War Thunder Wiki - User contributions [en]

Pantsir-S1

2024-03-06T04:15:25Z

U77257111: /* Pros and cons */ Added the multitrack and fire capabilities of the vehicle in the Pros section, as well as its ability to easily intercept certain air-to-ground weaponry with ease. Cons is unchanged.

{{Specs-Card
|code=ussr_pantsyr_s1
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a Russian SPAA designed with the intent of complementing and enhancing the existing air defence capabilities for military, industrial, and administrative installations. The development of the Pantsir-S1 can be traced back to the early 1990s, when the Russian military realised it needed an adaptable short-to-medium-range air defence system. The Instrument Design Bureau (KPB Tula) and the Ulyanovsk Mechanical Plant worked together to develop the Pantsir-S1. The main objective was to develop a highly adaptable and powerful anti-aircraft system that could take on a variety of aerial threats, such as helicopters, fighter jets, and drones. It features advanced radar systems and a combination of missiles and guns for effective air defence. Additionally, the system is equipped with a high degree of automation, allowing for quick reaction times and efficient target engagement.

The {{Specs|name}} was introduced in [[Update "Sky Guardians"]] as a top-tier SPAA vehicle. In terms of gameplay, the Pantsir-S1 excels at engaging aircraft and helicopters at medium to close range. Its combination of missiles and autocannons allows it to deal with various aerial threats effectively. However, its armour is relatively thin, so players need to be cautious about enemy ground units. Nonetheless, the Pantsir-S1's mobility and versatility ensure that it can provide effective air defence support to friendly forces.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

The Pantsir-S1 doesn't offer a strong armour of any kind, the strongest part of the vehicle is the 40 mm armoured glass that protects the driver. On the front, sides, and rear there is mostly a 5 to 6 mm structural steel armour and high hardness rolled armour.

The crew placement makes it even more vulnerable, as the 3 crew members are placed near each other, meaning a single shot is lethal for the majority of the time, making this vehicle unsuited for tank-on-tank combat. The best choice is to find natural or artificial cover to avoid being seen or being exposed to enemy fire.

'''Armour type:''' 


{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 6 mm || 5 - 6 mm ''Top'' 5 - 6 mm ''Bottom'' || 6 mm || 6 mm
|-
| Turret || 15 mm ''Turret front'' 5 - 10 ''Gun mantlet'' || 5 - 15 mm || 5 mm || 5 - 15 mm
|-
| Cupola || 5 - 15 mm || 5 - 15 mm || 5 mm || 15 - 5 mm
|-
|}
'''Notes:'''

* The structural steel located on the bottom of the Pantsir-S1 is 35 mm thick, being on the same level of the upper transmission.

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}

The Pantsir-S1 is a wheeled vehicle, making any crossing on mud, snow or ice difficult.

This vehicle moves thanks to the KamAZ 740.632-400, that offers 354 HP at 1,900 RPM. The maximum speed forwards is 70 km/h, while the reverse speed is limited to -10 km/h, making retreats difficult.

{{tankMobility|abMinHp=568|rbMinHp=354}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}

{{main|2A38M (30 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="6" | [[2A38M (30 mm)|30 mm 2A38M]] (x4) || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 1,404 (351) || rowspan="2" | 1,250 || rowspan="2" | -1°/+85° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | Two-plane || 59.0 || 81.7 || 99.2 || 109.7 || 116.7 || rowspan="2" | 5.20 || rowspan="2" | 4.60 || rowspan="2" | 4.24 || rowspan="2" | 4.00
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 39.9 || 46.9 || 57.0 || 63.0 || 67.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====

* '''Default:''' {{Annotation|AP-T|Armour-piercing tracer}}{{-}}{{Annotation|HEF-I*|High-explosive fragmentation incendiary (self-destroying)}}
* '''30 mm HEI:''' {{Annotation|HEF-I*|High-explosive fragmentation incendiary (self-destroying)}}{{-}}{{Annotation|HEF-T*|High-explosive fragmentation tracer (self-destroying)}}{{-}}{{Annotation|HEF-I*|High-explosive fragmentation incendiary (self-destroying)}}{{-}}{{Annotation|AP-T|Armour-piercing tracer}}
* '''30 mm APT:''' {{Annotation|AP-T|Armour-piercing tracer}}{{-}}{{Annotation|AP-T|Armour-piercing tracer}}{{-}}{{Annotation|AP-T|Armour-piercing tracer}}{{-}}{{Annotation|HEF-I*|High-explosive fragmentation incendiary (self-destroying)}}

{{:2A38M (30 mm)/Ammunition|HEF-I*, AP-T, HEF-T*}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! 6th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''4''' || __ ''(+__)'' || __ ''(+__)'' || __ ''(+__)'' || __ ''(+__)'' || __ ''(+__)'' || __ ''(+__)'' || __
|-
|}

=== Additional armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|95Ya6}}

''Some tanks are armed with several guns in one or more turrets. Evaluate the additional weaponry and give advice on its use. Describe the ammunition available for additional weaponry. Give advice on about how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage. If there is no additional weaponry remove this subsection.''

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[95Ya6]] missile
|-
! Capacity (Belt) !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
|-
| 12 (12) || 0°/+85° || - || -
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{{:95Ya6/Ammunition|95Ya6}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! 6th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''1''' || __ ''(+__)'' || __ ''(+__)'' || __ ''(+__)'' || __ ''(+__)'' || __ ''(+__)'' || __ ''(+__)'' || __
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

The Pantsir-S1 is the final word when it comes to Russian self-propelled anti-air technology, and as such affords the player much more flexibility when it comes to anti-air operations than ever before. The radar can be toggled to scan the skies in varying degrees of elevation and speed; players can choose the 30 degree mode for lower flying targets on the horizon with faster update speeds or the 80 degree mode allowing for unparalleled ability to target high flying targets at a cost of update speed, or a compromise between both with the 60 degree mode. Either way, with skilful toggling, there is little of the sky that the Pantsir-S1 cannot touch thanks to its new 95Ya6 missiles that can fly out to 20 km at nearly 50% faster top speed than the 9M311 missiles on the Tunguska. Complementary to the enhanced radar and missile suite is a very powerful gunner optic that can zoom to 28x, allowing for better target recognition and acquisition on the battlefield.

As much as it is an upgrade over the 2S6 Tunguska in the relevant fields, it does also have reduced tactical mobility owing to its turret being mounted on a truck and not the GM chassis that the Tunguska was built on. As a result, the versatility of the Tunguska that its users have come to be familiar with, are now discarded and will require an extremely cautious and defensive gameplay more so than ever before as you will be a priority target for anyone in the air that can destroy you. Staying behind teammates and utilising low terrain and cover will aid your survival, just like with the previous SPAAs.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* New high performance radar suite that can detect and track targets at ranges beyond 30 km and 18 km, respectively
* 95Ya6 missile is unparalleled in flight range, with flight performance and overload limit comparable to NATO's top tier missiles like VT1
* 28x zoom gunner optics combined with 2nd+ gen thermal sight and a longer range IRST tracking, reducing dependence on radar tracking as needed
* 2A38M autocannons as installed on the Tunguska, allowing Pantsir-S1 some attack capability at close range against both AFVs and planes
* 50% more missiles than the 2S6 Tunguska (12 vs 8) means that the Pantsir-S1 can shoot down more aircraft before having to reload
* Has the ability to track, target and fire upon multiple targets within its tracking radar's azimuth simultaneously.
* Can reliably detect and intercept air to ground weaponry, namely the AGM-65 Maverick.

'''Cons:'''

* No neutral steering like its predecessor, Tunguska, owing to the system being a wheeled truck, not tracked chassis
* No hydropneumatic suspension as used on its predecessor, meaning the Pantsir can't lower its massive profile
* Very horrible reverse speed on par with the T-72/T-90 series of MBTs, disallowing tactical retreats
* Basically no depression at all, severely reducing capability should the Pantsir find itself on high ground
* Like most SPAAs, it has next to no armour. Not getting hit is of utmost importance
* Has a huge profile that rivals the German FlakRakRad, that can't be reduced whatsoever outside of disabling radar and using IRST over radar tracking
* Mobility and acceleration is so low, such that it is reminiscent of the ZSU-23-4 Shilka

== History ==


The 96K6 Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile and artillery system, developed in the mid-1990s, was designed to protect strategically important areas, troops and long-range air defense systems. Due to the economic crisis in Russia, the development of the system was sluggish, but hot boosted in the late 90s, with new tactical requirements appearing for export of the system to the UAE. The modified Pantsir with a long-range radar also began to enter service with the Russian army, primarily in the air defense units. The version on the chassis of the KamAZ 8x8 truck appeared in 2006, and after successfully passing the tests, the Pantsir-S1 modification was put into trial operation, and in 2012 commissioned for service. At the moment, systems of the Pantsir family are in service with the Russian army and are constantly upgraded. The air defense system is intensively exported, the largest foreign operators of the Pantsir systems are Morocco, Syria, Algeria, Iraq and other countries.

''- From [[wt:en/news/8123-development-96k6-pantsir-s1-the-ultimatum-en|Devblog]]''

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=ussr_pantsyr_s1 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Images
<gallery mode="packed-hover" heights="200">
File:Pantsir-S1 WTWallpaper001.jpg
</gallery>

== See also ==

''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''

* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/8123-development-96k6-pantsir-s1-the-ultimatum-en|[Devblog] 96K6 Pantsir-S1: The Ultimatum]]

{{USSR anti-aircraft vehicles}}
[[Category:Wheeled ground vehicles]]

P-61C-1

2023-03-23T01:48:21Z

U77257111: /* Usage in battles */

{{About
| about = American twin-engine fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = the premium version
| link = P-61A-11
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=p-61c_1
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
|cockpit=cockpit_p-61c_1.jpg
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} American twin-engine fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.57 "Battle March"]].

The Northrop {{PAGENAME}} Black Widow is a heavy twin-engine strike fighter designed as the USAAF's first dedicated night-fighter and aircraft outfitted with radar. Though a large aircraft with a crew of three (pilot, turret gunner and radio/radar operator/gunner), the Black Widow utilised its speed, radar, and weapons advantages to dispatch enemy aircraft in the dead of night.

The {{PAGENAME}} is powered by dual Pratt & Whitney R-2800-73 double wasp engines, the same engines which powered the Republic P-47N Thunderbolt. The one difference between the Thunderbolt's -57C and the -73s built explicitly for the P-61 was each had a General Electric CH-5-A3 turbocharger installed. The modified engines allowed the {{PAGENAME}} to fly at all altitudes effectively. While outfitted with powerful engines, turning the aircraft causes loss of energy, and such manoeuvres should be limited as places the aircraft in vulnerable situations.
[[File:P-61c-1 bomberpilot1784 001.png|300px|thumb|left|Three-quarter view of a '''{{PAGENAME}}''' in standard all-black night-fighter paint scheme.]]

One of the roles of the {{PAGENAME}} is to operate as a bomber interceptor. During these operations, if detected, the heavy fighter is likely to encounter defensive fire. To increase survivability and protection of the crew, the Black Widow utilizes various bulletproof glass and armour protective plates throughout the fighter. The gunner who operates the remote turret has the option to utilise armour plates, which fold out of the way when not in use. The crew member sitting in the aft of the aircraft has the least amount of armour protection but is the least likely to be shot at unless being attacked from the rear.

The armament configuration of the {{PAGENAME}} is unique compared to most fighters which either utilise nose-mounted or wing-mounted guns. The Black Widow incorporates two weapon systems, the first consisting of four 20 mm AN/M2 autocannons mounted in the belly of the aircraft with 200 RPG, or 800 rounds total. Convergence is not a factor when utilising these guns. The aircraft also incorporates a dorsal turret outfitted with four 50 calibre machine guns (2,120 rounds or 530 RPG), which can be remotely operated by the gunner or the radio/radar operator. The turret has 360-degree mobility and can fire at elevations up to 90-degrees. The turret cannot depress lower than horizontal or else it would risk firing into the wings, cockpit, tail booms or tail section. The dorsal turret is utilised for both offensive and defensive uses.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

[[File:P-61c-1 argiegrit 002.jpg|300px|thumb|right|'''{{PAGENAME}}''' opening up with its four 20 mm autocannons.]]
The P-61 climbs very well compared to twin-engine fighters from other countries. The engines overheat very slowly even when stock, while never really overheating at all when fully upgraded if using MEC or just being careful with the control of the engines. The turn rate is very slow, but to be expected from a twin-engined heavy fighter with a turret. The air brakes are very efficient, helping you slow down quickly in dives or when landing.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 7,100 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 656 || 643 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 26.3 || 27.5 || 12.2 || 12.2 || rowspan="2" | 457
|-
! Upgraded
| 732 || 692 || 23.8 || 25.0 || 21.3 || 16.0
|-
|}

;Takeoff and landing speeds (critical for Simulator battles)- all speeds in km/h

* AB: 173 RB/SB: 163 - VR (aircraft rotate speed) - The speed at which the aircraft's control stick can safely be pulled back for takeoff, causing liftoff without risk of a tailstrike on the runway.
* AB: 126 RB/SB: 120 - VS0 - Landing speed with full flaps (depending on the aircraft, this could be landing flaps or take-off flaps).
* AB: 148 RB/SB: 145 - VS1 - Landing speed ''without'' flaps (clean). Knowing this speed is useful when the flaps are damaged or missing to prevent spins or tail strikes upon landing.

==== Details ====
[[File:P-61_airbrakes_and_spoilers_extended.jpg|400px|thumb|right|A view of the {{PAGENAME}} Black Widow's wing. Note the air brakes, "fences" are fully extended on the upper and lower surface of the wings. Also, note the long spoiler extended on the upper surface of the wing replaced ailerons due to increased efficiency at high speeds. The P-61 was the only aircraft in US inventory during WWII which utilised spoilers.]]
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear
|-
| ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 726  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || 340 || 337 || 280 || ~7 || ~3
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 530 || < 420 || < 450 || > 337
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


* 12.7 mm Steel - Nose armour plating (behind radar unit)
* 60 mm Bulletproof glass - Pilot and gunner armoured windscreens
* 12.7 mm Steel - Gunner front armour (folds out of the way when not in use)
* 12.7 mm Steel - Lower gun plate
* 9.5 mm Steel - Gun turret ammo protection plates
* 12.7 mm Steel - Turret protection plate

With such beefy engines on the {{PAGENAME}} it stood to reason that armour protection would be necessary to help protect the pilot and the gunner during a conflict against a potential bomber or attacker aircraft which may have defensive gunner positions. Since the main source of incoming bullets would most likely come towards the front of the {{PAGENAME}} from defensive positions, it was reasonable to protect both the pilot and the gunner position, while the radio/radar operator received most of their protection from the gun turret and radio/radar equipment as there is no protection provided from the rear plane of the aircraft.

The pilot is afforded protection through the bulletproof canopy windscreen which is 60 mm thick and a 12.7 mm steel plate located directly behind the radar unit in the nose. These two items will aid to protect the pilot in the event a bomber or attacker's defensive gunners fire on an attacking {{PAGENAME}}, however, note that these protections will wane in their ability if the pilot of the Black Widow decides to take another aircraft head-on, especially if that aircraft is sporting 20 or 30 mm autocannons.

The {{PAGENAME}}'s gunner sits directly behind the pilot, however, his station is slightly elevated giving him an unobstructed view of the front and side of the aircraft, allowing him great visibility to be able to aim and fire the machine gun turret. Since the gunner station is elevated, the gunner is exposed to incoming fire which the pilot's protective plate and armoured windscreen will not cover. To remediate this there are two 12.7 mm steel plates which the gunner can swing in front of him for protection or out of the way when not in use.

The rest of the armour protection for this aircraft are several steel plates which protect the critical components and the ammunition of the turret. Since the turret is mechanical in operation (remotely by the gunner or radio/radar operator), it is important that critical components are protected to ensure continued usage, as when the remote components fail, the turret is useless. Protecting the ammunition storage is also important not only to have it available for usage, setting the ammunition on fire or off in the storage container could cause catastrophic results to the aircraft and crew in the event they start firing.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

The P-61C-1 is a thoroughbred Boom & Zoom aircraft. However, when the plane is first unlocked the flight performance will be very lacklustre to support this tactic. As such, the initial priority should be to improve the aircraft, by researching the upgrades that improve flight performance the most, namely Compressor, Engine and Engine injection. When the flight performance has reached a satisfactory level to allow for effective Boom & Zoom tactics, the priority should be switched towards researching the New 20 mm cannons upgrade in order to improve the accuracy of the cannons. After this is done, either finish upgrading the flight performance or focus on the turret upgrade. The bomb racks should be left to research last, as they are not critical to the P-61's main role as a fighter.

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|AN/M2 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 4 x 20 mm AN/M2 cannons, belly-mounted (200 rpg = 800 total)

The {{PAGENAME}} is armed with 4 x 20 mm AN/M2 autocannons which are mounted in the belly of the fuselage just below the cockpit. Each cannon is outfitted with 200 rounds which may not seem like very much, but for those who are conservative by maintaining trigger control (short bursts), the ammunition will go a long way. Having the guns clustered along the lower fuselage allows for both in-close and longer-ranged shots without the necessity of having to calculate for convergence, the only factor will be bullet-drop over a distance which comes with practice. The cannons are very effective when used against any aerial vehicle encountered as they have no problem disabling engines and destroying wings or puncturing fuel tanks.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|AN-M64A1 (500 lb)|AN-M65A1 (1,000 lb)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 4 x 500 lb AN-M64A1 bombs (2,000 lb total)
* 4 x 1,000 lb AN-M65A1 bombs (4,000 lb total)

The {{PAGENAME}} is typically used as a night or strike fighter which is used to sneak up on unwary targets and destroy them with the four forward-facing 20 mm autocannons, however, there is an opportunity to mix it up as a multi-role aircraft and outfit the plane with bombs. There are four external hardpoint pylons in which either 500 lb or 1,000 lb bombs can be loaded for a total of either 2,000 or 4,000 lbs of bombs. With payloads like this, the {{PAGENAME}} can rival the [[B-25 (Family)|B-25]] bombers in their payload deliveries. Unfortunately, for a strike fighter, the {{PAGENAME}}'s flight performance and manoeuvrability suffer when adding the extra 2,000 or 4,000 lbs of weight and can be a challenge to fly when attacked, however after the bombs have been released on their target, the {{PAGENAME}} can get back to its heavy-fighter role.

[[File:P-61_upperturret_cone_of_fire.jpg|350px|thumb|right|The cones of fire for the upper machine gun turret on the {{PAGENAME}}.]]
=== Defensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Defensive}}

{{main|M2 Browning (12.7 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is defended by:

* 4 x 12.7 mm M2 Browning machine guns, dorsal turret (560 rpg = 2,240 total)

It is interesting to note that later fighters started to reduce or eliminate the ability to carry defensive weapons in order to help save on weight and crew needed to staff the aircraft, however, it was deemed necessary that the {{PAGENAME}} should have a defensive turret. Utilising state-of-the-art technology, four .50 calibre machine guns were mounted on a dorsal turret which could be remotely controlled by either the gunner (sitting behind the pilot) or the radio/radar operator located in a separate compartment at the rear of the fuselage. The four machine guns in the dorsal turret had virtually a full 360° rotation field with an elevation straight up. Effectively the only dead zones for this turret were the upper propeller arcs and the vertical stabilizers to the rear. When enemy aircraft attempt to sit on the rear of the aircraft, the pilot will need to pitch the aircraft up and to one side or the other to allow the gunner the best possible chance of bearing the turret down on the enemy fighter.

== Usage in battles ==

[[File:P-61c-1 knightskeemo 001.jpg|300px|thumb|right|Heavy vs heavy.]]
The below tactics are recommended for all game modes:

'''How to offensively engage an enemy aircraft:''' Climb to high altitude and keep on a straight heading once you have seen the enemy. Overshoot the enemy plane, then perform a 180-degree turn. Make sure you stay on his tail and gradually descend. It is recommended to do something similar to a shallow descent, where you can keep speed and height to your advantage in case the enemy aircraft changes course and altitude. Do not perform a dive which requires you to dive straight down since you will rip the wings off and crash. Once you are within firing range, fire a short salvo from your cannons. A couple of bursts from the Black Widow are sufficient to easily rip an enemy plane to shreds.

'''How to properly engage enemy bombers:''' Bombers at this battle rating tend to have quite strong defensive armaments, namely the Me264. To avoid defensive fire, approach the bomber from below, and maintain a distance of 1.5-2.5km away. Rather than engaging the bomber with the cannons, use the turret and fire bursts into the bomber from afar. The great ballistics of the .50 calibre machine guns on the turret make it quite easy to pepper bombers from afar, and deal quite reasonable damage(often cause fires). The idea behind this tactic is to basically dismantle the enemy bomber by firing from long distances as to avoid any retaliation. This tactic is especially effective against bombers at high altitudes.

'''How to perform defensive fighting:''' When you are being engaged by an enemy fighter, make sure you keep descending. Do not allow enemy aircraft to get lower than your elevator on the tail boom. You have no defensive armament to cover the belly or full-rear of the plane; these are your weakest defended parts.

*Tactic one: Descend slowly. Put the plane in a steep dive that does not exceed your structural limit. However, it must be steep enough to provide the turret gunner full visibility of the enemy plane. The four [[Browning M2 (12.7 mm)|Browning machine guns]] will take care of the enemy plane.

*Tactic Two: Put the plane in a steep climb and make sure you set the throttle to at least 70%. Jump into the gunner turret and operate it. This will be the most accurate and fastest way of shooting down the hostile plane. When you operate the turret, make sure you try and perform defensive manoeuvres when operating it i.e. sharp turns, rapidly decreasing in height as well as gaining height and changing the speed of the plane in an irrational way. This will give you a higher chance of survival against the enemy.

*Tactic Three: Fly the plane almost touching the ground, this way the enemy can't get under your gunners. Use rudder yaw to fly side to side while shooting back at your pursuer. With a few hits you can heavily damage if not take out the enemy following you, or at least make them break off from your six and hopfully one of your allies can come and help you. If the enemy is not very fast in a straight line (eg: Japanese fighters, etc) you can fly straight and use your better top speed to kite the enemy.

===Radars===
{{main|AI Mk. X}}
[[File:P-61_-_Nose_Radar.jpg|250px|thumb|right|A front view of a {{PAGENAME}}'s [[AI Mk. X]] radar.]]
The P-61C-1 is equipped with an [[AI Mk. X]] search radar, located in the nose of the aircraft. The radar utilised a 29 in (74 cm) parabolic dish which it rotated at 360 rpm when set to ranges below 100 miles, however, it is slowed down to 100 rpm when set to the 100 miles setting. The scopes could be set to one of four ranges, 1, 10, 20 or 100 miles (1.6, 16, 32 or 160 km). The parabolic dish could be adjusted to different altitude settings which included 0° to 0°, -5° to +5°, +5° to +20°, and +20° to +50°. One of the benefits to the multiple choices in range and altitude settings of the radar was that it provided partial immunity to chaff and other radar interference or countermeasures deployed by the enemy.
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="4" | [[AI Mk. X]] - Target Detection Radar
|-
! {{Annotation|Maximum Detection Range|The maximum possible range at which a target can be detected}}
! {{Annotation|Guaranteed Detection Range|The range, below which, detection of a target is practically guaranteed}}
! {{Annotation|Max Azimuth Scan Angle|How far to each side the radar can scan (widest search mode)}}
! {{Annotation|Max Elevation Scan Angle|How far up and down the radar can scan (widest search mode)}}
|-
| 14,000 m || 8,500 m || ±75° || -20°/+40°
|-
|}
[[File:P-61_cockpit_pilots_radar_indicator.png|250px|thumb|right|A view of a {{PAGENAME}} pilot's instrument panel with a BC-1152-A pilots indicator portion of the [[AI Mk. X]] radar. (''The BC-1152-A is the square box with the rectangular window just above the control yoke'')]]

=== Manual Engine Control ===
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="7" | MEC elements
|-
! rowspan="2" | Mixer
! rowspan="2" | Pitch
! colspan="3" | Radiator
! rowspan="2" | Supercharger
! rowspan="2" | Turbocharger
|-
! Oil !! Water !! Type
|-
| Controllable || Controllable Not auto controlled || Controllable Auto control available || Controllable Auto control available || Separate || Not controllable 1 gear || Not controllable
|-
|}

* Fully close the Oil and Water radiator.
* Set prop pitch to ~90-100% and hold down WEP.
* Climb to ~6 km altitude at a speed of 240-270 km/h (150-170 mph).
* Overall this guarantees a climb rate far higher than 16 m/s and with the plane having a automatic exhaust based turbo.
* High altitude performance will far exceed that of a Bf 109 where you can out climb them, forcing them to stall before booming and zooming them back to 6 km altitude.
* When cruising, 70% on pitch is ideal and you can set it to 100% with your airbrakes when you need to dive and search for planes with the radar.
* On desert maps, the engine can begin to heat but 20% oil radiator is usually sufficient to curb the overheating.
* When the engines take damage, ensure you open then water radiator more than 30%, when at altitudes above 6,000 m, as fully opening the radiators has no effect on speed.

=== Pros and cons ===

[[File:P-61c-1 iscari 002.jpg|300px|thumb|right|A {{PAGENAME}} night-fighter as seen at night, virtually invisible.]]
'''Pros:'''

* The offensive armament is mounted under the belly of the plane, this provides excellent accuracy
* Powerful offensive armament with 4 x [[AN/M2 (20 mm)|AN/M2]] cannons with a total amount of 800 rounds
* Powerful defensive armament with 4 x [[Browning M2 (12.7 mm)|Browning]] machine guns in a rotating turret, a total of 2,240 rounds
* Defensive armament is able to be used offensively by the gunner, also remotely controlled
* Defensive turret can elevate to a full 90 degrees, can provide a Schräge Musik-like surprise of its own to enemy bombers, providing the P-61 is below the bomber and in the enemy bomber gunners' dead zones
* Very stable climb rate
* Engines are able to cool down very fast
* Able to perform sharp movements at low and high speed
* Excellent bomber hunter
* Very strong and rugged airframe; is able to fly with wing tips missing
* Can keep a lot of momentum from a gradual dive
* Can carry 4 x 1,000 lb bombs: enough to fully destroy one base or four light pillboxes
* Air brakes installed, allows you to slow down faster for a bomb run or landing
* Powerful engines when upgraded giving great acceleration
* Can fly on one engine
* Fairly good roll rate at high speeds thanks to spoilers
* Very little adverse yaw effect thanks to spoilers (SB)
* Has access to a target detection radar, with much better range than German radars found around this battle rating
* Low stalling speed, enabling it to land on carriers

[[File:P-61c-1 iscari 001.jpg|300px|thumb|right|The fearsome {{PAGENAME}} bearing down on an opponent]]
'''Cons:'''

* Slow acceleration when not upgraded and requires a long airstrip to take off due to weight
* Uncompetitive roll rate at slow speeds
* Bad turn rate (utilise Immelmann turns, chandelles or normal loops)
* Due to size, slow to gain speed in a dive, however, can exceed structural limits if not careful. Per the pilot's manual while in a dive:
** Between 0 - 10,000 ft do not exceed 415 mph IAS
** Between 10,000 - 20,000 ft do not exceed 375 mph IAS
** Between 20,000 - 30,000 ft do not exceed 305 mph IAS
* Bottom of aircraft is unprotected (utilise climbs and/or dives that does not exceed the structural limits of the plane, along with manually controlling the gunner to protect the bottom of the aircraft, though not completely)
* Large body airframe, not meant for turn-fighting (Boom & Zoom or Boom & Run)
* Dorsal turret might hit friendlies when active under AI control during furballs or when you're behind friendlies chasing an enemy
* Loses tail control pretty easily

== History ==

P-61C is the final production version of the P-61 family with the production primarily in 1945. The most notable changes are the turbocharger fitted under each engine and the redesigned larger propeller system. With the turbocharger made by General Electric, the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 engine could output 2,800 hp each. Alongside the larger propeller, P-61C could perform much better at higher altitude. The 4 hardpoints under the wings for external fuel tanks and bombs from the P-61B variants were also kept, allowing the P-61C to not only perform as a night fighter, but also as a night intruder. Airbrakes were also added so P-61C would not overshoot its intended targets.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=p-61c_1 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Images
<gallery mode="packed" heights="200">
File:P-61 rearview.jpg|Rear view of the P-61's aerodynamic airframe
File:P-61c-1 zippitydoodah 001.jpg
File:P-61c-1 argiegrit 001.jpg
</gallery>

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|Qyr_aw3YTe8|'''The Shooting Range #2''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 02:59 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|rpp-GqXiaKg|'''The Shooting Range #214''' - ''Pages of History'' section at 04:41 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|B_KJXo2w0IQ|'''P-61 BLACK WIDOW: America's Night-Interceptor''' - ''jimi daen''|_iGQOR9Dtyg|'''BLACK WIDOW - The P-61C-1 RB Gameplay''' - ''MikeGoesBoom''|fL0pyZ5VZSM|'''War Thunder Arcade- P-61C-1 Black Widow''' - ''Jengar''}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[P-61A-11]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/devblog/current/869|[Devblog] P-61: The American "Flying Tank"]]
* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/303450-northrop-p-61c-1/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]
* [https://ia801208.us.archive.org/33/items/PilotTrainingManualForTheBlackWidowP61/PilotTrainingManualForTheBlackWidowP-61.pdf Pilot Training Manual for the P-61 Black Widow][[File:Pdf_fileicon.png|.pdf document|link=]] - By Headquarters Army Air Forces - Office of Flying Safety, 1944
* [https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/p-61-pilots-manual.6789/ Northrop P-61 Black Widow Pilot's Flight Operations Instructions][[File:Pdf_fileicon.png|.pdf document|link=]] - Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions for Army Model P-61C Airplane, July 1945, ISBN:[https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=isbn:9781411689008 978-1-4116-8900-8]

{{AirManufacturer Northrop}}
{{USA twin-engine fighters}}

P-61C-1

2023-03-23T01:46:39Z

U77257111: Added additional information to "Usage in Battles" tab. Explaining how to properly engage bombers safely.

{{About
| about = American twin-engine fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = the premium version
| link = P-61A-11
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=p-61c_1
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
|cockpit=cockpit_p-61c_1.jpg
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} American twin-engine fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.57 "Battle March"]].

The Northrop {{PAGENAME}} Black Widow is a heavy twin-engine strike fighter designed as the USAAF's first dedicated night-fighter and aircraft outfitted with radar. Though a large aircraft with a crew of three (pilot, turret gunner and radio/radar operator/gunner), the Black Widow utilised its speed, radar, and weapons advantages to dispatch enemy aircraft in the dead of night.

The {{PAGENAME}} is powered by dual Pratt & Whitney R-2800-73 double wasp engines, the same engines which powered the Republic P-47N Thunderbolt. The one difference between the Thunderbolt's -57C and the -73s built explicitly for the P-61 was each had a General Electric CH-5-A3 turbocharger installed. The modified engines allowed the {{PAGENAME}} to fly at all altitudes effectively. While outfitted with powerful engines, turning the aircraft causes loss of energy, and such manoeuvres should be limited as places the aircraft in vulnerable situations.
[[File:P-61c-1 bomberpilot1784 001.png|300px|thumb|left|Three-quarter view of a '''{{PAGENAME}}''' in standard all-black night-fighter paint scheme.]]

One of the roles of the {{PAGENAME}} is to operate as a bomber interceptor. During these operations, if detected, the heavy fighter is likely to encounter defensive fire. To increase survivability and protection of the crew, the Black Widow utilizes various bulletproof glass and armour protective plates throughout the fighter. The gunner who operates the remote turret has the option to utilise armour plates, which fold out of the way when not in use. The crew member sitting in the aft of the aircraft has the least amount of armour protection but is the least likely to be shot at unless being attacked from the rear.

The armament configuration of the {{PAGENAME}} is unique compared to most fighters which either utilise nose-mounted or wing-mounted guns. The Black Widow incorporates two weapon systems, the first consisting of four 20 mm AN/M2 autocannons mounted in the belly of the aircraft with 200 RPG, or 800 rounds total. Convergence is not a factor when utilising these guns. The aircraft also incorporates a dorsal turret outfitted with four 50 calibre machine guns (2,120 rounds or 530 RPG), which can be remotely operated by the gunner or the radio/radar operator. The turret has 360-degree mobility and can fire at elevations up to 90-degrees. The turret cannot depress lower than horizontal or else it would risk firing into the wings, cockpit, tail booms or tail section. The dorsal turret is utilised for both offensive and defensive uses.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

[[File:P-61c-1 argiegrit 002.jpg|300px|thumb|right|'''{{PAGENAME}}''' opening up with its four 20 mm autocannons.]]
The P-61 climbs very well compared to twin-engine fighters from other countries. The engines overheat very slowly even when stock, while never really overheating at all when fully upgraded if using MEC or just being careful with the control of the engines. The turn rate is very slow, but to be expected from a twin-engined heavy fighter with a turret. The air brakes are very efficient, helping you slow down quickly in dives or when landing.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 7,100 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 656 || 643 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 26.3 || 27.5 || 12.2 || 12.2 || rowspan="2" | 457
|-
! Upgraded
| 732 || 692 || 23.8 || 25.0 || 21.3 || 16.0
|-
|}

;Takeoff and landing speeds (critical for Simulator battles)- all speeds in km/h

* AB: 173 RB/SB: 163 - VR (aircraft rotate speed) - The speed at which the aircraft's control stick can safely be pulled back for takeoff, causing liftoff without risk of a tailstrike on the runway.
* AB: 126 RB/SB: 120 - VS0 - Landing speed with full flaps (depending on the aircraft, this could be landing flaps or take-off flaps).
* AB: 148 RB/SB: 145 - VS1 - Landing speed ''without'' flaps (clean). Knowing this speed is useful when the flaps are damaged or missing to prevent spins or tail strikes upon landing.

==== Details ====
[[File:P-61_airbrakes_and_spoilers_extended.jpg|400px|thumb|right|A view of the {{PAGENAME}} Black Widow's wing. Note the air brakes, "fences" are fully extended on the upper and lower surface of the wings. Also, note the long spoiler extended on the upper surface of the wing replaced ailerons due to increased efficiency at high speeds. The P-61 was the only aircraft in US inventory during WWII which utilised spoilers.]]
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear
|-
| ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 726  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || 340 || 337 || 280 || ~7 || ~3
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 530 || < 420 || < 450 || > 337
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


* 12.7 mm Steel - Nose armour plating (behind radar unit)
* 60 mm Bulletproof glass - Pilot and gunner armoured windscreens
* 12.7 mm Steel - Gunner front armour (folds out of the way when not in use)
* 12.7 mm Steel - Lower gun plate
* 9.5 mm Steel - Gun turret ammo protection plates
* 12.7 mm Steel - Turret protection plate

With such beefy engines on the {{PAGENAME}} it stood to reason that armour protection would be necessary to help protect the pilot and the gunner during a conflict against a potential bomber or attacker aircraft which may have defensive gunner positions. Since the main source of incoming bullets would most likely come towards the front of the {{PAGENAME}} from defensive positions, it was reasonable to protect both the pilot and the gunner position, while the radio/radar operator received most of their protection from the gun turret and radio/radar equipment as there is no protection provided from the rear plane of the aircraft.

The pilot is afforded protection through the bulletproof canopy windscreen which is 60 mm thick and a 12.7 mm steel plate located directly behind the radar unit in the nose. These two items will aid to protect the pilot in the event a bomber or attacker's defensive gunners fire on an attacking {{PAGENAME}}, however, note that these protections will wane in their ability if the pilot of the Black Widow decides to take another aircraft head-on, especially if that aircraft is sporting 20 or 30 mm autocannons.

The {{PAGENAME}}'s gunner sits directly behind the pilot, however, his station is slightly elevated giving him an unobstructed view of the front and side of the aircraft, allowing him great visibility to be able to aim and fire the machine gun turret. Since the gunner station is elevated, the gunner is exposed to incoming fire which the pilot's protective plate and armoured windscreen will not cover. To remediate this there are two 12.7 mm steel plates which the gunner can swing in front of him for protection or out of the way when not in use.

The rest of the armour protection for this aircraft are several steel plates which protect the critical components and the ammunition of the turret. Since the turret is mechanical in operation (remotely by the gunner or radio/radar operator), it is important that critical components are protected to ensure continued usage, as when the remote components fail, the turret is useless. Protecting the ammunition storage is also important not only to have it available for usage, setting the ammunition on fire or off in the storage container could cause catastrophic results to the aircraft and crew in the event they start firing.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

The P-61C-1 is a thoroughbred Boom & Zoom aircraft. However, when the plane is first unlocked the flight performance will be very lacklustre to support this tactic. As such, the initial priority should be to improve the aircraft, by researching the upgrades that improve flight performance the most, namely Compressor, Engine and Engine injection. When the flight performance has reached a satisfactory level to allow for effective Boom & Zoom tactics, the priority should be switched towards researching the New 20 mm cannons upgrade in order to improve the accuracy of the cannons. After this is done, either finish upgrading the flight performance or focus on the turret upgrade. The bomb racks should be left to research last, as they are not critical to the P-61's main role as a fighter.

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|AN/M2 (20 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 4 x 20 mm AN/M2 cannons, belly-mounted (200 rpg = 800 total)

The {{PAGENAME}} is armed with 4 x 20 mm AN/M2 autocannons which are mounted in the belly of the fuselage just below the cockpit. Each cannon is outfitted with 200 rounds which may not seem like very much, but for those who are conservative by maintaining trigger control (short bursts), the ammunition will go a long way. Having the guns clustered along the lower fuselage allows for both in-close and longer-ranged shots without the necessity of having to calculate for convergence, the only factor will be bullet-drop over a distance which comes with practice. The cannons are very effective when used against any aerial vehicle encountered as they have no problem disabling engines and destroying wings or puncturing fuel tanks.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|AN-M64A1 (500 lb)|AN-M65A1 (1,000 lb)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 4 x 500 lb AN-M64A1 bombs (2,000 lb total)
* 4 x 1,000 lb AN-M65A1 bombs (4,000 lb total)

The {{PAGENAME}} is typically used as a night or strike fighter which is used to sneak up on unwary targets and destroy them with the four forward-facing 20 mm autocannons, however, there is an opportunity to mix it up as a multi-role aircraft and outfit the plane with bombs. There are four external hardpoint pylons in which either 500 lb or 1,000 lb bombs can be loaded for a total of either 2,000 or 4,000 lbs of bombs. With payloads like this, the {{PAGENAME}} can rival the [[B-25 (Family)|B-25]] bombers in their payload deliveries. Unfortunately, for a strike fighter, the {{PAGENAME}}'s flight performance and manoeuvrability suffer when adding the extra 2,000 or 4,000 lbs of weight and can be a challenge to fly when attacked, however after the bombs have been released on their target, the {{PAGENAME}} can get back to its heavy-fighter role.

[[File:P-61_upperturret_cone_of_fire.jpg|350px|thumb|right|The cones of fire for the upper machine gun turret on the {{PAGENAME}}.]]
=== Defensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Defensive}}

{{main|M2 Browning (12.7 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is defended by:

* 4 x 12.7 mm M2 Browning machine guns, dorsal turret (560 rpg = 2,240 total)

It is interesting to note that later fighters started to reduce or eliminate the ability to carry defensive weapons in order to help save on weight and crew needed to staff the aircraft, however, it was deemed necessary that the {{PAGENAME}} should have a defensive turret. Utilising state-of-the-art technology, four .50 calibre machine guns were mounted on a dorsal turret which could be remotely controlled by either the gunner (sitting behind the pilot) or the radio/radar operator located in a separate compartment at the rear of the fuselage. The four machine guns in the dorsal turret had virtually a full 360° rotation field with an elevation straight up. Effectively the only dead zones for this turret were the upper propeller arcs and the vertical stabilizers to the rear. When enemy aircraft attempt to sit on the rear of the aircraft, the pilot will need to pitch the aircraft up and to one side or the other to allow the gunner the best possible chance of bearing the turret down on the enemy fighter.

== Usage in battles ==

[[File:P-61c-1 knightskeemo 001.jpg|300px|thumb|right|Heavy vs heavy.]]
The below tactics are recommended for all game modes:

'''How to offensively engage an enemy aircraft:''' Climb to high altitude and keep on a straight heading once you have seen the enemy. Overshoot the enemy plane, then perform a 180-degree turn. Make sure you stay on his tail and gradually descend. It is recommended to do something similar to a shallow descent, where you can keep speed and height to your advantage in case the enemy aircraft changes course and altitude. Do not perform a dive which requires you to dive straight down since you will rip the wings off and crash. Once you are within firing range, fire a short salvo from your cannons. A couple of bursts from the Black Widow are sufficient to easily rip an enemy plane to shreds.

'''How to properly engage enemy bombers:''' Bombers at this battle rating tend to have quite strong defensive armaments, namely the Me264. To avoid defensive fire, approach the bomber from below, and maintain a distance of 1.5-2.5km away. Rather than engaging the bomber with the cannons, use the turret and fire bursts into the bomber from afar. The great ballistics of the .50 cals on the turret will make it quite easy to pepper the bomber from afar, and deal quite respectable damage. The idea behind this tactic is to basically dismantle the enemy bomber by firing from long distances as to avoid any retaliation. This tactic is especially effective against bombers at high altitudes.

'''How to perform defensive fighting:''' When you are being engaged by an enemy fighter, make sure you keep descending. Do not allow enemy aircraft to get lower than your elevator on the tail boom. You have no defensive armament to cover the belly or full-rear of the plane; these are your weakest defended parts.

*Tactic one: Descend slowly. Put the plane in a steep dive that does not exceed your structural limit. However, it must be steep enough to provide the turret gunner full visibility of the enemy plane. The four [[Browning M2 (12.7 mm)|Browning machine guns]] will take care of the enemy plane.

*Tactic Two: Put the plane in a steep climb and make sure you set the throttle to at least 70%. Jump into the gunner turret and operate it. This will be the most accurate and fastest way of shooting down the hostile plane. When you operate the turret, make sure you try and perform defensive manoeuvres when operating it i.e. sharp turns, rapidly decreasing in height as well as gaining height and changing the speed of the plane in an irrational way. This will give you a higher chance of survival against the enemy.

*Tactic Three: Fly the plane almost touching the ground, this way the enemy can't get under your gunners. Use rudder yaw to fly side to side while shooting back at your pursuer. With a few hits you can heavily damage if not take out the enemy following you, or at least make them break off from your six and hopfully one of your allies can come and help you. If the enemy is not very fast in a straight line (eg: Japanese fighters, etc) you can fly straight and use your better top speed to kite the enemy.

===Radars===
{{main|AI Mk. X}}
[[File:P-61_-_Nose_Radar.jpg|250px|thumb|right|A front view of a {{PAGENAME}}'s [[AI Mk. X]] radar.]]
The P-61C-1 is equipped with an [[AI Mk. X]] search radar, located in the nose of the aircraft. The radar utilised a 29 in (74 cm) parabolic dish which it rotated at 360 rpm when set to ranges below 100 miles, however, it is slowed down to 100 rpm when set to the 100 miles setting. The scopes could be set to one of four ranges, 1, 10, 20 or 100 miles (1.6, 16, 32 or 160 km). The parabolic dish could be adjusted to different altitude settings which included 0° to 0°, -5° to +5°, +5° to +20°, and +20° to +50°. One of the benefits to the multiple choices in range and altitude settings of the radar was that it provided partial immunity to chaff and other radar interference or countermeasures deployed by the enemy.
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="4" | [[AI Mk. X]] - Target Detection Radar
|-
! {{Annotation|Maximum Detection Range|The maximum possible range at which a target can be detected}}
! {{Annotation|Guaranteed Detection Range|The range, below which, detection of a target is practically guaranteed}}
! {{Annotation|Max Azimuth Scan Angle|How far to each side the radar can scan (widest search mode)}}
! {{Annotation|Max Elevation Scan Angle|How far up and down the radar can scan (widest search mode)}}
|-
| 14,000 m || 8,500 m || ±75° || -20°/+40°
|-
|}
[[File:P-61_cockpit_pilots_radar_indicator.png|250px|thumb|right|A view of a {{PAGENAME}} pilot's instrument panel with a BC-1152-A pilots indicator portion of the [[AI Mk. X]] radar. (''The BC-1152-A is the square box with the rectangular window just above the control yoke'')]]

=== Manual Engine Control ===
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="7" | MEC elements
|-
! rowspan="2" | Mixer
! rowspan="2" | Pitch
! colspan="3" | Radiator
! rowspan="2" | Supercharger
! rowspan="2" | Turbocharger
|-
! Oil !! Water !! Type
|-
| Controllable || Controllable Not auto controlled || Controllable Auto control available || Controllable Auto control available || Separate || Not controllable 1 gear || Not controllable
|-
|}

* Fully close the Oil and Water radiator.
* Set prop pitch to ~90-100% and hold down WEP.
* Climb to ~6 km altitude at a speed of 240-270 km/h (150-170 mph).
* Overall this guarantees a climb rate far higher than 16 m/s and with the plane having a automatic exhaust based turbo.
* High altitude performance will far exceed that of a Bf 109 where you can out climb them, forcing them to stall before booming and zooming them back to 6 km altitude.
* When cruising, 70% on pitch is ideal and you can set it to 100% with your airbrakes when you need to dive and search for planes with the radar.
* On desert maps, the engine can begin to heat but 20% oil radiator is usually sufficient to curb the overheating.
* When the engines take damage, ensure you open then water radiator more than 30%, when at altitudes above 6,000 m, as fully opening the radiators has no effect on speed.

=== Pros and cons ===

[[File:P-61c-1 iscari 002.jpg|300px|thumb|right|A {{PAGENAME}} night-fighter as seen at night, virtually invisible.]]
'''Pros:'''

* The offensive armament is mounted under the belly of the plane, this provides excellent accuracy
* Powerful offensive armament with 4 x [[AN/M2 (20 mm)|AN/M2]] cannons with a total amount of 800 rounds
* Powerful defensive armament with 4 x [[Browning M2 (12.7 mm)|Browning]] machine guns in a rotating turret, a total of 2,240 rounds
* Defensive armament is able to be used offensively by the gunner, also remotely controlled
* Defensive turret can elevate to a full 90 degrees, can provide a Schräge Musik-like surprise of its own to enemy bombers, providing the P-61 is below the bomber and in the enemy bomber gunners' dead zones
* Very stable climb rate
* Engines are able to cool down very fast
* Able to perform sharp movements at low and high speed
* Excellent bomber hunter
* Very strong and rugged airframe; is able to fly with wing tips missing
* Can keep a lot of momentum from a gradual dive
* Can carry 4 x 1,000 lb bombs: enough to fully destroy one base or four light pillboxes
* Air brakes installed, allows you to slow down faster for a bomb run or landing
* Powerful engines when upgraded giving great acceleration
* Can fly on one engine
* Fairly good roll rate at high speeds thanks to spoilers
* Very little adverse yaw effect thanks to spoilers (SB)
* Has access to a target detection radar, with much better range than German radars found around this battle rating
* Low stalling speed, enabling it to land on carriers

[[File:P-61c-1 iscari 001.jpg|300px|thumb|right|The fearsome {{PAGENAME}} bearing down on an opponent]]
'''Cons:'''

* Slow acceleration when not upgraded and requires a long airstrip to take off due to weight
* Uncompetitive roll rate at slow speeds
* Bad turn rate (utilise Immelmann turns, chandelles or normal loops)
* Due to size, slow to gain speed in a dive, however, can exceed structural limits if not careful. Per the pilot's manual while in a dive:
** Between 0 - 10,000 ft do not exceed 415 mph IAS
** Between 10,000 - 20,000 ft do not exceed 375 mph IAS
** Between 20,000 - 30,000 ft do not exceed 305 mph IAS
* Bottom of aircraft is unprotected (utilise climbs and/or dives that does not exceed the structural limits of the plane, along with manually controlling the gunner to protect the bottom of the aircraft, though not completely)
* Large body airframe, not meant for turn-fighting (Boom & Zoom or Boom & Run)
* Dorsal turret might hit friendlies when active under AI control during furballs or when you're behind friendlies chasing an enemy
* Loses tail control pretty easily

== History ==

P-61C is the final production version of the P-61 family with the production primarily in 1945. The most notable changes are the turbocharger fitted under each engine and the redesigned larger propeller system. With the turbocharger made by General Electric, the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 engine could output 2,800 hp each. Alongside the larger propeller, P-61C could perform much better at higher altitude. The 4 hardpoints under the wings for external fuel tanks and bombs from the P-61B variants were also kept, allowing the P-61C to not only perform as a night fighter, but also as a night intruder. Airbrakes were also added so P-61C would not overshoot its intended targets.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=p-61c_1 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Images
<gallery mode="packed" heights="200">
File:P-61 rearview.jpg|Rear view of the P-61's aerodynamic airframe
File:P-61c-1 zippitydoodah 001.jpg
File:P-61c-1 argiegrit 001.jpg
</gallery>

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|Qyr_aw3YTe8|'''The Shooting Range #2''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 02:59 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|rpp-GqXiaKg|'''The Shooting Range #214''' - ''Pages of History'' section at 04:41 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|B_KJXo2w0IQ|'''P-61 BLACK WIDOW: America's Night-Interceptor''' - ''jimi daen''|_iGQOR9Dtyg|'''BLACK WIDOW - The P-61C-1 RB Gameplay''' - ''MikeGoesBoom''|fL0pyZ5VZSM|'''War Thunder Arcade- P-61C-1 Black Widow''' - ''Jengar''}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[P-61A-11]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/devblog/current/869|[Devblog] P-61: The American "Flying Tank"]]
* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/303450-northrop-p-61c-1/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]
* [https://ia801208.us.archive.org/33/items/PilotTrainingManualForTheBlackWidowP61/PilotTrainingManualForTheBlackWidowP-61.pdf Pilot Training Manual for the P-61 Black Widow][[File:Pdf_fileicon.png|.pdf document|link=]] - By Headquarters Army Air Forces - Office of Flying Safety, 1944
* [https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/p-61-pilots-manual.6789/ Northrop P-61 Black Widow Pilot's Flight Operations Instructions][[File:Pdf_fileicon.png|.pdf document|link=]] - Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions for Army Model P-61C Airplane, July 1945, ISBN:[https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=isbn:9781411689008 978-1-4116-8900-8]

{{AirManufacturer Northrop}}
{{USA twin-engine fighters}}

MiG-17AS

2023-03-23T01:32:32Z

U77257111: Added a con to the pros and cons section

{{About
| about = gift Soviet jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = MiG-17 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=mig-17_cuba
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]]. It was removed from the Gaijin store after the [[wt:en/news/7674-shop-may-sale-en|2022 May sale]] and is currently unobtainable in-game.

As a {{PAGENAME}} flying in Cuban colors, the plane represents a fighter-bomber version of the [[MiG-17]] series that was exported to Cuba in 1964.

== General info ==
[[File:MiG-17 Cockpit (2022).png|thumb|The '''MiG-17AS'''' instrument panel.]]

=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


The MiG-17AS is powered by the Klimov VK-1 jet engine, the same as the engine found on the [[MiG-17]]. This engine performs well at higher altitudes, and affords this vehicle much better high-altitude flight characteristics than its American counterpart, the [[F-86 (Family)|F-86]]. This also means that the MiG-17 performs much better in vertical manoeuvres than many other aircraft. The engine also gives this vehicle very good energy retention and a high climb rate. At high speeds (>900 km/h), the aircraft experiences compression and loses roll and pitch authority.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 2,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 1,097 || 1,061 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 22.2 || 23.2 || 41.2 || 39.1 || rowspan="2" | 475
|-
! Upgraded
| 1,128 || 1,114 || 21.2 || 21.5 || 59.9 || 50.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || X 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,093  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 598 || 450 || ~12 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 600 || < 700 || < 750 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Klimov VK-1 || 1
| colspan="2" | 3,958 kg || colspan="2" | 227 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel
|-
| 892 kg || colspan="2" | Centrifugal-flow turbojet
| 4,310 kg || 4,755 kg || 5,130 kg || 5,485 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (100%)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 2,450 kgf || N/A
| 0.57 || 0.52 || 0.48 || 0.45
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 2,450 kgf (0 km/h) || N/A
| 0.57 || 0.52 || 0.48 || 0.45
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

[[File:MiG-17AS Armour Scheme.png|right|thumb|The armour plates on the {{PAGENAME}}.]]
The {{PAGENAME}} armour around the pilot is a bit more substantial than that seen on F-86 Sabres. With a large 10 mm steel plate in the nose, this armour protects both the pilot and the fuel tank from any glancing frontal shots from going through and causing damage. A 60 mm bullet proof glass is also present in front of the pilot, which may also offer some ballistic protection against machine gun rounds. However, the glass and steel armour are not substantial enough to take a head-on attack from a similar aircraft, so don't use these as a safety net from head-on attacks. 16 mm steel plates cover the pilot's seat, which will protect the pilot against any glancing shots approaching from the rear, but it does not protect the fuel tank.

The {{PAGENAME}} structure overall is minimal, with the a lot of empty spaces in the fuselage and tail, but the control surfaces all over are still vulnerable to being cut and driving the {{PAGENAME}} out of control. Although there are two self-sealing fuel tanks on the {{PAGENAME}}, the largest one is seated right behind the pilot and so can be prone to being hit. This means an enemy that misses an attempt at a pilot snipe can still have a chance of hitting the fuel tank and igniting it, causing crippling damages to the overall {{PAGENAME}} structure.

Like the MiG-15 before it, if the tail vertical stabilizer gets knocked off the plane, so are the elevators, leaving the aircraft helpless if not already determined a victory by the score system to the offending enemy.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|N-37D (37 mm)|NR-23 (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 1 x 37 mm N-37D cannon, chin-mounted (40 rpg)
* 2 x 23 mm NR-23 cannons, chin-mounted (80 rpg = 160 total)

The Nudelman N-37D was a 37 mm autocannon which replaced the Nudelman-Suranov NS-37 autocannons. The N-37D was 30% lighter than the NS-37, but to lighten the load, a sacrifice was made causing a 23% drop in muzzle velocity in comparison. Even with the loss of muzzle velocity, this autocannon can still fire at 400 rounds per minute which equates to just over six per second, emptying the belt in just over 7 seconds if the firing button is continuously held and the gun does not jam. The continuous fire of this weapon should not be attempted as only one or two rounds is enough to take down the largest of aircraft, though a dodging fighter may take a few more rounds before one connects.

The Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 was a 23 mm autocannon which was widely used on many Soviet aircraft. The NR-23 has a faster muzzle velocity over the N-37D by 200 m/s, firing them at the same time will not result in them landing in the same place as the N-37D will begin to drop sooner. Firing at around 900 rounds per minute, the NR-23 can unload a good amount of ammunition downrange, however, with a limited supply of only 80 rounds per gun, it is best to fire in small bursts when the pilot has a good gun solution. Firing in "hopes" to hit the target will result in many missed and wasted shots and may very well cause the {{PAGENAME}} to go dry just when those rounds are needed the most.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|OFAB-250sv (250 kg)|R-3S|S-21}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 2 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (500 kg total)
* 2 x S-21 unguided rockets
* 2 x R-3S air-to-air missiles

Though built as a fighter-interceptor the {{PAGENAME}} has the suspended ordnance option to actually take on a multi-role function. The {{PAGENAME}} can function also as a fighter-bomber, fighter-attacker as well as a fighter-interceptor. To fulfil the bomber role, the MiG can be outfitted with two 250 kg bombs, though not enough to put a dent in an enemy base, these bombs are a great option for strategic bombing of vehicles or anti-aircraft artillery which may be a bit more spread out. These one-off or mobile targets are difficult for the higher up bombers to hit, but a fast and nimble strategic fighter-bomber can get in low and deliver the ordnance on to the target more efficiently.

As for the fighter-attacker role, the S-21 unguided rockets come into play. These unguided rockets are best used against ground-based tanks or high altitude bombers. Since the rockets are unguided, they work best against slow-moving targets and firing at a relatively short-range to endure positive contact either crippling the enemy vehicle or destroying it. The S-21 is a fire-and-forget rocket in that once it takes off, there is nothing more to do than let it reach its destination. At this point, the fighter can take evasive action or set up for another run if there are any rockets available to shoot.

For fast-paced air-to-air combat, the {{PAGENAME}} can be outfitted with two R-3S missiles (reversed engineered AIM-9 Sidewinder also known as the Vympel K-13 or NATO AA-2 "Atoll"). This missile works best when flying behind the target aircraft to allow the system enough time to gain a lock. Once the lock is achieved, the missile can be fired. It is best to fire between 1 and 1.5 km from the target to allow for the least amount of reaction time and potential for evasive action on the enemy aircraft's part. Firing a missile from a greater distance is possible, however, the more that the enemy fighter can react to the missile launch, the better the odds are that they will be successful in evading the missile. If the missile is evaded, all is not lost, many times the enemy fighter had to perform several energy bleeding manoeuvres to evade the missile which may ultimately set them up for the {{PAGENAME}} pilot to close in and eliminate the target with their 37 mm and 23 mm autocannons.

== Usage in battles ==


==== Against enemy aircraft ====
The MiG-17AS has much better high-altitude flight characteristics most planes at its rank, so it is best played in higher-altitude dogfights. Nearer to sea level, the competition will have better engine performance.

This vehicle performs much better in vertical manoeuvres than many other aircraft, and such manoeuvres may be employed to cause an enemy aircraft to stall, giving the player an easy kill. But make sure that there are no other enemies nearby before attempting a low-speed stall manoeuvre.

The engine also gives this vehicle very good energy retention and a high climb rate. However, the plane begins to compress at high speeds, and aiming may become difficult. Watch out for this during diving attacks.

So, this plane is well-suited for medium-speed dogfights, where it can utilise its energy retention and good turn rate against enemy aircraft. In addition, luring enemies to slow speeds will allow the MiG-17AS's air-to-air missiles to better track and destroy them. (In practically all other cases, the poor-tracking missiles will struggle to keep up with a fast-moving, turning enemy.)

As for cannon armament, the MiG-17AS has three high-calibre cannons. This may sound perfect at first glance, but the armament setup on this plane does create difficulties on further consideration. First of all, these cannons are all slow-firing, and it is not uncommon that a fast-moving enemy will slip between cannon shells and avoid destruction. Also, the shells have a fairly low muzzle velocity compared to that of other jets at this rank, and have quite a noticeable drop. Combined with the slow firing speed, this makes aiming difficult at the best of times, and extremely challenging at ranges over 400 m. But as if all of that wasn't enough, the cannons are mounted below the nose of the plane, making aim difficult for players inexperienced in flying with this gun positioning. Furthermore, all three cannons have quite low ammo counts, so trigger discipline is key. All in all, this vehicle's guns are certainly not its strong point, but keep in mind that the aircraft's admirable flight characteristics can more than make up for this weakness: when the enemy is stalled out in front of this aircraft, its guns are more than enough to guarantee the kill.

==== Against ground targets ====
The MiG-17AS has the option to mount 2 x 250 kg bombs. However, these bombs considerably harm the vehicle's flight performance, and have quite low destructive power. Using them against armoured ground targets is often difficult.

In most cases, a better option is to use the 2 x S-21 air-to-ground rockets available to this aircraft. These each contain a very good 9.95 kg of TNT, and may be fired separately. They also have quite respectable penetration, and will be able to penetrate the roof armour of many of the tanks that this vehicle might face in ground RB. They also have a decent velocity, and are easier to aim than bombs.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Very hard-hitting cannons
* Good manoeuvrability at low to moderate speeds
* Mounts two air-to-air missiles
* Better high-speed manoeuvrability than the MiG-15
* Doesn't rip its wings easily
* Good top speed, especially in a dive

'''Cons:'''

* Slow roll rate at high speeds
* Missiles are short-range
* Poor visibility in simulator: T-tail, gunsight and thick canopy frames create blind spots towards front and rear
* Armament difficult to use (low velocities, low ammo and two different trajectories)
* Guns tend to spark a lot (the N-37 in particular), especially with stock belts
* Tail hangs very close to the ground. Along with the pelvic fin, this can make takeoff trickier if the pilot is careless.
* Engine will begin to overheat when flying above 96% throttle, same as the MiG-17 in the techtree

== History ==


The Korean War showed that the MiG-15 and [[MiG-15bis|MiG-15 bis]] fighters were able to battle any aerial opponent at least on equal terms. The MiG-17 was a further development of the MiG-15 design that had proven itself so well. It was decided to increase the aircraft's speed by increasing the sweep of the wing and the fuselage being lengthened to maintain the centre of gravity. The [[MiG-15|MiG-15]] and MiG-17 show almost no differences at first glance. The prototype of the MiG-17 was even called the MiG-15bis45. However, only the frontal parts of the fuselage are the same, from the air intake to the wing, if you don't count the landing headlight that had been moved to the left-wing and some minor details.

These aircraft are different in every other way. It is easy to see the main differences when you look from above. By comparing the side profiles, you can see that in addition to the difference in fuselage length there are differences in the tail fin and an additional ventral fin which allows you to immediately tell the MiG-17 apart from the MiG-15. The upper part of the fins and the rudders of the aircraft are different, the juncture between the fin and the stabilizer fin also differs, but this can only be seen close up. The wing sweep of the stabilizer fin was also increased and there were also changes to elevators. The air brakes also differ in shape and size. The depth of the housing was decreased, so a cigar-shaped cowl was created to hide the cylinder. There were very significant changes to the wing. Apart from an increased wing sweep, a leading-edge break appeared and the tips became rounder, which helps differentiate the aircraft when looking at them from above or below. While the Mig-15 had two aerodynamic ridges on the top surface of its wings, the MiG-17 had three.

The change in the shape of the wing led to appropriate changes in the construction of the flaps. The new geometry of the main landing gear legs required for the cover to be altered. The structure of the canopy also saw some changes. However, the first versions of the MiG-17 had the same canopies as the [[MiG-15bis|MiG-15 bis]]. Apart from changes to the design of the canopy framing (which is not actually that noticeable from afar), a rear-view mirror was introduced that would allow the aircraft to be recognized from further away. There were no significant changes to the cockpit. Overall, the MiG-17 looks even more aesthetically pleasing and streamlined than its predecessor.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=mig-17_cuba Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|SA65YXTKyBU|'''Should You Buy The MiG 17 AS''' - ''Sako Sniper''|hPPDvFNbbR0|'''Mig-17AS - So Good, Even I got An Ace In It''' - ''Napalmratte''|fCSKtDYDAYk|'''War Thunder Sim - MiG-17AS - Missile Armed MiG17''' - ''Spicysauced'' (Part starts at 6:16)}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-15]]
* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-17 (Family)|MiG-17]]
* [[Shenyang F-5]]

;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era

* Dassault [[Super Mystere B2|Super Mystere]]
* Hawker [[Hunter (Family)|Hunter]]
* North American [[F-86 (Family)|F-86]] Sabre

== External links ==


* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/285040-mikoyan-gurevich-mig-17/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]
* [[wikipedia:Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-17|[Wikipedia] Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17]]
* [https://www.historynet.com/mig-17-produced-north-vietnams-first-jet-to-air-victories.htm <nowiki>[History Net]</nowiki> MiG-17 produced north Vietnam's first jet to air victories]
* [http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/EqMiG17-e.html <nowiki>[Ruben Urribarres]</nowiki> The MiG-17 Fresco in Cuba]

{{AirManufacturer MiG}}
{{USSR jet aircraft}}
{{USSR premium aircraft}}

MiG-17AS

2023-03-23T01:30:01Z

U77257111: Spacing error.

{{About
| about = gift Soviet jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = MiG-17 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=mig-17_cuba
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]]. It was removed from the Gaijin store after the [[wt:en/news/7674-shop-may-sale-en|2022 May sale]] and is currently unobtainable in-game.

As a {{PAGENAME}} flying in Cuban colors, the plane represents a fighter-bomber version of the [[MiG-17]] series that was exported to Cuba in 1964.

== General info ==
[[File:MiG-17 Cockpit (2022).png|thumb|The '''MiG-17AS'''' instrument panel.]]

=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


The MiG-17AS is powered by the Klimov VK-1 jet engine, the same as the engine found on the [[MiG-17]]. This engine performs well at higher altitudes, and affords this vehicle much better high-altitude flight characteristics than its American counterpart, the [[F-86 (Family)|F-86]]. This also means that the MiG-17 performs much better in vertical manoeuvres than many other aircraft. The engine also gives this vehicle very good energy retention and a high climb rate. At high speeds (>900 km/h), the aircraft experiences compression and loses roll and pitch authority.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 2,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 1,097 || 1,061 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 22.2 || 23.2 || 41.2 || 39.1 || rowspan="2" | 475
|-
! Upgraded
| 1,128 || 1,114 || 21.2 || 21.5 || 59.9 || 50.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || X 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,093  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 598 || 450 || ~12 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 600 || < 700 || < 750 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Klimov VK-1 || 1
| colspan="2" | 3,958 kg || colspan="2" | 227 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel
|-
| 892 kg || colspan="2" | Centrifugal-flow turbojet
| 4,310 kg || 4,755 kg || 5,130 kg || 5,485 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (100%)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 2,450 kgf || N/A
| 0.57 || 0.52 || 0.48 || 0.45
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 2,450 kgf (0 km/h) || N/A
| 0.57 || 0.52 || 0.48 || 0.45
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

[[File:MiG-17AS Armour Scheme.png|right|thumb|The armour plates on the {{PAGENAME}}.]]
The {{PAGENAME}} armour around the pilot is a bit more substantial than that seen on F-86 Sabres. With a large 10 mm steel plate in the nose, this armour protects both the pilot and the fuel tank from any glancing frontal shots from going through and causing damage. A 60 mm bullet proof glass is also present in front of the pilot, which may also offer some ballistic protection against machine gun rounds. However, the glass and steel armour are not substantial enough to take a head-on attack from a similar aircraft, so don't use these as a safety net from head-on attacks. 16 mm steel plates cover the pilot's seat, which will protect the pilot against any glancing shots approaching from the rear, but it does not protect the fuel tank.

The {{PAGENAME}} structure overall is minimal, with the a lot of empty spaces in the fuselage and tail, but the control surfaces all over are still vulnerable to being cut and driving the {{PAGENAME}} out of control. Although there are two self-sealing fuel tanks on the {{PAGENAME}}, the largest one is seated right behind the pilot and so can be prone to being hit. This means an enemy that misses an attempt at a pilot snipe can still have a chance of hitting the fuel tank and igniting it, causing crippling damages to the overall {{PAGENAME}} structure.

Like the MiG-15 before it, if the tail vertical stabilizer gets knocked off the plane, so are the elevators, leaving the aircraft helpless if not already determined a victory by the score system to the offending enemy.

It is important to note that the MiG-17 does not take damage well. Damage to the fuselage, even if minimal, will significantly hamper performance in the speed and energy retention department. Any damage to the wings will cause the aircraft to roll to one side, impairing its ability to properly dogfight its opponents. Damage to the engine is also quite fatal. Though still flyable after light damage, it is reccomended to return to base if damaged, as the aircraft loses its ability to dogfight completely.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|N-37D (37 mm)|NR-23 (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 1 x 37 mm N-37D cannon, chin-mounted (40 rpg)
* 2 x 23 mm NR-23 cannons, chin-mounted (80 rpg = 160 total)

The Nudelman N-37D was a 37 mm autocannon which replaced the Nudelman-Suranov NS-37 autocannons. The N-37D was 30% lighter than the NS-37, but to lighten the load, a sacrifice was made causing a 23% drop in muzzle velocity in comparison. Even with the loss of muzzle velocity, this autocannon can still fire at 400 rounds per minute which equates to just over six per second, emptying the belt in just over 7 seconds if the firing button is continuously held and the gun does not jam. The continuous fire of this weapon should not be attempted as only one or two rounds is enough to take down the largest of aircraft, though a dodging fighter may take a few more rounds before one connects.

The Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 was a 23 mm autocannon which was widely used on many Soviet aircraft. The NR-23 has a faster muzzle velocity over the N-37D by 200 m/s, firing them at the same time will not result in them landing in the same place as the N-37D will begin to drop sooner. Firing at around 900 rounds per minute, the NR-23 can unload a good amount of ammunition downrange, however, with a limited supply of only 80 rounds per gun, it is best to fire in small bursts when the pilot has a good gun solution. Firing in "hopes" to hit the target will result in many missed and wasted shots and may very well cause the {{PAGENAME}} to go dry just when those rounds are needed the most.

Though the combination of the aformentioned cannons can pack quite a punch, the low accuracy, low muzzle velocity, low ammo count, and odd placement makes them quite difficult to aim. It is reccomended to set the weapon convergence to 400m since the guns will not reliably reach any farther than that. Some may also find it helpful to toggle on vertical convergence, due to the high drop these autocannons have. Currently, the reccomended ammo belts are armored targets for both of the cannons, since the high explosive shells lack damage.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|OFAB-250sv (250 kg)|R-3S|S-21}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 2 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (500 kg total)
* 2 x S-21 unguided rockets
* 2 x R-3S air-to-air missiles

Though built as a fighter-interceptor the {{PAGENAME}} has the suspended ordnance option to actually take on a multi-role function. The {{PAGENAME}} can function also as a fighter-bomber, fighter-attacker as well as a fighter-interceptor. To fulfil the bomber role, the MiG can be outfitted with two 250 kg bombs, though not enough to put a dent in an enemy base, these bombs are a great option for strategic bombing of vehicles or anti-aircraft artillery which may be a bit more spread out. These one-off or mobile targets are difficult for the higher up bombers to hit, but a fast and nimble strategic fighter-bomber can get in low and deliver the ordnance on to the target more efficiently.

As for the fighter-attacker role, the S-21 unguided rockets come into play. These unguided rockets are best used against ground-based tanks or high altitude bombers. Since the rockets are unguided, they work best against slow-moving targets and firing at a relatively short-range to endure positive contact either crippling the enemy vehicle or destroying it. The S-21 is a fire-and-forget rocket in that once it takes off, there is nothing more to do than let it reach its destination. At this point, the fighter can take evasive action or set up for another run if there are any rockets available to shoot.

For fast-paced air-to-air combat, the {{PAGENAME}} can be outfitted with two R-3S missiles (reversed engineered AIM-9 Sidewinder also known as the Vympel K-13 or NATO AA-2 "Atoll"). This missile works best when flying behind the target aircraft to allow the system enough time to gain a lock. Once the lock is achieved, the missile can be fired. It is best to fire between 1 and 1.5 km from the target to allow for the least amount of reaction time and potential for evasive action on the enemy aircraft's part. Firing a missile from a greater distance is possible, however, the more that the enemy fighter can react to the missile launch, the better the odds are that they will be successful in evading the missile. If the missile is evaded, all is not lost, many times the enemy fighter had to perform several energy bleeding manoeuvres to evade the missile which may ultimately set them up for the {{PAGENAME}} pilot to close in and eliminate the target with their 37 mm and 23 mm autocannons.

== Usage in battles ==


==== Against enemy aircraft ====
The MiG-17AS has much better high-altitude flight characteristics most planes at its rank, so it is best played in higher-altitude dogfights. Nearer to sea level, the competition will have better engine performance.

This vehicle performs much better in vertical manoeuvres than many other aircraft, and such manoeuvres may be employed to cause an enemy aircraft to stall, giving the player an easy kill. But make sure that there are no other enemies nearby before attempting a low-speed stall manoeuvre.

The engine also gives this vehicle very good energy retention and a high climb rate. However, the plane begins to compress at high speeds, and aiming may become difficult. To avoid compression of the control surfaces, it is advisable to put the aircraft in a slight climb (~10°) when at higher speeds (>700 kph ias) in order to build up an energy advantage while remaining manouverable.

So, this plane is well-suited for medium-speed dogfights, where it can utilise its energy retention and good turn rate against enemy aircraft. In addition, luring enemies to slow speeds will allow the MiG-17AS's air-to-air missiles to better track and destroy them. (In practically all other cases, the poor-tracking missiles will struggle to keep up with a fast-moving, turning enemy.)

As for cannon armament, the MiG-17AS has three high-calibre cannons. This may sound perfect at first glance, but the armament setup on this plane does create difficulties on further consideration. First of all, these cannons are all slow-firing, and it is not uncommon that a fast-moving enemy will slip between cannon shells and avoid destruction. Also, the shells have a fairly low muzzle velocity compared to that of other jets at this rank, and have quite a noticeable drop. Combined with the slow firing speed, this makes aiming difficult at the best of times, and extremely challenging at ranges over 400 m. But as if all of that wasn't enough, the cannons are mounted below the nose of the plane, making aim difficult for players inexperienced in flying with this gun positioning. Furthermore, all three cannons have quite low ammo counts, so trigger discipline is key. All in all, this vehicle's guns are certainly not its strong point, but keep in mind that the aircraft's admirable flight characteristics can more than make up for this weakness: when the enemy is stalled out in front of this aircraft, its guns are more than enough to guarantee the kill.

==== Against ground targets ====
The MiG-17AS has the option to mount 2 x 250 kg bombs. However, these bombs considerably harm the vehicle's flight performance, and have quite low destructive power. Using them against armoured ground targets is often difficult.

In most cases, a better option is to use the 2 x S-21 air-to-ground rockets available to this aircraft. These each contain a very good 9.95 kg of TNT, and may be fired separately. They also have quite respectable penetration, and will be able to penetrate the roof armour of many of the tanks that this vehicle might face in ground RB. They also have a decent velocity, and are easier to aim than bombs.

Despite having some ground attack capabilities, the MiG-17 is by no means a viable CAS aircraft, and ground attack should be avoided altogether in this aircraft.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Very hard-hitting cannons
* Good manoeuvrability at low to moderate speeds
* Mounts two air-to-air missiles
* Better high-speed manoeuvrability than the MiG-15
* Doesn't rip its wings easily
* Good top speed, especially in a dive
* Flaps are very effective in low speed fights

'''Cons:'''

* Slow roll rate at high speeds
* Missiles are short-range
* Poor visibility in simulator: T-tail, gunsight and thick canopy frames create blind spots towards front and rear
* Armament difficult to use (low velocities, low ammo and two different trajectories)
* Guns tend to spark a lot (the N-37 in particular), especially with stock belts
* Tail hangs very close to the ground. Along with the pelvic fin, this can make takeoff trickier if the pilot is careless.

== History ==


The Korean War showed that the MiG-15 and [[MiG-15bis|MiG-15 bis]] fighters were able to battle any aerial opponent at least on equal terms. The MiG-17 was a further development of the MiG-15 design that had proven itself so well. It was decided to increase the aircraft's speed by increasing the sweep of the wing and the fuselage being lengthened to maintain the centre of gravity. The [[MiG-15|MiG-15]] and MiG-17 show almost no differences at first glance. The prototype of the MiG-17 was even called the MiG-15bis45. However, only the frontal parts of the fuselage are the same, from the air intake to the wing, if you don't count the landing headlight that had been moved to the left-wing and some minor details.

These aircraft are different in every other way. It is easy to see the main differences when you look from above. By comparing the side profiles, you can see that in addition to the difference in fuselage length there are differences in the tail fin and an additional ventral fin which allows you to immediately tell the MiG-17 apart from the MiG-15. The upper part of the fins and the rudders of the aircraft are different, the juncture between the fin and the stabilizer fin also differs, but this can only be seen close up. The wing sweep of the stabilizer fin was also increased and there were also changes to elevators. The air brakes also differ in shape and size. The depth of the housing was decreased, so a cigar-shaped cowl was created to hide the cylinder. There were very significant changes to the wing. Apart from an increased wing sweep, a leading-edge break appeared and the tips became rounder, which helps differentiate the aircraft when looking at them from above or below. While the Mig-15 had two aerodynamic ridges on the top surface of its wings, the MiG-17 had three.

The change in the shape of the wing led to appropriate changes in the construction of the flaps. The new geometry of the main landing gear legs required for the cover to be altered. The structure of the canopy also saw some changes. However, the first versions of the MiG-17 had the same canopies as the [[MiG-15bis|MiG-15 bis]]. Apart from changes to the design of the canopy framing (which is not actually that noticeable from afar), a rear-view mirror was introduced that would allow the aircraft to be recognized from further away. There were no significant changes to the cockpit. Overall, the MiG-17 looks even more aesthetically pleasing and streamlined than its predecessor.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=mig-17_cuba Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
* [https://trade.gaijin.net/?n=ugcitem_1001121&viewitem=&a=1067 "MiG-17AS Kinel-Cherkassk Aviation Training Center" skin in the Gaijin Market]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|SA65YXTKyBU|'''Should You Buy The MiG 17 AS''' - ''Sako Sniper''|hPPDvFNbbR0|'''Mig-17AS - So Good, Even I got An Ace In It''' - ''Napalmratte''|fCSKtDYDAYk|'''War Thunder Sim - MiG-17AS - Missile Armed MiG17''' - ''Spicysauced'' (Part starts at 6:16)}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-15]]
* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-17 (Family)|MiG-17]]
* [[Shenyang F-5]]

;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era

* Dassault [[Super Mystere B2|Super Mystere]]
* Hawker [[Hunter (Family)|Hunter]]
* North American [[F-86 (Family)|F-86]] Sabre

== External links ==


* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/285040-mikoyan-gurevich-mig-17/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]
* [[wikipedia:Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-17|[Wikipedia] Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17]]
* [https://www.historynet.com/mig-17-produced-north-vietnams-first-jet-to-air-victories.htm <nowiki>[History Net]</nowiki> MiG-17 produced north Vietnam's first jet to air victories]
* [http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/EqMiG17-e.html <nowiki>[Ruben Urribarres]</nowiki> The MiG-17 Fresco in Cuba]

{{AirManufacturer MiG}}
{{USSR jet aircraft}}
{{USSR premium aircraft}}

MiG-17AS

2023-03-23T01:29:02Z

U77257111: Link to the gaijin market skin available for purchase.

{{About
| about = gift Soviet jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = MiG-17 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=mig-17_cuba
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]]. It was removed from the Gaijin store after the [[wt:en/news/7674-shop-may-sale-en|2022 May sale]] and is currently unobtainable in-game.

As a {{PAGENAME}} flying in Cuban colors, the plane represents a fighter-bomber version of the [[MiG-17]] series that was exported to Cuba in 1964.

== General info ==
[[File:MiG-17 Cockpit (2022).png|thumb|The '''MiG-17AS'''' instrument panel.]]

=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


The MiG-17AS is powered by the Klimov VK-1 jet engine, the same as the engine found on the [[MiG-17]]. This engine performs well at higher altitudes, and affords this vehicle much better high-altitude flight characteristics than its American counterpart, the [[F-86 (Family)|F-86]]. This also means that the MiG-17 performs much better in vertical manoeuvres than many other aircraft. The engine also gives this vehicle very good energy retention and a high climb rate. At high speeds (>900 km/h), the aircraft experiences compression and loses roll and pitch authority.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 2,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 1,097 || 1,061 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 22.2 || 23.2 || 41.2 || 39.1 || rowspan="2" | 475
|-
! Upgraded
| 1,128 || 1,114 || 21.2 || 21.5 || 59.9 || 50.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || X 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,093  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 598 || 450 || ~12 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 600 || < 700 || < 750 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Klimov VK-1 || 1
| colspan="2" | 3,958 kg || colspan="2" | 227 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel
|-
| 892 kg || colspan="2" | Centrifugal-flow turbojet
| 4,310 kg || 4,755 kg || 5,130 kg || 5,485 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (100%)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 2,450 kgf || N/A
| 0.57 || 0.52 || 0.48 || 0.45
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 2,450 kgf (0 km/h) || N/A
| 0.57 || 0.52 || 0.48 || 0.45
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

[[File:MiG-17AS Armour Scheme.png|right|thumb|The armour plates on the {{PAGENAME}}.]]
The {{PAGENAME}} armour around the pilot is a bit more substantial than that seen on F-86 Sabres. With a large 10 mm steel plate in the nose, this armour protects both the pilot and the fuel tank from any glancing frontal shots from going through and causing damage. A 60 mm bullet proof glass is also present in front of the pilot, which may also offer some ballistic protection against machine gun rounds. However, the glass and steel armour are not substantial enough to take a head-on attack from a similar aircraft, so don't use these as a safety net from head-on attacks. 16 mm steel plates cover the pilot's seat, which will protect the pilot against any glancing shots approaching from the rear, but it does not protect the fuel tank.

The {{PAGENAME}} structure overall is minimal, with the a lot of empty spaces in the fuselage and tail, but the control surfaces all over are still vulnerable to being cut and driving the {{PAGENAME}} out of control. Although there are two self-sealing fuel tanks on the {{PAGENAME}}, the largest one is seated right behind the pilot and so can be prone to being hit. This means an enemy that misses an attempt at a pilot snipe can still have a chance of hitting the fuel tank and igniting it, causing crippling damages to the overall {{PAGENAME}} structure.

Like the MiG-15 before it, if the tail vertical stabilizer gets knocked off the plane, so are the elevators, leaving the aircraft helpless if not already determined a victory by the score system to the offending enemy.

It is important to note that the MiG-17 does not take damage well. Damage to the fuselage, even if minimal, will significantly hamper performance in the speed and energy retention department. Any damage to the wings will cause the aircraft to roll to one side, impairing its ability to properly dogfight its opponents. Damage to the engine is also quite fatal. Though still flyable after light damage, it is reccomended to return to base if damaged, as the aircraft loses its ability to dogfight completely.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|N-37D (37 mm)|NR-23 (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 1 x 37 mm N-37D cannon, chin-mounted (40 rpg)
* 2 x 23 mm NR-23 cannons, chin-mounted (80 rpg = 160 total)

The Nudelman N-37D was a 37 mm autocannon which replaced the Nudelman-Suranov NS-37 autocannons. The N-37D was 30% lighter than the NS-37, but to lighten the load, a sacrifice was made causing a 23% drop in muzzle velocity in comparison. Even with the loss of muzzle velocity, this autocannon can still fire at 400 rounds per minute which equates to just over six per second, emptying the belt in just over 7 seconds if the firing button is continuously held and the gun does not jam. The continuous fire of this weapon should not be attempted as only one or two rounds is enough to take down the largest of aircraft, though a dodging fighter may take a few more rounds before one connects.

The Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 was a 23 mm autocannon which was widely used on many Soviet aircraft. The NR-23 has a faster muzzle velocity over the N-37D by 200 m/s, firing them at the same time will not result in them landing in the same place as the N-37D will begin to drop sooner. Firing at around 900 rounds per minute, the NR-23 can unload a good amount of ammunition downrange, however, with a limited supply of only 80 rounds per gun, it is best to fire in small bursts when the pilot has a good gun solution. Firing in "hopes" to hit the target will result in many missed and wasted shots and may very well cause the {{PAGENAME}} to go dry just when those rounds are needed the most.

Though the combination of the aformentioned cannons can pack quite a punch, the low accuracy, low muzzle velocity, low ammo count, and odd placement makes them quite difficult to aim. It is reccomended to set the weapon convergence to 400m since the guns will not reliably reach any farther than that. Some may also find it helpful to toggle on vertical convergence, due to the high drop these autocannons have. Currently, the reccomended ammo belts are armored targets for both of the cannons, since the high explosive shells lack damage.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|OFAB-250sv (250 kg)|R-3S|S-21}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 2 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (500 kg total)
* 2 x S-21 unguided rockets
* 2 x R-3S air-to-air missiles

Though built as a fighter-interceptor the {{PAGENAME}} has the suspended ordnance option to actually take on a multi-role function. The {{PAGENAME}} can function also as a fighter-bomber, fighter-attacker as well as a fighter-interceptor. To fulfil the bomber role, the MiG can be outfitted with two 250 kg bombs, though not enough to put a dent in an enemy base, these bombs are a great option for strategic bombing of vehicles or anti-aircraft artillery which may be a bit more spread out. These one-off or mobile targets are difficult for the higher up bombers to hit, but a fast and nimble strategic fighter-bomber can get in low and deliver the ordnance on to the target more efficiently.

As for the fighter-attacker role, the S-21 unguided rockets come into play. These unguided rockets are best used against ground-based tanks or high altitude bombers. Since the rockets are unguided, they work best against slow-moving targets and firing at a relatively short-range to endure positive contact either crippling the enemy vehicle or destroying it. The S-21 is a fire-and-forget rocket in that once it takes off, there is nothing more to do than let it reach its destination. At this point, the fighter can take evasive action or set up for another run if there are any rockets available to shoot.

For fast-paced air-to-air combat, the {{PAGENAME}} can be outfitted with two R-3S missiles (reversed engineered AIM-9 Sidewinder also known as the Vympel K-13 or NATO AA-2 "Atoll"). This missile works best when flying behind the target aircraft to allow the system enough time to gain a lock. Once the lock is achieved, the missile can be fired. It is best to fire between 1 and 1.5 km from the target to allow for the least amount of reaction time and potential for evasive action on the enemy aircraft's part. Firing a missile from a greater distance is possible, however, the more that the enemy fighter can react to the missile launch, the better the odds are that they will be successful in evading the missile. If the missile is evaded, all is not lost, many times the enemy fighter had to perform several energy bleeding manoeuvres to evade the missile which may ultimately set them up for the {{PAGENAME}} pilot to close in and eliminate the target with their 37 mm and 23 mm autocannons.

== Usage in battles ==


==== Against enemy aircraft ====
The MiG-17AS has much better high-altitude flight characteristics most planes at its rank, so it is best played in higher-altitude dogfights. Nearer to sea level, the competition will have better engine performance.

This vehicle performs much better in vertical manoeuvres than many other aircraft, and such manoeuvres may be employed to cause an enemy aircraft to stall, giving the player an easy kill. But make sure that there are no other enemies nearby before attempting a low-speed stall manoeuvre.

The engine also gives this vehicle very good energy retention and a high climb rate. However, the plane begins to compress at high speeds, and aiming may become difficult. To avoid compression of the control surfaces, it is advisable to put the aircraft in a slight climb (~10°) when at higher speeds (>700 kph ias) in order to build up an energy advantage while remaining manouverable.

So, this plane is well-suited for medium-speed dogfights, where it can utilise its energy retention and good turn rate against enemy aircraft. In addition, luring enemies to slow speeds will allow the MiG-17AS's air-to-air missiles to better track and destroy them. (In practically all other cases, the poor-tracking missiles will struggle to keep up with a fast-moving, turning enemy.)

As for cannon armament, the MiG-17AS has three high-calibre cannons. This may sound perfect at first glance, but the armament setup on this plane does create difficulties on further consideration. First of all, these cannons are all slow-firing, and it is not uncommon that a fast-moving enemy will slip between cannon shells and avoid destruction. Also, the shells have a fairly low muzzle velocity compared to that of other jets at this rank, and have quite a noticeable drop. Combined with the slow firing speed, this makes aiming difficult at the best of times, and extremely challenging at ranges over 400 m. But as if all of that wasn't enough, the cannons are mounted below the nose of the plane, making aim difficult for players inexperienced in flying with this gun positioning. Furthermore, all three cannons have quite low ammo counts, so trigger discipline is key. All in all, this vehicle's guns are certainly not its strong point, but keep in mind that the aircraft's admirable flight characteristics can more than make up for this weakness: when the enemy is stalled out in front of this aircraft, its guns are more than enough to guarantee the kill.

==== Against ground targets ====
The MiG-17AS has the option to mount 2 x 250 kg bombs. However, these bombs considerably harm the vehicle's flight performance, and have quite low destructive power. Using them against armoured ground targets is often difficult.

In most cases, a better option is to use the 2 x S-21 air-to-ground rockets available to this aircraft. These each contain a very good 9.95 kg of TNT, and may be fired separately. They also have quite respectable penetration, and will be able to penetrate the roof armour of many of the tanks that this vehicle might face in ground RB. They also have a decent velocity, and are easier to aim than bombs.

Despite having some ground attack capabilities, the MiG-17 is by no means a viable CAS aircraft, and ground attack should be avoided altogether in this aircraft.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Very hard-hitting cannons
* Good manoeuvrability at low to moderate speeds
* Mounts two air-to-air missiles
* Better high-speed manoeuvrability than the MiG-15
* Doesn't rip its wings easily
* Good top speed, especially in a dive
* Flaps are very effective in low speed fights

'''Cons:'''

* Slow roll rate at high speeds
* Missiles are short-range
* Poor visibility in simulator: T-tail, gunsight and thick canopy frames create blind spots towards front and rear
* Armament difficult to use (low velocities, low ammo and two different trajectories)
* Guns tend to spark a lot (the N-37 in particular), especially with stock belts
* Tail hangs very close to the ground. Along with the pelvic fin, this can make takeoff trickier if the pilot is careless.

== History ==


The Korean War showed that the MiG-15 and [[MiG-15bis|MiG-15 bis]] fighters were able to battle any aerial opponent at least on equal terms. The MiG-17 was a further development of the MiG-15 design that had proven itself so well. It was decided to increase the aircraft's speed by increasing the sweep of the wing and the fuselage being lengthened to maintain the centre of gravity. The [[MiG-15|MiG-15]] and MiG-17 show almost no differences at first glance. The prototype of the MiG-17 was even called the MiG-15bis45. However, only the frontal parts of the fuselage are the same, from the air intake to the wing, if you don't count the landing headlight that had been moved to the left-wing and some minor details.

These aircraft are different in every other way. It is easy to see the main differences when you look from above. By comparing the side profiles, you can see that in addition to the difference in fuselage length there are differences in the tail fin and an additional ventral fin which allows you to immediately tell the MiG-17 apart from the MiG-15. The upper part of the fins and the rudders of the aircraft are different, the juncture between the fin and the stabilizer fin also differs, but this can only be seen close up. The wing sweep of the stabilizer fin was also increased and there were also changes to elevators. The air brakes also differ in shape and size. The depth of the housing was decreased, so a cigar-shaped cowl was created to hide the cylinder. There were very significant changes to the wing. Apart from an increased wing sweep, a leading-edge break appeared and the tips became rounder, which helps differentiate the aircraft when looking at them from above or below. While the Mig-15 had two aerodynamic ridges on the top surface of its wings, the MiG-17 had three.

The change in the shape of the wing led to appropriate changes in the construction of the flaps. The new geometry of the main landing gear legs required for the cover to be altered. The structure of the canopy also saw some changes. However, the first versions of the MiG-17 had the same canopies as the [[MiG-15bis|MiG-15 bis]]. Apart from changes to the design of the canopy framing (which is not actually that noticeable from afar), a rear-view mirror was introduced that would allow the aircraft to be recognized from further away. There were no significant changes to the cockpit. Overall, the MiG-17 looks even more aesthetically pleasing and streamlined than its predecessor.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=mig-17_cuba Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
* [https://trade.gaijin.net/?n=ugcitem_1001121&viewitem=&a=1067 " MiG-17AS Kinel-Cherkassk Aviation Training Center" skin in the Gaijin Market]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|SA65YXTKyBU|'''Should You Buy The MiG 17 AS''' - ''Sako Sniper''|hPPDvFNbbR0|'''Mig-17AS - So Good, Even I got An Ace In It''' - ''Napalmratte''|fCSKtDYDAYk|'''War Thunder Sim - MiG-17AS - Missile Armed MiG17''' - ''Spicysauced'' (Part starts at 6:16)}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-15]]
* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-17 (Family)|MiG-17]]
* [[Shenyang F-5]]

;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era

* Dassault [[Super Mystere B2|Super Mystere]]
* Hawker [[Hunter (Family)|Hunter]]
* North American [[F-86 (Family)|F-86]] Sabre

== External links ==


* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/285040-mikoyan-gurevich-mig-17/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]
* [[wikipedia:Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-17|[Wikipedia] Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17]]
* [https://www.historynet.com/mig-17-produced-north-vietnams-first-jet-to-air-victories.htm <nowiki>[History Net]</nowiki> MiG-17 produced north Vietnam's first jet to air victories]
* [http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/EqMiG17-e.html <nowiki>[Ruben Urribarres]</nowiki> The MiG-17 Fresco in Cuba]

{{AirManufacturer MiG}}
{{USSR jet aircraft}}
{{USSR premium aircraft}}

MiG-17AS

2023-03-23T01:25:52Z

U77257111: Additional information added to these sections: Survivability and armor, Pros and Cons, Usage in Battles, Offensive Armament

{{About
| about = gift Soviet jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = MiG-17 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=mig-17_cuba
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]]. It was removed from the Gaijin store after the [[wt:en/news/7674-shop-may-sale-en|2022 May sale]] and is currently unobtainable in-game.

As a {{PAGENAME}} flying in Cuban colors, the plane represents a fighter-bomber version of the [[MiG-17]] series that was exported to Cuba in 1964.

== General info ==
[[File:MiG-17 Cockpit (2022).png|thumb|The '''MiG-17AS'''' instrument panel.]]

=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


The MiG-17AS is powered by the Klimov VK-1 jet engine, the same as the engine found on the [[MiG-17]]. This engine performs well at higher altitudes, and affords this vehicle much better high-altitude flight characteristics than its American counterpart, the [[F-86 (Family)|F-86]]. This also means that the MiG-17 performs much better in vertical manoeuvres than many other aircraft. The engine also gives this vehicle very good energy retention and a high climb rate. At high speeds (>900 km/h), the aircraft experiences compression and loses roll and pitch authority.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 2,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 1,097 || 1,061 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 22.2 || 23.2 || 41.2 || 39.1 || rowspan="2" | 475
|-
! Upgraded
| 1,128 || 1,114 || 21.2 || 21.5 || 59.9 || 50.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || X 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,093  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 598 || 450 || ~12 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 600 || < 700 || < 750 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Klimov VK-1 || 1
| colspan="2" | 3,958 kg || colspan="2" | 227 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel
|-
| 892 kg || colspan="2" | Centrifugal-flow turbojet
| 4,310 kg || 4,755 kg || 5,130 kg || 5,485 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (100%)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 2,450 kgf || N/A
| 0.57 || 0.52 || 0.48 || 0.45
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 2,450 kgf (0 km/h) || N/A
| 0.57 || 0.52 || 0.48 || 0.45
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

[[File:MiG-17AS Armour Scheme.png|right|thumb|The armour plates on the {{PAGENAME}}.]]
The {{PAGENAME}} armour around the pilot is a bit more substantial than that seen on F-86 Sabres. With a large 10 mm steel plate in the nose, this armour protects both the pilot and the fuel tank from any glancing frontal shots from going through and causing damage. A 60 mm bullet proof glass is also present in front of the pilot, which may also offer some ballistic protection against machine gun rounds. However, the glass and steel armour are not substantial enough to take a head-on attack from a similar aircraft, so don't use these as a safety net from head-on attacks. 16 mm steel plates cover the pilot's seat, which will protect the pilot against any glancing shots approaching from the rear, but it does not protect the fuel tank.

The {{PAGENAME}} structure overall is minimal, with the a lot of empty spaces in the fuselage and tail, but the control surfaces all over are still vulnerable to being cut and driving the {{PAGENAME}} out of control. Although there are two self-sealing fuel tanks on the {{PAGENAME}}, the largest one is seated right behind the pilot and so can be prone to being hit. This means an enemy that misses an attempt at a pilot snipe can still have a chance of hitting the fuel tank and igniting it, causing crippling damages to the overall {{PAGENAME}} structure.

Like the MiG-15 before it, if the tail vertical stabilizer gets knocked off the plane, so are the elevators, leaving the aircraft helpless if not already determined a victory by the score system to the offending enemy.

It is important to note that the MiG-17 does not take damage well. Damage to the fuselage, even if minimal, will significantly hamper performance in the speed and energy retention department. Any damage to the wings will cause the aircraft to roll to one side, impairing its ability to properly dogfight its opponents. Damage to the engine is also quite fatal. Though still flyable after light damage, it is reccomended to return to base if damaged, as the aircraft loses its ability to dogfight completely.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|N-37D (37 mm)|NR-23 (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 1 x 37 mm N-37D cannon, chin-mounted (40 rpg)
* 2 x 23 mm NR-23 cannons, chin-mounted (80 rpg = 160 total)

The Nudelman N-37D was a 37 mm autocannon which replaced the Nudelman-Suranov NS-37 autocannons. The N-37D was 30% lighter than the NS-37, but to lighten the load, a sacrifice was made causing a 23% drop in muzzle velocity in comparison. Even with the loss of muzzle velocity, this autocannon can still fire at 400 rounds per minute which equates to just over six per second, emptying the belt in just over 7 seconds if the firing button is continuously held and the gun does not jam. The continuous fire of this weapon should not be attempted as only one or two rounds is enough to take down the largest of aircraft, though a dodging fighter may take a few more rounds before one connects.

The Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 was a 23 mm autocannon which was widely used on many Soviet aircraft. The NR-23 has a faster muzzle velocity over the N-37D by 200 m/s, firing them at the same time will not result in them landing in the same place as the N-37D will begin to drop sooner. Firing at around 900 rounds per minute, the NR-23 can unload a good amount of ammunition downrange, however, with a limited supply of only 80 rounds per gun, it is best to fire in small bursts when the pilot has a good gun solution. Firing in "hopes" to hit the target will result in many missed and wasted shots and may very well cause the {{PAGENAME}} to go dry just when those rounds are needed the most.

Though the combination of the aformentioned cannons can pack quite a punch, the low accuracy, low muzzle velocity, low ammo count, and odd placement makes them quite difficult to aim. It is reccomended to set the weapon convergence to 400m since the guns will not reliably reach any farther than that. Some may also find it helpful to toggle on vertical convergence, due to the high drop these autocannons have. Currently, the reccomended ammo belts are armored targets for both of the cannons, since the high explosive shells lack damage.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|OFAB-250sv (250 kg)|R-3S|S-21}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 2 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (500 kg total)
* 2 x S-21 unguided rockets
* 2 x R-3S air-to-air missiles

Though built as a fighter-interceptor the {{PAGENAME}} has the suspended ordnance option to actually take on a multi-role function. The {{PAGENAME}} can function also as a fighter-bomber, fighter-attacker as well as a fighter-interceptor. To fulfil the bomber role, the MiG can be outfitted with two 250 kg bombs, though not enough to put a dent in an enemy base, these bombs are a great option for strategic bombing of vehicles or anti-aircraft artillery which may be a bit more spread out. These one-off or mobile targets are difficult for the higher up bombers to hit, but a fast and nimble strategic fighter-bomber can get in low and deliver the ordnance on to the target more efficiently.

As for the fighter-attacker role, the S-21 unguided rockets come into play. These unguided rockets are best used against ground-based tanks or high altitude bombers. Since the rockets are unguided, they work best against slow-moving targets and firing at a relatively short-range to endure positive contact either crippling the enemy vehicle or destroying it. The S-21 is a fire-and-forget rocket in that once it takes off, there is nothing more to do than let it reach its destination. At this point, the fighter can take evasive action or set up for another run if there are any rockets available to shoot.

For fast-paced air-to-air combat, the {{PAGENAME}} can be outfitted with two R-3S missiles (reversed engineered AIM-9 Sidewinder also known as the Vympel K-13 or NATO AA-2 "Atoll"). This missile works best when flying behind the target aircraft to allow the system enough time to gain a lock. Once the lock is achieved, the missile can be fired. It is best to fire between 1 and 1.5 km from the target to allow for the least amount of reaction time and potential for evasive action on the enemy aircraft's part. Firing a missile from a greater distance is possible, however, the more that the enemy fighter can react to the missile launch, the better the odds are that they will be successful in evading the missile. If the missile is evaded, all is not lost, many times the enemy fighter had to perform several energy bleeding manoeuvres to evade the missile which may ultimately set them up for the {{PAGENAME}} pilot to close in and eliminate the target with their 37 mm and 23 mm autocannons.

== Usage in battles ==


==== Against enemy aircraft ====
The MiG-17AS has much better high-altitude flight characteristics most planes at its rank, so it is best played in higher-altitude dogfights. Nearer to sea level, the competition will have better engine performance.

This vehicle performs much better in vertical manoeuvres than many other aircraft, and such manoeuvres may be employed to cause an enemy aircraft to stall, giving the player an easy kill. But make sure that there are no other enemies nearby before attempting a low-speed stall manoeuvre.

The engine also gives this vehicle very good energy retention and a high climb rate. However, the plane begins to compress at high speeds, and aiming may become difficult. To avoid compression of the control surfaces, it is advisable to put the aircraft in a slight climb (~10°) when at higher speeds (>700 kph ias) in order to build up an energy advantage while remaining manouverable.

So, this plane is well-suited for medium-speed dogfights, where it can utilise its energy retention and good turn rate against enemy aircraft. In addition, luring enemies to slow speeds will allow the MiG-17AS's air-to-air missiles to better track and destroy them. (In practically all other cases, the poor-tracking missiles will struggle to keep up with a fast-moving, turning enemy.)

As for cannon armament, the MiG-17AS has three high-calibre cannons. This may sound perfect at first glance, but the armament setup on this plane does create difficulties on further consideration. First of all, these cannons are all slow-firing, and it is not uncommon that a fast-moving enemy will slip between cannon shells and avoid destruction. Also, the shells have a fairly low muzzle velocity compared to that of other jets at this rank, and have quite a noticeable drop. Combined with the slow firing speed, this makes aiming difficult at the best of times, and extremely challenging at ranges over 400 m. But as if all of that wasn't enough, the cannons are mounted below the nose of the plane, making aim difficult for players inexperienced in flying with this gun positioning. Furthermore, all three cannons have quite low ammo counts, so trigger discipline is key. All in all, this vehicle's guns are certainly not its strong point, but keep in mind that the aircraft's admirable flight characteristics can more than make up for this weakness: when the enemy is stalled out in front of this aircraft, its guns are more than enough to guarantee the kill.

==== Against ground targets ====
The MiG-17AS has the option to mount 2 x 250 kg bombs. However, these bombs considerably harm the vehicle's flight performance, and have quite low destructive power. Using them against armoured ground targets is often difficult.

In most cases, a better option is to use the 2 x S-21 air-to-ground rockets available to this aircraft. These each contain a very good 9.95 kg of TNT, and may be fired separately. They also have quite respectable penetration, and will be able to penetrate the roof armour of many of the tanks that this vehicle might face in ground RB. They also have a decent velocity, and are easier to aim than bombs.

Despite having some ground attack capabilities, the MiG-17 is by no means a viable CAS aircraft, and ground attack should be avoided altogether in this aircraft.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Very hard-hitting cannons
* Good manoeuvrability at low to moderate speeds
* Mounts two air-to-air missiles
* Better high-speed manoeuvrability than the MiG-15
* Doesn't rip its wings easily
* Good top speed, especially in a dive
* Flaps are very effective in low speed fights

'''Cons:'''

* Slow roll rate at high speeds
* Missiles are short-range
* Poor visibility in simulator: T-tail, gunsight and thick canopy frames create blind spots towards front and rear
* Armament difficult to use (low velocities, low ammo and two different trajectories)
* Guns tend to spark a lot (the N-37 in particular), especially with stock belts
* Tail hangs very close to the ground. Along with the pelvic fin, this can make takeoff trickier if the pilot is careless.

== History ==


The Korean War showed that the MiG-15 and [[MiG-15bis|MiG-15 bis]] fighters were able to battle any aerial opponent at least on equal terms. The MiG-17 was a further development of the MiG-15 design that had proven itself so well. It was decided to increase the aircraft's speed by increasing the sweep of the wing and the fuselage being lengthened to maintain the centre of gravity. The [[MiG-15|MiG-15]] and MiG-17 show almost no differences at first glance. The prototype of the MiG-17 was even called the MiG-15bis45. However, only the frontal parts of the fuselage are the same, from the air intake to the wing, if you don't count the landing headlight that had been moved to the left-wing and some minor details.

These aircraft are different in every other way. It is easy to see the main differences when you look from above. By comparing the side profiles, you can see that in addition to the difference in fuselage length there are differences in the tail fin and an additional ventral fin which allows you to immediately tell the MiG-17 apart from the MiG-15. The upper part of the fins and the rudders of the aircraft are different, the juncture between the fin and the stabilizer fin also differs, but this can only be seen close up. The wing sweep of the stabilizer fin was also increased and there were also changes to elevators. The air brakes also differ in shape and size. The depth of the housing was decreased, so a cigar-shaped cowl was created to hide the cylinder. There were very significant changes to the wing. Apart from an increased wing sweep, a leading-edge break appeared and the tips became rounder, which helps differentiate the aircraft when looking at them from above or below. While the Mig-15 had two aerodynamic ridges on the top surface of its wings, the MiG-17 had three.

The change in the shape of the wing led to appropriate changes in the construction of the flaps. The new geometry of the main landing gear legs required for the cover to be altered. The structure of the canopy also saw some changes. However, the first versions of the MiG-17 had the same canopies as the [[MiG-15bis|MiG-15 bis]]. Apart from changes to the design of the canopy framing (which is not actually that noticeable from afar), a rear-view mirror was introduced that would allow the aircraft to be recognized from further away. There were no significant changes to the cockpit. Overall, the MiG-17 looks even more aesthetically pleasing and streamlined than its predecessor.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=mig-17_cuba Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|SA65YXTKyBU|'''Should You Buy The MiG 17 AS''' - ''Sako Sniper''|hPPDvFNbbR0|'''Mig-17AS - So Good, Even I got An Ace In It''' - ''Napalmratte''|fCSKtDYDAYk|'''War Thunder Sim - MiG-17AS - Missile Armed MiG17''' - ''Spicysauced'' (Part starts at 6:16)}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-15]]
* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-17 (Family)|MiG-17]]
* [[Shenyang F-5]]

;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era

* Dassault [[Super Mystere B2|Super Mystere]]
* Hawker [[Hunter (Family)|Hunter]]
* North American [[F-86 (Family)|F-86]] Sabre

== External links ==


* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/285040-mikoyan-gurevich-mig-17/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]
* [[wikipedia:Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-17|[Wikipedia] Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17]]
* [https://www.historynet.com/mig-17-produced-north-vietnams-first-jet-to-air-victories.htm <nowiki>[History Net]</nowiki> MiG-17 produced north Vietnam's first jet to air victories]
* [http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/EqMiG17-e.html <nowiki>[Ruben Urribarres]</nowiki> The MiG-17 Fresco in Cuba]

{{AirManufacturer MiG}}
{{USSR jet aircraft}}
{{USSR premium aircraft}}