta wing design is a double-edge sword for the jet.

==== Ground Battles: The "JH-8" ====
A little fact to the J-8II series: there were competitions for the new PLAAF strike aircraft in the 1980. While XAC's JH-7 Flying Leopard (Feibao 飞豹; NATO codename Flounder) won the competition, one of the failed options was SAC's JH-8 based on J-8II (the other one was NAMC's Q-6). And in fact J-8II does have sufficient air to ground payload (albeit no guided munition for these operations); there are options to take a mix of 250 kg bombs for multiple targets or 500 kg bombs for higher chance for a knock-out. Since the J-8F could fly at more than 1,300 km/h at sea level, chances are players have to consider which type of bomb to take. The -3 series are low-drag GP bombs while the -4 are drag-chute retard bombs; due to the lack of CCRP function, players have to either fly high and dive on enemies when taking the -3 series (very risky when any enemy SPAA, especially [[Pantsir-S1]], is online) or flying at top speed at very low-altitude to avoid any radar detection; be sure to plan ahead for the assault for maximum efficiency. Alternatively, some players would still take Type 90-1 rockets to take down light vehicles or SPAA systems with the help of the ballistic computer; bringing a mix of rockets, bombs or even IR AAMs can turn J-8F into its prospected usage as a fighter-bomber and enemy vehicles will be troubled by the "JH-8".

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Rather high overall engine thrust
* Advanced avionics
** First PLAAF jet to equip domestic PD radar with sufficient detection range
** HMD for off-bore launches, especially for all-aspect IR AAM
** All-aspect KJ8602 RWR, unlike Warsaw Pact SPO-15 with limited all-aspect capabilities
* 6 powerful PL-8s with very long lock-on range and high overload
* Sufficient payload for occasional ground-attack operations
* Retained the same, if not better manoeuvrability from J-8B
* High top speed
* First-stage afterburner is surprisingly efficient, providing relatively high thrust for minimal fuel consumption

'''Cons:'''

* Lacks any form of radar-guided weaponries
* Rather large target due to its long airframe
* Relatively small ammo pool
* Delta wing design and its size bleeds speed severely in manoeuvres
* Any damage whatsoever to the tail and rear of the airframe, especially the elevators, can result in the aircraft being very difficult to control

== History ==

==== J-8C, the Ancestor ====
By 1986, there were plans to upgrade the already obsolete J-8II with completely new domestic avionics, in parallel to the Sino-American Peace Pearl (和平珍珠) program in 1984 to upgrade the jet with US/NATO avionics during the better days of Sino-American relationship. Soon after 1989's national-wide riots and the subsequent crackdown in the capital city of Beijing, although Grumman could still continue the project with SAC, due to the rise of budgets and difficulties to purchase NATO avionics after sanctions, the Peace Pearl was eventually cancelled. While the new variant, known as J-8C or J-8III was added to the schedule as Chairman Jiang Zemin (江泽民; 1927/8/17-2022/11/30) approved for the development of the 争气机 (lit. The Good-Show Jet; note: the term 争气 means to earn credits in terms of honour) at 1990/10/31 as the domestic alternatives to the Project 10 (J-10) and Su-27SK Flanker-B. There are two major features of the J-8C: Shenyang Liming WP-14 Kunlun turbojet engine and NRIET Type 1471 PD radar; although early test flights with the modified J-8II prototype airframes were like sailing on fair sea, the crash of two prototypes (one due to ATC miscommunication; one due to onboard fire) were already more than enough to give a death sentence to the project. After the successful test flights of the J-10, and an increase in the fleet of Flankers both from KnAAZ and SAC's J-11A, the project was eventually ditched by 2001. While the Kunlun bit the dust, the Type 1471 radar proved to be rather successful and set the cornerstone for future domestic radars. This was where the story J-8F begun.

==== Hotel and Foxtrot ====
By the time the J-8C was still under test flights, the other variant, the J-8D with aerial refuel capabilities took off to the skies by the end of 1991 and the plans to utilize the unused airframes started as well to further enhance to combat capabilities of J-8II. A well-known flaw of the J-8B was the rather inferior Changhong Type 208A radar that wasted many imported Aspide-1A (known as A弹 [A-missile] in PLAAF); the upgrade plans included a new PD radar for the SARH missiles and new WP-13B engines. The green lights were given in December 1999 and test flights done in the 2000s also make the new J-8H as the very first operational domestic jet with LD/SD capabilities, as well as PD (NRIET Type 1491) radar.

But before the test flights of the J-8H, the Air-to-Air Missile Research Institute (空空导弹研究院) also started the "Project 12" (12号工程) of what will be known as the PL-12 in the future; the radar needed to be able to guide PL-12 and TWS capabilities to hit 2 targets. Thus the J-8F planned for another new radar and WP-13B-II engines started its journey in 1998 and tested alongside with J-8H in 2000. Both J-8H and F featured the 149x series PD radar, black radome with lightning strip diverters, KJ8602 RWR from J-8D, as well as new pair of wing fence on the outboard of wings; the only visual difference for these two jets without any payload is a notch by the right side of the radome that indicated the installation of NRIET Type 1492 radar). Since the doctrine of PLAAF changed vastly and with the success of the PL-12, the J-8F became the final standardized version of the J-8 series and joined the PLAAF since 2002, serving as the trio of frontline fighters alongside with J-10s and Flankers. The J-8F was also the basis of the J-8FR (歼侦-8F) with recon pod replacing the autocannon (it was proposed to install WP-14 but later reverted to WP-13B-II for reliability).

As the production of new 4th generation fighters are in steady pace, all the frontline, combat-capable J-8II started to be phrased-out from the mid-2010s and the last division replaced their J-8F with undisclosed jets by June 2022, leaving the 36 J-8FR (24 for PLAAF and 12 for PLANAF) the only J-8 series aircraft still in service; thanks to its impressive climb rate and speed which are essential for recon flights.

== Media ==

''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''

== See also ==


* [[J-8B]] - J-8II Block 2 with monopulse radar and lesser missile payload

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/8271-development-j-8f-jet-fighter-and-future-plans-on-the-bvraams-en|[Devblog] J-8F jet fighter and future plans on the BVRAAMs]]

{{AirManufacturer Shenyang}}
{{China jet aircraft}}

J-8F

2023-06-21T14:57:51Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Chinese jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = the other version
| link = J-8B
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=j_8f
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (Chinese: 歼-8F型歼击机; unified NATO codename: Finback 长须鲸) was the final combat variant of the J-8 series interceptors, built by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC, 沈飞) from remaining J-8II airframes or by upgrading previous J-8Ds in the mid-2000s. The project traces back to the J-8C (or J-8III) project for domestic avionic upgrades for J-8II: although the unreliable WP-14 engine ruined the whole project, the radar systems were tested rather successfully and marked the completion of a domestic pulse-Doppler radar. By the end of the 20th century, the plans for Project 12 (PL-12) were also on schedule for domestic ARH AAM. Thus the placeholder aircraft, J-8H, with a new radar joined the PLAAF with PL-11 SARH, while the J-8F with a modified radar based on the former radar and new NATO-equivalent FCS main bus was finalised by 2005 and became a cornerstone of the PLAAF until new interceptors replaced them from June 2022.

Introduced in [[Update "La Royale"]], the J-8F is the first domestic Chinese jet with a pulse-Doppler-capable radar, featuring new powerful PL-8 AAMs and the ability to mount missiles on all wing pylons. The jet is also upgraded with new engines with higher thrust, new all- RWR systems and the J-8II's signature differential elevators for better roll rate. While it is still unable to equip PL-11 SARH missiles due to incompatible radar equipment, the new PL-8 missile and avionics will not disappoint players.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

The J-8F, like any other variant of the J-8 series, can be summarized as "Fishbed on Steroids" where the original design of J-8 series were based on simply putting 2 engines onto an enlarged MiG-21-like airframe. While the J-8F retained the signature delta wing, differential elevators and side intakes from the II series, for better flight performance, the jet is equipped with two new engines with higher thrust and additional pair of wing fence by the outboard of the wings, as well as new RWR systems for better situational awareness. The overall performance is better than its predecessor, the [[J-8B]], in most aspects. Players who have already researched the former would get on hand with the new jet fairly quickly thanks to its identical, if not better manoeuvrability for such a huge jet thanks to its antique yet advanced internal components. It still cannot outturn MiG-29 or F-14s in any cases, but the delta wings will still keep the J-8F in a reasonable turn rate while the engines can ensure prolonged (albeit not suggested) dogfights with even earlier jets that are lighter.

The probability of being hit is proportional to the plane's overall size: this is especially true since the J-8II series have been the longest jets in game (at a whopping 21.93 m, at least 2 m longer than the F-14 series). Its delta wing will bleed the speed at fast rate during high AoA manoeuvres. Be extra careful on when to enter the battlefield and scatter enemy jet formations using its high speed, then turn back to the main battlefield for opportunities to take out lonely enemies or those who are careless about the situation; they will meet a swift end if the high-performance missiles guided by HMD hit them.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max speed (km/h at _,___ m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| ___ || ___ || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| ___ || ___ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || ___ || ___ || ___ || ~__ || ~__
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < ___ || < ___ || < ___ || -
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Shenyang Liming WP-13B-II || 2
| colspan="2" | _,___ kg || colspan="2" | ___ kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | {{Annotation|Max Gross Weight|Mass of the fully equipped aircraft with heaviest weapons load}}
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! _m fuel || __m fuel || __m fuel
|-
| ___ kg || colspan="2" | ___
| _,___ kg || _,___ kg || _,___ kg || _,___ kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (___%/WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || ___%/WEP
! _m fuel || __m fuel || __m fuel || MGW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || ___ kgf || ___ kgf
| _.__ || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
|-
| ''Optimal'' || ___ kgf (_ km/h) || ___ kgf (_ km/h)
| _.__ || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

Like most jets of its era, the J-8F still retained certain degree of extra protection due to its late introduction in the early 2000s on a rather obsolete airframe. Meanwhile, some standard equipment like self-sealing tanks are still present.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs) !! Lead indicator
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Cross}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|Type 23-3 (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon, belly-mounted (200 rpg)
** 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon + 64 x large calibre countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}


The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="6%" | 1 !! width="6%" | 2 !! width="6%" | 3 !! width="6%" | 4 !! width="6%" | 5 !! width="6%" | 6 !! width="6%" | 7
| rowspan="8" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_J-8B.png]]</div>
|-
! [[250-3 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-3]] bombs
| || 1 || || 6 || || 1 ||
|-
! [[250-4 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-4]] bombs
| || 1 || || 6 || || 1 ||
|-
! [[500-3 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-3]] bombs
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! [[500-4 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-4]] bombs
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! [[Type 90-1]] rockets
| 7 || 7 || || || || 7 || 7
|-
! [[PL-5B]] missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! [[PL-8]] missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
|}

{{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}

* Without load
* 2 x PL-5B missiles
* 6 x PL-5B missiles
* 6 x PL-8 missiles
* 8 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 8 x 250 kg 250-4 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-4 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
{{Navigation-End}}

For players who are very familiar with the loadouts on the J-8B, most of the available weapons are identical on both jets, with the PL-8 (licensed Rafael Python-3) being the exception. Due to the lack of radar-guided missiles, some players might find this a huge drawback that they will have to get close enough to enemy jets to even launch IR-guided AAMs at the first place. However, the PL-8 is a game-changer for the J-8F; with not only the best all-aspect locking range among NATO equivalents, the J-8F is also equipped with HMD for off-bore launches. A full loadout of 6 x PL-8 can be a nightmare for the enemy team if utilized carefully. The old faithful PL-5B still serves as its stock missiles - although it might be somewhat obsolete at the BR, launches on careless targets can still earn some quick victories.

The ground-attack loadout is totally identical to the J-8B though, with varieties of bombs and rockets at its disposal. Although neither the calibre nor explosive content of the Type 90-1 HEAT rocket is effective for hunting enemy MBTs even with a precise hit, they can still serve as an extra card on hand alongside the -3 series low drag GP bombs or -4 series drag chute retarded bombs. The bombs will certainly be more effective against more valuable targets such as MBTs, while saving rockets for vulnerable SPAA systems and light tanks.

== Usage in battles ==

Like its predecessors, the J-8F is designed to be a high-altitude interceptor that utilize ranges of missiles, especially radar-guided missiles; but due to avionic changes on J-8F, the only missile of such type is the PL-12 which is yet to introduce in future patches. This also eliminates the option to use earlier PL-11 or Aspide-1A SARH AAM from earlier variants of J-8II (J-8B, D and H). For the time being, the only two options are both IR missiles, PL-5B and PL-8. Still, the overall manoeuvrability is still surprisingly good for such a huge jet and retained the similar flight envelope of the late MiG-21 series (MF or bis). To make the best out of the J-8F, unless in dire situation or 1-vs-1, use the J-8F as an interceptor instead of a fighter where its sheer size will be a huge plus for enemy guns to land upon the airframe, ruining the aerodynamics of the jet or being shot down right away.

==== Air Battles: The High-Speed Missile Train ====
The sheer size of the jet and its NATO codename of "Finback" could be a problem when there are enemies behind the J-8F's tail. Due to the availability of only IR AAMs, instead of being an interceptor and hunt down high-flyers, doing the opposite, i.e rushing into chaotic battlefield and taking out enemy jets is a viable option as preceded from J-8B. Although having an AN/APG-66V equivalent radar is a major plus for the jet, it's currently more a mean to search BVR targets from long range to plan ahead for a sudden attack or interfere with enemy RWRs to hide oncoming radar-guided missiles from other teammates. Instead, it has another spade on its hand: a HMD fused with the technology from Russia and Israel. Not only it now enables off-bore lock-on to enemy jets, it also has a rather long acquisition range at whopping 5 km. The old friend PL-5B and newcomer PL-8 are the only available missiles for the jet. Even at this tier, the PL-5B still retains its immersive thrust that can take out enemy jets at around 4 km away while having 30 G overload, it is especially dangerous for careless jets which have no situational awareness for the incoming missile; HMD further enhance its acquisition at rear-aspects and making the J-8F able to fire with more flexibility upon enemy targets. While the PL-8 finally enables all-aspect lock on to enemy jets for PLAAF jets, not only it has the most immersive thrust among all NATO/US-allied countries IR AAMs, it also has unprecedented overload at 40 G which is more than enough to do all-aspect launches from unexpected angles at Mach 3.5 max speed thanks to the HMD. There are even occasions where low to high launches with more than 3 km altitude differences can hit targets at 5 km away, given the target didn't manoeuvre. With all 6 pylons available for IR missiles, scoring victories will not be a problem when picking the targets carefully i.e. those not using cycle salvos for flares or those already engaged in heated battles. Another note is that the J-8II series since the J-8D comes with a KJ8602 RWR with all-aspect detection, making players easier to identify threats without having to guess the exact direction.

Alternatively, some players will make use of its high payload to make extra profit against enemy fortifications or bases; eight 250 kg bombs are just enough to destroy a top-tier base with a single run. Just make sure to avoid any enemy jets which are eager to hunt down players who wanted to ruin their bases.

If players used up all their payloads, the remaining option is the Type 23-3 autocannon. While its technological predecessor, GSh-23L is infamous for its rather curved ballistics due to its low muzzle velocity, thanks to the Type 1492 PD radar and new HUD, the jet now enjoys ballistic computer for the gun as well and easier to land shots on enemy jets. While traditional, unassisted aiming is still viable to experienced players, be sure to compensate for the ballistics with more AoA. Most of all, the J-8F is always an interceptor; only use its sufficient manoeuvrability in dire situation or 1-vs-1 dogfights, as the delta wing design is a double-edge sword for the jet.

==== Ground Battles: The "JH-8" ====
A little fact to the J-8II series: there were competitions for the new PLAAF strike aircraft in the 1980. While XAC's JH-7 Flying Leopard (Feibao 飞豹; NATO codename Flounder) won the competition, one of the failed options was SAC's JH-8 based on J-8II (the other one was NAMC's Q-6). And in fact J-8II does have sufficient air to ground payload (albeit no guided munition for these operations); there are options to take a mix of 250 kg bombs for multiple targets or 500 kg bombs for higher chance for a knock-out. Since the J-8F could fly at more than 1,300 km/h at sea level, chances are players have to consider which type of bomb to take. The -3 series are low-drag GP bombs while the -4 are drag-chute retard bombs; due to the lack of CCRP function, players have to either fly high and dive on enemies when taking the -3 series (very risky when any enemy SPAA, especially [[Pantsir-S1]], is online) or flying at top speed at very low-altitude to avoid any radar detection; be sure to plan ahead for the assault for maximum efficiency. Alternatively, some players would still take Type 90-1 rockets to take down light vehicles or SPAA systems with the help of the ballistic computer; bringing a mix of rockets, bombs or even IR AAMs can turn J-8F into its prospected usage as a fighter-bomber and enemy vehicles will be troubled by the "JH-8".

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Rather high overall engine thrust
* Advanced avionics
** First PLAAF jet to equip domestic PD radar with sufficient detection range
** HMD for off-bore launches, especially for all-aspect IR AAM
** All-aspect KJ8602 RWR, unlike Warsaw Pact SPO-15 with limited all-aspect capabilities
* 6 powerful PL-8s with very long lock-on range and high overload
* Sufficient payload for occasional ground-attack operations
* Retained the same, if not better manoeuvrability from J-8B
* High top speed
* First-stage afterburner is surprisingly efficient, providing relatively high thrust for minimal fuel consumption

'''Cons:'''

* Lacks any form of radar-guided weaponries
* Rather large target due to its long airframe
* Relatively small ammo pool
* Delta wing design and its size bleeds speed severely in manoeuvres

== History ==

==== J-8C, the Ancestor ====
By 1986, there were plans to upgrade the already obsolete J-8II with completely new domestic avionics, in parallel to the Sino-American Peace Pearl (和平珍珠) program in 1984 to upgrade the jet with US/NATO avionics during the better days of Sino-American relationship. Soon after 1989's national-wide riots and the subsequent crackdown in the capital city of Beijing, although Grumman could still continue the project with SAC, due to the rise of budgets and difficulties to purchase NATO avionics after sanctions, the Peace Pearl was eventually cancelled. While the new variant, known as J-8C or J-8III was added to the schedule as Chairman Jiang Zemin (江泽民; 1927/8/17-2022/11/30) approved for the development of the 争气机 (lit. The Good-Show Jet; note: the term 争气 means to earn credits in terms of honour) at 1990/10/31 as the domestic alternatives to the Project 10 (J-10) and Su-27SK Flanker-B. There are two major features of the J-8C: Shenyang Liming WP-14 Kunlun turbojet engine and NRIET Type 1471 PD radar; although early test flights with the modified J-8II prototype airframes were like sailing on fair sea, the crash of two prototypes (one due to ATC miscommunication; one due to onboard fire) were already more than enough to give a death sentence to the project. After the successful test flights of the J-10, and an increase in the fleet of Flankers both from KnAAZ and SAC's J-11A, the project was eventually ditched by 2001. While the Kunlun bit the dust, the Type 1471 radar proved to be rather successful and set the cornerstone for future domestic radars. This was where the story J-8F begun.

==== Hotel and Foxtrot ====
By the time the J-8C was still under test flights, the other variant, the J-8D with aerial refuel capabilities took off to the skies by the end of 1991 and the plans to utilize the unused airframes started as well to further enhance to combat capabilities of J-8II. A well-known flaw of the J-8B was the rather inferior Changhong Type 208A radar that wasted many imported Aspide-1A (known as A弹 [A-missile] in PLAAF); the upgrade plans included a new PD radar for the SARH missiles and new WP-13B engines. The green lights were given in December 1999 and test flights done in the 2000s also make the new J-8H as the very first operational domestic jet with LD/SD capabilities, as well as PD (NRIET Type 1491) radar.

But before the test flights of the J-8H, the Air-to-Air Missile Research Institute (空空导弹研究院) also started the "Project 12" (12号工程) of what will be known as the PL-12 in the future; the radar needed to be able to guide PL-12 and TWS capabilities to hit 2 targets. Thus the J-8F planned for another new radar and WP-13B-II engines started its journey in 1998 and tested alongside with J-8H in 2000. Both J-8H and F featured the 149x series PD radar, black radome with lightning strip diverters, KJ8602 RWR from J-8D, as well as new pair of wing fence on the outboard of wings; the only visual difference for these two jets without any payload is a notch by the right side of the radome that indicated the installation of NRIET Type 1492 radar). Since the doctrine of PLAAF changed vastly and with the success of the PL-12, the J-8F became the final standardized version of the J-8 series and joined the PLAAF since 2002, serving as the trio of frontline fighters alongside with J-10s and Flankers. The J-8F was also the basis of the J-8FR (歼侦-8F) with recon pod replacing the autocannon (it was proposed to install WP-14 but later reverted to WP-13B-II for reliability).

As the production of new 4th generation fighters are in steady pace, all the frontline, combat-capable J-8II started to be phrased-out from the mid-2010s and the last division replaced their J-8F with undisclosed jets by June 2022, leaving the 36 J-8FR (24 for PLAAF and 12 for PLANAF) the only J-8 series aircraft still in service; thanks to its impressive climb rate and speed which are essential for recon flights.

== Media ==

''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''

== See also ==


* [[J-8B]] - J-8II Block 2 with monopulse radar and lesser missile payload

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/8271-development-j-8f-jet-fighter-and-future-plans-on-the-bvraams-en|[Devblog] J-8F jet fighter and future plans on the BVRAAMs]]

{{AirManufacturer Shenyang}}
{{China jet aircraft}}

F-16A MLU (China)

2023-06-14T23:33:02Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = F-16 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=f_16a_block_20_mlu
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''', also known as the F-16 Block 20, was the cornerstone of the ROCAF before they were upgraded in the 2020s. The introduction of the F-16 to the ROCAF can be traced back to the late 1990s. After Dassault sold a wing of Mirage 2000-5Ei to the ROCAF to counter the menacing PLAAF with more advanced fighter jets, the US also agreed to supply some F-16s. These jets were approved while the F-16C was the standard variant of the F-16 family so, having to comply with the treaties between Mainland China and US regarding not providing US-equivalent equipment, F-16A/B Block 20s were delivered. As one of the most advanced jets of the era, F-16 Block 20s served as the cornerstone of ROCAF, both in their initial form and after being upgraded to the latest F-16V standards against the ongoing PLAAF patrols.

Introduced in [[Update "Apex Predators"]], the F-16A MLU is a hybrid version between the F-16A Block 15 MLU and the airframe of the F-16C exclusively for the ROCAF; this F-16 provides a long-awaited, reliable multirole fighter featuring a pulse-Doppler AN/APG-66 radar as well as sporting some of the latest AAMs in-game. For players who need both interception and ground-attacking capabilities, the Mavericks and LDGP bombs onboard will also make light work of any ground targets.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

Instead of [[F-16A|Block 10]] or [[F-16A ADF|Block 15 ADF]], in ROCAF's case, their F-16A MLU (Block 20) has major differences in terms of thrust and appearance: to tell a Block 20 and others apart, there are two parts to differentiate- IFF antenna and the tail; while Block 10 has no antenna and ADF has the "bird-slicer" antenna, MLU received AN/APX-113 IFF with a rounded antenna. The tail in this case also received a drogue chute for highway strip operations. Other than that, the MLU performs mostly identically to its counterparts with slightly less military thrust. The F-16s are known to be one of the most manoeuvrable jets with their impressive engine thrust and design features for dogfights. In most cases, jets that are an era behind the F-16 will very likely having a hard time biting onto the tail of F-16, since their relatively light weight does help in dogfights and acceleration. The F-16 is also the first mass-produced fighter to use FBW (Fly-by-wire) and in this case, instead of the physical limits of the airframe itself, it also has software limits at 9G continuous overload, so players will have to take extra caution on the speed of the jet: any high speed turns over 750 km/h will very likely trigger this limits.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max speed (km/h at 10,973 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,093 || 2,063 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 20.3 || 20.6 || 252.7 || 240.3 || rowspan="2" | 850
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,198 || 2,146 || 19.3 || 19.8 || 340.7 || 295.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,555  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 470 || 463 || ~__ || ~__
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < ___ || < ___ || < ___ || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 || 1
| colspan="2" | 7,990 kg || colspan="2" | ___ kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | {{Annotation|Max Gross Weight|Mass of the fully equipped aircraft with heaviest weapons load}}
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel
|-
| 1,470 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning low-bypass turbofan
| 8,962 kg || 10,213 kg || 11,230 kg || 16,048 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel || MGW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 6,490 kgf || 8,985 kgf
| 1.00 || 0.88 || 0.80 || 0.56
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 7,434 kgf (1,555 km/h) || 15,225 kgf (1,400 km/h)
| 1.70 || 1.49 || 1.36 || 0.95
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

Other than the airframe and alloy skins, the F-16 MLU has no extra protection for pilot or critical equipment. While the jet has equipment like self-sealing fuel tanks and EFS for the engine, if the engine does suffer from a fire, due to only having a single engine, it will still have lesser chance to make it back to the airfield.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|M61A1 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon, wing root-mounted (512 rpg)
** 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 90 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|LDGP Mk 84 (2,000 lb)|AGM-65B}}
{{main|AIM-7M Sparrow|AIM-9L Sidewinder|AIM-9P Sidewinder}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* 1 x 300 gal drop tank
* 2 x AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles
* 6 x AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles
* 6 x AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles
* 2 x AIM-7M Sparrow missiles
* 12 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (6,000 lb total)
* 4 x 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs (8,000 lb total)
* 6 x AGM-65B missiles

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="5%" | 1 !! width="5%" | 2 !! width="5%" | 3 !! width="5%" | 4 !! width="5%" | 5 !! width="5%" | 6 !! width="5%" | 7 !! width="5%" | 8 !! width="5%" | 9
| rowspan="8" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_F-16A.png]]</div>
|-
! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
| || || 3 || 3 || || 3 || 3 || ||
|-
! 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs
| || || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || ||
|-
! AGM-65B missiles
| || || 1, 3 || || || || 1, 3 || ||
|-
! AIM-7M Sparrow missiles
| || || 1 || || || || 1 || ||
|-
! AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || || || || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || || || || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! 300 gal drop tanks
| || || || || 1 || || || ||
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

Thanks to its late introduction in 1998, the F-16A MLU has the strengths from both the baseline A series and ADF, where players could utilize the jet both for intensive air-defense operations and makeshift ground attacker.

'''Air: The Falcon'''

For players who were frustrated from the inferior radar performance of [[J-8B]] or [[J-7E]], the F-16A MLU brings new AN/APG-66 radar to the table. This also marks the introduction of the long awaited PD-capable radar and all-aspect IR AAMs for the Chinese tech tree. The later blocks of F-16A were upgraded with access with radar-guided missiles while the baseline models already has at most 6 IR AAMs for disposal; in terms of air-to-air operations, the jet itself performs exactly like ADFs with very similar engine thrust (albeit slightly lower in military thrust). But one major factor for the overall capability of F-16 is the limited FBW overload at only 9G, most jets in game can pull up to 13G at extreme occasions for snap-shots to enemy jets; MLU has to beware of such overload limits especially at high speeds, the jet itself is known for its excellent manoeuvrability at lower airspeed, most jets at its tier especially heavier jets such as [[F-14A Early|F-14A]] and [[MiG-23MLD]] will have some hard time handling F-16A. In terms of AAMs, as mentioned there are at most 6 of them in either full-IR AAM or 4 IR AAMs+ 2 SARH AAMs loadouts. If players want to gain situational awareness to enemy jets, the AN/APG-66 won't disappoint players with its long detection range and being a pulse-Doppler radar, jets even at lower altitude will be visible to the radar. Make sure to check the radar and RWR in regular basis for best efficiency, bringing AIM-7M for high-altitude targets at front aspect is always a good option for extra XP or at least forcing these targets to lower altitude; while full IR AAM loadout can make sure MLU has the chance to take down careless targets given the missile tracks onto the jet itself instead of their flares (both AIM-9P and 9L are susceptible to flares).

While bringing some bombs for extra XP and credit is viable, only make sure to use them when the skies is mostly cleared out; if any enemies come into play, it's better jettison the bomb pylons for good, more bombs or payloads means lesser chance to win a dogfight.

'''Ground: Jack-of-all-trades'''

The introduction of the F-16A MLU means the Chinese tech tree finally has the upper-hand in terms of being a support fighter. While the F-16A has no radar-guided missiles at all and the F-16A ADF trades all its ground-attacking ordnance for better interception capability, the MLU has access to both types of weapons. If players found previous top-tier jets of PLAAF/ROCAF are less capable for either interception or ground attack missions, or if the SPAAs are less than desirable, this will be a great alternative to all these aforementioned flawed vehicles; while there are up to 12 bombs at disposal, for overall safety of the jet itself, options for 6 AGM-65Bs are also available as well where these missiles are still effective on taking out ground vehicles via its TV search camera. Using the custom loadouts can also means it can takes six 500 lbs, six AGM-65Bs for ground-attacking while leaving the 2 pairs of outer-board pylons for IR AAMs; after taking out high-value ground targets from altitude using the aforementioned air-to-ground ordnance, this leaves its capability to also send enemy attackers or rotorcraft straight back to their hanger, 4 x AIM-9L also can make sure careless attackers will have lesser chance to evade the missiles when they are too concentrated on ground-attacking, while the AIM-7M can be used to take out high-altitude targets or force them to quit attacking for their own survival. Do also beware either missiles SPAAs or enemy missiles from aircraft though, leave the battlefield if the tides have turned to get the best of the jet.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Equipped with both SARH missiles and air-to-ground weapons, unlike most counterparts in different nations
* Radar has TWS compared to other F-16 variants
* Impressive payload for interception missions with up to 6 x AAMs
* Impressive manoeuvrability at around 700 km/h, useful when there's the need for a dogfight
* Equipped with a drogue chute for shorter landing distance

'''Cons:'''

* Suffers from the FBW overload limits of 9G
* Rather small 20 mm ammunition count
* Engine consumes jet fuels at high rate when afterburning, will run out of fuel relatively quickly without drop tanks
* Lacks IRST sensor for target acquisition
* Not equipped with guided bombs for safer ground attacking approach

== History ==

In the 1980s, plans were made for the ROCAF to buy F-16/79s (equipped with J79 engine and worse radar than the F-16A) and F-20 Tigersharks, but failed due to the improving Sino-US relationship as well as limitations of the 1979 Communique. In the 1990s, after the PLAAF purchased numbers of Su-27SK Flanker-B and the increase in new domestic PLAAF jets, ROCAF considered the expansion of the PLAAF to be a major threat as the ROCAF fleet still consisted of masses of obsolete F-104 and F-5E, as well as very few F-CK-1 Indigenous Defense Fighter (IDF; aka Ching-Kuo 經國號) and Mirage 2000-5E/F series. In 1989, after the sale of Mirage 2000s to ROCAF, George HW Bush, who was at the time going for presidency, agreed to the sale of 150 F-16A/B alongside weaponry and maintenance equipment to the ROCAF during his election campaign and the sale was dubbed "Peace Pheasant" (和平鳳凰).

By the time this sale was approved, General Dynamics had already started the production run for the new F-16C/D series. To reduce the overhead for reopening production lines of previous models, ROCAF and GD agreed on a hybrid version - the Block 20 with F-16 Mid-Life Upgrade (MLU) electronics, F100-PW-220 engine, and airframe and parts of both A and C variants to be delivered to the ROCAF. The new jet rolled off the line in July 1996, which happened to be the heat of 2nd Taiwan Strait Crisis and they were delivered to ROCAF a year later to the 455th FW at Chiayi Airbase (嘉義水上基地), then 401st FW at Hualien Airbase (花蓮基地) in 2002 for a total of 150 jets delivered (120 F-16A and 30 F-16B variants). The new jets solved the major problem of the replacement of F-104 series and strengthened ROCAF's self-defense capability. While the BVR capability was hindered by the AIM-7M Sparrows delivered alongside with the jet, during the first decade of 21st Century, the US also approved the sales of AIM-120C-5/7, AGM-65G Mavericks, and AGM-84L Harpoons for delivery in 2002 and 2007.

While the combat capability of the new 4th generation jets surpassed PLAAF in early 2000s, as the estimate of the number of 4th gens in the PLAAF had increased significantly by late 2010s, ROCAF also agreed on purchasing upgrades from Lockheed Martin (the current manufacturer of F-16) where they would receive new electronics, radar-absorbing paints, and better ECM capabilities against PLAAF aircraft. These upgrades listed on the 2011 and 2018 military sales would become what's known as the F-16V (Viper; listed as AM and BM respectively in ROCAF; dubbed Project Phoenix Soar 鳳展計劃). After the systems were finalized in the late 2010s in the US, the current fleets of F-16s would fly to Taichung Ching-Chung Kang Airbase (台中清泉崗基地) for upgrades by AIDC (漢翔航空工業), with the first of them upgraded in September 2019 while receiving an additional 66 F-16C Block 70s and AGM-158s from US to "balance" the airpower across the Taiwan Strait.

The upgraded F-16AM/BMs (sometimes dubbed a ''Yellow-Skin Snake 黃皮蛇'' by enthusiasts from the anti-corrosion paint during upgrade) now serve as the cornerstone of the ROCAF and perform intensive CAP missions against the intensified ongoing patrol missions from PLAAF aircraft, alongside with F-CK-1s and Mirages.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=f_16a_block_20_mlu Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[F-16 (Family)]]

== External links ==

''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''

* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''other literature.''

{{AirManufacturer General Dynamics}}
{{China jet aircraft}}

Kurnass 2000

2023-06-14T22:18:55Z

U91119932: /* Description */

{{About
| about = Israeli jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = the other version
| link = Kurnass
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=f-4e_kurnass_2000
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Israeli jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Sky Guardians"]].

The Kurnass 2000 is an Israeli upgrade of the venerable F-4E Phantom II. It looks and flies almost identically to the original 1970s variant, however it's Air-to-air armament is now drastically improved and rounded out by the all-aspect AIM-9L Sidewinder and Python III for closer engagements. Fans of precision ground striking will enjoy the new laser-guided Paveway bombs and AGM-65D Mavericks with IR seekers. The Kurnass 2000 is a multirole aircraft with impressive systems and weapons, only held back by the performance of its old airframe compared to 4th generation opponents like the [[MiG-29]] and [[F-16A]].

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max speed (km/h at 12,192 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,065 || 2,039 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 26.5 || 27.5 || 160.6 || 150.9 || rowspan="2" | 850
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,202 || 2,140 || 25.5 || 26.0 || 221.6 || 190.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || 1,458 || 625 || 463 || ~11 || ~4
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 810 || < 750 || < 700 || -
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | General Electric J79-GE-17 || 2
| colspan="2" | 14,205 kg || colspan="2" | 408 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | {{Annotation|Max Gross Weight|Mass of the fully equipped aircraft with heaviest weapons load}}
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 9m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel
|-
| 1,750 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 15,964 kg || 18,027 kg || 20,070 kg || 27,501 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 9m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || MGW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 5,200 kgf || 8,008 kgf
| 1.00 || 0.89 || 0.80 || 0.58
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 5,260 kgf (1,458 km/h) || 10,170 kgf (1,400 km/h)
| 1.27 || 1.13 || 1.01 || 0.74
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

''Examine the survivability of the aircraft. Note how vulnerable the structure is and how secure the pilot is, whether the fuel tanks are armoured, etc. Describe the armour, if there is any, and also mention the vulnerability of other critical aircraft systems.''

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs) !! Lead indicator
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|M61A1 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon, chin-mounted (640 rpg)
** 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 90 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|LDGP Mk 81 (250 lb)|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|LDGP Mk 83 (1,000 lb)|LDGP Mk 84 (2,000 lb)}}
{{main|GBU-12 Paveway II (277 kg)|GBU-10 Paveway II (957 kg)|AGM-65D}}
{{main|AIM-7E-2 Sparrow|AIM-7F Sparrow|AIM-9G Sidewinder|AIM-9L Sidewinder}}
{{main|BLU-27/B incendiary|FFAR Mighty Mouse|Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP|GAU-4 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
* 6 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
* 6 x AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles
* 3 x 20 mm GAU-4 cannons (1,200 rpg = 3,600 total)
* 24 x 250 lb LDGP Mk 81 bombs (6,000 lb total)
* 24 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (12,000 lb total)
* 17 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (12,750 lb total)
* 4 x BLU-27/B incendiary bombs
* 13 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (13,000 lb total)
* 3 x 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs (6,000 lb total)
* 285 x FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
* 60 x Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
* 4 x AIM-7E-2 Sparrow missiles
* 4 x AIM-7F Sparrow missiles
* 144 x countermeasures
* 6 x AGM-65D missiles
* 4 x 277 kg GBU-12 Paveway II bombs (1,108 kg total)
* 4 x 957 kg GBU-10 Paveway II bombs (3,828 kg total)

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="4%" | 1 !! width="4%" | 2 !! width="4%" | 3 !! width="4%" | 4 !! width="4%" | 5 !! width="4%" | 6 !! width="4%" | 7 !! width="4%" | 8 !! width="4%" | 9 !! width="4%" | 10 !! width="4%" | 11
| rowspan="20" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_F-4C_Phantom_II.png]]</div>
|-
! 20 mm GAU-4 cannons (1,200 rpg)
| 1 || || || || || 1 || || || || || 1
|-
! 250 lb LDGP Mk 81 bombs
| 6 || 3 || || || || 6 || || || || 3 || 6
|-
! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
| 6 || 3 || || || || 6 || || || || 3 || 6
|-
! 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs
| 3 || 3 || || || || 5 || || || || 3 || 3
|-
! 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs
| 2 || 3 || || || || 3 || || || || 3 || 2
|-
! 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs
| 1 || || || || || 1 || || || || || 1
|-
! BLU-27/B incendiary bombs
| 1 || || || || || 2 || || || || || 1
|-
! 277 kg GBU-12 Paveway II bombs
| || 2*† || || || || || || || || 2*† ||
|-
! 957 kg GBU-10 Paveway II bombs
| 1*† || 1*† || || || || || || || || 1*† || 1*†
|-
! FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
| 57 || 57 || || || || 57 || || || || 57 || 57
|-
! Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
| 12 || 12 || || || || 12 || || || || 12 || 12
|-
! AGM-65D missiles
| || 3† || || || || || || || || 3† ||
|-
! AIM-7E-2 Sparrow missiles
| || || || 1‡ || 1 || || 1 || 1‡ || || ||
|-
! AIM-7F Sparrow missiles
| || || || 1‡ || 1 || || 1 || 1‡ || || ||
|-
! AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
| || || 2† || || 1‡ || || 1‡ || || 2† || ||
|-
! AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles
| || || 2† || || 1‡ || || 1‡ || || 2† || ||
|-
! Countermeasures
| || || || 72 || || || || 72 || || ||
|-
! Pave Spike targeting pod
| || || || || || || 1* || || || ||
|-
| colspan="12" | Maximum permissible loadout weight: 7,257 kg Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 1,500 kg
|-
| colspan="13" | * Pave Spike targeting pod must be equipped when carrying guided bombs † AGM-65D missiles on hardpoints 2/10 cannot be equipped in conjunction with guided bombs, or Sidewinders on hardpoints 3/9 respectively ‡ Sparrows on hardpoints 4/8 cannot be carried in conjunction with Sidewinders on hardpoints 5/7 respectively
|}

== Usage in battles ==


'''Air RB:'''

In Air RB, the Kurnass 2000 could be compared to the [[F-4EJ Kai Phantom II|F-4EJ Kai]], having the same air-to-air missile armament and similar radar. To properly utilize the 8 potent missiles and one of the best radars in game is the major task that every Kurnass 2000 pilot will have to face. Typically, enter the battle at a low altitude and shooting down everyone on your way is a viable and effective way to fly the Kurnass 2000. Climbing could also be attempted, but given the presence of AIM-54s and 4th generation fighter jets featuring the same avionics and significantly higher climb rate, it would be a riskier style to fly the Kurnass 2000.

A major difference between the Kurnass 2000 and the F-4EJ Kai is the slats on the Kurnass' wings. At high speed, extension of the slats provides more lift and limits the angle of attack of the aircraft, resulting in a significant decrease in speed loss during turns to a level even comparable to the level of 4th generation aircraft like the F-16 and MiG-29. At lower speed, the slats also increase the overall manoeuvrability of the aircraft, so it is advised to extend the slats in battles (by toggling "combat flaps"), especially when fighting in groups, retracting them when needed to gain more speed or for higher angle of attack. Overall, the slats of the Kurnass provides pilots with the ability to alter the aerodynamics of the aircraft during combat, and provide more versatility and a higher overall performance compared to the F-4EJ Kai.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* One of the most effective air-to-air armament sets in-game with AN/APG-76, Python IIIs and Aim-9Ls
* Wing slats for increased manoeuvrability and versatility
* High level of manoeuvrability at high speed as with any other Phantoms
* Guided bombs and missile with targeting pod for engaging ground targets

'''Cons:'''

* Big and heavy aircraft
* Thrust to weight ratio less than 4th generation jets

== History ==
[[File:McDonnell Douglas F-4E Kurnass 2000 ErezS.jpg|alt=F-4E Kurnass 2000 of the IAF, on Ground display in Tel Nof air base during the 66th Independence day of Israel.|thumb|F-4E Kurnass 2000 of the IAF, on Ground display in Tel Nof air base during the 66th Independence day of Israel.]]
The Kurnass 2000 was an Israeli program intended to extend the service life of the existing F-4s in the IDF Air Force. A major part of the program was to improve the avionics and the aging airframes. New displays, cameras, and computers were implemented during the program, greatly enhancing its capabilities over a standard F-4E. In addition, fuel tank leaks were fixed and parts of the airframe were reinforced. F-4Es were also to be upgraded with the APG-76 radar over the standard APQ-120 radar. The Kurnass 2000 also received the ASX-1 TISEO targeting system which allowed Raphael Popeye ASMs to be launched.

The Kurnass 2000 was also intended to receive an engine upgrade. Pratt & Whitney PW1120 engines were proposed by the IDF/AF to be fitted to the F-4s and a test bed was built to examine the performance. The test bed was originally meant for the IAI Lavi project, but it also proved the enormous performance increase over Phantoms with the J79 engines. The P&W-powered F-4 was able to pass Mach 1 without afterburner, increase climb rate by over 35 percent, and had a 15% increase in sustained turn rate. Although ambitious, the upgraded F-4Es never received this engine upgrade largely due to costs. Thus, the main differences between the Kurnass 2000 modernized Phantoms and the regular F-4E were almost exclusively avionics and some airframe changes.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=f-4e_kurnass_2000 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|U8PuopV6XyY|'''The Shooting Range #348''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:24 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|We702awM1kA|'''Kurnass 2000: A Basic Review''' - ''Tims Variety''}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)]]

== External links ==

''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''

* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''other literature.''

{{Israel jet aircraft}}

Kurnass 2000

2023-06-14T22:17:05Z

U91119932: /* Description */

{{About
| about = Israeli jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = the other version
| link = Kurnass
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=f-4e_kurnass_2000
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Israeli jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Sky Guardians"]].

The Kurnass 2000 is an Israeli upgrade of the venerable F-4E Phantom II. It looks and flies almost identically to the original 1970s variant, but inside the nose is an advanced AN/APG-76 pulse Doppler radar that drastically improves its ability to engage in BVR combat using Sparrow missiles, now available in the long-range AIM-7F variant. Air-to-air armament is rounded out by the all-aspect AIM-9L Sidewinder and Python III for closer engagements and fans of precision ground striking will enjoy the new laser-guided Paveway bombs and AGM-65D Mavericks with IR seekers. The Kurnass 2000 is a multirole aircraft with impressive systems and weapons, only held back by the performance of its old airframe compared to 4th generation opponents like the [[MiG-29]] and [[F-16A]].

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max speed (km/h at 12,192 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,065 || 2,039 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 26.5 || 27.5 || 160.6 || 150.9 || rowspan="2" | 850
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,202 || 2,140 || 25.5 || 26.0 || 221.6 || 190.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || 1,458 || 625 || 463 || ~11 || ~4
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 810 || < 750 || < 700 || -
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | General Electric J79-GE-17 || 2
| colspan="2" | 14,205 kg || colspan="2" | 408 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | {{Annotation|Max Gross Weight|Mass of the fully equipped aircraft with heaviest weapons load}}
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 9m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel
|-
| 1,750 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 15,964 kg || 18,027 kg || 20,070 kg || 27,501 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 9m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || MGW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 5,200 kgf || 8,008 kgf
| 1.00 || 0.89 || 0.80 || 0.58
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 5,260 kgf (1,458 km/h) || 10,170 kgf (1,400 km/h)
| 1.27 || 1.13 || 1.01 || 0.74
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

''Examine the survivability of the aircraft. Note how vulnerable the structure is and how secure the pilot is, whether the fuel tanks are armoured, etc. Describe the armour, if there is any, and also mention the vulnerability of other critical aircraft systems.''

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs) !! Lead indicator
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|M61A1 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon, chin-mounted (640 rpg)
** 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 90 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|LDGP Mk 81 (250 lb)|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|LDGP Mk 83 (1,000 lb)|LDGP Mk 84 (2,000 lb)}}
{{main|GBU-12 Paveway II (277 kg)|GBU-10 Paveway II (957 kg)|AGM-65D}}
{{main|AIM-7E-2 Sparrow|AIM-7F Sparrow|AIM-9G Sidewinder|AIM-9L Sidewinder}}
{{main|BLU-27/B incendiary|FFAR Mighty Mouse|Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP|GAU-4 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
* 6 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
* 6 x AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles
* 3 x 20 mm GAU-4 cannons (1,200 rpg = 3,600 total)
* 24 x 250 lb LDGP Mk 81 bombs (6,000 lb total)
* 24 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (12,000 lb total)
* 17 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (12,750 lb total)
* 4 x BLU-27/B incendiary bombs
* 13 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (13,000 lb total)
* 3 x 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs (6,000 lb total)
* 285 x FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
* 60 x Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
* 4 x AIM-7E-2 Sparrow missiles
* 4 x AIM-7F Sparrow missiles
* 144 x countermeasures
* 6 x AGM-65D missiles
* 4 x 277 kg GBU-12 Paveway II bombs (1,108 kg total)
* 4 x 957 kg GBU-10 Paveway II bombs (3,828 kg total)

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="4%" | 1 !! width="4%" | 2 !! width="4%" | 3 !! width="4%" | 4 !! width="4%" | 5 !! width="4%" | 6 !! width="4%" | 7 !! width="4%" | 8 !! width="4%" | 9 !! width="4%" | 10 !! width="4%" | 11
| rowspan="20" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_F-4C_Phantom_II.png]]</div>
|-
! 20 mm GAU-4 cannons (1,200 rpg)
| 1 || || || || || 1 || || || || || 1
|-
! 250 lb LDGP Mk 81 bombs
| 6 || 3 || || || || 6 || || || || 3 || 6
|-
! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
| 6 || 3 || || || || 6 || || || || 3 || 6
|-
! 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs
| 3 || 3 || || || || 5 || || || || 3 || 3
|-
! 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs
| 2 || 3 || || || || 3 || || || || 3 || 2
|-
! 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs
| 1 || || || || || 1 || || || || || 1
|-
! BLU-27/B incendiary bombs
| 1 || || || || || 2 || || || || || 1
|-
! 277 kg GBU-12 Paveway II bombs
| || 2*† || || || || || || || || 2*† ||
|-
! 957 kg GBU-10 Paveway II bombs
| 1*† || 1*† || || || || || || || || 1*† || 1*†
|-
! FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
| 57 || 57 || || || || 57 || || || || 57 || 57
|-
! Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
| 12 || 12 || || || || 12 || || || || 12 || 12
|-
! AGM-65D missiles
| || 3† || || || || || || || || 3† ||
|-
! AIM-7E-2 Sparrow missiles
| || || || 1‡ || 1 || || 1 || 1‡ || || ||
|-
! AIM-7F Sparrow missiles
| || || || 1‡ || 1 || || 1 || 1‡ || || ||
|-
! AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
| || || 2† || || 1‡ || || 1‡ || || 2† || ||
|-
! AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles
| || || 2† || || 1‡ || || 1‡ || || 2† || ||
|-
! Countermeasures
| || || || 72 || || || || 72 || || ||
|-
! Pave Spike targeting pod
| || || || || || || 1* || || || ||
|-
| colspan="12" | Maximum permissible loadout weight: 7,257 kg Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 1,500 kg
|-
| colspan="13" | * Pave Spike targeting pod must be equipped when carrying guided bombs † AGM-65D missiles on hardpoints 2/10 cannot be equipped in conjunction with guided bombs, or Sidewinders on hardpoints 3/9 respectively ‡ Sparrows on hardpoints 4/8 cannot be carried in conjunction with Sidewinders on hardpoints 5/7 respectively
|}

== Usage in battles ==


'''Air RB:'''

In Air RB, the Kurnass 2000 could be compared to the [[F-4EJ Kai Phantom II|F-4EJ Kai]], having the same air-to-air missile armament and similar radar. To properly utilize the 8 potent missiles and one of the best radars in game is the major task that every Kurnass 2000 pilot will have to face. Typically, enter the battle at a low altitude and shooting down everyone on your way is a viable and effective way to fly the Kurnass 2000. Climbing could also be attempted, but given the presence of AIM-54s and 4th generation fighter jets featuring the same avionics and significantly higher climb rate, it would be a riskier style to fly the Kurnass 2000.

A major difference between the Kurnass 2000 and the F-4EJ Kai is the slats on the Kurnass' wings. At high speed, extension of the slats provides more lift and limits the angle of attack of the aircraft, resulting in a significant decrease in speed loss during turns to a level even comparable to the level of 4th generation aircraft like the F-16 and MiG-29. At lower speed, the slats also increase the overall manoeuvrability of the aircraft, so it is advised to extend the slats in battles (by toggling "combat flaps"), especially when fighting in groups, retracting them when needed to gain more speed or for higher angle of attack. Overall, the slats of the Kurnass provides pilots with the ability to alter the aerodynamics of the aircraft during combat, and provide more versatility and a higher overall performance compared to the F-4EJ Kai.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* One of the most effective air-to-air armament sets in-game with AN/APG-76, AIM-7Fs, and AIM-9Ls
* Wing slats for increased manoeuvrability and versatility
* High level of manoeuvrability at high speed as with any other Phantoms
* Guided bombs and missile with targeting pod for engaging ground targets

'''Cons:'''

* Big and heavy aircraft
* Thrust to weight ratio less than 4th generation jets

== History ==
[[File:McDonnell Douglas F-4E Kurnass 2000 ErezS.jpg|alt=F-4E Kurnass 2000 of the IAF, on Ground display in Tel Nof air base during the 66th Independence day of Israel.|thumb|F-4E Kurnass 2000 of the IAF, on Ground display in Tel Nof air base during the 66th Independence day of Israel.]]
The Kurnass 2000 was an Israeli program intended to extend the service life of the existing F-4s in the IDF Air Force. A major part of the program was to improve the avionics and the aging airframes. New displays, cameras, and computers were implemented during the program, greatly enhancing its capabilities over a standard F-4E. In addition, fuel tank leaks were fixed and parts of the airframe were reinforced. F-4Es were also to be upgraded with the APG-76 radar over the standard APQ-120 radar. The Kurnass 2000 also received the ASX-1 TISEO targeting system which allowed Raphael Popeye ASMs to be launched.

The Kurnass 2000 was also intended to receive an engine upgrade. Pratt & Whitney PW1120 engines were proposed by the IDF/AF to be fitted to the F-4s and a test bed was built to examine the performance. The test bed was originally meant for the IAI Lavi project, but it also proved the enormous performance increase over Phantoms with the J79 engines. The P&W-powered F-4 was able to pass Mach 1 without afterburner, increase climb rate by over 35 percent, and had a 15% increase in sustained turn rate. Although ambitious, the upgraded F-4Es never received this engine upgrade largely due to costs. Thus, the main differences between the Kurnass 2000 modernized Phantoms and the regular F-4E were almost exclusively avionics and some airframe changes.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=f-4e_kurnass_2000 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|U8PuopV6XyY|'''The Shooting Range #348''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:24 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|We702awM1kA|'''Kurnass 2000: A Basic Review''' - ''Tims Variety''}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)]]

== External links ==

''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''

* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''other literature.''

{{Israel jet aircraft}}

Kfir C.7

2023-06-14T22:16:39Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Israeli jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Mirage 5 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=kfir_c7
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Israeli jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Winged Lions"]].

The IAI Kfir is a Israeli development of the [[Nesher]], itself a variant of the French [[Mirage 5 (Family)|Mirage 5]]. The delta-winged Mirages are known for their low wing loading and sleek aerodynamics, but their engines tend to be underwhelming. The Kfir rectifies this with an American J79 engine as seen on the [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|F-4 Phantom]] and [[F-104 (Family)|F-104 Starfighter]], which offers vastly more thrust, and fixed canard foreplanes mounted on the air intakes to compensate for the weight changes. The end result is an aircraft with incredible acceleration and high agility, a dangerous opponent in dogfights.

The Kfir's weapons leave something to be desired, reflecting its real-life usage as a basic fighter-bomber. It can carry an impressive payload of bombs and rockets but lacks radar-guided missiles for BVR combat. Its best dogfight missile is the [[AIM-9G Sidewinder]], which is less manoeuvrable than the contemporary [[R-60]] and [[R.550|Matra Magic]] for example. It also does not have guided air-to-ground weapons used by the [[F-4E Phantom II (Israel)|Israeli F-4E]]. Thus, the Kfir requires a skilled pilot to take advantage of its excellent performance to win engagements.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

The Kfir C.7 has an impressive acceleration, even higher than the [[MiG-23MLD]]'s. The plane can also turn quite well, but it is not recommended to turn while in combat as the delta wing configuration will bleed a lot of speed and a slow jet is an easy target. However, you can take the risk to bleed speed in some situations since you regain that speed rather quickly.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 10,668 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,322 || 2,272 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 28.3 || 29.0 || 183.9 || 172.1 || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,457 || 2,388 || 26.0 || 27.0 || 268.9 || 224.6
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || X || X || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,460  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || N/A || N/A || ~11 || ~4
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 920 || < 750 || < 1,460 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | General Electric J79-GE-J1E || 1
| colspan="2" | 7,385 kg || colspan="2" | ___ kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel
|-
| 1,750 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 8,140 kg || 9,187 kg || 9,903 kg || 16,500 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 5,260 kgf || 8,837 kgf
| 1.09 || 0.96 || 0.89 || 0.54
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 5,428 kgf (1,460 km/h) || 11,898 kgf (1,400 km/h)
| 1.46 || 1.30 || 1.20 || 0.72
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

The Kfir lacks any armour surrounding the pilots, making HE hits (missiles and cannons) able to penetrate and hit the pilot with ease.

Survivability of the Kfir is far greater than any of its contemporaries even though it lacks armour. The Kfir can sustain black fuselage damage, and ripped wings can have more than enough control authority to return back home and repair.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|DEFA 552A (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 2 x 30 mm DEFA 552A cannons, belly-mounted (140 rpg = 280 total)
** 2 x 30 mm DEFA 552A cannons + 36 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|LDGP Mk 83 (1,000 lb)|LDGP Mk 84 (2,000 lb)}}
{{main|AIM-9D Sidewinder|AIM-9G Sidewinder|Shafrir 2}}
{{main|FFAR Mighty Mouse|Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP|GAU-4 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x AIM-9D Sidewinder missiles
* 2 x Shafrir 2 missiles
* 4 x Shafrir 2 missiles
* 4 x AIM-9D Sidewinder missiles
* 4 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
* 13 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (6,500 lb total)
* 8 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (8,000 lb total)
* 4 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs + 11 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (9,500 lb total)
* 8 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (6,000 lb total)
* 2 x 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs (4,000 lb total)
* 2 x 20 mm GAU-4 cannons (1,200 rpg = 2,400 total)
* 16 x Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
* 76 x FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="6%" | 1 !! width="6%" | 2 !! width="6%" | 3 !! width="6%" | 4 !! width="6%" | 5 !! width="6%" | 6 !! width="6%" | 7
| rowspan="12" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_Kfir_C.2.png]]</div>
|-
! 20 mm GAU-4 cannons (1,200 rpg)
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
| || 2, 3 || 2 || 5 || 2 || 2, 3 ||
|-
! 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs
| || 2 || 2 || || 2 || 2 ||
|-
! 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs
| || 2 || 2 || || 2 || 2 ||
|-
! 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
| || 38 || || || || 38 ||
|-
! Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
| || 8 || || || || 8 ||
|-
! AIM-9D Sidewinder missiles
| 1 || 1 || || || || 1 || 1
|-
! AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
| 1 || 1 || || || || 1 || 1
|-
! Shafrir 2 missiles
| 1 || 1 || || || || 1 || 1
|-
| colspan="8" | Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 1,500 kg
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==


;RB:

The Kfir C.7 is one of the fastest accelerating and best climbing planes in the game, its performance at >1,234 km/h and high altitude is particularly exceptional, on top of being highly manoeuvrable, though the plane will compress when going above Mach 1. This does help the Kfir maintain energy, but once it falls out of that compressed state it will pull, and pull hard. With the speed and acceleration advantage the Kfir offers, it suffers from its own success as the wings will rip at 1,460 km/h which can easily be exceeded with the Kfir if speed isn't being kept in check.

The Kfir suffers from the same issue as other delta wing designs such as the [[J35 (Family)]] and [[MiG-21 (Family)]], and [[Mirage 5 (Family)|Mirage (Family)]] (which it's derived from), in that it bleeds quite a bit of speed while performing manoeuvres, and therefore sustained dogfights are not recommended in the Kfir. It will perform exceptionally well for the first few turns, so attempt to shoot down the target within that window. If unable to dispatch the enemy and the fight is being prolonged, then it's recommended to use the Kfir's exceptional acceleration and top speed to egress from the situation, and perhaps re-enter when the situation is more favourable to the Kfir.

One way of playing the Kfir C.7 is to fly around the center of the map and launch missiles at distracted enemies from behind. This will require you to stay low after takeoff and fly near the edge of the map to avoid being seen or being detected by enemy radar. Once the furball has formed, climb above the enemy, then look for enemies that are slow, distracted, un-aware of their surroundings then launch an AIM-9G missile at 3 km or closer. The main challenge to this play style is to find distracted enemy and be unnoticed when launching your missile.

Another way of playing the Kfir C.7 is to accelerate past Mach after takeoff, and then proceed to zoom up to high altitude at roughly 6-8 km where missiles are capable of flying much further, where the Kfir can truly stretch its exceptional speed and performance. Its primary weapon, the [[AIM-9G Sidewinder]], will have an exceptional range at these altitudes and it is not uncommon to achieve kills at ranges over 5-6 km. Be mindful that the radar will slave the seeker head of the [[AIM-9G Sidewinder]], and can be used to help achieve locks even if the plane is not directly off the nose of the aircraft. However, this play style is not recommended unless down tiered due to SARH and ARH missiles being very common at battle rating 11.3 and higher

;SB:

The Kfir is a phenomenal support fighter.

Due to its lack of radar and low countermeasure count at EC7 you do not want to spear head any fight. Your best way to play the plane is to stay 1-2 grid squares away from the main battle and wait for people call out enemies or for you to spot dog fights.

The Kfir's top speed will grant you the ability to close distances on targets and rescue team mates with ease. While its high alpha capabilities and strong airframe will allow you to slot into enemies tail's if needed.

The Kfir will begin to wing rip at 750 knots IAS. This is displayed on the left of your HUD allowing you to easily manage your speed without excessive head movement or taking your eyes off your target.

The AIM-9G locking is at the bottom of your HUD, this can be difficult to learn, but once you do, it is not a big issue.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Great flight characteristics
* Amazing control authority at any speed
* Above average acceleration below Mach 1, and one of the fastest acceleration in the game above Mach 1
* Extremely fast, especially at high altitudes
* Has long range Python IIIs with exceptional maneuverability
* Able to take out 1 base if loaded with bombs
* Ballistic computer for guns, bombs, and rockets

'''Cons:'''

* Limited gun ranging radar which does not track or lock enemies
* Delta wing configuration bleeds airspeed quickly while in a high G turn
* 36 x countermeasures can be quickly used up, especially if split 50/50 between chaff and flares
* Missiles are pointed down requiring you to pull alpha or be above the target to get a lock
* No radar or radar-guided armament
*

== History ==


In the 1960s, French and Israeli engineers worked together to develop the [[Mirage 5F|Dassault Mirage 5]], successor to the [[Mirage IIICJ|Mirage III]], tailored specifically to the requirements of the Israeli Air Force (IAF). Israel funded a large part of the project by purchasing a total of 50 aircraft in advance of their production. The deal eventually fell through when France enacted an arms embargo on Israel following its preemptive strike at the start of the 1967 Six-Day War - an action that the French had explicitly warned Israel not to take. Though Israel was eventually reimbursed for its payments, the Mirage 5 was never supplied.

To circumvent the embargo, Israel collaborated with the Dassault Aviation company to smuggle blueprints and materials out of France to construct their own copy of the Mirage 5 - the [[Nesher|IAI Nesher]]. One of the most successful air superiority fighters of all time, the Nesher scored a staggering 111:3 kill ratio during the Yom Kippur War of 1973. This not only proved the merits of the Mirage 5's design, but also proved that Israel was now capable of manufacturing warplanes locally. This fact was of utmost importance to the Israelis: up until that point they had been completely dependent on the French to supply their aircraft, and were now left orphaned due to the embargo.

Thanks to a gradual warming of relations with the United States, the IAF could begin arming itself with [[A-4H (Israel)|A-4H]] and [[F-4E Phantom II (Israel)|F-4E Phantom II]] jets, which served mostly as ground attackers; but neither could replace the Nesher as an air superiority fighter. With the looming threat of more advanced Soviet fighters entering service in the Arab air forces, Israel was keenly aware that the Nesher could not remain the top dog for long. Israel's response to this threat was to begin development of an advanced fighter jet based on the Mirage 5 design - one that could be manufactured ''from scratch'' in Israel.

A major factor in the design of the new plane was its engine. Israel had already acquired a license to produce the powerful General Electric J79 turbojet - the engine used in the F-4E. Thus, it was decided that the new Mirage 5 variant would be built entirely around this engine. This required several major changes to the airframe, primarily a redesign of the fuselage and enlargement of the air intakes (even adding a small cooling intake in the tail). As per their usual doctrine, the Israelis also installed a completely new advanced avionics package into the cockpit, altering it significantly. Another, more noticeable feature was the addition of two small canards on either side of the intakes.

The resulting aircraft, the ''IAI Kfir'' ("Lion Cub"), entered service in 1975. However, its primacy in the IAF was supplanted almost immediately by the arrival of the first F-15s in late 1976, and later by the [[F-16A Netz (Israel)|F-16s]]. The Kfir was therefore relegated to a fighter-bomber role during the 1982 Lebanon War.

The Kfir C.7, being the third and most advanced variant of the Kfir in IAF service, was designed to fit the aircraft's new role "underneath" the F-15 and F-16. It was built more robustly, and carried a stronger version of the J79 engine that could help it take off with a heavier payload. It had additional hardpoints for carrying extra munitions, and much larger canards than the original design. All Kfir C.7s were in fact upgraded Kfir C.2s, rather than brand new planes.

Despite being originally designed as an air superiority jet, the Kfir only scored a single aerial kill throughout its service in the IAF. Its last action in the IAF occurred during the 1993 Operation Accountability, after which it was gradually removed from service. An export version of the plane, however, was sold to Colombia, Ecuador and Sri Lanka, and still serves in their air forces in 2021, with constant upgrades. The plane took part in combat once again during the (1983-2009) Sri Lankan Civil War from 1996 after introducing the Kfir to it's Air Force.

=== [[wt:en/news/7466-development-kfir-c-7-the-sharp-clawed-lion-cub-en|Devblog]] ===
Immediately after the Six-Day-War, France imposed an arms export embargo on Israel, acutely highlighting the nation's dependence on foreign suppliers of military equipment. Despite the embargo, Israel managed to obtain documentation for the Mirage 5J version, which was developed specifically for the Israeli Air Force before the ban. These aircraft were produced commercially under the name IAI Nesher. But due to the end of supplies from France, Israel turned to the U.S. for assistance, procuring a number of new F-4 Phantom II and A-4 Skyhawk aircraft for its air force. However, when the air force compared the Nesher with the new F-4 Phantom, it realized that the Mirage was falling behind in several aspects. Therefore, plans to outfit Neshers with licence-built Phantom II engines - the General Electric J79 - were drawn up and soon afterward realized with the Kfir (Hebrew for "Lion Cub").

Entering serial production in 1975 and subsequently being commissioned into service with the 101st, 113th and 109th squadrons of the Israeli Air Force, the Kfir first saw combat action in November 1977. While the aircraft performed well and was also well-liked by its pilots, the modification did increase the weight of the aircraft, negatively impacting some of its flight characteristics. Israeli engineers solved the issue by outfitting the Kfir with fixed canards on the forward section of the fuselage.

The Kfir C.7 is a later modification of the aircraft, resulting from continuous efforts of Israeli engineers to further develop the Kfir. The new version featured numerous improvements, including a more powerful afterburner, increased payload and weapon selection as well as new avionics and cockpit arrangement. The Kfir C.7 entered service in 1983 and would remain in active service until the early 1990s before being officially decommissioned by the Israeli Air Force. Subsequently, some units were sold on the export market to Columbia and Sri Lanka where they saw active combat during the Sri Lankan Civil War.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=kfir_c7 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|ERLptF1Nsps|'''The Shooting Range #286''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:36 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[Mirage 5 (Family)]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/7466-development-kfir-c-7-the-sharp-clawed-lion-cub-en|[Devblog] Kfir C.7: The Sharp-Clawed Lion Cub]]

{{Manufacturer IAI}}
{{Israel jet aircraft}}

Kfir C.7

2023-06-14T22:15:12Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Israeli jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Mirage 5 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=kfir_c7
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Israeli jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Winged Lions"]].

The IAI Kfir is a Israeli development of the [[Nesher]], itself a variant of the French [[Mirage 5 (Family)|Mirage 5]]. The delta-winged Mirages are known for their low wing loading and sleek aerodynamics, but their engines tend to be underwhelming. The Kfir rectifies this with an American J79 engine as seen on the [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|F-4 Phantom]] and [[F-104 (Family)|F-104 Starfighter]], which offers vastly more thrust, and fixed canard foreplanes mounted on the air intakes to compensate for the weight changes. The end result is an aircraft with incredible acceleration and high agility, a dangerous opponent in dogfights.

The Kfir's weapons leave something to be desired, reflecting its real-life usage as a basic fighter-bomber. It can carry an impressive payload of bombs and rockets but lacks radar-guided missiles for BVR combat. Its best dogfight missile is the [[AIM-9G Sidewinder]], which is less manoeuvrable than the contemporary [[R-60]] and [[R.550|Matra Magic]] for example. It also does not have guided air-to-ground weapons used by the [[F-4E Phantom II (Israel)|Israeli F-4E]]. Thus, the Kfir requires a skilled pilot to take advantage of its excellent performance to win engagements.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

The Kfir C.7 has an impressive acceleration, even higher than the [[MiG-23MLD]]'s. The plane can also turn quite well, but it is not recommended to turn while in combat as the delta wing configuration will bleed a lot of speed and a slow jet is an easy target. However, you can take the risk to bleed speed in some situations since you regain that speed rather quickly.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 10,668 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,322 || 2,272 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 28.3 || 29.0 || 183.9 || 172.1 || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,457 || 2,388 || 26.0 || 27.0 || 268.9 || 224.6
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || X || X || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,460  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || N/A || N/A || ~11 || ~4
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 920 || < 750 || < 1,460 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | General Electric J79-GE-J1E || 1
| colspan="2" | 7,385 kg || colspan="2" | ___ kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel
|-
| 1,750 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 8,140 kg || 9,187 kg || 9,903 kg || 16,500 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 5,260 kgf || 8,837 kgf
| 1.09 || 0.96 || 0.89 || 0.54
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 5,428 kgf (1,460 km/h) || 11,898 kgf (1,400 km/h)
| 1.46 || 1.30 || 1.20 || 0.72
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

The Kfir lacks any armour surrounding the pilots, making HE hits (missiles and cannons) able to penetrate and hit the pilot with ease.

Survivability of the Kfir is far greater than any of its contemporaries even though it lacks armour. The Kfir can sustain black fuselage damage, and ripped wings can have more than enough control authority to return back home and repair.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|DEFA 552A (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 2 x 30 mm DEFA 552A cannons, belly-mounted (140 rpg = 280 total)
** 2 x 30 mm DEFA 552A cannons + 36 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|LDGP Mk 83 (1,000 lb)|LDGP Mk 84 (2,000 lb)}}
{{main|AIM-9D Sidewinder|AIM-9G Sidewinder|Shafrir 2}}
{{main|FFAR Mighty Mouse|Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP|GAU-4 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x AIM-9D Sidewinder missiles
* 2 x Shafrir 2 missiles
* 4 x Shafrir 2 missiles
* 4 x AIM-9D Sidewinder missiles
* 4 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
* 13 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (6,500 lb total)
* 8 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (8,000 lb total)
* 4 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs + 11 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (9,500 lb total)
* 8 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (6,000 lb total)
* 2 x 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs (4,000 lb total)
* 2 x 20 mm GAU-4 cannons (1,200 rpg = 2,400 total)
* 16 x Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
* 76 x FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="6%" | 1 !! width="6%" | 2 !! width="6%" | 3 !! width="6%" | 4 !! width="6%" | 5 !! width="6%" | 6 !! width="6%" | 7
| rowspan="12" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_Kfir_C.2.png]]</div>
|-
! 20 mm GAU-4 cannons (1,200 rpg)
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
| || 2, 3 || 2 || 5 || 2 || 2, 3 ||
|-
! 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs
| || 2 || 2 || || 2 || 2 ||
|-
! 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs
| || 2 || 2 || || 2 || 2 ||
|-
! 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
| || 38 || || || || 38 ||
|-
! Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
| || 8 || || || || 8 ||
|-
! AIM-9D Sidewinder missiles
| 1 || 1 || || || || 1 || 1
|-
! AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
| 1 || 1 || || || || 1 || 1
|-
! Shafrir 2 missiles
| 1 || 1 || || || || 1 || 1
|-
| colspan="8" | Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 1,500 kg
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==


;RB:

The Kfir C.7 is one of the fastest accelerating and best climbing planes in the game, its performance at >1,234 km/h and high altitude is particularly exceptional, on top of being highly manoeuvrable, though the plane will compress when going above Mach 1. This does help the Kfir maintain energy, but once it falls out of that compressed state it will pull, and pull hard. With the speed and acceleration advantage the Kfir offers, it suffers from its own success as the wings will rip at 1,460 km/h which can easily be exceeded with the Kfir if speed isn't being kept in check.

The Kfir suffers from the same issue as other delta wing designs such as the [[J35 (Family)]] and [[MiG-21 (Family)]], and [[Mirage 5 (Family)|Mirage (Family)]] (which it's derived from), in that it bleeds quite a bit of speed while performing manoeuvres, and therefore sustained dogfights are not recommended in the Kfir. It will perform exceptionally well for the first few turns, so attempt to shoot down the target within that window. If unable to dispatch the enemy and the fight is being prolonged, then it's recommended to use the Kfir's exceptional acceleration and top speed to egress from the situation, and perhaps re-enter when the situation is more favourable to the Kfir.

One way of playing the Kfir C.7 is to fly around the center of the map and launch missiles at distracted enemies from behind. This will require you to stay low after takeoff and fly near the edge of the map to avoid being seen or being detected by enemy radar. Once the furball has formed, climb above the enemy, then look for enemies that are slow, distracted, un-aware of their surroundings then launch an AIM-9G missile at 3 km or closer. The main challenge to this play style is to find distracted enemy and be unnoticed when launching your missile.

Another way of playing the Kfir C.7 is to accelerate past Mach after takeoff, and then proceed to zoom up to high altitude at roughly 6-8 km where missiles are capable of flying much further, where the Kfir can truly stretch its exceptional speed and performance. Its primary weapon, the [[AIM-9G Sidewinder]], will have an exceptional range at these altitudes and it is not uncommon to achieve kills at ranges over 5-6 km. Be mindful that the radar will slave the seeker head of the [[AIM-9G Sidewinder]], and can be used to help achieve locks even if the plane is not directly off the nose of the aircraft. However, this play style is not recommended unless down tiered due to SARH and ARH missiles being very common at battle rating 11.3 and higher

;SB:

The Kfir is a phenomenal support fighter.

Due to its lack of radar and low countermeasure count at EC7 you do not want to spear head any fight. Your best way to play the plane is to stay 1-2 grid squares away from the main battle and wait for people call out enemies or for you to spot dog fights.

The Kfir's top speed will grant you the ability to close distances on targets and rescue team mates with ease. While its high alpha capabilities and strong airframe will allow you to slot into enemies tail's if needed.

The Kfir will begin to wing rip at 750 knots IAS. This is displayed on the left of your HUD allowing you to easily manage your speed without excessive head movement or taking your eyes off your target.

The AIM-9G locking is at the bottom of your HUD, this can be difficult to learn, but once you do, it is not a big issue.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Great flight characteristics
* Amazing control authority at any speed
* Above average acceleration below Mach 1, and one of the fastest acceleration in the game above Mach 1
* Extremely fast, especially at high altitudes
* Has long range Python IIIs with exceptional maneuverability
* Able to take out 1 base if loaded with bombs
* Ballistic computer for guns, bombs, and rockets

'''Cons:'''

* Limited gun ranging radar which does not track or lock enemies
* Delta wing configuration bleeds airspeed quickly while in a high G turn
* 36 x countermeasures can be quickly used up, especially if split 50/50 between chaff and flares
* Missiles are pointed down requiring you to pull alpha or be above the target to get a lock
* No radar or radar-guided armament
* No all-aspect missiles

== History ==


In the 1960s, French and Israeli engineers worked together to develop the [[Mirage 5F|Dassault Mirage 5]], successor to the [[Mirage IIICJ|Mirage III]], tailored specifically to the requirements of the Israeli Air Force (IAF). Israel funded a large part of the project by purchasing a total of 50 aircraft in advance of their production. The deal eventually fell through when France enacted an arms embargo on Israel following its preemptive strike at the start of the 1967 Six-Day War - an action that the French had explicitly warned Israel not to take. Though Israel was eventually reimbursed for its payments, the Mirage 5 was never supplied.

To circumvent the embargo, Israel collaborated with the Dassault Aviation company to smuggle blueprints and materials out of France to construct their own copy of the Mirage 5 - the [[Nesher|IAI Nesher]]. One of the most successful air superiority fighters of all time, the Nesher scored a staggering 111:3 kill ratio during the Yom Kippur War of 1973. This not only proved the merits of the Mirage 5's design, but also proved that Israel was now capable of manufacturing warplanes locally. This fact was of utmost importance to the Israelis: up until that point they had been completely dependent on the French to supply their aircraft, and were now left orphaned due to the embargo.

Thanks to a gradual warming of relations with the United States, the IAF could begin arming itself with [[A-4H (Israel)|A-4H]] and [[F-4E Phantom II (Israel)|F-4E Phantom II]] jets, which served mostly as ground attackers; but neither could replace the Nesher as an air superiority fighter. With the looming threat of more advanced Soviet fighters entering service in the Arab air forces, Israel was keenly aware that the Nesher could not remain the top dog for long. Israel's response to this threat was to begin development of an advanced fighter jet based on the Mirage 5 design - one that could be manufactured ''from scratch'' in Israel.

A major factor in the design of the new plane was its engine. Israel had already acquired a license to produce the powerful General Electric J79 turbojet - the engine used in the F-4E. Thus, it was decided that the new Mirage 5 variant would be built entirely around this engine. This required several major changes to the airframe, primarily a redesign of the fuselage and enlargement of the air intakes (even adding a small cooling intake in the tail). As per their usual doctrine, the Israelis also installed a completely new advanced avionics package into the cockpit, altering it significantly. Another, more noticeable feature was the addition of two small canards on either side of the intakes.

The resulting aircraft, the ''IAI Kfir'' ("Lion Cub"), entered service in 1975. However, its primacy in the IAF was supplanted almost immediately by the arrival of the first F-15s in late 1976, and later by the [[F-16A Netz (Israel)|F-16s]]. The Kfir was therefore relegated to a fighter-bomber role during the 1982 Lebanon War.

The Kfir C.7, being the third and most advanced variant of the Kfir in IAF service, was designed to fit the aircraft's new role "underneath" the F-15 and F-16. It was built more robustly, and carried a stronger version of the J79 engine that could help it take off with a heavier payload. It had additional hardpoints for carrying extra munitions, and much larger canards than the original design. All Kfir C.7s were in fact upgraded Kfir C.2s, rather than brand new planes.

Despite being originally designed as an air superiority jet, the Kfir only scored a single aerial kill throughout its service in the IAF. Its last action in the IAF occurred during the 1993 Operation Accountability, after which it was gradually removed from service. An export version of the plane, however, was sold to Colombia, Ecuador and Sri Lanka, and still serves in their air forces in 2021, with constant upgrades. The plane took part in combat once again during the (1983-2009) Sri Lankan Civil War from 1996 after introducing the Kfir to it's Air Force.

=== [[wt:en/news/7466-development-kfir-c-7-the-sharp-clawed-lion-cub-en|Devblog]] ===
Immediately after the Six-Day-War, France imposed an arms export embargo on Israel, acutely highlighting the nation's dependence on foreign suppliers of military equipment. Despite the embargo, Israel managed to obtain documentation for the Mirage 5J version, which was developed specifically for the Israeli Air Force before the ban. These aircraft were produced commercially under the name IAI Nesher. But due to the end of supplies from France, Israel turned to the U.S. for assistance, procuring a number of new F-4 Phantom II and A-4 Skyhawk aircraft for its air force. However, when the air force compared the Nesher with the new F-4 Phantom, it realized that the Mirage was falling behind in several aspects. Therefore, plans to outfit Neshers with licence-built Phantom II engines - the General Electric J79 - were drawn up and soon afterward realized with the Kfir (Hebrew for "Lion Cub").

Entering serial production in 1975 and subsequently being commissioned into service with the 101st, 113th and 109th squadrons of the Israeli Air Force, the Kfir first saw combat action in November 1977. While the aircraft performed well and was also well-liked by its pilots, the modification did increase the weight of the aircraft, negatively impacting some of its flight characteristics. Israeli engineers solved the issue by outfitting the Kfir with fixed canards on the forward section of the fuselage.

The Kfir C.7 is a later modification of the aircraft, resulting from continuous efforts of Israeli engineers to further develop the Kfir. The new version featured numerous improvements, including a more powerful afterburner, increased payload and weapon selection as well as new avionics and cockpit arrangement. The Kfir C.7 entered service in 1983 and would remain in active service until the early 1990s before being officially decommissioned by the Israeli Air Force. Subsequently, some units were sold on the export market to Columbia and Sri Lanka where they saw active combat during the Sri Lankan Civil War.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=kfir_c7 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|ERLptF1Nsps|'''The Shooting Range #286''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:36 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[Mirage 5 (Family)]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/7466-development-kfir-c-7-the-sharp-clawed-lion-cub-en|[Devblog] Kfir C.7: The Sharp-Clawed Lion Cub]]

{{Manufacturer IAI}}
{{Israel jet aircraft}}

Kfir C.2

2023-06-14T22:13:20Z

U91119932: /* Usage in battles */

{{About
| about = gift Israeli jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Mirage 5 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=kfir_c2
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
|market=id50175_kfir_c_2
}}

== Description ==

Based on the [[Nesher]], the Kfir (translates to "Lion Cub") was an Israeli program to improve their existing Mirage fleet with new avionics and the General Electric J79 engine from the [[F-4E_Phantom_II_(Israel)|F-4 Phantom II]]. Compared to the original French SNECMA Atar 9C engine in the Nesher, the J79 engine was shorter and had higher requirements for air flow and operating temperatures, so the modified aircrafts holding the J79 had their rear ends redesigned for the shorter engine, with air intakes added or enlarged to accommodate the engine temperatures. The first prototype, under the name Ra'am (for "Thunder") flew on June 4, 1973, and the prototype would be accepted into Israeli Air Force service on April 14, 1975, in the 101 "First Fighter" Squadron as the Kfir C.1. The Kfir C.2 variant was the second production model after complaints that the C.1 had inferior maneuverability compared to the [[Mirage IIICJ]], which saw the addition of canard (larger than that found on the [[Kfir Canard]]), leading edges on the wing, and small strakes on the nose.

The '''{{Specs|name}}''', introduced into the game in [[Update "Wind of Change"]] as a reward for the [[wt:en/news/7640-event-the-battle-for-arachis-en|"Battle for Arachis"]] event, shares its characteristics with the Mirage 5 lineage as a fighter-bomber, capable of performing in an air-to-air or air-to-ground role with its avionics and flight performance. Air-to-air performance is benefitted by the {{Specs|name}}'s maneuverability, especially its turn rates, to get nose onto target for guns or missiles, though missile availability is hindered to just two IR seeking missiles. For air-to-ground, the {{Specs|name}}'s ability to carry a total of eight 1000 lb bombs allows it to be able to destroy a base in air realistic mode or several armoured ground targets in ground battles. A full suite of [[Ballistic_Computer|ballistic computers allow for CCIP and CCRP]] usage that allows Kfir pilots to get their payload onto target as accurately as possible. The versatility in the Kfir's roles ensures that players are able to use it in response to different combat situations over the course of a match.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 10,668 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,304 || 2,254 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 28.6 || 29.1 || 167.0 || 155.6 || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,442 || 2,374 || 25.8 || 27.0 || 245.5 || 204.5
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || X || X || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,460  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || - || - || - || ~11 || ~4
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 920 || < 750 || < 1,460 || -
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | General Electric J79-GE-17 || 1
| colspan="2" | 7,370 kg || colspan="2" | 287 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | {{Annotation|Max Gross Weight|Mass of the fully equipped aircraft with heaviest weapons load}}
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 28m fuel
|-
| 1,750 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 8,125 kg || 9,152 kg || 9,888 kg || 14,163 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 28m fuel || MGW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 5,200 kgf || 8,154 kgf
| 1.00 || 0.89 || 0.82 || 0.58
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 5,366 kgf (1,460 km/h) || 10,978 kgf (1,400 km/h)
| 1.35 || 1.19 || 1.11 || 0.78
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

''Examine the survivability of the aircraft. Note how vulnerable the structure is and how secure the pilot is, whether the fuel tanks are armoured, etc. Describe the armour, if there is any, and also mention the vulnerability of other critical aircraft systems.''

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|DEFA 552A (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 2 x 30 mm DEFA 552A cannons, belly-mounted (140 rpg = 280 total)
** 2 x 30 mm DEFA 552A cannons + 36 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|LDGP Mk 83 (1,000 lb)|LDGP Mk 84 (2,000 lb)}}
{{main|AIM-9D Sidewinder|AIM-9G Sidewinder|Shafrir 2}}
{{main|FFAR Mighty Mouse|Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP|GAU-4 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x AIM-9D Sidewinder missiles
* 2 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
* 2 x Shafrir 2 missiles
* 13 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (6,500 lb total)
* 8 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (8,000 lb total)
* 8 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs + 2 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles (8,000 lb total)
* 8 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (6,000 lb total)
* 8 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs + 2 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles (6,000 lb total)
* 2 x 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs (4,000 lb total)
* 2 x 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs + 2 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles (4,000 lb total)
* 2 x 20 mm GAU-4 cannons (1,200 rpg = 2,400 total)
* 16 x Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
* 76 x FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
* 9 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs + 2 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles + 16 x Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets (4,500 lb total)
* 9 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs + 2 x AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles + 76 x FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets (4,500 lb total)

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="6%" | 1 !! width="6%" | 2 !! width="6%" | 3 !! width="6%" | 4 !! width="6%" | 5 !! width="6%" | 6 !! width="6%" | 7
| rowspan="12" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! 20 mm GAU-4 cannons (1,200 rpg)
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
| || 2, 3 || 2 || 5 || 2 || 2, 3 ||
|-
! 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs
| || 2 || 2 || || 2 || 2 ||
|-
! 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs
| || 2 || 2 || || 2 || 2 ||
|-
! 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
| || 38 || || || || 38 ||
|-
! Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
| || 8 || || || || 8 ||
|-
! AIM-9D Sidewinder missiles
| 1 || || || || || || 1
|-
! AIM-9G Sidewinder missiles
| 1 || || || || || || 1
|-
! Shafrir 2 missiles
| 1 || || || || || || 1
|-
| colspan="8" | Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 1,100 kg
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

''Describe the tactics of playing in the aircraft, the features of using aircraft in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Very fast acceleration
* Good manoeuvrability
* Turns hard
* Hard-hitting 30 mm autocannons
* Python III missiles have the highest G limit of any missile in-game and have very good range and accel

'''Cons:'''

* Only 2 IR air-to-air missiles and no access to SARH missiles
* No flaps
* Below average roll rate
* 30 mm cannons have slow muzzle velocity
* It can rip its wings at low altitude

== History ==

===[[wt:en/news/7637-development-battle-for-arachis-kfir-c-2-en|Devblog]]===
Operationally, the Kfir fighters from the first production series revealed a number of flaws in their design, in particular, an increased mass compared to the Mirage, as well as a forward shift in balance due to the greater weight of the suspended weaponry that affected the controllability and turn rate. To eliminate these concerns, the engineers proposed equipping the fighter with canards in the air intake areas, as well as installing aerodynamic ridges to redirect the airstream from the nose and provide a vortex around the canards. A dogtooth appeared on the leading edge of the wing that was intended to increase the lateral stability of the aircraft at high angles of attack. As a result, maneuverability at low speeds increased, and takeoff and landing runs became shorter. In addition, the new Kfir modification also received two additional weapon suspension hardpoints. The modification of the fighter with canards entered service with the Israeli Air Force in 1977 under the designation Kfir C.2, in addition to new machines, most Kfirs from the first production series were upgraded to the C.2 level. Aside from Israel, Kfir C.2 was in service with the armies of Colombia, Ecuador and Sri Lanka.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=kfir_c2 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Images
<gallery mode="packed-hover" heights="200">
Kfir_C.2_WTWallpaper001.jpg
Kfir_C.2_WTWallpaper002.jpg
Kfir_C.2_WTWallpaper003.jpg
Kfir_C.2_WTWallpaper004.jpg
Kfir_C.2_WTWallpaper005.jpg
</gallery>

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[Mirage 5 (Family)]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/7637-development-battle-for-arachis-kfir-c-2-en|[Devblog] "Battle for Arachis": Kfir C.2]]

{{Manufacturer IAI}}
{{Israel jet aircraft}}

J-8B

2023-05-07T22:39:50Z

U91119932: /* Description */

{{About
| about = Chinese jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| and
| usage = the Swedish biplanes
| link-1 = J8A
| link-2 = Iacobi's J8A
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=j_8b
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The J-8B (Chinese: 歼-8B型歼击机) and known by its nickname "Beauty in Air" (空中美男子) or NATO codename of "Finback", was one of the cornerstones of PLAAF before the 2000s that was developed from a revised design of the previous J-8I series with nose intake and inferior avionics. The jet was developed in early 1980s to compete with its intended foe: MiG-23 Floggers with overall superior performance to the first series J-8. However, the results of war in the Middle East proved J-8II should be aimed for even tougher enemies like F-16A, thus the prototype was planned for upgrades that could only be achieved by early 1990s with 1960s-equivalent avionics. These were the Block 2 of J-8II with a slightly upgraded radar for serial production and have served PLAAF for a decade until they were upgraded to later variants with new avionics, one of these jets also played a major part in the ongoing Sino-American conflicts and left its name in the pages of history.

Introduced in [[Update "Wind of Change"|Update "Wind of Change]] and being the first jet at the time of introduction to have SARH and search radar for the PLAAF, it retains a good top-speed and sufficient manoeuvrability for such a huge jet. The J-8B is more than 20 m in length and 5.4 m in height, making it the largest of the Rank VII fighters in all dimensions except wingspan, but it has a lower empty weight than the [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|F-4 Phantom]] or even the [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]]. With two WP-13 engines and very clean aerodynamics, the J-8B has excellent acceleration and climb to fit its role as a high-altitude interceptor and can still turn well enough to dogfight in a pinch - quite apropos to its NATO reporting name of a long yet sleek whale.

However the J-8B is still an early model of the J-8II series and has some quirks. The domestic Type 208A radar has comparable performance to the Mig-21's Sapfir-22 Fire-control radar with twice the maximum range and a 120 degree sweep angle but no boresight targeting option. It is also limited to only 4 air-to-air missiles. Although the J-8B cannot go toe-to-toe with dedicated BVR fighters like the [[F-4J Phantom II|F-4J]] and [[F-4EJ Kai Phantom II|F-4EJ Kai]], it can still be successful if used with some caution and complements the J-7E well.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

To sum up what a J-8 series looks like, "a Fishbed on steroids" would be very fitting since the overall design was literally an enlarged version of the J-7 with 2 turbojet engines: the later J-8II series revised the front of the airframe and introduced side intakes for a more streamline design. This size is also a drawback of the J-8B since it becomes a much larger target than its tech-tree predecessor, [[J-7E]].

Thanks to technological improvements over the decades, the J-8B equips two AECC Shenyang Liming WP-13A-II turbojet engines, improving the overall speed and climb rate over the J-8I (the J-8II was the fastest, highest climb rate jet in the PLAAF service until the introduction of Su-27SK/J-11 Flanker-B/L). The use of composite material also reduced its weight, while it retained its good manoeuvrability for such a large interceptor thanks to reworked elevators. However, just like any delta wing jets, any high AoA manoeuvres would be at the cost of severe speed bleeding; although the twin engines do mitigate some of the problem with their high acceleration, it is still advised to fly the J-8B as an interceptor instead of a turn-fighter, hit-and-run or high altitude operations is where it shines.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 12,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,226 || 2,206 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 27.8 || 28.7 || 167.4 || 159.6 || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,385 || 2,300 || 26.4 || 27.0 || 235.8 || 200.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,365  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 525 || 450 || ~12 || ~6
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 650 || < 600 || < 900 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="5" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="3" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Shenyang Liming WP-13A-II || 2
| colspan="2" | 9,947 kg || colspan="3" | ___ kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="4" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 10m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 35m fuel
|-
| 1,140 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 11,243 kg || 12,362 kg || 13,570 kg || 14,267 kg || _,___ kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="5" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 10m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 35m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 3,825 kgf || 6,483 kgf
| 1.15 || 1.05 || 0.96 || 0.91 || _.__
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 3,825 kgf (0 km/h) || 6,977 kgf (1,200 km/h)
| 1.24 || 1.13 || 1.03 || 0.98 || _.__
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

As with many jet aircraft, the J-8B has self-sealing fuel tanks, as well as a 65 mm bulletproof glass windshield and a 16 mm plate behind the pilot's seat.

* 16 mm Steel plate - Rear of cockpit, behind the seat
* 65 mm Bulletproof glass - Windshield

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Cross}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|Type 23-3 (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon, belly-mounted (200 rpg)
** 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon + 64 x large calibre countermeasures

The J-8B is the first Chinese aircraft in War Thunder to be equipped with the Type 23-3 cannon, which is a copy of the Soviet [[GSh-23L (23 mm)|GSh-23L]] seen on the [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]] and most [[MiG-21 (Family)|MiG-21]] models. Compared to the J-7E's lone 30 mm cannon, the Type 23-3 has a much higher rate of fire and more ammunition, but poorer ballistics and a lesser damage output.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|Aspide-1A|PL-5B|Type 90-1}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 2 x PL-5B missiles
* 4 x PL-5B missiles
* 2 x Aspide-1A missiles
* 8 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (4,000 lb total)
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 2 x Aspide-1A missiles
* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 8 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (4,000 lb total)
* 4 x PL-5B missiles + 6 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 6 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs + 2 x Aspide-1A missiles (3,000 lb total)
* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 28 x Type 90-1 rockets

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" width="100%" style="text-align:center"
|-
! !! width="5%" | 1 !! width="5%" | 2 !! width="5%" | 3 !! width="5%" | 4 !! width="5%" | 5 !! width="5%" | 6 !! width="5%" | 7
| rowspan="6" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! Type 90-1 rockets
| 7 || 7 || || || || 7 || 7
|-
! Aspide-1A missiles
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
| || 1 || || 6 || || 1 ||
|-
! PL-5B missiles
| || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 ||
|-
| colspan="8" | Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 1,000 kg
|-
|}

The J-8B's primary weapon is the PL-5B infrared homing missile that users of the previous J-7E will be very familiar with. It is still an excellent weapon with high manoeuvrability and acceleration, but it does not have an all-aspect seeker and cannot be used in head-ons.

A new asset is the Italian Aspide-1A semi-active radar homing missile, the first of its class available to any Chinese fighter. A derivative of the AIM-7 Sparrow, the Aspide looks about the same but has an improved rocket motor: its 25 G overload matches the [[Skyflash]] and its Mach 5.0 max speed is the best of any Sparrow model in the game. The Aspide offers a fast and deadly punch in head-ons or longer distances. However, it is held back by the J-8B's primitive radar, which lacks look-down/shoot-down capability and has limited range. In addition, only two can be carried.

For ground attack, the J-8B has access to Type 90-1 HEAT rockets and 500 lb bombs. It might not have the best payload among competitors, but having both missiles and bombs/rocket pods for multirole purpose is now possible thanks to the addition of ballistic computer; be extra careful on the speed and altitude- such a huge jet need more altitude to break-off from assaults.

== Usage in battles ==

The basic design of the J-8 series is aimed for high-altitude interception of supersonic strategic bombers and the J-8B is no exception, its excellent climb rate, top speed, and acceleration make it a high-flyer by all means. Don't be fooled by the sheer size of it, the aerodynamic and control surface features on the J-8B make it surprisingly manoeuvrable as its flight envelope is very similar to a MiG-21MF, if not better; while the size can be a problem as well due to the large surface area, it would be easy for other jets to land shots upon you.

The overall air-to-air weaponry and avionics are sufficient, though somewhat inferior to competitors. Neither the PL-5B IR AAM nor the Aspide-1A SARH AAM are limited by launch overload, which really helps when shooting down targets further than 1.5 km (both missiles need some distance before they can manoeuvre). The large calibre countermeasures help in mitigating the flaws in weaponry systems, but it is still advised not to rush into the battlefield.

Pilots of the J-8B should be extra cautious to any enemies that might appear. Although flying high can mitigate the affects of radar ground clutter if you choose to bring the '''Aspide-1A''' missiles ''(aka '''A弹 [A-missile]''' in PLAAF)'', it means the same for enemies' SARH missiles. If only bringing '''PL-5Bs''' into the fight, stay away from the heated battlefield, then fly in and pick up targets who has already used up their energy or unaware of your existence, a solid hit from a PL-5B can take down enemies with relative ease; do keep in mind that the missile is best used at distance over 1.5 km due to its immersive acceleration, the pylons without overload limitations really helps during interception of targets at lower altitude or revenge on foes who overtakes J-8B and didn't pull away from the player. If the player decides to bring the Aspide-1A missiles in case of a head-on, a special note for J-8B is that due to the overall inferior performance of the SL-5A (208A) radar, tune the radar to 60 km acquisition range and under short scan width (with a very narrow channel of scanning) for best performance against enemy jets; it is suggested to assault targets within 10 km radius and at higher altitude for better radar acquisition - the performance of Aspide-1A is likely to blow the enemies into pieces with ease; try to keep enemy on track as much as possible before Aspide hits the target. While bringing bombs and rocket pods are viable thanks to the addition of ballistic computer, players has to be extra careful on where they should appear as jets at this size need more room for any manoeuvre; but once the jet is in a good position out of enemy detection, the payload can still make short work of enemies while still leaving some chances to take down high-altitude targets.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* High acceleration and top speed
* Surprisingly manoeuvrable for its size
* The first Chinese jet with SARH missiles
* Large-calibre countermeasures like those on the [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]]
* Sufficient air-to-ground ordnance

'''Cons:'''

* Huge size relative to its predecessors
* Small ammo pool at only 200 rounds
* Bleeds speed severely in manoeuvres
* Inferior avionics to its counterparts such as [[F-4EJ Phantom II|F-4EJ]]
* Radar is notoriously unreliable, no PD capability nor an ACM feature.

== History ==

=== Background ===
In view of harassment from high-altitude reconnaissance planes and supersonic strategic bombers from both US and USSR in early 1960s, Xu Shunshou (徐舜寿) and Huang Zhiqian (黄志千), the duo of designers from Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) who had just finished the JJ-1 (歼教-1) program, soon started their design on a new interceptor. There were 22 designs for the new interceptor and most of them opted for a single-engine version, while Huang Zhiqian decided to leave a twin-engine design in case the development of the new engine would lag the entire program. After an intense debate on whether the new engine would be made in time, Huang's design, dubbed "Roast Duck" (烤鸭), using 2 existing WP-7 engines from J-7, became the design SAC opted for. This design was given the green light on 17th May 1965 as the J-8 (歼-8).

Although the development of the J-8I was smooth sailing, during the ground tests and stress test, the first prototype was proved unsafe to do test flights and the failure of the first stress test almost gave the J-8I its death sentence; this was further intensified by the deaths of the designer duo. The new chief designer, Gu Songfen (顾诵芬) continued the project with their wills and finally rectified its manufacturing flaws. The J-8I finally made its first flight on 5th July 1969. However, SAC took a whole decade to finalise the aerodynamic design of the J-8I and the new jet only passed for state certification in the very last hours of 1979.

=== J-8II ===
Although later simulated dogfights with J-7 proved the J-8I was superior to the former in many aspects, the MiG-23 (NATO: Flogger) was becoming a big threat to the PLAAF with better avionics. Although a MiG-23SM had been obtained from Egypt for evaluation, instead of reverse-engineering a domestic Flogger, they opted for a more streamlined design with side intakes based on the Flogger, as well as the first Chinese jet to utilize composite materials on wings and stabilizer for weight reduction. The redesigned the J-8II made its first flight on 12th June 1984 with new technologies utilized during manufacture as well as for SARH missiles.

The 1980s also marked a better relationship with western countries, SAC then sought Grumman to upgrade the J-8II into a modernized jet dubbed "Project 8-2" or Peace Pearl (八二工程/和平珍珠) with the latest avionics from the F-16C. However, the 1989 Beijing Crackdown halted this program and it was eventually cancelled in 1990 in view of importing new Su-27 Flankers from the Soviet Union. While the Project 8-2 and later Project 8-3 (J-8C) failed, SAC finalised the radar and the J-8II Block 2/J-8B passed certification in 1995. With later models of the J-8II series produced in the late 1990s and 2000s, these earlier J-8B were mostly upgraded to newer standards (D with refuel probe; H,F with better avionics and missiles); the remaining combat-capable J-8II series were decommissioned by the very last Air Force brigade in Western Theatre Command <ref>https://new.qq.com/omn/20220606/20220606A073IC00.html</ref>, marking the end of J-8II in combat service and only a recon brigade in Chongming, Shanghai still operate the very last dozen of JZ-8F recon.

=== The Spiritual Number: 81192 ===
The default skin for J-8B includes the number "81192" painted on the sides outside of cockpit, this number has become the spiritual number of military enthusiasts and players in Mainland China due to the [[wikipedia:Hainan_Island_incident|Hainan Island Incident]] between the PLANAF and USN.

On 1st April 2001, an EP-3 (BuNo. 156511) from VQ-1 of the USN stationed at Okinawa, piloted by Lieutenant Commander Shane Osborn was conducting a reconnaissance flight close to Hainan Island, where a pair of J-8B from Hainan Lingshui Airbase intercepted them; one of the J-8B, piloted by Major Wang Wei (王伟) from 27 Brigade, 9th Division of PLANAF, accidentally rammed the EP-3's left wing and was severely damaged by the propellers, his jet crashed into the South China Sea and the EP-3 made an emergency landing at Lingshui Airbase. Although Wang Wei was witnessed to have ejected, after weeks of searching, he was declared KIA and was posthumously given martyr and the "Guardian of Sea and Air" (海空卫士) title by PLA.

This incident further ignited the backlash towards the US in Mainland China after multiple diplomatic incidents during the 1990s; the EP-3 was then disassembled and sent back to USN with an Antonov AN-124 and the incident ended with an official apology from the US Government.

A decade later, photos from a photographer in Mainland China proved that the J-8B numbered 81192 was still in service in the early 2010s (but upgraded to J-8BH standards with a black radome); later rediscovery of magazine photos showed that a model of the J-8B given to Ruan Guoqin (阮国琴), widow of Wang Wei, was numbered 81194. The debate of whether 92 or 94 was the jet involved still continues, but the number 81192 has already become the symbol of the long-lasting Sino-US conflicts and there are memorial events every year at Wang Wei's cenotaph at Huzhou, Zhejiang.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=j_8b Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|5E2X7q_tIgM|'''The Shooting Range #306''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:26 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==


* [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]]

== External links ==


=== References ===
<references />

{{AirManufacturer Shenyang}}
{{China jet aircraft}}

MiG-19S (Germany)

2023-05-07T19:39:53Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = German jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = MiG-19 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=mig-19s
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (NATO designation: "Farmer") is a rank {{Specs|rank}} German jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.87 "Locked On"]].

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

The MiG-19S 'Farmer' serves as a capable supersonic fighter boasting an incredible thrust-to-weight ratio, a highly competitive top speed, and lethal primary armaments. Thanks to the two afterburning turbojet engines, the MiG-19S is able to accelerate very well at all speeds and can use this thrust to achieve a considerable climb rate matched by nearly no other aircraft at its tier. In exchange for these great engines however, MiG-19S pilots will find their fighter's manoeuvrability moderately worse than their opponents, with the Farmer's rudder being especially poor compared to its contemporaries. Elevator authority is not terrible, but subsonic fighter jets will easily beat out a MiG-19S in a turning engagement.

Thanks to the plane's access to a drogue chute, as well as the relatively strong landing gear, the MiG-19S is capable of pulling of high-speed landings, with a touchdown at over 350 km/h being easily possible. The plane's high thrust-to-weight also allows it to take off quicker than most other jets it will find itself with and against.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 10,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 1,441 || 1,436 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 24.4 || 24.7 || 164.7 || 156.8 || rowspan="2" | 515
|-
! Upgraded
| 1,465 || 1,451 || 23.6 || 24.0 || 217.2 || 190.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 500 || 450 || ~12 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 540 || < 650 || < 350 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Mikulin RD-9B || 2
| colspan="2" | 5,550 kg || colspan="2" | 292 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 7m fuel || 20m fuel || 25m fuel
|-
| 725 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 6,090 kg || 6,951 kg || 7,350 kg || 8,832 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 7m fuel || 20m fuel || 25m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 2,296 kgf || 3,218 kgf
| 1.06 || 0.93 || 0.88 || 0.73
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 2,320 kgf (1,000 km/h) || 3,284 kgf (1,000 km/h)
| 1.08 || 0.94 || 0.89 || 0.74
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


* 64 mm Bulletproof glass in front of the pilot
* 10 mm Steel plate in front of the cockpit
* 16.5 mm Steel plate in the pilot's seat

As is typical of more modern aircraft, the MiG-19S does not take damage well. Though the pilot is well-protected against HE rounds from the front, almost the entirety of the plane's middle and rear fuselage is taken up by the MiG-19S's two engines which are thus incredibly easy to hit. Thanks to the plane's heavy reliance on the power of those engines, any damage to either or both of them causes massive problems to the Farmer. Loss of thrust harms the plane immensely, as the MiG-19's lack of manoeuvrability leaves it with little options against a persistent foe while it has damaged engines. The MiG-19 can also suffer from asymmetric thrust (when one engine is more damaged than another) causing the plane to struggle heavily at low speeds, due to the weak rudder potentially struggling to compensate.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|NR-30 (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 1 x 30 mm NR-30 cannons, chin-mounted (70 rpg)
* 2 x 30 mm NR-30 cannons, wing-mounted (70 rpg = 140 total)

The MiG-19S's 30 mm NR-30 cannons are highly devastating, rarely dealing anything less than a fatal blow thanks to their high calibre. They also boast a great muzzle velocity, most comparable to the British [[ADEN (30 mm)|30 mm ADEN cannon]], aiding the pilot against high speed targets such as other supersonic jets. Their positions, all close to the nose of the aircraft, further improve the performance of these cannons.

However, the MiG-19S carries a paltry 70 rounds per gun which combines with the high fire rate of 1,000 RPM to punish poor aim and careless trigger discipline heavily, as well as reducing the MiG-19S's ability to engage in prolonged battles, forming one of the MiG-19S's core weaknesses.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|OFAB-100 (100 kg)|OFAB-250sv (250 kg)|S-5K}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 2 x 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs (200 kg total)
* 2 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (500 kg total)
* 16 x S-5K rockets
* 32 x S-5K rockets

== Usage in battles ==

Farmer pilots will need to rely on the power of their engines above all else to come out victorious in battle. Little at top tier can match the raw power of the MiG-19S's dual afterburning engines, which allow the pilot the safety to deal with slower aircraft at his or her own pace, as the defender slowly loses their energy.

Though the MiG-19S's top speed is lower than some of its contemporaries, such as the [[F-4C Phantom II]] or [[J-7II]], the Farmer instead boasts an immense thrust-to-weight ratio when the afterburner is active, allowing pilots to engage in energy-burning manoeuvres with faster opponents, who will struggle to keep up with the acceleration of the MiG-19 when recovering speed afterwards. A smart Farmer pilot will abuse this to turn seemingly untouchable faster opponents into easy prey. A reliable tactic when an enemy is on your tail is entering an upward spiral. The MiG's monstrous Thrust-to-Weight Ratio and turn rate will leave most opponents in the dust, forcing the enemy to either disengage or bleed away energy in a futile attempt to keep up. Pilots must keep in mind that some opponents like the [[Mirage IIIC]], [[J35D]], and to a lesser extent [[MiG-21F-13|MiG-21]] can simply turn inside the MiG-19S and shoot you full of holes, so this strategy should be applied with discretion.

Due to the MiG-19S's very low ammunition count, it is important for pilots to consider their shots carefully. The MiG-19S has an amazing climb rate and energy retention, even with high fuel loads, so it may often be better to save ammo, hitting the afterburner to climb away and attempt another attack run later. The Farmer excels in the late game when enemies have run out of missile armament and energy, so players should be mindful to keep an ammo reserve to capitalize on this period.

Though the MiG-19S's selection of secondary armaments is limited, it can nonetheless use those armaments alongside the high top speed to perform hit and run attacks on valuable targets, such as Anti-Air in Combined Battles.

===Radars===

The MiG-19S is equipped with a SRD-1 rangefinding radar, located in the nose of the aircraft.
It will automatically detect other planes within the scanning area and display the range to the closest target. It is linked with a gyro gunsight and can help with aiming at close range.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="4" | SRD-1 - Rangefinding radar
|-
! {{Annotation|Maximum Tracking Range|The maximum range at which a target can be tracked}}
! {{Annotation|Minimum Tracking Range|The range below which targets cannot be tracked by the radar}}
! {{Annotation|Azimuth Tracking Angle|How far to each side the radar can track a target}}
! {{Annotation|Elevation Tracking Angle|How far up and down the radar can track a target}}
|-
| 2,000 m || 150 m || ±9° || ±9°
|-
|}

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Three powerful, high velocity 30 mm cannons
* Unparalleled thrust-to-weight ratio, providing excellent acceleration and climb rate
* Amongst the fastest of all aircraft at it's BR
* Notably short takeoff run for a high-tier jet
* Access to a drogue chute for high-speed landings (deploys automatically below 300 km/h)
* Can perform combat manoeuvres which even modern fly-by-wire aircraft struggle with

'''Cons:'''

* No access to air-to-air missiles
* Poor ammunition count for primary armament
* No combat flaps setting, only takeoff and landing settings
* Compresses at high speed (1,000-1,200 km/h) without "New boosters" modification
* Incredibly underwhelming rudder performance at all speeds
* Highly susceptible to critical engine damage
* Unlike the PT variant, there is no radar available

== History ==

The MiG-19 'Farmer' was the Soviet Union's first supersonic fighter jet to enter production, a successor to the MiG-17 which was developed itself from the MiG-15. The first MiG-19 entered service with the VSS in the mid-'50s. The MiG-19S is a later production variant of the Farmer, a day fighter with two RD-9B afterburning turbojets, outputting a hair over 7100lbs of thrust each when wet.

Compared to earlier variants of the MiG-19, the 'S' variant was equipped with provisions for rocket packs as well as bombs, giving it limited multi-role capability, though it did not have the radar of the MiG-19P, nor access to air-to-air missiles as with the MiG-19PT. For flight characteristics, the MiG-19S came out around 170kg lighter than the earlier MiG-19 variants and had a slightly redesigned airframe for improved aerodynamics.

On 10 March 1964, a USAF photo-reconnaissance aircraft RB-66 Destroyer was on a mission to observe a military exercise at the Gardelegen training range when it crossed over East German airspace. A pair of Russian MiG-19S Farmer-C fighters from the 24th Air Army base in East Germany were scrambled to intercept the photo-reconnaissance aircraft. Attempts to redirect the RB-66 failed even with warning shots fired from the MiG-19S fighters. Finally, Captain Vitaliy Ivannikov was given the order to shoot down the American aircraft which he successfully did. The three American crew members were captured and held for interrogation for four weeks before they were released.<ref name="Key" />

The MiG-19 did not see much combat under the Soviet flag. However, the MiG-19S, or rather a Chinese license-built MiG-19S called the Shenyang J-6, saw combat over Vietnam during the Vietnam War, flying in 1969 with the North Vietnamese Vietnam People's Air Force against USAF F-4 Phantom IIs. The Farmer scored a total of 7 victories against Phantoms over Vietnam.<ref name="Toperczer" />

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=mig-19s Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Images
<gallery mode="packed" heights="200">
File:MiG-19S WTWallpaper 001.jpg
File:MiG-19S WTWallpaper 002.jpg
File:MiG-19S WTWallpaper 003.jpg
File:MiG-19S WTWallpaper 004.jpg
File:MiG-19S WTWallpaper 005.jpg
File:MiG-19S WTWallpaper 006.jpg
</gallery>

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|t3xD7JpnHeI|'''Best aircraft for Boom & Zoom''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 5:51 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''|GGDkBNydVs4|'''The BEST of the REST! MiG-19S''' - ''Jengar''|ElwYSvbrPvU|'''MiG-19S - The T2Killer''' - ''WhooptieDo''|iL4nYf3M_nc|'''Mig-19 - Nope, Nothing Wrong Here''' - ''WhooptieDo''}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-17]]
* Shenyang [[J-6A|J6]]

;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era

* Dassault [[Super Mystere B2|Super Mystère]]
* North American [[F-100D|F-100]] Super Sabre
* Mitsubishi [[Mitsubishi T-2|T-2]]
* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-19PT]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/6047-development-mig-19s-magnificent-performance-en|[Development] MiG-19S: Magnificent Performance]]
* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/445743-mikoyan-gurevich-mig-19s/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]

=== References ===
<references>
<ref name="Toperczer">Toperczer, I. (2001). ''MIG-17 and MIG-19 units of the Vietnam War'' (''Osprey Combat Aircraft #25''). Oxford: Osprey. ISBN 1841761621</ref>
<ref name="Key">Bridgewater, S., & Gibbs, R. (Eds.). (2019). ''MIG 29 - Red Star Fighters; MiG-1 to MiG-35 & Beyond''. Stamford, UK: KEY Publishing. ISBN 9781912205127</ref>
</references>

{{AirManufacturer MiG}}
{{Germany jet aircraft}}

J-8B

2023-04-11T18:57:15Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Chinese jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| and
| usage = the Swedish biplanes
| link-1 = J8A
| link-2 = Iacobi's J8A
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=j_8b
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The J-8B (Chinese: 歼-8B型歼击机) and known by its nickname "Beauty in Air" (空中美男子) or NATO codename of "Finback", was one of the cornerstones of PLAAF before the 2000s that was developed from a revised design of the previous J-8I series with nose intake and inferior avionics. The jet was developed in early 1980s to compete with its intended foe: MiG-23 Floggers with overall superior performance to the first series J-8. However, the results of war in the Middle East proved J-8II should be aimed for even tougher enemies like F-16A, thus the prototype was planned for upgrades that could only be achieved by early 1990s with 1960s-equivalent avionics. These were the Block 2 of J-8II with a slightly upgraded radar for serial production and have served PLAAF for a decade until they were upgraded to later variants with new avionics, one of these jets also played a major part in the ongoing Sino-American conflicts and left its name in the pages of history.

Introduced in [[Update "Wind of Change"|Update "Wind of Change]] and being the first jet at the time of introduction to have SARH and search radar for the PLAAF, it retains a good top-speed and sufficient manoeuvrability for such a huge jet. The J-8B is more than 20 m in length and 5.4 m in height, making it the largest of the Rank VII fighters in all dimensions except wingspan, but it has a lower empty weight than the [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|F-4 Phantom]] or even the [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]]. With two WP-13 engines and very clean aerodynamics, the J-8B has excellent acceleration and climb to fit its role as a high-altitude interceptor and can still turn well enough to dogfight in a pinch - quite apropos to its NATO reporting name of a long yet sleek whale.

However the J-8B is still an early model of the J-8II series and has some quirks. The domestic Type 208A radar has comparable performance to the [[F-5E]]'s AN/APQ-159 with no LD/SD capabilities. It is also limited to only 4 air-to-air missiles. Although the J-8B cannot go toe-to-toe with dedicated BVR fighters like the [[F-4J Phantom II|F-4J]] and [[F-4EJ Kai Phantom II|F-4EJ Kai]], it can still be successful if used with some caution and complements the J-7E well.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

To sum up what a J-8 series looks like, "a Fishbed on steroids" would be very fitting since the overall design was literally an enlarged version of the J-7 with 2 turbojet engines: the later J-8II series revised the front of the airframe and introduced side intakes for a more streamline design. This size is also a drawback of the J-8B since it becomes a much larger target than its tech-tree predecessor, [[J-7E]].

Thanks to technological improvements over the decades, the J-8B equips two AECC Shenyang Liming WP-13A-II turbojet engines, improving the overall speed and climb rate over the J-8I (the J-8II was the fastest, highest climb rate jet in the PLAAF service until the introduction of Su-27SK/J-11 Flanker-B/L). The use of composite material also reduced its weight, while it retained its good manoeuvrability for such a large interceptor thanks to reworked elevators. However, just like any delta wing jets, any high AoA manoeuvres would be at the cost of severe speed bleeding; although the twin engines do mitigate some of the problem with their high acceleration, it is still advised to fly the J-8B as an interceptor instead of a turn-fighter, hit-and-run or high altitude operations is where it shines.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 12,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,226 || 2,206 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 27.8 || 28.7 || 167.4 || 159.6 || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,385 || 2,300 || 26.4 || 27.0 || 235.8 || 200.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,365  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 525 || 450 || ~12 || ~6
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 650 || < 600 || < 900 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="5" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="3" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Shenyang Liming WP-13A-II || 2
| colspan="2" | 9,947 kg || colspan="3" | ___ kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="4" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 10m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 35m fuel
|-
| 1,140 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 11,243 kg || 12,362 kg || 13,570 kg || 14,267 kg || _,___ kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="5" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 10m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 35m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 3,825 kgf || 6,483 kgf
| 1.15 || 1.05 || 0.96 || 0.91 || _.__
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 3,825 kgf (0 km/h) || 6,977 kgf (1,200 km/h)
| 1.24 || 1.13 || 1.03 || 0.98 || _.__
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

As with many jet aircraft, the J-8B has self-sealing fuel tanks, as well as a 65 mm bulletproof glass windshield and a 16 mm plate behind the pilot's seat.

* 16 mm Steel plate - Rear of cockpit, behind the seat
* 65 mm Bulletproof glass - Windshield

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Cross}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|Type 23-3 (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon, belly-mounted (200 rpg)
** 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon + 64 x large calibre countermeasures

The J-8B is the first Chinese aircraft in War Thunder to be equipped with the Type 23-3 cannon, which is a copy of the Soviet [[GSh-23L (23 mm)|GSh-23L]] seen on the [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]] and most [[MiG-21 (Family)|MiG-21]] models. Compared to the J-7E's lone 30 mm cannon, the Type 23-3 has a much higher rate of fire and more ammunition, but poorer ballistics and a lesser damage output.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|Aspide-1A|PL-5B|Type 90-1}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 2 x PL-5B missiles
* 4 x PL-5B missiles
* 2 x Aspide-1A missiles
* 8 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (4,000 lb total)
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 2 x Aspide-1A missiles
* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 8 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (4,000 lb total)
* 4 x PL-5B missiles + 6 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 6 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs + 2 x Aspide-1A missiles (3,000 lb total)
* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 28 x Type 90-1 rockets

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" width="100%" style="text-align:center"
|-
! !! width="5%" | 1 !! width="5%" | 2 !! width="5%" | 3 !! width="5%" | 4 !! width="5%" | 5 !! width="5%" | 6 !! width="5%" | 7
| rowspan="6" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! Type 90-1 rockets
| 7 || 7 || || || || 7 || 7
|-
! Aspide-1A missiles
| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
|-
! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
| || 1 || || 6 || || 1 ||
|-
! PL-5B missiles
| || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 ||
|-
| colspan="8" | Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 1,000 kg
|-
|}

The J-8B's primary weapon is the PL-5B infrared homing missile that users of the previous J-7E will be very familiar with. It is still an excellent weapon with high manoeuvrability and acceleration, but it does not have an all-aspect seeker and cannot be used in head-ons.

A new asset is the Italian Aspide-1A semi-active radar homing missile, the first of its class available to any Chinese fighter. A derivative of the AIM-7 Sparrow, the Aspide looks about the same but has an improved rocket motor: its 25 G overload matches the [[Skyflash]] and its Mach 5.0 max speed is the best of any Sparrow model in the game. The Aspide offers a fast and deadly punch in head-ons or longer distances. However, it is held back by the J-8B's primitive radar, which lacks look-down/shoot-down capability and has limited range. In addition, only two can be carried.

For ground attack, the J-8B has access to Type 90-1 HEAT rockets and 500 lb bombs. It might not have the best payload among competitors, but having both missiles and bombs/rocket pods for multirole purpose is now possible thanks to the addition of ballistic computer; be extra careful on the speed and altitude- such a huge jet need more altitude to break-off from assaults.

== Usage in battles ==

The basic design of the J-8 series is aimed for high-altitude interception of supersonic strategic bombers and the J-8B is no exception, its excellent climb rate, top speed, and acceleration make it a high-flyer by all means. Don't be fooled by the sheer size of it, the aerodynamic and control surface features on the J-8B make it surprisingly manoeuvrable as its flight envelope is very similar to a MiG-21MF, if not better; while the size can be a problem as well due to the large surface area, it would be easy for other jets to land shots upon you.

The overall air-to-air weaponry and avionics are sufficient, though somewhat inferior to competitors. Neither the PL-5B IR AAM nor the Aspide-1A SARH AAM are limited by launch overload, which really helps when shooting down targets further than 1.5 km (both missiles need some distance before they can manoeuvre). The large calibre countermeasures help in mitigating the flaws in weaponry systems, but it is still advised not to rush into the battlefield.

Pilots of the J-8B should be extra cautious to any enemies that might appear. Although flying high can mitigate the affects of radar ground clutter if you choose to bring the '''Aspide-1A''' missiles ''(aka '''A弹 [A-missile]''' in PLAAF)'', it means the same for enemies' SARH missiles. If only bringing '''PL-5Bs''' into the fight, stay away from the heated battlefield, then fly in and pick up targets who has already used up their energy or unaware of your existence, a solid hit from a PL-5B can take down enemies with relative ease; do keep in mind that the missile is best used at distance over 1.5 km due to its immersive acceleration, the pylons without overload limitations really helps during interception of targets at lower altitude or revenge on foes who overtakes J-8B and didn't pull away from the player. If the player decides to bring the Aspide-1A missiles in case of a head-on, a special note for J-8B is that due to the overall inferior performance of the SL-5A (208A) radar, tune the radar to 60 km acquisition range and under short scan width (with a very narrow channel of scanning) for best performance against enemy jets; it is suggested to assault targets within 10 km radius and at higher altitude for better radar acquisition - the performance of Aspide-1A is likely to blow the enemies into pieces with ease; try to keep enemy on track as much as possible before Aspide hits the target. While bringing bombs and rocket pods are viable thanks to the addition of ballistic computer, players has to be extra careful on where they should appear as jets at this size need more room for any manoeuvre; but once the jet is in a good position out of enemy detection, the payload can still make short work of enemies while still leaving some chances to take down high-altitude targets.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* High acceleration and top speed
* Surprisingly manoeuvrable for its size
* The first Chinese jet with SARH missiles
* Large-calibre countermeasures like those on the [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]]
* Sufficient air-to-ground ordnance

'''Cons:'''

* Huge size relative to its predecessors
* Small ammo pool at only 200 rounds
* Bleeds speed severely in manoeuvres
* Inferior avionics to its counterparts such as [[F-4EJ Phantom II|F-4EJ]]
* Radar is notoriously unreliable, no PD capability nor an ACM feature.

== History ==

=== Background ===
In view of harassment from high-altitude reconnaissance planes and supersonic strategic bombers from both US and USSR in early 1960s, Xu Shunshou (徐舜寿) and Huang Zhiqian (黄志千), the duo of designers from Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) who had just finished the JJ-1 (歼教-1) program, soon started their design on a new interceptor. There were 22 designs for the new interceptor and most of them opted for a single-engine version, while Huang Zhiqian decided to leave a twin-engine design in case the development of the new engine would lag the entire program. After an intense debate on whether the new engine would be made in time, Huang's design, dubbed "Roast Duck" (烤鸭), using 2 existing WP-7 engines from J-7, became the design SAC opted for. This design was given the green light on 17th May 1965 as the J-8 (歼-8).

Although the development of the J-8I was smooth sailing, during the ground tests and stress test, the first prototype was proved unsafe to do test flights and the failure of the first stress test almost gave the J-8I its death sentence; this was further intensified by the deaths of the designer duo. The new chief designer, Gu Songfen (顾诵芬) continued the project with their wills and finally rectified its manufacturing flaws. The J-8I finally made its first flight on 5th July 1969. However, SAC took a whole decade to finalise the aerodynamic design of the J-8I and the new jet only passed for state certification in the very last hours of 1979.

=== J-8II ===
Although later simulated dogfights with J-7 proved the J-8I was superior to the former in many aspects, the MiG-23 (NATO: Flogger) was becoming a big threat to the PLAAF with better avionics. Although a MiG-23SM had been obtained from Egypt for evaluation, instead of reverse-engineering a domestic Flogger, they opted for a more streamlined design with side intakes based on the Flogger, as well as the first Chinese jet to utilize composite materials on wings and stabilizer for weight reduction. The redesigned the J-8II made its first flight on 12th June 1984 with new technologies utilized during manufacture as well as for SARH missiles.

The 1980s also marked a better relationship with western countries, SAC then sought Grumman to upgrade the J-8II into a modernized jet dubbed "Project 8-2" or Peace Pearl (八二工程/和平珍珠) with the latest avionics from the F-16C. However, the 1989 Beijing Crackdown halted this program and it was eventually cancelled in 1990 in view of importing new Su-27 Flankers from the Soviet Union. While the Project 8-2 and later Project 8-3 (J-8C) failed, SAC finalised the radar and the J-8II Block 2/J-8B passed certification in 1995. With later models of the J-8II series produced in the late 1990s and 2000s, these earlier J-8B were mostly upgraded to newer standards (D with refuel probe; H,F with better avionics and missiles); the remaining combat-capable J-8II series were decommissioned by the very last Air Force brigade in Western Theatre Command <ref>https://new.qq.com/omn/20220606/20220606A073IC00.html</ref>, marking the end of J-8II in combat service and only a recon brigade in Chongming, Shanghai still operate the very last dozen of JZ-8F recon.

=== The Spiritual Number: 81192 ===
The default skin for J-8B includes the number "81192" painted on the sides outside of cockpit, this number has become the spiritual number of military enthusiasts and players in Mainland China due to the [[wikipedia:Hainan_Island_incident|Hainan Island Incident]] between the PLANAF and USN.

On 1st April 2001, an EP-3 (BuNo. 156511) from VQ-1 of the USN stationed at Okinawa, piloted by Lieutenant Commander Shane Osborn was conducting a reconnaissance flight close to Hainan Island, where a pair of J-8B from Hainan Lingshui Airbase intercepted them; one of the J-8B, piloted by Major Wang Wei (王伟) from 27 Brigade, 9th Division of PLANAF, accidentally rammed the EP-3's left wing and was severely damaged by the propellers, his jet crashed into the South China Sea and the EP-3 made an emergency landing at Lingshui Airbase. Although Wang Wei was witnessed to have ejected, after weeks of searching, he was declared KIA and was posthumously given martyr and the "Guardian of Sea and Air" (海空卫士) title by PLA.

This incident further ignited the backlash towards the US in Mainland China after multiple diplomatic incidents during the 1990s; the EP-3 was then disassembled and sent back to USN with an Antonov AN-124 and the incident ended with an official apology from the US Government.

A decade later, photos from a photographer in Mainland China proved that the J-8B numbered 81192 was still in service in the early 2010s (but upgraded to J-8BH standards with a black radome); later rediscovery of magazine photos showed that a model of the J-8B given to Ruan Guoqin (阮国琴), widow of Wang Wei, was numbered 81194. The debate of whether 92 or 94 was the jet involved still continues, but the number 81192 has already become the symbol of the long-lasting Sino-US conflicts and there are memorial events every year at Wang Wei's cenotaph at Huzhou, Zhejiang.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=j_8b Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|5E2X7q_tIgM|'''The Shooting Range #306''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:26 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==


* [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]]

== External links ==


=== References ===
<references />

{{AirManufacturer Shenyang}}
{{China jet aircraft}}

Kfir Canard

2023-02-17T16:02:35Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = premium Israeli jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Mirage 5 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=kfir_canard
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|StoreImage_{{PAGENAME}}_004.jpg}}
|store=11812
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}'''; known as F-21A/Kfir Gaderot(C.1) in US/Israeli service, is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} Israeli jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Apex Predators"]].

The representation of the IAI Kfir C.1 variant in Israel Air Force service; the jet itself looks extremely like its technological predecessor [[Nesher]], based on Dassault [[Mirage 5 (Family)|Mirage 5]], but with a pair of fixed canards bolted onto the the sides of the air intake. It might somehow make it look like the later Mirage 2000, but it has an air-to-air armament inferior to its enemies and the combat limitations of delta-wing jets. For ground attack, the Kfir Canard still offers varieties of US bombs and rocket pods to make it effective against grouped targets.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

At first glance, the jet looks very similar to French's Mirage series and players might start to think about the tech-tree predecessor Nesher. However, closer inspection shows the major differences of the Kfir Canard over the Mirage 5/Nesher: a pitot tube, enlarged air intakes, a pair of canards on the intakes, a vertical stabilizer with a longer "spine" as well as a shorter tail. For players already used to the Nesher or Mirage IIICJ, they will quickly feel familiar to the Kfir. For new comers who are flying a delta-wing jet for the first time, they will have to keep in mind the traits of delta wing: high rate of climb, severely energy bleed under manoeuvre and rather high stall speed. But a good news for the Kfir series is the engine, due to the upgrade of engine from a Snecma Atar into a GE J79-GE-17 with higher thrust, the overall acceleration and manoeuvring ability in sustained turns is better than its predecessors (the fixed canard performs inferior to later variants with larger control-canards when pulling high AoA). Always remember the traits of delta-wings and stick to boom-and-zoom attacks rather than turnfights (unless in dire or 1-vs-1).

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max speed (km/h at _,___ m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| ___ || ___ || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || rowspan="2" | ___
|-
! Upgraded
| ___ || ___ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || X || X || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || N/A || N/A || ~__ || ~__
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < ___ || < ___ || < ___ || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | _____ || _
| colspan="2" | _,___ kg || colspan="2" | ___ kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | {{Annotation|Max Gross Weight|Mass of the fully equipped aircraft with heaviest weapons load}}
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! _m fuel || __m fuel || __m fuel
|-
| ___ kg || colspan="2" | ___
| _,___ kg || _,___ kg || _,___ kg || _,___ kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (___%/WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || ___%/WEP
! _m fuel || __m fuel || __m fuel || MGW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || ___ kgf || ___ kgf
| _.__ || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
|-
| ''Optimal'' || ___ kgf (_ km/h) || ___ kgf (_ km/h)
| _.__ || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

The Kfir Canard relies upon not being hit to be effective, largely achieved through its phenomenal acceleration, sharp but brief manoeuvring capability, and level flight speed. The Kfir Canard features no armour protection for the pilot or otherwise. While the aircraft is quite small, the fuel tanks are positioned above the engine and in the wings with the control surfaces meaning that any hits to your airframe will likely result in either a fuel fire (which cannot be manually extinguished as the Kfir Canard lacks extinguishers) or the destruction of a control surface tractor. The Kfir Canard does not respond to even slight damage well and it is advised to return to the airfield if damage is taken, even if still airworthy. This is primarily because the Kfir Canard's main strengths - acceleration, speed, and temporarily exceptional manoeuvrability - are substantially mitigated when damage is taken in general, but even more so if endured by the wings or tail.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|DEFA 552A (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 2 x 30 mm DEFA 552A cannons, belly-mounted (140 rpg = 280 total)
** 2 x 30 mm DEFA 552A cannons + 36 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

In terms of suspended weaponry, the Kfir Canard can carry AIM-9D or AIM-9G air-to-air missiles, FFAR Mighty Mouse or Zuni Mk.32 unguided rockets, 20 mm GAU-4 gunpods and a variety of 500, 750, 1,000, and 2,000 lb bomb options.

== Usage in battles ==

The Kfir Canard, like all other Kfirs in the Israeli tech tree, possesses a uniquely powerful motor relative to its size and weight, decent guns (when the Air targets belt is selected), mediocre if not situationally-acceptable missiles, and an ability to make sharp angular manoeuvres in a split second.

The Kfir Canard should be ideally played as a support fighter, using your powerful engine, light airframe, and superb though brief high angle-of-attack manoeuvring characteristics to benefit. Only housing a proximity radar to gauge distance to target (max range of 5 km), the Kfir Canard suffers immensely when pitted at long ranges against aircraft with radar missile capability. It is advised not to engage or present yourself as an easily-acquirable target when jets like the F-4s, F-14s, F-16s, and various MiG-23s and MiG-29s in particular have advanced radar missiles which will make quick work of the Kfir Canard. This is especially true when caught at altitude, given the Kfir Canards's reliance on IAS (indicated air speed, essentially the relative flow of air over the jet's wings useful for manoeuvring) for making sharp adjustments to dodge/engage targets. The Kfir Canard is a nimble jet (though very fragile on account of the wing configuration, as any damage to the wings will be very noticeable) and flies very similarly to a MiG-21, though in a slightly more extreme form.

The engine, essentially a singular copy-paste of the [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|F-4 Phantom]]'s in the US tree, offers strong flight characteristics in a straight line with exceptionally strong post-manoeuvre acceleration. However, the Kfir Canard's inability to hold energy when making even slight corrections necessitates a very calculated and metered approach to combat engagements. Unlike a Phantom or a heavier, more traditionally-configured aircraft, the Kfir Canard bleeds energy rapidly due to the delta wing configuration and doing so will leave you effectively defenseless against missiles commonly encountered at the BR range. Given the low number of flares (which depending on your flare selection, can either be launched in sets of 2 or 4, though selecting "Flares Reinforced" will drain your flare count very quickly in 9 uses), they should be used sparingly; only called upon when turning off the afterburner temporarily, pulling hard in 1-2 flight axis, and dropping flares in bursts. The J79 engine chews through fuel remarkable quickly, so it is advised that pilots take the full tank (26 mins), as even a full tank will last a very short time if afterburner is kept active throughout the flight. The Kfir Canard is extremely fast for its size, able to reach Mach 2 at high altitude in a brief time and able to accelerate to around Mach 1.15 - Mach 1.25 (at maximum, though not safely) on the deck, atmospheric conditions permitting.

The armament is slightly lacking however. While the 2 x 30 mm DEFA 552As have a decent amount of ammunition, acceptable ballistics, and consistent enough damage, the missiles leave a lot to be desired. With a maximum loadout of just 2 AIM-9Gs and no radar missiles (the plane lacks true radar to begin with), the Kfir Canard will not win many awards for missile performance, only really effective when dealing with unsuspecting enemies. With only 18Gs of overload and no real-front aspect capability, missile manoeuvrability remains mediocre compared to common counterparts. The AIM-9Gs can generally see through 1-2 sets of flares but can still easily be defeated with a few careful manoeuvres and flares. However, there are 2 semi-redeeming qualities the missiles have - long burn and tracking time (60 seconds) and a large missile locking circle. Additionally, players can choose to mount 2 x 20 mm M61 (GAU-4) gunpods, one under each wing, to augment the Kfir Canard's frontal fire saturation. This is a fairly viable tactic given the Kfir Canard's small (frontal) profile, and is effective against unsuspecting opponents who underestimate the head-on capability of a Kfir augmented in this way. There are various bombloads to be chosen from, though the most effective at taking out bases is the 6 x 1000 lb bomb loadout. Using this configuration, there are a total of 4 drops with the first and third presses of the bomb release. Only one pass on a base is needed with the 6 x 1000 lb bomb option to destroy it, although they must be dropped at Mach 1 or below, making you temporarily vulnerable. Various rocket, 2000lb bomb, 750lb bomb, 500lb bomb, and missile options exist, though they are limited in effectiveness in an Air RB setting.

Given the Kfir Canard's ability to carry bombs, it can be used with some success as a fighter bomber. Taking the 6 x 1000lb loadout with 2 x AIM-9Gs and bombing a base, then proceeding to engage preoccupied targets with your missiles and manoeuvring when needed is a viable strategy.

However, the Kfir Canard can also be used as a support fighter, engaging unsuspecting targets from above and behind when fighting jets that lack look-up radar capability. It is recommended to simply select the 2 x AIM-Gs for this purpose. After accelerating to Mach 1 off the runway, climbing at a 30-40 degree angle until ~8,000+ m and getting to speed will usually place you above the enemy team where you can then utilize the high altitude in combination with the thinner air and long missile burn time to destroy preoccupied enemies below. After netting a kill or two, moving in to engage singular targets is preferable to take advantage of the Kfir Canard's ridiculous ability to pull brief, high-G turns in getting the DEFAs on target.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Fantastic acceleration and top straight-line speed, can outrun most aircraft at it's BR on the deck.
* Ability to pull insanely high angle-of-attack manoeuvres for brief periods
* Decent and reliable cannons with good ammo count and options
* Good/great climb rate
* Versatile payload options
* Long missile burn time
* Very strong when paired with a coordinated team

'''Cons:'''

* No outstanding missiles
* Extremely fragile
* Bleeds speed and energy rapidly upon sustaining turning manoeuvres
* Limited flares/chaff (36)
* No access to tracking/search radar

== History ==

In the mid-1960s, as the requirements of Israel Air Force for a dedicated cost-reduction variant of Mirage III arose, Dassault Aviation designed Mirage 5 for their needs on defense against neighbouring countries. But after the complications of the late-1960s, Israeli also managed to built their own version of Mirage 5 known as the Nesher ("vulture") and they were built from September 1969 until 1974.

What replaced their production was a heavily-modified variant of Nesher with some aerodynamic changes on the tail and intake; although still being a delta-wing fighter, the new Kfir ("lion cub") based on a "technologist" prototype in October 1970. Then, later, the prototype model known as Ra'am B (Thunder B) powered by a licensed GE J79 engine made its maiden flight in June 1973. Serial production started in April 1975 and they was first seen in the Independence Day's parade in 14th May. Although the timespan of their production was rather short due to the introduction of the F-15A, later Kfir series have been the selected fighters of different countries such as Ecuador, Sri Lanka and oddly enough, the United States in USN/USMC service. As the need for fast adversary jets for the Navy arose, 25 Kfir C.1, known as F-21A in US service were leased from Israel in 1985 for such purpose which fitted the need for an adversary of MiG-23 (NATO: Flogger) due to its rather impressive acceleration yet subpar manoeuvrability. As the replacement for adversary jets of F-5Es came into service, they were then sent back to Israel in 1989 and examples of them can still be found in different places in Israel, as well as US Mainland.

The default delivery in-game represents the No. 703 of the 109th "Valley" Squadron of Israel Air Force (delivered as F-21 No.999703 of USN and returned to Israel in 1988<ref>https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1148469</ref>).

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=kfir_canard Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[Mirage 5 (Family)]]

== External links ==

''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''

* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''other literature.''

{{Israel jet aircraft}}
{{Israel premium aircraft}}
<references />

F-105D

2023-02-10T23:45:51Z

U91119932: /* History */

{{Specs-Card
|code=f-105d
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} American strike aircraft {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Winged Lions"]]. A nickname often associated with the {{PAGENAME}} was "Thud".

Like its contemporaries in the [[Su-7 (Family)|Su-7 family]], the {{PAGENAME}} is a strike aircraft designed for ordnance delivery at high speeds and low altitude, and its design reflects this, with powerful acceleration, excellent control authority at high speeds, good roll rate, and plentiful choices in bomb options. The {{PAGENAME}} also has a full range of ballistic computer programming, including CCIP for rockets, bombs and cannons, plus a CCRP function that uses its surprisingly capable AN/ASG-19 radar. While it lacks a true "lock" function, the gun has a radar-ranging gunsight as well as a Search and IFF function that allows it to at least see targets in front and above it to a relatively high degree of efficiency at ranges of up to 15 km. This allows it to see enemies to some extent, and plan ahead to avoid them. The F-105 was designed with nuclear strike in mind, and it performs best roaring through valleys and over hills at low altitude, reaching speeds of almost mach 1.2 when clean, and mach 1.05 with a full load of sixteen 750-pound M117 bombs. Famous for its use during Operation Rolling Thunder in Vietnam as the United States Air Force's main strike aircraft, the F-105, like the [[P-47 (Family)|P-47]] and [[F-84 (Family)|F-84]] that preceded it, has a reputation for being an aircraft capable of taking heavy punishment. However, it had several fatal flaws, including the lack of any standoff air-to-ground ordnance, the positioning of the fuel tanks directly above control cables and the at-times temperamental engine, the low-altitude, low-speed passes that it was forced to fly, and the doctrines of the time.

This fighter has chaff in pods, but does not have flares. It is vulnerable to the IR-guided air-to-air missiles (AAMs) that are prevalent at the battle rating range that it fights at, as well as the radar-guided anti-aircraft guns and the IR or Beam-riding Surface-to-Air Missiles (SAMs) it faces at its BR. This is offset by the roll rate and control authority, meaning that it can easily outroll or outmanoeuvre any rear-aspect AAM in-game except the [[Matra R550 Magic 1|Matra R.550 Magic]], which can only be outmanoeuvred with range and the assumption that the Magic's booster has shut off. Since it was designed to perform toss-bombing at high speeds on the deck, it also has the capability to pull surprisingly high Gs and turn/loop tighter than expected for an attack aircraft, managing turns of 12-13 Gs with empty bomb racks and 4 Sidewinders, or 13-14 G clean with 12 minutes of fuel left in the tank at around ~1,100 km/h, and still manages 10-11 G sustained turns above and below those speeds. Seeing as these speeds, fuel loads, and payloads are fairly standard conditions when turning away from a base to head home for more ordnance, or while tussling with MiGs over the battlefield, the {{PAGENAME}} makes for a capable dogfighter in its own right. Not many enemy pilots expect the {{PAGENAME}} to be capable of popping a 12 G sustained turn immediately after destroying a base, and even fewer expect it from an attacker glued onto their tail!

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 10,668 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,129 || 2,102 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 28.5 || 29.5 || 149.3 || 141.5 || rowspan="2" | 1,050
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,206 || 2,167 || 27.5 || 28.0 || 202.8 || 175.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,575  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 827 || 444 || ~12 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 720 || < 950 || < 800 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Pratt & Whitney J75-P-19W || 1
| colspan="2" | 12,675 kg || colspan="2" | 450 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel
|-
| 2,699 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 13,701 kg || 15,195 kg || 16,095 kg || 22,911 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 6,953 kgf || 9,868 kgf
| 0.72 || 0.65 || 0.61 || 0.43
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 6,953 kgf (0 km/h) || 13,161 kgf (1,200 km/h)
| 0.96 || 0.87 || 0.82 || 0.57
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

{{Notice
|'''IMPORTANT: This aircraft cannot carry flares.''' The countermeasure pods are AN/ALE-38/41 Chaff dispensers, which, unlike modern countermeasure pods or USN countermeasure systems, use neither a common calibre nor dispenser system as flares. The {{PAGENAME}} was never equipped with the AN/ALE-40 combined Chaff/Flare suite used on the [[F-4E Phantom II|F-4E]], nor the AN/ALE-29 chaff/flare dispenser used on the [[A-4 (Family)|A-4 Skyhawks]] and [[A-7 Corsair II (Family)|A-7 Corsairs]].
}}

* 12.7 mm armour plate behind the pilot.

Since the aircraft is so big, and has a considerable amount of interior space, gunfire will often pass through the empty innards of the aircraft. Single hits from 20 mm or 23 mm cannons such as the [[GSh-23L (23 mm)|Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23L]], [[Hispano Mk.V (20 mm)|Hispano Mk.V]], and [[Browning-Colt Mk12 Mod 0 (20 mm)|Browning-Colt Mk12 Mod 0]] will likely cause no damage other than slight damage to the wings or fuselage. Longer bursts with more hits will cause more serious damage that is likely to require repair at the airfield as soon as possible. Often, cannon bursts from the rear will destroy the engine and disable the tail control, forcing the pilot to bail out, but the wings, fuselage, and tail assembly will all stay attached to the plane until the aircraft slams into the ground. Theoretically, it is possible to control the aircraft entirely with flap input and throttle control without the elevator, but this requires almost ideal conditions that almost never occur. The {{PAGENAME}}, however, lends itself better to this than most aircraft, thanks to flaps that are large, tough, and durable, with rip speeds in excess of 800 km/h. The F-105's landing gear are also extremely durable, and due to their high height, allow slightly sharper and harder landing approaches than other aircraft, which can come in handy after shepherding a damaged aircraft back to base.

The {{PAGENAME}}'s tail control and elevators are particularly vulnerable to enemy fire, and even single hits that wouldn't even damage the fuselage or wings will likely cripple or seriously impair your tailplane. This is compounded by the fact that the {{PAGENAME}} has control cables for the tail in both the top and the bottom of the aircraft, and therefore is extremely vulnerable to enemy fire. Enemy missiles are almost guaranteed to destroy the tail control, wing control, or ignite the massive fuel tanks in the fuselage. {{PAGENAME}} pilots must take utmost care to dodge missiles or otherwise avoid confrontations where enemy missiles come into play, such as prolonged tail-chases in a target-rich environment.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|M61A1 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon, nose-mounted (1,028 rpg)

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|LDGP Mk 83 (1,000 lb)|LDGP Mk 84 (2,000 lb)|M118 (3,000 lb)}}{{main|AGM-12B Bullpup|AGM-12C Bullpup|AIM-9B Sidewinder|AIM-9E Sidewinder}}
{{main|FFAR Mighty Mouse|BLU-27/B incendiary}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles
* 4 x AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles
* 4 x AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles
* 76 x FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
* 4 x AGM-12B Bullpup missiles
* 2 x AGM-12C Bullpup missiles
* 16 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (8,000 lb total)
* 16 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (12,000 lb total)
* 9 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (9,000 lb total)
* 3 x 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs (6,000 lb total)
* 3 x 3,000 lb M118 bombs (9,000 lb total)
* 8 x BLU-27/B incendiary bombs
* 32 x chaff

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="9%" | 1 !! width="9%" | 2 !! width="9%" | 3 !! width="9%" | 4 !! width="9%" | 5
| rowspan="14" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs
| 1 || 4 || 6 || 4 || 1
|-
! 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs
| 1 || 4 || 6 || 4 || 1
|-
! 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs
| 1 || 2 || 3 || 2 || 1
|-
! 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! 3,000 lb M118 bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! BLU-27/B incendiary bombs
| 1 || 2 || 2 || 2 || 1
|-
! FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
| 19 || 19 || || 19 || 19
|-
! AGM-12B Bullpup missiles
| 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1
|-
! AGM-12C Bullpup missiles
| || 1 || || 1 ||
|-
! AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles
| 1, 2 || || || || 1, 2
|-
! AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles
| 2 || || || || 2
|-
! Chaff
| 16 || || || || 16
|-
| colspan="6" | Maximum permissible loadout weight: 5,800 kg
|-
|}

;Summary & Recommendations

The {{PAGENAME}} carries a range of bombs, but the payloads an {{PAGENAME}} pilot will often use are:

* 16 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (12,000 lb total)

:This payload is best for bombing bases. It takes seven M117 bombs to destroy a base at 9.7, and with 16 bombs, dropping in 5 pairs of 2 and 6 individual drops, an {{PAGENAME}} can easily pickle off four pairs of bombs (8 total) before using the remaining ones to destroy another base, lighting the afterburner, and heading for home.

* 14 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs + 4 x AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles (10,500 lb total)

:This payload is one of the best for bombing bases and then switching into an air-to-air role. The AIM-9E missiles are capable against aircraft that are slow, and useful for causing faster aircraft to manoeuvre to avoid them, forcing them to lose speed and giving you a chance to close the gap.

* 6 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs + 2 x 3,000 lb M118 bombs + 4 x AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles (10,500 lb total)

:One of the single most effective payloads, this may be used as a substitute for the above payload if a pilot dislikes having to pickle off eight bombs individually, as now, with a single push of a button, two M118s come sliding off the rails. These two bombs combined are more than enough for a base, but are also effective in their own right as capture-point clearing bombs, or for destroying aircraft staying on the airfield near the end of a match. Campers beware!

* 6 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs + 2 x AGM-12C Bullpup missiles + 4 x AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles (4,500 lb total)

:Two heavy-duty bullpups and four Sidewinders make for a powerful punch against both ground and air targets. The M117s are there merely as additional ordnance, and may be jettisoned where necessary for a cleaner aircraft, or used against enemy targets.

[[File:F-105 in hangar.png|thumb|524x524px|Loaded for bear — an {{PAGENAME}} in the hangar, loaded with fourteen M117 demolition bombs, and four AIM-9Es on the outboard pylons. Note the size when compared to the ~1.8 metre-tall mechanics.]]
The LDGP Mark 82 500 lb bombs provided stock and the AGM-12B/Sidewinder combinations serve no purpose once spaded. The Mark 82 can quickly be replaced by the extremely effective M117, which bomb-for-bomb provides the most effective bombing option, since it carries the most TNT for its weight. In addition to this, the Thunderchief carries as many M117s as it does Mark 82s, and also has far more available ordnance options that pair M117s together with other weapons, such as Bullpups. The AGM-12B and Sidewinder/Chaff pod combinations allow for a maximum of two AGM-12Bs, a full rack of bombs on the centreline, and four AIM-9B/Es. Once the AGM-12C has been unlocked, carrying these combinations is useless, since the AGM-12C is superior in every metric, and given the limit on how many Bullpups can be carried with AIM-9s, it's more useful to carry the larger missile rather than the smaller one.

Something to consider is that more experienced players may find Mark 83 effectively redundant, as the M117s that precede them in the modifications menu carry nearly 210 kg of TNT equivalent, and the F-105 can carry more of them than Mark 83s. While at first, the Mk 83's additional 66 kg of TNT equivalent (for a total of 276 kg per thousand-pound bomb) may seem like an improvement, the M117 has nearly identical fragment dispersion/vehicle destruction radii, as well as only 7 mm less armour penetration. Coupled with the aircraft's ballistic computer for precision-bombing, experienced pilots shouldn't need the extra explosive mass to destroy a ground target, and since on a single hardpoint, the F-105 carries more M117s than Mark 83s (4-6 as opposed to 3 for the Mark 83), even novice pilots may find it easier to use the M117, since they have more M117s to drop. Pilots will also find it easier to acquire the M117 than the Mark 83 on this aircraft, as M117s are available as a Tier I modification, while Mark 83s are in Tier II, and the Thunderchief has far more Tier II modifications that should take a higher priority over the Mark 83, such as New Boosters or AIM-9Bs.

Chaff is not advisable for the {{PAGENAME}}. At this battle rating, the {{PAGENAME}} faces mostly IR missiles, and given its flight performance, pilots must rely on manoeuvring alone to defeat the [[AIM-9B]]s, [[AIM-9E]]s, [[R-3S]]s, and [[AIM-9G]]s that are typical to planes around the 8.7-9.7 BR range, as well as the occasional [[R-60]], [[AIM-9J]]/[[RB24J]], and rare [[AIM-7C Sparrow|AIM-7C]], [[AIM-7D]] and [[AIM-7E]] Sparrows that it can face from time to time. All of these missiles can be defeated with appropriate manoeuvring and avoidance of enemy aircraft, making chaff pods entirely redundant, and just something that takes up more space on a hard point that could be used by a bomb, missile, or rocket pod. However, in Ground RB, chaff may be useful in temporarily spoofing early missile and gun SPAA. That said, no SPAA at that BR is entirely radar-based, and most radar-based SPAAGs use their radar to determine only a target solution rather than guide any sort of weapon. For instance, the most common anti-aircraft missile systems in Ground RB — the [[Roland 1]], [[Type 93]], [[Ozelot]], [[2S6]], and [[ADATS]] — all use either IR guidance or a form of semi-active beam-riding guidance that completely ignores chaff.

Four AGM-12Bs is the maximum amount of guided ordnance that the {{PAGENAME}} can carry, if a pilot requires a lot of guided missiles to take out tanks in Ground RB. Due to the ballistic computer, it is often better to take bombs instead, since you can drop from higher up and on different flight profiles where enemy tanks and SPAAs do not expect air attack.

The Mighty Mouse FFARs that it receives are effective, but slightly underpowered compared to the [[Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP|Zunis]], [[S-8KO|S-8s]], [[S-24]]s, [[S-25O|S-25s]] and [[psrak m/70|13.5 cm m/70]] that other similar aircraft in and around its battle rating receive. The LAU-3s cannot be used with AIM-9Es, bombs, or any other payloads outside of either on their own or with chaff. This makes bringing FFARs a sub-par option compared to other ordnance options already available for the F-105D Thunderchief.

== Usage in battles ==

The F-105 is an extremely versatile aircraft. Used in a bombing role, typically designated by either "A for Attack" or "B for Bomber", the F-105 in fact excels at both air-to-ground and air-to-air roles, though the aircraft is typically less successful in the latter than the former.

=== Against air targets ===
While the F-105 is classified as an attacker, the aircraft lends itself well to air-to-air work. The aircraft, however, requires basic knowledge on how to fly jets in energy-fighting manoeuvres. Its armament, size, and speed lend it well to destroying enemy targets by pressing its sheer advantage in speed — not many aircraft at its battle rating exceed Mach 1.1 in level flight, and even less while still having a sizeable payload onboard.

[[File:F-105 Turning And Burning.mp4|thumb|F-105 in a sustained ~11-12G turn at sea level.]]

'''On the offensive'''

The F-105's best advantage is in its speed and considerably powerful engine. The aircraft has good energy retention and turning performance at speed, thanks to the nuclear toss-bombing flight profile that the aircraft was designed for. The F-105 does not have any issue with using this ability to loop rapidly at high speed in the vertical by turning quickly and at high Gs in the horizontal. Managing around 12Gs in a sustained turn beginning at Mach 1.0, the F-105 has performance entirely unexpected from a single-engined attacker of its size at its battle rating. F-105Ds also possess strengthened wing spars that earlier variants did not, and unlike said earlier variants, will not tear its wings in sustained manoeuvres very easily. Managing up to 13Gs, and up to fourteen Gs in rare cases, the F-105's large, strong wings grant it energy retention in addition to roll rate, and the swept-wing construction makes it one of the faster-accelerating aircraft at its battle rating- more than enough to match more nimble [[MiG-19 (Family)|MiG-19s]] and [[MiG-21 (Family)|MiG-21s]] at certain speeds.

The F-105 has the option to carry four AIM-9s of either the [[AIM-9B Sidewinder|AIM-9B]] or [[AIM-9E]] type. While these missiles are unimpressive in terms of performance when compared to the [[R.550]] or [[R-60]] that this aircraft faces, they are nonetheless useful. The AIM-9E is a direct upgrade to the AIM-9B that includes a wider seeker FOV thanks to the seeker's ability to uncage and track a target slightly before launch, making it more useful than the AIM-9B in a dogfight. However, the most useful air-to-air asset by far is the gun, which has a generous supply of ammunition available to it. Most F-105 air-to-air victories in Vietnam were made with the gun, and the same holds true in-game. You'll find that many enemies don't expect fast opposition coming back at them from the direction that their airfield is in, which is where you'll be after letting off your bombloads and presumably evading detection by the enemy until that point. Since the aircraft can manage above average speed, pilots will find the F-105 attuned to the doctrine of energy fighting. However, they will also find that the F-105 can turn with its enemies where necessary, and accelerate to regain speed rapidly afterwards, meaning that using turns, loops and otherwise engaging in a dogfight may sometimes be more desirable than simple boom-and-zoom methods. However, F-105 pilots should remember that the aircraft is not designed to get into close-in dogfights. Making mistakes, such as bleeding too much energy, will only turn the F-105D into a slow, large target to be easily hit in a furball engagement.

'''On the defensive'''

The {{PAGENAME}} is extremely survivable. The size of the aircraft means that the aircraft can shrug off damage to its airframe and wings easily and keep flying, and it is easy to glide back to base when out of fuel or damaged. The Thud has a chance to put out fires in its spinal fuel tanks, but due to its position above the engine, if the rear fuel tank gets set on fire, the engine will likely burn down with it. However, the {{PAGENAME}} is good at gliding home and back to base even when the engine is down or after sustaining heavy damage. The pilot lacks protection from the front and sides, and the aircraft lacks any sort of protection for fuel tanks, engine, control cables and control surfaces, unlike its well-armoured stablemate, the A-7 Corsair II. The aircraft can lose a wingtip and a tail fin, but still make it home to base and glide in for a landing. The gears are extremely durable and lend themselves well to rough landing, and the high ground clearance allows the aircraft a better chance of avoiding a tail strike in a high-speed landing.

The size of the aircraft is a double-edged sword, as enemy missiles are almost guaranteed to go off when in proximity to the aircraft. Dodging high-G missiles can become a hassle as while rolling the aircraft and jinking are the most effective methods of taking missiles off your tail, they also increase the surface area that is presented to the proxy fuse. Smaller, more manoeuvrable missiles such as [[R-60]]s and [[SRAAM]]s have an extremely slim chance to detonate even after you appear to have "dodged" it since the proximity fuse is still live after the missile loses its lock.

All of these pale in comparison to its speed, roll rate, and acceleration. Few aircraft possess the {{PAGENAME}}'s aptitude for speed. Only higher-BR aircraft it sees in full uptiers, such as the [[MiG-21SMT]] and the [[MiG-21MF (Germany)|MiG-21MF]], [[F-104 (Family)|F-104 Starfighters]] and [[F-4F Early|F-4F(e)s]] have the ability to keep up with it. Speed is a form of protection in and of itself, since the {{PAGENAME}} can simply jettison its ordnance and run away from whatever it doesn't want to face. However, loading heavy payloads like the bombs required to destroy bases leech away at its speed, and thus speed is only really an option when running the aircraft with AIM-9Es only, or completely clean.

Thanks to the roll rate, the F-105D is able to quickly roll to dodge enemy gunfire, and also enemy missiles. The latter is essential, given the fact that the F-105D never carried any flares, and will never receive flares due to never carrying any such countermeasures in real life. A basic manoeuvre to avoid air-to-air missiles is a snap roll, with or without afterburner, performed by pitching up and rolling/yawing into the same direction. This will cause the aircraft to begin a high-G barrel roll that can reach up to 14Gs, and is effective at losing even the trickiest of opponents. Less advanced air-to-air missiles can be dodged by just turning a little, and given that high-G barrel rolls bleed speed from the aircraft, it's important to know the range and performance envelopes of the enemy aircraft before picking your manoeuvre — turn, high-g barrel roll, or simply levelling off and out-speeding the missile.

=== Against ground targets ===
While the {{PAGENAME}} can carry up to four air-to-ground guided missiles, it can only do this with four AGM-12Bs. This load is hardly optimal, particularly since with the ballistic computer, bombs might be far more effective anyhow. The {{PAGENAME}} does get AGM-12Cs, but only two of them. Keep in mind that with this payload, you cannot carry AIM-9Es for self-defense, nor chaff for spoofing radar. While still able to destroy ground targets, this payload's effectiveness is sometimes questionable in the face of the other payloads this versatile aircraft is capable of carrying. When carrying AIM-9Es or chaff pods, the amount of air-to-ground missiles that the aircraft is able to carry drops to two. The aircraft can only carry two AGM-12s and AIM-9Es with bombs, meaning that using combined loads of AGM-12Bs and missiles/chaff is entirely moot once AGM-12Cs are unlocked and available to the player. The {{PAGENAME}} lacks any fire-and-forget air-to-ground ordnance, as well as any kind of good stand-off ordnance to use against SPAAs. This means that aircraft is vulnerable to enemy SPAA armaments since novice pilots will have to fly low in order to use the bombs, the AGM-12s require constant attention to hit moving targets, and the aircraft lacks any sort of standoff ordnance to use against AAA while staying at an appreciable distance away.

The {{PAGENAME}} is equipped with a full range of ballistic computer functionality. The Constantly Computed Impact Point (CCIP) function helps show the pilot where bombs and rockets will go when released. The Constantly Computed Release Point (CCRP) function that uses the powerful onboard radar system to paint a target on the ground, and it gives the pilot an alert when "release authority" is handed over at a point where if the bomb is dropped, the projectile will hit the target selected. The CCRP system is effective at any altitude, but requires the pilot to have good timing and knowledge of the system being used. The CCIP system is also useable from most altitudes, but is most effective in dives below 1,000 m altitude, meaning that the pilot will have to fly low, exposing themselves to enemy fire as a result. While this is not usually a problem in Air RB, in Ground RB, where ground-based Short-Range Air Defense (SHORAD) is present, the aircraft is particularly vulnerable to radar-assisted gun AAA, enemy IR/beam-riding SAMs, and main cannons. Despite this vulnerability, the aircraft is extremely tough and survivable. AI anti-aircraft fire will often only be a minor annoyance, and player-launched surface-to-air missiles can be either dodged or avoided with clever tactics and positioning. In addition to that, the aircraft's size means that sometimes, bullets and shells will only hit non-essential components, such as the large, empty bomb bay for nuclear bombs in the centre of the plane.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Good acceleration
* Effective control authority at speeds in excess of ~700 km/h
* Takeoff flaps have a high rip speed (~823 km/h)
* Powerful M61 Vulcan cannon with large ammo pool
* Excellent range of ground attack payloads with a ballistic computer
* Can be equipped with 4 x AIM-9E air-to-air missiles
* Has a radar with IFF capabilities and a fast search rate

'''Cons:'''

* High stall speed makes manoeuvring and landing at slow speeds difficult
* Countermeasures only include chaff and will replace AAMs if equipped
* Extremely high fuel consumption on afterburner: requires careful management of fuel on minimum or 20 minutes fuel load
* Manoeuvrability and overall flight performance significantly suffers with a full bombload

== History ==
[[File:RF-84F.jpg|thumb|A USAF Thunderflash, somewhere over the continental US.]]
The F-105 Thunderchief is an American supersonic fighter-bomber that served during the Vietnam war. Originally an advanced derivative of the RF-84F, the F-105 was a large attack aircraft designed for both nuclear and conventional strike. F-105s would see extensive service in Vietnam as the USAF's primary attack aircraft until high loss rates forced it to be retired from active service. A total of 833 aircraft were built.

The Thunderchief comes from an illustrious family of aircraft, all developed by Seversky, which later would become Republic Aviation. Starting from the early P-35, the aircraft later evolved into the [[P-43A-1|P-43]], an early propeller aircraft developed into the far larger and more powerful [[P-47 (Family)|P-47 Thunderbolt]]. As the Jet Age approached, the P-47 was converted to Jet Propulson, and the [[F-84 (Family)]] was born out of that conversion, beginning with early models such as [[F-84B-26|F-84Bs]]. These were found to be severely underpowered, and the later extended-fuselage F-84E and [[F-84G-21-RE|F-84G]] added a more powerful and more reliable J-35 turbojet. Soon afterwards, the F-84 would be given swept wings, and a much-improved engine, and this design work was laid out the basis for what would eventually become the F-105 Thunderchief.

[[File:AP-63.jpg|thumb|Concept art by Republic of Advanced Project Nº 63.]]

;A Repurposed Thunderflash: The F-105's Origins

The F-105 originated as an internal project of the RF-84F Thunderflash photo-reconnaissance aircraft, featuring the same wing-mounted engine intake system. First begun in 1951, initial design work resembled an enlarged RF-84 with an integral bomb bay in the middle of the aircraft. [[F-84G-21-RE|F-84Gs]] in Tactical Air Command service had been the first fighter aircraft in the world able to carry nuclear bombs, and the first aircraft able to conduct in-flight refuelling- and one of the scant few aircraft designed to be able to refuel by both probe-and-drogue and boom systems. However, this aircraft had merely only been an interim while TAC waited for the [[F-84F]] to enter production, and as such, it was based on a previous variant- the F-84E, but also incorporated many of the technologies expected to be on the F-variant. While the E/G variants closely resembled the [[F-84B-26|F-84B]] in general shape, the F-84F was a radical departure, incorporating a high sweepback and more hardpoints for increased weapons carriage. The RF-84F was an even more radical departure from the previously established F-84 formula, including wing root intakes and a rounded nose for the cameras that it was required to carry in its photoreconnaissance role. While the F-84G/F enjoyed success in Korea and in peacetime European service, Republic Aviation started a new project for a much-improved aircraft based on the RF-84F's design work. Incorporating the same nose shape but with a radar inside, an enlarged centre-section capable of internally carrying a nuclear bomb, and incorporating the same wing-root intakes, the aircraft design called "Advanced Project Nº 63" (AP-63) resembled a much-enlarged RF-84.

;Teething Problems & Shattering Expectations: The F-105's Early Years

The F-105B entered service with the USAF in August of 1958. The aircraft was also snapped up by the Thunderbirds, who desired a high-speed, high performance aircraft for their team, but tragedy struck in their first live show performed with the Thud when one of their aircraft simply exploded mid-air. Contracts for low-rate initial production were awarded to Republic in 1952 and 1953 for a total of 199 aircraft, with initial delivery scheduled for 1955. However, shifting requirements for the aircraft resulted in the project being delayed and contracts being cancelled until a solid contract was signed in February 1955 for 15 aircraft. These 15 aircraft were for two "YF-105A" evaluation aircraft, three "RF-105B" reconnaissance aircraft, and ten production "F-105Bs". In a testament to the survivability of the aircraft that would be proven later in combat, the first F-105B's landing gear failed to extend during the end of its first flight due to suction that kept the gear bay doors sealed shut. The pilot had to belly in, which he did with considerable skill, and funnily enough, when he walked away from the aircraft, the Thunderchief belatedly popped its landing-gear doors open. The aircraft in question was repaired and back in the air within six weeks. The USAF Tactical Air Command (TAC) had a full squadron of Thunderchiefs in service by mid-1959. On 11 December 1959, Brigadier General Joseph Moore, commander of the 4th Tactical Fighter Wing, set a world speed record of 1,958.53 km/h (1,216 mph) over a 100 km closed course in an F-105B. The F-105D variant began to supplant and replace F-105Bs in frontline units between 1960 and 1965. During testing in June of 1961, the F-105 delivered 7 tons of bombs, the largest bombload ever carried by a single-engine fighter. In the spring of 1964, the Thunderbirds, looking for a new high-performance jet to replace their F-100As, chose the F-105B as their mount. After modifying the aircraft to suit their needs, including strengthening the airframe, the F-105 would go on to perform in only 6 airshows before being pulled out of their service in favour of F-100s. During the final airshow, in a "pitch up" manoeuvre, an F-105 piloted by Cpt. Gene Devlins simply disintegrated mid-air after entering the pitch-up, forcing the Air Force to re-evaluate the Thunderchief's use by the acrobatics team, subsequently replacing their F-105Bs with [[F-100D|F-100D Super Sabres]] once more. F-105Bs would be entirely retired by the end of 1965, and the much-improved F-105D would replace them, which also incorporated strengthened wing spars. Project ''Look Alike'' would endeavour to fix problems with the routing of wires, mechanical cables and hydraulics piping, and would be implemented in 1962-1964 on the Thunderchief fleet, just in time for their combat service in Vietnam.[[File:Thunderbirds-F105-diamond.jpg|thumb|Thud Thunderbirds: F-105Bs in diamond formation in service with the Thunderbirds during its brief stint in their service in '64.]]
[[File:F-105D in flight with bombs.jpg|thumb|An F-105D in flight over Vietnam with a full load of 750 lb bombs.]]

;Rolling into Combat: Operation Rolling Thunder & Vietnam

The F-105 would soon see active combat in the Vietnam war, where it served as the USAF's primary attack aircraft. The F-105s would eventually fly over 20,000 combat missions in Vietnam, and despite its large and unwieldy airframe, shoot down 27 Vietnamese MiGs. 24 of these aircraft were shot down using the F-105's internal Vulcan cannon.

However, F-105s in Vietnam suffered from an extremely high loss rate. The F-105 had the unfortunate distinction of being the only American aircraft to have been removed from combat due to high loss rates, being replaced in its ground attack role by the [[F-4E Phantom II|F-4]] Phantom II and F-111 Aardvark. Of 833 total F-105s produced, 382 aircraft were lost, 17 to enemy fighters, but mostly to ground anti-aircraft fire and maintenance issues. This loss rate, however, is less indicative of the aircraft's ability, but more a testament to doctrine and the aircraft's environment. The F-105 was the most-used aircraft during Operation Rolling Thunder- even more so than the F-4C that had only recently entered service. Given that the aircraft flew the most sorties, it was also the aircraft that would, naturally, take the most loss numbers. Due to the rate at which aircraft were being thrown into the Vietnamese Air Defenses, the aircraft suffered correspondingly high losses to the point that the US Air Force contemplated restarting the F-105 production line in Farmingdale, Long Island, but ultimately decided against it, as there were no export customers for the aircraft, and there were replacements just over the horizon- including the results of the TFX program, the soon-to-be-famous F-111.

Ground anti-aircraft fire was an inevitable part of flying into an air defence system. Designed to fly low and fast attack profiles, with not many provisions for high-altitude bombing, the F-105 needed to dive-bomb its targets with conventional bombs, with the pilot required to keep the target in sight of a depressible mil sight in the cockpit at all times. This resulted in pilots being forced into low, slow, and fatally predictable flight profiles when entering a bomb drop. The arc that the F-105s would fly in order to get close in to the target was an extremely easy target for Vietnamese anti-aircraft gunners. While the "Thunderstick-II" upgrade, developed in the late 60s, would allow the F-105 to bomb its targets from higher up using a set of new avionics that went in a spinal bulge (much like the [[MiG-21SMT|MiG-21SMT's]] spine fuel tank), these aircraft, mostly older D-5 and D-10 models, would never see combat, and the upgrades were deemed too costly to roll out to the entire remaining number of F-105s available, which were all soon to retire.

The most common issues were related to the F-105's J75 engine, which simply had not been designed for missions in the envelopes that the F-105s were expected to fly, burning at full military for extended periods of time without overhaul. Since the F-105 had been designed with the Tactical Nuclear Strike role in mind, with its afterburners on full in what was essentially a one-way suicide mission, it had been designed to be the fastest thing flying with a nuclear bomb inside the ventral bomb bay. The J75 had not been designed with long operating hours in mind, since the expectation had been that it would be used a few times in combat prior to being either shot down, disposed of, or otherwise never used again. This resulted in many issues with the jet blade, including cracks in the compressor blades that turned the inside of the engine into a mess of hot metal where the fragmenting blades would shatter, spreading fragments backwards into the engine as they went, causing what appeared to the pilot as a mere engine fire, but was only the precursor to a violent explosion when the fragmenting blades set fire to the initially completely unprotected fuel tanks.

The fuel tanks had been another oversight in the F-105's design- the initial flight profile of low-altitude tactical nuclear strike did not have high projected survivability rates, and for the sake of speed and also the fact that the F-105 wasn't likely to return anyway, the aircraft's massive fuselage fuel tanks, arranged above the engine and bomb bay, were not self sealing. Many flak and SAM losses due to fires stemmed from the punctured fuel tanks leaking fuel all over the hot J75 engine, resulting in the aircraft burning down in flight. Upgrades to the fuel tank, including the addition of self-sealing liners, managed to somewhat rectify the issue, but never completely- no upgrade save for a complete redesign or an entirely new design would solve the issue that the F-105's entire internal fuel load was carried in tanks that were mounted in the top of the fuselage and above the engine.

Another issue encountered was that the sudden loss of hydraulic oil pressure resulted in the tailplane locking into a "pitch down" position, as well as losing the Stability Augmentation system, a vital component of such a large, heavy aircraft that allowed pilots to keep it under control. A switch was later added to mechanically lock the F-105's tailplane into a stable, "neutral" position, but again, this was only a partial fix- the hydraulics issue would never really be overcome throughout its service life.

;Sunset Service

Aircraft of the F-105G "Wild Weasel" suppression of enemy air defence (SEAD) variant remained in service until the end of the Vietnam war, after which they were replaced by the F-4G Wild Weasel IV. F-105s grew increasingly difficult to maintain in the 1970s, resulting in their accelerated retirement. The last F-105Ds in South-East Asia left by 1970, before Operation Linebacker began, and twin-seat F-105Fs and Gs would soldier on into the 80s before retiring. The final flight of any F-105 was by the Air Force Reserve 466th Tactical Fighter Squadron, in 1984, and afterwards, the F-105 slipped quietly into retirement. Most F-105s had their tails sliced off by guillotine to prevent their use elsewhere. 105 complete F-105 airframes are known to survive into this day, though none remain airworthy, and are mostly in the continental US, though a few remain in places like Nellis, McConnel, Kadena and Spangdahlem as monuments to when Thuds were deployed to those bases. The rest are in museums and other such places to live the rest of their lives out as retired warbirds.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=f-105d Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|4H9GuHPLOcs|'''The Shooting Range #283''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:28 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==

''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''

* ''reference to the series of the aircraft;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

== External links ==


* [https://www.avialogs.com/aircraft-r/republic/item/5054-f-105d-thunderchief-standard-aircraft-characteristics-16-july-1959 <nowiki>[Avialogs]</nowiki> Standard Aircraft Characteristics of the F-105D]

=== References ===

* National Air and Space Museum. (n.d.). "Republic F-105D Thunderchief". Smithsonian. Retrieved December 24, 2021, from <nowiki>https://www.si.edu/object/republic-f-105d-thunderchief%3Anasm_A19820064000</nowiki>
* Swopes, B. (2021, August 10). "10 August 1961". This Day in Aviation. Retrieved December 24, 2021, from <nowiki>https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/10-august-1961/</nowiki>

{{AirManufacturer Republic}}
{{USA jet aircraft}}

J-7E

2023-01-01T17:31:45Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Chinese jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other MiG-21 versions
| link = MiG-21 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=j_7e
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
|cockpit=Cockpit_j_7e.jpg
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Chinese jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Red Skies"]].

Based on the already well-developed [[J-7II]] and its modifications (J-7IIH/B/M; C/D), the J-7E offers a very different way to upgrade a [[MiG-21 (Family)|Fishbed]] from the Soviet approach - not only does it have a more powerful engine and additional fuel, it also comes with the iconic Chinese Fishbed's double-delta wing with slats, making it a formidable competitor in terms of overall manoeuvrability and especially at lower speeds, which no Soviet Fishbed can ever offer. With its newer PL-5B missile and large countermeasure capacity, the J-7E can prove its abilities over its competitors and use its amazing manoeuvrability to dominate close-quarters engagements in the hands of a good pilot.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

The J-7E's airframe looks similar to the [[J-7II]] aside from the double delta wings, having a small nose and a thin fuselage spine like the early [[MiG-21F-13]] the J-7II was developed from. This contrasts with the Soviet MiG-21s, where from the [[MiG-21PFM]] onward, the noses and fuselage spines were enlarged to house search radars and hold additional fuel, respectively. To compensate for the increased weight and aerodynamic penalties, Soviet designers installed increasingly powerful engines. Even though the J-7E's new WP-13F (reverse engineered R-13-300 with some newer technologies) engine lags behind the [[MiG-21SMT]] and [[MiG-21bis]]'s engines in terms of maximum thrust, the J-7E actually weighs less than the [[MiG-21MF (Germany)|MiG-21MF]] and can make the most of its engine power. The acceleration and climb are not on the level of the legendary MiG-21bis but still competitive for a top rank fighter.

Thanks to the new engine and the slat-equipped double-delta wings, the J-7E has one of the most impressive manoeuvrability among all the current top-tier aircraft. The turn time is a whopping 29 seconds even when stock in RB, leaving most its competitors (other than F-5 family) behind by at least 3 seconds. Low-speed manoeuvrability and high-speed energy retention are greatly improved, addressing long-standing issues with the Fishbed family and presenting a pleasant surprise to new pilots. It is possible to make sustained high-G turns at above 1,000 km/h IAS without losing much airspeed at all and maintain good nose authority during spiral climbs or dogfights at near-stall speeds. The slats still work at 900 km/h, which helps with gun snapshots or missile leading at high speeds. The wing loading is lower than most contemporaries other than the [[J35D]] and [[Mirage IIIC]], which feature full tailless delta wings. The J-7E is very solid in close combat and can compete with Mirages and F-5s while dancing around heavier aircraft like [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|Phantoms]].

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 12,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,187 || 2,156 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 28.5 || 29.0 || 153.3 || 144.6 || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,255 || 2,230 || 27.3 || 28.2 || 187.2 || 178.5
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 525 || 450 || ~11 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 650 || < 600 || < 790 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Shenyang Liming WP-13F || 1
| colspan="2" | 5,712 kg || colspan="2" | 310 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel
|-
| 1,200 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 6,306 kg || 7,176 kg || 7,692 kg || 9,500 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 27m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 4,100 kgf || 6,666 kgf
| 1.06 || 0.93 || 0.87 || 0.70
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 4,100 kgf (0 km/h) || 7,132 kgf (1,200 km/h)
| 1.13 || 0.99 || 0.93 || 0.75
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


The J-7E comes with a 10 mm plate behind pilot's head and a 16 mm plate behind the ejection seat. While it doesn't prove to be much of a concern of cannons, it does help to stop some smaller-calibre gunfire. There is also a 60 mm windshield that is durable enough to take some shots than all the remaining part of the aircraft. The armour still doesn't count for much considering that top-tier aircraft primarily rely on missiles and tend to have very powerful guns, so avoid being hit.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|Type 30-1 (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 30 mm Type 30-1 cannon, belly-mounted (60 rpg)
** 1 x 30 mm Type 30-1 cannon + 72 x countermeasures

Because the addition of a new fuel tank to the lower left side of the aircraft and compensation for the weight of newer missiles, unlike its predecessor, the J-7E has only a single Type 30-1 cannon on the starboard side. It does have good ballistics and firepower (a few hits will rip apart most aircraft), but for pilots without good aiming skills the stingy 60-round ammo capacity will be very painful. Experienced pilots may prefer it over the 23 mm cannon used by most Soviet Fishbeds due to its accuracy and stopping power. In SB, the J-7E comes with a HUD and the ranging radar is linked to it, making it somewhat useful to track down enemies and gun them down with a bit more precision. However, pilots do need to compensate the offset of the starboard gun and aim a bit towards the left when shooting at closer ranges.

Belt selection is largely up to personal taste but the "Armoured Targets" belt is generally the most consistent, often dealing hefty kinetic damage to enemy aircraft. The APHE rounds have decent penetration but it is not advised to use the gun against ground targets in mixed battles; they can be effective against thinly armoured targets, but the limited ammunition should be reserved for aircraft and going on gun runs is very dangerous against top-tier SPAA vehicles.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|250-3 (250 kg)|500-3 (500 kg)|Type 90-1|Type 130-2}}
{{main|PL-2|PL-5B}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x PL-5B missiles
* 4 x PL-2 missiles
* 4 x PL-5B missiles
* 16 x Type 130-2 rockets
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
* 4 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg 500-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" width="100%" style="text-align:center"
|-
! !! width="12%" | 1 !! width="12%" | 2 !! width="12%" | 3 !! width="12%" | 4
| rowspan="7" width="25%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! 250 kg 250-3 bombs
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! 500 kg 500-3 bombs
| || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! Type 90-1 rockets
| 7 || 7 || 7 || 7
|-
! Type 130-2 rockets
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 4
|-
! PL-2 missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! PL-5B missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
|}

The J-7E has a lot of ordnance options to choose from. The PL-5B is the first competitive missile available to any PLAAF fighter in War Thunder and is a strong selling point of the J-7E compared to its predecessors. It has a 30 G overload, a wide acquisition radius, and strong acceleration, making it one of the most effective rear-aspect missiles in War Thunder. The absence of launch limiter on the PL-5B means that you can fire as soon as the target is within the acquisition radius. The J-7E lacks any radar-guided or all-aspect missiles and cannot surprise targets in head-on engagements.

The J-7E's ordnance improvements are not limited to air-to-air combat. For ground attack, it has access to 250 kg and 500 kg bombs like the J-7II, but it now uses much improved Type 90-1 and Type 130-2 rockets as seen on the [[Q-5A]] instead of the weak 57 mm HF-5 rockets. The 90 mm Type 90-1 rockets are equivalents of the US FFAR rockets and nothing special. The 130 mm Type 130-2 rockets have HE warheads and direct impacts will easily dispatch light tanks and SPAAs. Against top-tier MBTs, accurate hits to the turret and hull roof armour will work the best, as side impacts can be inconsistent. The J-7E's ballistic computer makes it much easier to aim the rockets accurately.

The J-7E can also carry 250 kg and 500 kg bombs. The ballistic computer's CCIP and CCRP functionality allows them to be used to good effect in mixed battles in the absence of enemy air defense.

== Usage in battles ==


The J-7E is something like a hybrid between a MiG-21 and an F-5 in terms of flight performance and role. It obviously is an evolution of the Fishbed and enjoys many of the MiG-21's strengths in top speed, acceleration, and climb. At the same time, the new design corrects many of the MiG-21's vices and it ends up being a very nimble dogfighter that can turn well and maintain its energy like an F-5. This gives it flexibility in terms of how to approach combat. At the beginning of a match, the J-7E can sideclimb and make its way to medium or high altitude, then cruise into battle at supersonic speeds. Distracted targets at similar altitudes are prime missile targets. When it is time to join the furballs below, the J-7E can swoop in on vulnerable targets and put its agility to use.

Gunning straight into battle at lower altitudes from the start of a match, which is customary for Fishbeds, is also an option. Start to "patrol" for anyone who is possibly in their tunnel vision (where a person has only a little FOV due to his speed), then go ahead and assault them with your powerful PL-5B AAMs. They can make short work of the enemies with their 30G overload and excellent acceleration. If you only have PL-2s, which are barely better than no missiles, or even worse, only the cannon left, be very cautious on when should you fire a burst or launch the missiles. If you wasted the chance, pilots could meet their demise pretty quick if your team is on the disadvantage. And it should be reminded that unless really necessary or it is one-on-one dual with your enemy, in most cases do not dogfight for very long times to avoid presenting a slow and easy target for outside enemies to pick off. But if you have to, bleed the opponent's energy as much as you could: your higher thrust-to-weight ratio and double-delta shine here, assisting in getting on the enemy's six and staying there.

The new PL-5B introduced to the PLAAF arsenal can on paper pull 30G upon its targets, which makes it extremely efficient when dueling with enemies who are not paying enough attention. But all this come at a price: you only have the starboard Type 30-1 cannon as the last ditch weapon, and thus you have only 60 rounds just like the original [[MiG-21F-13]]. Players who have experience with the [[J-6A]] and [[J-7II]] should have a good idea of the cannon's ballistics, but the off-center placement may take some getting used to. In this case, pilots should pick enemies who have recently manoeuvred, then go straight upon them and aim a bit to the left to compensate the gun's placement; a burst from 30 mm can tear down anything that flies with some precision.

Countermeasures and a radar warning receiver allow the J-7E to have good defensive capabilities, but the aircraft only has a ranging radar instead of a proper search radar. This means that the RWR is the primary source of information on enemy positions besides the in-game spotting mechanic. Remember that some aircraft like the [[F-5C]] do not have a radar at all and those that do can still turn their radar search off to preserve stealth. The J-7E does not have any radar guided missiles and the primitive radar is not relevant during active combat.

=== Enemies worth noting ===

* [[F-5E|F-5]] series: F-5s are always a tough enemy to deal with due to its smaller size and above average manoeuvrability, making him the arch-enemy of J-7E. But thanks to your overall higher thrust-to-weight ratio and double-delta, you can still do some dogfight with him but be caution with your next step: one small wrong move can mean your quick demise. The best solution to handle F-5s are your PL-5Bs, if they are careless enough, they will not have the chance to fly back to the airfield since they have already been shattered by the explosive mass of the missile. If missile is not an option, keep as fast as you could and leave the airspace for another attack run; only hitting him when the tides of battle really allows you to do so.

* [[Mirage IIIE|Mirage III]] series: they have the infamous [[Matra R550 Magic 1|Magic R.550]] and [[Matra R530]] at their disposal and these missiles can send anything that flies back to the hangar with ease. Their high angle of attack also worth mentioning since they can still sacrifice some more speed in the short run and hit you with the cannons. In this case, keep your speed, try to bleed their energy and avoid their Magics with flares, without them, the J-7E with its higher acceleration and energy retention can duel the Mirage III with relative ease.

* [[J35D]]: Currently the only other fighter in War Thunder with a double-delta wing, the Draken has incredibly low wing loading, a good thrust-to-weight ratio, and powerful RB24J missiles that are functionally identical to AIM-9Js. Its missiles are not quite as potent as the Magics used by the Mirages, but the plane can pull off some very impressive manoeuvres, so be cautious when dogfighting with a Draken for the first few turns and be prepared to drop flares if necessary. The Draken's design is a double edged sword however, because the entire aircraft being a lifting body means that it acts like an enormous airbrake during hard turns, losing immense speed. The tailed double-delta configuration of the J-7E is more balanced and its superior energy retention will give a careful pilot the upper hand in an extended engagement. The J35D also lacks flares, is a large target, and has an even more awkward gun placement than the J-7E, so it's not particularly threatening when its speed is gone.

* [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|F-4 Phantoms]]: Other than the [[F-4C]]: All top-tier Phantoms are large, bulky planes that will suffer heavily in a dogfight with the J-7E, but they are fast and may be able to outrun the J-7E and other Fishbeds at low altitude courtesy of their higher rip speeds (less so for the FGR/FG if they are carrying gun pods). Careful Phantom pilots will maintain their energy and repeatedly sling missiles at the J-7E while avoiding dogfights, and they also carry plenty of flares to avoid return fire from PL-5Bs. The British Phantoms boast pulse-doppler radars that can guide AIM-7 Sparrows against ground clutter while staying at high altitude. The J-7E has a radar warning receiver and an impressive supply of countermeasures for a light fighter, so long range Sparrow shots can be detected and evaded, but such launches are still annoying to deal with and can wear down the J-7E. Coordinate with teammates, trash their Sparrow shots to force them to switch to short-range IR missiles, and bait them into close quarters engagements where the J-7E excels. The German [[F-4F]] lacks radar-guided missiles despite being otherwise modern, so it is less of a threat.
* [[JA37C|JA37C Viggen]]: Another very iconic jet from Sweden and it is among the most advanced and manoeuvrable jets; the first mass-produced jet that ever comes with a canard. With one of the highest climb rate thanks to its aerodynamic design and powerful engine, as well as an advanced radar with look-down capabilities, this jet among with Phantoms are tough targets to engage. So a good way to avoid quick demise from their Skyflash missiles is to stay as low as you could, where its radar couldn't detect with ease, and try to take a detour behind the enemy lines where they will be concentrated on your teammates, then strike them when they are unaware of it. If that is not the case and you have gone into a dogfight with it, do not head-on as you are a piece of cake to Skyflash. Keep also your speed and manoeuvres in check, bite on its tail as much as you can, since there's a risk for the J-7E to overshoot and get shot by the Viggen's 30 mm cannons.
* [[MiG-23 (Family)]]: The family of late Warsaw Pact variable-swept wing aircraft in-game, the Floggers, have a higher thrust than J-7E does and it does come with better avionics and head-on capable R-60M missiles (MiG-23M and MiG-27M) which can make short work of careless players. The R-24T on the MiG-23MLD are also worth mentioning as they have quite a long radius, are IRST-guided and won't trigger your RWR. But the good news is that in many cases, if the enemy player didn't pay enough attention to tailing J-7E, they are still easy preys to your missiles or sometimes your 30 mm cannons, with such a large airframe, hits can be achieved with ease; but do note that some experienced players will manually control the swept angle of the wings and keep in dogfight for quite a while.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* New engines with higher thrust and overall acceleration thanks to the lighter weight than Soviet MiG-21s
* Unique double-delta wings that gives impressive manoeuvrability and energy retention at its tier
* Multifunctional HUD and full ballistic computer functionality
* Comes with RWR and 72 countermeasures
* PL-5B missiles can make very short work of your enemies with their 30G overload and long boost time
* Good selection of ground attack weaponry, including powerful 130 mm rockets and 500 kg bombs

'''Cons:'''

* Single gun on starboard with only 60 rounds, very challenging to aim
* Lacks a fire-control radar and radar-guided weaponry
* No all-aspect IR missiles
* Missile capacity of 4 is below average
* RWR only displays 4 quadrants and does not display the exact position of a radar lock in respective to the aircraft, notching PD radar missiles can prove more difficult.

== History ==

The CAC J-7 Fishbed (alternatively called a Fishcan to differentiate from the [[MiG-21 (Family)|Soviet built ones]]) has entered PLAAF service since late 1960s, but due to the political turmoil and lack of documents due to Sino-Soviet split, it was until the mid-1970s where the [[J-7II]] has a steady pace of manufacture. The 4th major revision of this airframe, J-7IV, aka J-7E, needs to trace back to the 1980s.

In the early 1980s, Mainland China had better relationships with European countries who seek to open up their military equipment market; thus during these days the older J-7II received a overhaul upgrade coded J-7B (or F-7M in foreign market) with British electronic equipment provided by GEC Marconi; while at the same time Chinese got their hands on a few [[MiG-21MF (Germany)|MiG-21MF]] from Egypt for upgrading the PLAAF fleet with a faster and radar-equipped aircraft, which later became the J-7C/D. They however failed to meet PLAAF's requirements on low speed dogfight doctrine and only a mere 54 aircraft were manufactured, though they were impressed by the R-13-300 engines on them and thus it became the Shenyang Liming WP-13 engine.

Although all these must be supported with a higher military budget (which wasn't available in the 1980s due to the economic reform) and during the late 1980s, most of the budget went to the later J-10 "Firebird"; while there were the mass of the older Shenyang [[J-6A|J-6]] fleet that needed replacement and PLAAF was in dire need for a fighter that came with ground-attacking capabilities (even the Shenyang J-8II was among the modified aircraft), so the CAC (Chengdu Aircraft Corp.) decided to made an upgrade on J-7 based on the opinion from foreign users, especially in terms of manoeuvrability .

Thus, the J-7IV (that later became the J-7E) program started in 1987 and by May 1991, it made its first flight and 2 years later it came into PLAAF commission.

The main improvement was the manoeuvrability, with the new WP-13 engine and the iconic double-delta designed by Northwestern Polytechnical University (西北工业大学 in Xi'an, Shaanxi) with a slat that can be lowered to 25° (and in fact the first PRC fighter with slats) that really helped its manoeuvrability - in a PLAAF's exercise in 1993, it was concluded that it was 43% better than older J-7II, as well as longer range with additional fuel tanks at the cost of giving up the port side cannon due to decreasing usage of cannons. Other improvements included additional pair of pylon, domestic avionics with a HUD, as well as some of the cockpit gauges were digital.

These 260 J-7Es built from 1994 to 2001 became the gap filler for PLAAF in the struggling days during the heat of 2nd Taiwan Strait Crisis; in 2006, based on the later F-7PG that came with an Italian radar (later domestic radar); the ultimate Fishbed of Mainland China- the J-7G came into service, with HMDs and latest avionics. Both serving as a supplementary jets to frontline airfields and cheaper solution to fill the gap until newer J-10C and J-11 series replace them.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=j_7e Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|uPiZbwP0IUA|'''My Definite Favourite - J-7E Red Skies''' - ''DEFYN''|yQfhODlSmJo|'''The Shooting Range #257''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:27 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|cSY9Dymym9A|'''The Most Underrated Plane Of Patch 2.7: J-7E''' - ''Spit_flyer''}}

== See also ==


;[[MiG-21 (Family)|Related development]]

* [[J-7II]]
* [[J-7D]]

== External links ==


* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/526070-chengdu-j-7e/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]

{{AirManufacturer Chengdu}}
{{China jet aircraft}}

MiG-23MF (Germany)

2022-10-29T22:08:59Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = MiG-23 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=mig_23mf_germany
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
|cockpit=cockpit_mig_23mf_germany.jpg
|market=id50161_mig_23mf_germany
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a gift rank {{Specs|rank}} German jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced during [[Update "Winged Lions"]] as a reward for the [[wt:en/news/7469-event-operation-w-i-n-t-e-r-en|2021 Operation W.I.N.T.E.R.]] event.

The MiG-23MF is an export modification of the Soviet [[MiG-23M]]. In this modification, the avionics were changed in favour of more budgetary and somewhat simplified systems. The MiG-23MF was delivered to all the main countries of the Warsaw Pact, as well as to the Arab states of the Middle East, Africa, India and Cuba.

The MIG-23MF inherits all the main characteristics from the original - good top speed, a very good climb rate, a variable sweep wing and a large array of weaponry. The disadvantages also remained: a limited number of countermeasures, a limited number of weapon suspension nodes and rather mediocre manoeuvrability at transonic speeds.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 13,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,339 || 2,329 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 35.6 || 35.6 || 147.4 || 140.4 || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,380 || 2,358 || 34.5 || 35.0 || 194.4 || 170.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1470  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 508 || 473 || ~12 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 665 || < 650 || < 700 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="5" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="3" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Tumansky R-29-300 || 1
| colspan="2" | 11,155 kg || colspan="3" | 395 - 445 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="4" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 10m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 35m fuel
|-
| 1,780 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 12,367 kg || 13,462 kg || 14,615 kg || 15,195 kg || 18,400 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="5" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 10m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 35m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 7,950 kgf || 10,494 kgf
| 0.85 || 0.78 || 0.72 || 0.69 || 0.57
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 8,268 kgf (1,400 km/h) || 12,987 kgf (1,400 km/h)
| 1.05 || 0.96 || 0.89 || 0.85 || 0.71
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

''Examine the survivability of the aircraft. Note how vulnerable the structure is and how secure the pilot is, whether the fuel tanks are armoured, etc. Describe the armour, if there is any, and also mention the vulnerability of other critical aircraft systems.''

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Cross}} || {{Cross}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|GSh-23L (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 23 mm GSh-23L cannon, belly-mounted (200 rpg)
** 1 x 23 mm GSh-23L cannon + 12 x large calibre countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|OFAB-100 (100 kg)|FAB-250M-62 (250 kg)|FAB-500M-62 (500 kg)|ZB-500 incendiary}}
{{main|R-3S|R-13M1|R-23R|R-23T|R-60MK}}
{{main|Kh-23M|S-5K|S-24B}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x R-13M1 missiles
* 4 x R-13M1 missiles
* 4 x R-3S missiles
* 6 x R-60MK missiles
* 2 x R-23R missiles
* 2 x R-23T missiles
* 64 x S-5K rockets
* 64 x S-5K rockets
* 4 x S-24B rockets
* 2 x Kh-23M missiles
* 16 x 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs (1,600 kg total)
* 4 x 250 kg FAB-250M-62 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 2 x 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 2 x ZB-500 incendiary bombs

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" width="100%" style="text-align:center"
|-
! !! width="11%" | 1 !! width="11%" | 2 !! width="11%" | 3 !! width="11%" | 4
| rowspan="14" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_MiG-23MLA_(Germany).png]]</div>
|-
! 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 4
|-
! 250 kg FAB-250M-62 bombs
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs
| 1 || || || 1
|-
! ZB-500 incendiary bombs
| 1 || || || 1
|-
! S-5K rockets
| 16, 32 || 16 || 16 || 16, 32
|-
! S-24B rockets
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! Kh-23M missiles
| 1* || || || 1*
|-
! R-3S missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! R-13M1 missiles
| 1 || 1 || 1 || 1
|-
! R-23R missiles
| 1† || || || 1†
|-
! R-23T missiles
| 1† || || || 1†
|-
! R-60MK missiles
| 1 || 2 || 2 || 1
|-
! Delta-NG
| || 1* || ||
|-
| colspan="6" | * It is required to equip the Delta-NG targeting pod with the Kh-23M missiles † R-23R and R-23T missiles cannot be mixed, only one type may be carried across hardpoints
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==


'''Air battles'''

Low altitude, high speed, side of the map. Try to get as much speed as possible maintaining a very low altitude and go to the right if you want a more head-on engagement or to the left if you want a side/back of the enemy attack position (in a majority of maps players go to their left). Better used with a squadron, the MiG-23MF can eliminate several enemy aircraft if played right with 3 teammates and using the all-aspect IR-guided R-23T missile.

High altitude, high speed, together with your team, BVR. Fly along with your team, maintain a high altitude until all enemy aircraft are below you, then make surprise attacks on enemies that are busy, normally use the R-23R to destroy the high-altitude F-4s or F-104s with BVR missiles.

No matter which tactic you choose, it is recommended to engage your enemy from their front hemisphere, since you can carry all-aspect IR missiles. This way it leaves your enemy less time to react and dodge the missiles. Also, since both the R-60Ms and the R-23Ts have a relatively wide FOV, it is recommended to lock the enemy using your IRST before engaging the missile lock to slave the missile, and better utilise their wide FOV. Only use the R-60Ms at close range, around 1.5 km. They perform best under such range, and it also gives your enemy less reaction time to release the countermeasures, since R-60Ms are easily tricked by flares.

When in a 1-vs-1 situation, try to use your great low-speed performance to trick the enemy into low speeds, especially when against Phantoms. When your speed drops below 400 km/h, manually control the wing to the most frontal position to improve your manoeuvrability.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Relatively high cruising and top speeds
* Extremely good climb rate
* Manoeuvres better than most of its opponents (such as the Phantoms and other MiG-23s/27s)
* Excellent air-to-air payload, having a wide array of missiles for almost all situations
* Decent air-to-ground payload available
* Large calibre countermeasures are very effective, one to two salvos will be required to evade any missile
* Stock payload includes 2 [[R-13M1]] AAMs
* Can use its radar ballistic computer to hit targets with the cannon beyond the aim assist range (770 m)
* CCIP for rockets allows to deliver quick and very accurate rocket bursts at designated targets, especially in mixed battles

'''Cons:'''

* Underwhelming instantaneous turn rate, cannot pull some extreme manoeuvres easily
* Somewhat prone to stalling, especially after getting hit in one of the wings
* Loses quite a lot of speed in turns
* Bleeds a large amount of energy with its wings swept
* Relatively low countermeasures count (12)
* Low ammunition count and low muzzle velocity for the GSh-23L cannon
* Negative-G manoeuvres at high speeds could cause a wing rip, even for a few seconds
* R-23R missiles have a ridiculously long warm-up time of ~2 full seconds which limits them to longer ranges.

== History ==

''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the aircraft in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''

== Media ==


;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|nFooO9QHp1I|'''MiG-23MF (German): A Basic Review''' - ''Tims Variety''}}

;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=mig_23mf_germany Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

== See also ==

''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''

* ''reference to the series of the aircraft;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/7476/current|[Devblog] Winter marathon vehicles: MiG-23MF (Germany)]]

{{AirManufacturer MiG}}
{{Germany jet aircraft}}
{{Winter Event}}

A-5C

2022-10-22T20:02:21Z

U91119932: /* Usage in battles */

{{About
| about = Chinese strike aircraft '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Q-5 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=a_5c
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|StoreImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
|store=10408
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} Chinese strike aircraft {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Direct Hit"]].

Sharing most of the performance and appearance of a [[Q-5A]], A-5C comes with AAMs and Western bombs which might be more familiar to players of the western countries. With its excellent climb rate as an attacker, a pair of advanced AAMs, and somewhat superior manoeuvrability to enemies at similar BR, it can still prove deadly to enemies at even higher BR, surprising them with what a MiG-19-based aircraft can do.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 7,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 1,438 || 1,434 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 25.4 || 25.7 || 139.8 || 130.0 || rowspan="2" | 900
|-
! Upgraded
| 1,458 || 1,447 || 24.6 || 25.0 || 186.2 || 162.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,260  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 500 || 450 || ~9 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 540 || < 650 || < 350 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="5" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="3" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Shenyang Liming WP-6A-III || 2
| colspan="2" | 6,712 kg || colspan="3" | 341 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="4" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 10m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 34m fuel
|-
| 725 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 7,560 kg || 8,329 kg || 9,138 kg || 9,539 kg || 12,000 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="5" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 10m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 34m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 2,651 kgf || 3,706 kgf
| 0.98 || 0.89 || 0.81 || 0.78 || 0.62
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 2,679 kgf (1,000 km/h) || 3,783 kgf (1,000 km/h)
| 1.00 || 0.91 || 0.83 || 0.79 || 0.63
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


* 10 mm steel plate behind nose cone
* 60 mm bulletproof glass in cockpit front
* 8 mm steel plate underneath cockpit
* 25 mm steel armoured pilot's seat
* 10 + 16 mm steel armoured pilot's headrest
* Self-sealing fuel tanks behind cockpit and underneath engines in rear fuselage

The A-5C protects the pilot from small arms fire, but against the armaments encountered at the battle rating, this level of protection does not amount to much. Enemy cannons and missiles will make short work of the A-5C so avoiding incoming fire is paramount. The twin engines are likely to be damaged by attacks from the rear, but having two of them offers some extra survivability since it is capable of flying back to base on one engine. The aircraft also remains somewhat controllable if one of the elevators is blown off.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|Type 23-2K (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 2 x 23 mm Type 23-2K cannons, wing-mounted (120 rpg = 240 total)
** 2 x 23 mm Type 23-2K cannons + 18 x countermeasures

The A-5C is equipped with 23 mm cannons identical to the [[NR-23 (23 mm)|NR-23]] cannons found on earlier Soviet jets like the [[J-4]]/[[MiG-17]]. These are significantly less powerful than the contemporary [[J-6A]]'s [[Type 30-1 (30 mm)|Type 30]]/[[NR-30 (30 mm)|NR-30]] cannons due to their lower explosive content, kinetic damage, and muzzle velocity. They typically require a solid burst of hits to destroy a target instead of dismembering enemy fighters with a brief touch. On the bright side, they have more ammunition with about 8 seconds of firing time. Lead generously and try to get close to your opponent before unloading. Using them against ground targets should not be a priority since their penetration is no higher than a heavy machine gun and the ammo supply is not plentiful.

The default belt has an even mix of FI-T and AP-I rounds and should be satisfactory from the start. Gun convergence is not a major issue since the cannons are mounted close to the centerline of the aircraft in the wing roots, and is up to personal preference.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|M117 cone 45 (750 lb)}}
{{main|AIM-9P Sidewinder|Matra R550 Magic 1|Type 90-1|Type 130-2}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 4 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (2,000 lb total)
* 4 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 2 x AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles
* 2 x Matra R550 Magic 1 missiles
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
* 16 x Type 130-2 rockets
* 2 x Matra R550 Magic 1 missiles + 4 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (2,000 lb total)
* 2 x Matra R550 Magic 1 missiles + 4 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 2 x Matra R550 Magic 1 missiles + 28 x Type 90-1 rockets + 4 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (2,000 lb total)
* 2 x Matra R550 Magic 1 missiles + 28 x Type 90-1 rockets + 4 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 2 x Matra R550 Magic 1 missiles + 16 x Type 130-2 rockets + 4 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (2,000 lb total)
* 2 x Matra R550 Magic 1 missiles + 16 x Type 130-2 rockets + 4 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 2 x AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles + 4 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (2,000 lb total)
* 2 x AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles + 4 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 2 x AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles + 4 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs + 28 x Type 90-1 rockets (2,000 lb total)
* 2 x AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles + 4 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs + 16 x Type 130-2 rockets (2,000 lb total)
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets + 4 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (2,000 lb total)
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets + 4 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets + 4 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs +2 x AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles (3,000 lb total)
* 16 x Type 130-2 rockets + 4 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (2,000 lb total)
* 16 x Type 130-2 rockets + 4 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 16 x Type 130-2 rockets + 4 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs + 2 x AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles (3,000 lb total)

== Usage in battles ==

Although historically an attack aircraft, the A-5C is not a first-rate ground attacker in Air RB since its ordnance is rather anaemic compared to other jets at its battle rating. It cannot destroy a base with its four 250 kg/500 lb bombs, but this is still an option for supplementary research points when grinding: stay at low altitude, loop around to a side base, drop the bombs, then head towards the center of the map to join the furball. Going after AI ground vehicles with the bombs and rockets can also be successful provided that other jets do not arrive quickly to crash the party.

The A-5C can outrun many of the enemy fighters it faces, but active combat at transonic or supersonic speeds should be avoided because of the control compression. The best way to reverse enemies is to pull them into a climbing spiral or other vertical manoeuvres; the A-5C has enough of the MiG-19's climb and thrust-to-weight characteristics to energy fight in a similar manner, the declining airspeed relaxes the control compression, and a stalled-out target is easier to gun down. It should be obvious that actual MiG-19 models such as the [[MiG-19S (Germany)|German MiG-19S]] are better than the A-5C in almost every regard when it comes to air-to-air combat. Be very careful about engaging them. When diving, pay VERY close attention to your airspeed, as the A-5C has a tendency to rip wings if you are approaching the ground at over Mach 1.0. If you need to, use airbrake and pull up gently to reduce the control compression, DO NOT use afterburner or high levels of throttle in a low-altitude dive, the airbrakes are effective enough to stop you from ripping your wings but they work best in horizontal turns and not in dives, especially with thrust being applied at the same time

While its Chinese cousins lacked any form of AAM for self-defense, the A-5C comes with a pair of AIM-9Ps or Matra R550 Magics which prove very deadly at the BR; AIM-9P can cause extensive damage to the enemy team at range and Magic is among the best AAMs in game which can easily terminate any targets within a 2 km radius. So bringing 2 of them solely for dogfights or as self-defense are the way to go.

The RWR will not stop any missiles by itself, but knowing if there are pursuers or radar locks behind you reduces the chance of being surprised by a missile or cannon burst out of nowhere. The RWR is not a replacement for situational awareness, it is still the pilot's duty to look for approaching enemies and missile launches whenever possible. While A-5C comes with countermeasures, it has only 18 of them - only sufficient for one or two near misses from enemy missiles, so evade enemy missiles with manoeuvres for the best result and only spend your flares as a last ditch measure to save yourself.

'''Ground RB'''

The A-5C is a light ground attacker whose rockets are limited in capacity and whose bombs are limited in power. It's generally best to use up the rockets and bombs in one or two passes, then switch to providing air cover. If there are no enemy aircraft or helicopters around, the A-5C can quickly zoom back to the airfield and restock its weapons for another run. Keep in mind that A-5C has no CCIP capabilities, therefore pilots may need practice to drop bombs or unleash rockets accurately.

The A-5C has 90 mm HEAT rockets, which can be used successfully from many angles provided that enough hits are landed to knock out crew members. This is a challenge without a ballistic computer and the diving paths required to hit targets from above run the risk of crashing into the ground or presenting an easy target for SPAA, so definitely prioritize light vehicles when possible.

The 500 lbs bombs, which are dropped individually, do not have much explosive filler and need to be delivered with decent accuracy in order to score kills. This can be a tall order for a supersonic jet aircraft like the A-5C, especially against moving targets, so consider dropping several (or even all of them) at once. Carpet bombing a capture point or street can lead to decent results. A short fuse can be used due to the bombs' limited blast radius. For those familiar with the Q-5s, keep in mind that they carried high-drag bombs, meaning that you had to be really close to your targets before dropping them; these low-drag Mk.82 bombs should be easier to use.

The A-5C's radar warning receiver can help detect SPAA vehicles, but be sure to visually inspect the battlefield as well. Some players turn off their radars for greater stealth and some SPAAs lack radars entirely. The majority of SAMs are manually guided by their operators and thus flares will not work against them; the main exceptions are the Japanese [[Type 93]] and the Italian [[SIDAM 25 (Mistral)]]. Do not head-on or stall out in full view of an SPAA, and even when the coast appears to be clear, avoid flying in straight lines.

'''Evading IR Missiles'''

The A-5's engines produce a somewhat-large heat signature compared to other aircraft at it's BR, in some cases even if you shut your afterburner off and try to flare/bank away from the missile, it will ignore the flares outright and go right for your engines, it also does not help that at high speeds your elevators and ailerons compress significantly, preventing you from evading the missile even if you expend all 18 flares on a single missile.

In order to evade some more-flare-resistant missiles such as the Aim-9L, a good strategy is to shut off your engines completely or reducing your throttle to 0% so your heat signature is reduced significantly, drop a flare or two, then firing up your engines again and speeding off. Do not attempt to aggressively bank while your engines are off or still warming up, as you could bleed enough speed to allow whoever fired the missile at you a chance to get their guns locked on you, once your engines are up to temperature again and producing maximum thrust, then you can bank to try to evade any future missiles, this best works against slower targets like the A-10 or Su-25 which both carry 30G all-aspect AAMs of the Aim-9L and R-60M/MK respectively. avoid trying this against jets like the F-4C or Mig-21s, as they can catch up to you at lower altitudes, especially at speeds approaching Mach-1.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* High acceleration, great energy retention, and decent climb rate
* Good ammunition stock
* Good sustained manoeuvrability, can out-turn F-4 Phantoms and keep up with MiG-21s
* Has a radar warning receiver, useful against high tier SPAAs
* Comes with excellent AIM-9P or R550 Magic missiles as self defense weaponry
* The 4 x 500 lb bombs drop separately
* The Type 90-1 rockets have sufficient penetration against MBT weakspots and light vehicles

'''Cons:'''

* Average roll rate, much slower than shorter-winged opponents such as [[Yak-38 (Family)|Yak-38]] and [[Jaguar GR.1|Jaguar]]
* Rudder and elevators lock up at high speeds (>1000 km/h)
* The 23 mm cannons sometimes fall short in damage, much less lethal than J-6A's 30 mm cannons
* No ballistic computer for bombs and rockets, thus requiring more skill to aim
* Ordnance capacity is still below average for its rank
* Amount of flares is quite limited.

== History ==

In view of the economy after the Cultural Revolution and the dawn of the economic reform in Mainland China, the Central Government decided that all exported weapons would be priced and handled by the newly established {{Annotation|CATIC|China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation}}. In mid-1979, Egypt became their first overseas customer with orders of new jets and engines; meanwhile, Pakistan had concluded that the main culprit for the lost of 3rd Indo-Pakistan War was because of the lack of a dedicated ground attacker, in fear of possible assaults from USSR via Afghanistan, they were in dire need for a new ground attacker.

Pakistan then sent 2 teams of staffs to Nanchang Aircraft Corporation and it was concluded that Q-5 would be a fair option for an attacker with its low-altitude performance and price, but it would also be upgraded with Western avionics, weaponries and came with IR AAMs for self-defense. Based on the Q-5IA that was still under development, Nanchang Aircraft Corp. built 3 prototypes in 1982 and the newly designated A-5C was delivered to the PAF from early 1983 to 1984, with 54 of them built through out the year.

A-5C was then delivered to three different PAF squadrons and some of them retired as early as 1991, while the remaining were kept in commission until mid-2011, when the more-advanced JF-17 Thunder replaced them as a multi-role fighter. Other export variants remain in service at Myanmar and Sudan.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=a_5c Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|qvUGjLvcJX0|'''Should You Buy The A-5C? - Premium Review''' - ''Sako Sniper''}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[Q-5 early]]
* [[Q-5A]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/7284-development-new-top-tier-ztz99-iii-and-pre-order-for-a-5c-en|[Devblog] New top-tier ZTZ99-III and pre-order for A-5C]]

{{AirManufacturer Nanchang}}
{{China jet aircraft}}
{{China premium aircraft}}

Su-17M4

2022-09-27T16:54:29Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Soviet strike aircraft '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Su-17/22 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=su_17m4
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet strike aircraft {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Danger Zone"]].

The Su-17M4 is a later model of the swing-wing "Fitter" attacker family. Compared to the previous [[Su-17M2]], it uses a revised airframe shared by the [[Su-22M3]] with a drooping forward fuselage and a noticeable hump behind the cockpit. The flight performance remains practically unchanged, still enjoying good speed and the versatility afforded by its swing wings. In-game, its most notable improvements over other models are the ability to use all-aspect [[R-60M]] infrared missiles for air combat and a large supply of 268 countermeasures for self defense. It also enjoys the widest suite of ground attack weapons, featuring the S-25 heavy rocket seen on the Su-22M3 and the [[Kh-29T]] TV-guided missile seen on the [[MiG-27M]]/[[MiG-27K|K]]. Although the Su-17M4 is more primitive than the MiG-27K and cannot fulfill the same long-range CAS role afforded by the Flogger's advanced targeting systems, this Sukhoi is still a robust strike platform with plenty of hardpoints and a large arsenal.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

''Describe how the aircraft behaves in the air. Speed, manoeuvrability, acceleration and allowable loads - these are the most important characteristics of the vehicle.''

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 11,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,028 || 2,011 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 27.3 || 27.5 || 167.9 || 161.2 || rowspan="2" | 850
|-
! Upgraded
| ___ || ___ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="60%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="60%"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Limits
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
! Min sweep
| 1,050 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 476 || 473 || ~10 || ~3
|-
! Max sweep
| 1,417 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ~11 || ~4
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 740 || < 650 || < 650 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="5" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="3" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Saturn AL-21F-3 || 1
| colspan="2" | 11,245 kg || colspan="3" | 391 - 436 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="4" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | {{Annotation|Max Gross Weight|Mass of the fully equipped aircraft with heaviest weapons load}}
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 12m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 40m fuel
|-
| 1,800 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 12,385 kg || 13,103 kg || 14,031 kg || 15,045 kg || 19,367 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="5" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 12m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 40m fuel || MGW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 6,400 kgf || 9,039 kgf
| 0.73 || 0.69 || 0.64 || 0.60 || 0.47
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 7,232 kgf (1,200 km/h) || 13,188 kgf (1,417 km/h)
| 1.06 || 1.01 || 0.94 || 0.88 || 0.68
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

''Examine the survivability of the aircraft. Note how vulnerable the structure is and how secure the pilot is, whether the fuel tanks are armoured, etc. Describe the armour, if there is any, and also mention the vulnerability of other critical aircraft systems.''

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|NR-30 (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 2 x 30 mm NR-30 cannons, wing-mounted (80 rpg = 160 total)
** 2 x 30 mm NR-30 cannons + 12 x large calibre countermeasures + 256 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|OFAB-100 (100 kg)|OFAB-250sv (250 kg)|FAB-500M-62 (500 kg)|ZB-500 incendiary}}
{{main|Kh-23M|Kh-25ML|Kh-29L|Kh-29T|S-25L}}
{{main|S-3K|S-5K|S-8KO|S-13OF|S-24B}}
{{main|R-60M|S-25O|GSh-23L (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x R-60M missiles
* 6 x R-60M missiles
* 28 x S-3K rockets
* 128 x S-5K rockets
* 6 x S-24B rockets
* 80 x S-8KO rockets
* 20 x S-13OF rockets
* 2 x S-25O rockets
* 20 x 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 10 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (2,500 kg total)
* 8 x 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs (4,000 kg total)
* 4 x ZB-500 incendiary bombs
* 2 x S-25L missiles
* 2 x Kh-23M missiles
* 4 x Kh-25ML missiles
* 2 x Kh-29L missiles
* 2 x Kh-29T missiles
* 4 x 23 mm GSh-23L cannons (250 rpg = 1,000 total)

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" width="100%" style="text-align:center"
|-
! !! width="5%" | 1 !! width="5%" | 2 !! width="5%" | 3 !! width="5%" | 4 !! width="5%" | 5 !! width="5%" | 6 !! width="5%" | 7 !! width="5%" | 8
| rowspan="20" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! 23 mm GSh-23L cannons (250 rpg)
| 1 || || 1 || || || 1 || || 1
|-
! 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs
| 5 || || 1 || 4 || 4 || 1 || || 5
|-
! 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs
| 1 || || 1 || 3 || 3 || 1 || || 1
|-
! 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs
| 1 || || 1 || 2 || 2 || 1 || || 1
|-
! ZB-500 incendiary bombs
| 1 || || || 1 || 1 || || || 1
|-
! S-3K rockets
| 7 || || || 7 || 7 || || || 7
|-
! S-5K rockets
| 32 || || 32 || || || 32 || || 32
|-
! S-8KO rockets
| 20 || || 20 || || || 20 || || 20
|-
! S-13OF rockets
| 5 || || 5 || || || 5 || || 5
|-
! S-24B rockets
| 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1
|-
! S-25O rockets
| 1 || || || || || || || 1
|-
! Kh-23M missiles
| 1† || || || || || || || 1†
|-
! Kh-25ML missiles
| 1* || || || 1* || 1* || || || 1*
|-
! Kh-29L missiles
| || || || 1* || 1* || || ||
|-
! Kh-29T missiles
| || || || 1* || 1* || || ||
|-
! R-60M missiles
| || 1 || 2 || || || 2 || 1 ||
|-
! S-25L missiles
| 1* || || || || || || || 1*
|-
! Delta-NG
| || || 1† || || || || ||
|-
| colspan="9" | Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 700 kg
|-
| colspan="10" | * Kh-29T missiles cannot be mixed with the marked options † It is required to equip the Delta-NG targeting pod with the Kh-23M missiles
|}

== Usage in battles ==

''Describe the tactics of playing in the aircraft, the features of using aircraft in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''

=== Radars ===
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="4" | SRD-5 - Rangefinding radar
|-
! {{Annotation|Maximum Tracking Range|The maximum range at which a target can be tracked}}
! {{Annotation|Minimum Tracking Range|The range below which targets cannot be tracked by the radar}}
! {{Annotation|Azimuth Tracking Angle|How far to each side the radar can track a target}}
! {{Annotation|Elevation Tracking Angle|How far up and down the radar can track a target}}
|-
| 3,000 m || 300 m || ±9° || ±9°
|-
|}

=== Pros and cons ===

''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in the bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".''

'''Pros:'''

* Can act as a very strong supporting fighter with 6x R-60M AAMs and sweep wing.
* Ridiculous amount of CMs, 256x small and 12x large countermeasures is more than enough to keep missiles off of you.
* Excellent loadout options for both AAMs and ground ordinance alike.
* Good overall turn rate and energy retention, can hold 800-1000kmh in turns with wings fully un-swept and afterburner deployed.
* Strong elevator authority, can pull out of low-skimming attack runs with no problem.
* NR-30 cannons are very powerful, can also mount up to 4 Gsh-23L gunpods for extra burst mass.

*

'''Cons:'''

* Roll-rate and overall maneuverability are very sluggish at speeds below 500 km/h
* With wings fully swept-forward max speed is limited to approximately mach 0.8 at sea level otherwise the wings will rip.
* Cannot carry GBUs or R-13 AAMs like the Mig-27M/K
* Raw payload is somewhat low, at only 4000 Kg of bombs.
* No Semi-automatic option for managing wing-sweep, only full-manual or automatic wing-sweep settings.
* Gigantic target when wings are un-swept

*

== History ==

''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the aircraft in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=su_17m4 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|JBsxfmmBLho|'''The Shooting Range #311''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:27 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==


;[[Su-17/22 (Family)|Related development]]

* [[Su-17M2]]

== External links ==

''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''

* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''other literature.''

{{AirManufacturer Sukhoi}}
{{USSR jet aircraft}}

Su-22UM3K (Germany)

2022-08-24T01:43:26Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = strike aircraft '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Su-17/22 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=su_22um3k
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} German strike aircraft {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Wind of Change"]].

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 11,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,208 || 2,191 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 27.4 || 27.5 || 163.7 || 157.3 || rowspan="2" | 850
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,251 || 2,232 || 26.6 || 27.0 || 208.1 || 185.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 477 || 473 || ~__ || ~__
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 740 || < 650 || < 650 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="5" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="3" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Saturn AL-21F-3 || 1
| colspan="2" | 11,695 kg || colspan="3" | ___ kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="4" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 12m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 40m fuel
|-
| 1,800 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 12,835 kg || 13,552 kg || 14,481 kg || 15,495 kg || _,___ kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="5" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 12m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 40m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 6,400 kgf || 9,039 kgf
| 0.70 || 0.67 || 0.62 || 0.58 || _.__
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 7,232 kgf (1,200 km/h) || 13,178 kgf (1,400 km/h)
| 1.03 || 0.97 || 0.91 || 0.85 || _.__
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

''Examine the survivability of the aircraft. Note how vulnerable the structure is and how secure the pilot is, whether the fuel tanks are armoured, etc. Describe the armour, if there is any, and also mention the vulnerability of other critical aircraft systems.''

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|NR-30 (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 30 mm NR-30 cannon, wing-mounted (80 rpg)
** 1 x 30 mm NR-30 cannon + 128 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|OFAB-100 (100 kg)|OFAB-250sv (250 kg)|FAB-500M-62 (500 kg)|ZB-500 incendiary|GSh-23L (23 mm)}}
{{main|Kh-23M|Kh-25ML|Kh-29L|R-60|R-60M}}
{{main|S-3K|S-5K|S-8KO}}
{{main|S-24B|S-25L|S-25O}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x R-60 missiles
* 20 x 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 10 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (2,500 kg total)
* 6 x 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs (3,000 kg total)
* 28 x S-3K rockets
* 128 x S-5K rockets
* 6 x S-24B rockets
* 2 x S-25O rockets
* 80 x S-8KO rockets
* 2 x Kh-23M missiles
* 4 x Kh-25ML missiles
* 2 x Kh-29L missiles
* 2 x S-25L missiles
* 4 x R-60M missiles + 2 x R-60 missiles
* 2 x 23 mm GSh-23L cannons (250 rpg = 500 total)
* 18 x 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs + 64 x S-5K rockets (1,800 kg total)
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 20 x 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 10 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (2,500 kg total)
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 6 x 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs (3,000 kg total)
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 6 x 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs + 40 x S-8KO rockets (3,000 kg total)
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 2 x S-25O rockets + 2 x S-24B rockets + 40 x S-8KO rockets
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 2 x Kh-29L missiles + 2 x Kh-25ML missiles
* 4 x ZB-500 incendiary bombs

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" width="100%" style="text-align:center"
|-
! !! width="5%" | 1 !! width="5%" | 2 !! width="5%" | 3 !! width="5%" | 4 !! width="5%" | 5 !! width="5%" | 6 !! width="5%" | 7 !! width="5%" | 8
| rowspan="19" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! 23 mm GSh-23L cannons (250 rpg)
| || || 1 || || || 1 || ||
|-
! 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs
| 5 || || 1 || 4 || 4 || 1 || || 5
|-
! 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs
| 1 || || 1 || 3 || 3 || 1 || || 1
|-
! 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs
| 1 || || || 2 || 2 || || || 1
|-
! ZB-500 incendiary bombs
| 1 || || || 1 || 1 || || || 1
|-
! S-3K rockets
| 7 || || || 7 || 7 || || || 7
|-
! S-5K rockets
| 32 || || 32 || || || 32 || || 32
|-
! S-8KO rockets
| 20 || || 20 || || || 20 || || 20
|-
! S-24B rockets
| 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1
|-
! S-25O rockets
| 1 || || || || || || || 1
|-
! Kh-23M missiles
| 1 || || || || || || || 1
|-
! Kh-25ML missiles
| 1 || || || 1 || 1 || || || 1
|-
! Kh-29L missiles
| || || || 1 || 1 || || ||
|-
! R-60 missiles
| || 1 || || || || || 1 ||
|-
! R-60M missiles
| || || 2 || || || 2 || ||
|-
! S-25L missiles
| 1 || || || || || || || 1
|-
! Delta-NG
| || || 1 || || || || ||
|-
| colspan="9" | Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 700 kg
|-
| colspan="10" | * It is required to equip the Delta-NG targeting pod with the Kh-23M missiles
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

''Describe the tactics of playing in the aircraft, the features of using aircraft in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''

=== Radars ===
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="4" | SRD-5 - Rangefinding radar
|-
! {{Annotation|Maximum Tracking Range|The maximum range at which a target can be tracked}}
! {{Annotation|Minimum Tracking Range|The range below which targets cannot be tracked by the radar}}
! {{Annotation|Azimuth Tracking Angle|How far to each side the radar can track a target}}
! {{Annotation|Elevation Tracking Angle|How far up and down the radar can track a target}}
|-
| 3,000 m || 300 m || ±9° || ±9°
|-
|}

=== Pros and cons ===

''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in the bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".''

'''Pros:'''

* Excellent supply of countermeasures.
* Has 2 pilots.
* Can mount up to 4 R-60M all-aspect missiles on central pylons.
* Very good energy retention, can maintain 800-900 km/h in a turn with wings swept forward and afterburner deployed.
* Versatile S-25 rockets with both unguided and laser-guided variants.
* Unlike the Su-22M3, can mount S-5K rockets.

*

'''Cons:'''

* Overall turn rate leaves something to be desired.
* Extremely sluggish at low speed.
* Massive target, has one of the biggest wingspans of all top-tier jets with wings swept forward.
* Requires constant use of manual wing sweep in combat.
* Only 1 NR-30 cannon, although this can be offset to an extent by mounting 23mm gunpods.

*

== History ==

''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the aircraft in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''

== Media ==

''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''

== See also ==

''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''

* ''reference to the series of the aircraft;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

== External links ==

''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''

* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''other literature.''

{{AirManufacturer Sukhoi}}
{{Germany jet aircraft}}

Su-22UM3K (Germany)

2022-08-24T01:42:07Z

U91119932: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = strike aircraft '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Su-17/22 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=su_22um3k
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} German strike aircraft {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Wind of Change"]].

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 11,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,208 || 2,191 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 27.4 || 27.5 || 163.7 || 157.3 || rowspan="2" | 850
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,251 || 2,232 || 26.6 || 27.0 || 208.1 || 185.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 477 || 473 || ~__ || ~__
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 740 || < 650 || < 650 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="5" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="3" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Saturn AL-21F-3 || 1
| colspan="2" | 11,695 kg || colspan="3" | ___ kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="4" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 12m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 40m fuel
|-
| 1,800 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 12,835 kg || 13,552 kg || 14,481 kg || 15,495 kg || _,___ kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="5" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 12m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 40m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 6,400 kgf || 9,039 kgf
| 0.70 || 0.67 || 0.62 || 0.58 || _.__
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 7,232 kgf (1,200 km/h) || 13,178 kgf (1,400 km/h)
| 1.03 || 0.97 || 0.91 || 0.85 || _.__
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

''Examine the survivability of the aircraft. Note how vulnerable the structure is and how secure the pilot is, whether the fuel tanks are armoured, etc. Describe the armour, if there is any, and also mention the vulnerability of other critical aircraft systems.''

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|NR-30 (30 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** 1 x 30 mm NR-30 cannon, wing-mounted (80 rpg)
** 1 x 30 mm NR-30 cannon + 128 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|OFAB-100 (100 kg)|OFAB-250sv (250 kg)|FAB-500M-62 (500 kg)|ZB-500 incendiary|GSh-23L (23 mm)}}
{{main|Kh-23M|Kh-25ML|Kh-29L|R-60|R-60M}}
{{main|S-3K|S-5K|S-8KO}}
{{main|S-24B|S-25L|S-25O}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance presets:

* Without load
* 2 x R-60 missiles
* 20 x 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 10 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (2,500 kg total)
* 6 x 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs (3,000 kg total)
* 28 x S-3K rockets
* 128 x S-5K rockets
* 6 x S-24B rockets
* 2 x S-25O rockets
* 80 x S-8KO rockets
* 2 x Kh-23M missiles
* 4 x Kh-25ML missiles
* 2 x Kh-29L missiles
* 2 x S-25L missiles
* 4 x R-60M missiles + 2 x R-60 missiles
* 2 x 23 mm GSh-23L cannons (250 rpg = 500 total)
* 18 x 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs + 64 x S-5K rockets (1,800 kg total)
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 20 x 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs (2,000 kg total)
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 10 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (2,500 kg total)
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 6 x 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs (3,000 kg total)
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 6 x 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs + 40 x S-8KO rockets (3,000 kg total)
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 2 x S-25O rockets + 2 x S-24B rockets + 40 x S-8KO rockets
* 2 x R-60 missiles + 2 x Kh-29L missiles + 2 x Kh-25ML missiles
* 4 x ZB-500 incendiary bombs

==== Custom loadout options ====
{| class="wikitable" width="100%" style="text-align:center"
|-
! !! width="5%" | 1 !! width="5%" | 2 !! width="5%" | 3 !! width="5%" | 4 !! width="5%" | 5 !! width="5%" | 6 !! width="5%" | 7 !! width="5%" | 8
| rowspan="19" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
|-
! 23 mm GSh-23L cannons (250 rpg)
| || || 1 || || || 1 || ||
|-
! 100 kg OFAB-100 bombs
| 5 || || 1 || 4 || 4 || 1 || || 5
|-
! 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs
| 1 || || 1 || 3 || 3 || 1 || || 1
|-
! 500 kg FAB-500M-62 bombs
| 1 || || || 2 || 2 || || || 1
|-
! ZB-500 incendiary bombs
| 1 || || || 1 || 1 || || || 1
|-
! S-3K rockets
| 7 || || || 7 || 7 || || || 7
|-
! S-5K rockets
| 32 || || 32 || || || 32 || || 32
|-
! S-8KO rockets
| 20 || || 20 || || || 20 || || 20
|-
! S-24B rockets
| 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1
|-
! S-25O rockets
| 1 || || || || || || || 1
|-
! Kh-23M missiles
| 1 || || || || || || || 1
|-
! Kh-25ML missiles
| 1 || || || 1 || 1 || || || 1
|-
! Kh-29L missiles
| || || || 1 || 1 || || ||
|-
! R-60 missiles
| || 1 || || || || || 1 ||
|-
! R-60M missiles
| || || 2 || || || 2 || ||
|-
! S-25L missiles
| 1 || || || || || || || 1
|-
! Delta-NG
| || || 1 || || || || ||
|-
| colspan="9" | Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 700 kg
|-
| colspan="10" | * It is required to equip the Delta-NG targeting pod with the Kh-23M missiles
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

''Describe the tactics of playing in the aircraft, the features of using aircraft in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''

=== Radars ===
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="4" | SRD-5 - Rangefinding radar
|-
! {{Annotation|Maximum Tracking Range|The maximum range at which a target can be tracked}}
! {{Annotation|Minimum Tracking Range|The range below which targets cannot be tracked by the radar}}
! {{Annotation|Azimuth Tracking Angle|How far to each side the radar can track a target}}
! {{Annotation|Elevation Tracking Angle|How far up and down the radar can track a target}}
|-
| 3,000 m || 300 m || ±9° || ±9°
|-
|}

=== Pros and cons ===

''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in the bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".''

'''Pros:'''

* Excellent supply of countermeasures.
* Has 2 pilots.
* Can mount up to 4 R-60M all-aspect missiles on central pylons.
* Very good energy retention, can maintain 800-900 km/h in a turn with wings swept forward and afterburner deployed.
* Versatile S-25 rockets with both unguided and laser-guided variants.
* Unlike the Su-22M3, can mount S-5K rockets.

*

'''Cons:'''

* Overall turn rate leaves something to be desired.
* Extremely sluggish at low speed.
* Massive target, has one of the biggest wingspans of all top-tier jets with wings swept forward.
* Requires constant use of manual wing sweep in combat.
* Only 1 NR-30 cannon, although this can be offset to an extent by mounting 23mm gunpods

*

== History ==

''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the aircraft in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''

== Media ==

''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''

== See also ==

''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''

* ''reference to the series of the aircraft;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

== External links ==

''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''

* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''other literature.''

{{AirManufacturer Sukhoi}}
{{Germany jet aircraft}}