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F-104S

2024-05-14T10:01:03Z

U42416657: The F-104S' RWR does not pick up any of the soviet radars. Added to cons

{{About
| about = Italian jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = F-104 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=f-104s
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
|cockpit=cockpit_f-104s.jpg
}}

== Description ==

The F-104S would be one of the most capable Starfighter variants ever built. The F-104S would receive Sparrow missiles, the NASARR R-21G/H radar, more hardpoints, and other airframe improvements. It was essentially an evolution in the F-104G. Fiat would take charge of producing the new Starfighter variant with the help of Alfa Romeo and Selenia. The first F-104S would take flight in late 1968, and Fiat would build over 200 F-104S Starfighters by 1979. Around 40 F-104S aircraft were exported to Turkey which continued using them until the mid-1990s. This would also mark the end of the Starfighter's production run as more advanced planes replaced it.

Introduced in [[Update "Starfighters"]], the '''{{Specs|name}}''' is an Italian supersonic interceptor based on the American [[F-104 (Family)|Lockheed F-104 "Starfighter"]] series. The external appearance is much the same besides the additional ventral fins, but as the final variant of the Starfighter family, it boasts the best speed and payload capacity of any F-104. It can be used as a high-speed ground attacker with a sizeable load of assorted bombs and rockets. Alternatively, it can be a deadly interceptor if equipped with air-to-air missiles. Unique among Starfighters is its ability to carry a pair of AIM-7E Sparrow semi-active radar homing missiles, the same variant used by the [[F-4E Phantom II]]. However, players should take note that equipping Sparrow missiles requires the removal of the M61 Vulcan.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


The sleek and missile-like Starfighters are known for having excellent speed, climb rate, and acceleration, and the F-104S is no exception. Its J79-GE-19 engine has the highest thrust of all F-104 variants by a large margin: optimal thrust on afterburner is about 22% greater than the J79-GE-11 used by the [[F-104G]]. The F-104S will have few issues with outrunning or outclimbing its opponents. But this performance comes at the cost of very poor manoeuvrability, which has not been improved on this variant. The tiny wings and long body make for awful low-speed handling and there is only so much that the combat flaps can do to improve the turn rate. Avoid turning engagements when at all possible. That said, its handling at supersonic speeds is not so poor. Hard turns tend to bleed speed due to the low aspect ratio of the wings. The roll rate is good overall, which helps in defensive manoeuvres.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 15,240 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 2,344 || 2,316 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 34.5 || 34.7 || 225.5 || 216.5 || rowspan="2" | 850
|-
! Upgraded
| 2,431 || 2,387 || 33.5 || 34.0 || 297.4 || 260.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 1,527  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 827 || 444 || ~12 || ~4
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 720 || < 950 || < 800 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="5" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="3" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | General Electric J79-GE-19 || 1
| colspan="2" | 6,850 kg || colspan="3" | 565 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="4" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | {{Annotation|Max Gross Weight|Mass of the fully equipped aircraft with heaviest weapons load}}
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 9m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 32m fuel
|-
| 1,740 kg || colspan="2" | Afterburning axial-flow turbojet
| 7,722 kg || 8,645 kg || 9,543 kg || 9,758 kg || 13,110 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="5" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 9m fuel || 20m fuel || 30m fuel || 32m fuel || MGW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 4,992 kgf || 7,688 kgf
| 1.00 || 0.89 || 0.80 || 0.79 || 0.59
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 5,044 kgf (1,200 - 1,400 km/h) || 10,253 kgf (1,200 km/h)
| 1.33 || 1.18 || 1.07 || 1.05 || 0.78
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


The F-104S is not equipped with any armour plating, and is therefore rather vulnerable to enemy fire, especially given the fact that most enemies at this rank sport high-calibre cannons. Taking any critical damage in the F-104S will almost instantly cripple it, to the point where you will have to fly back to base, or be a sitting duck for the enemy team. Taking a critical hit to the fuselage will disable you so badly you won't be able to reach supersonic speeds, which is your greatest advantage. The same goes for taking any sort of wing damage or tail damage: it will instantly result in a huge amount of drag on the airframe, reducing your already poor energy retention in manoeuvres making you an easy target to pick off from afar and in effective gun range. Lastly, the engine is a massive target for guns and missiles alike. Having a slightly orange engine will effectively put you out of the fight. And with the already heavy weight of the F-104S, you require the engine power to stay in the fight.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

The most important modules to research are the ''Flares/Chaff'' modification, alongside the ''AIM-9B'' and ''AIM-9J'' air-to-air missiles. The ''Flight performance'' modifications also capitalize on this vehicle's speed advantage, while the missiles greatly increase its ability to do damage to the enemy, and along with its countermeasures, it gives you great breathing space against advanced missiles such as [[R-60]]s, [[Matra R550 Magic 2|Matra Magic]]s, and even the occasional, but dangerous [[PL-5B]] and [[AIM-9L_Sidewinder|AIM-9L]]s.

Some modifications that may be saved for last are the ''G-suit'', ''Offensive 20 mm'', and ''New 20 mm cannons'', as well as the modifications that allow the plane to equip bombs.

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
|-
! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs)
|-
| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Cross}}
|-
|}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}


The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* A choice between two presets:
** Without offensive armament
** 60 x countermeasures

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}


The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! !! width="4%" | 1 !! width="4%" | 2 !! width="4%" | 3 !! width="4%" | 4 !! width="4%" | 5 !! width="4%" | 6 !! width="4%" | 7 !! width="4%" | 8 !! width="4%" | 9 !! width="4%" | 10
| rowspan="15" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_F-104S.ASA.png]]</div>
|-
! [[M61A1 (20 mm)|20 mm M61A1]] cannons (750 rpg)
| || || || || || 1* || || || ||
|-
! [[LDGP Mk 81 (250 lb)|250 lb LDGP Mk 81]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 || || || 1 || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|500 lb LDGP Mk 82]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[Mk 82 Snakeye (500 lb)|500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[M117 cone 45 (750 lb)|750 lb M117 cone 45]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[LDGP Mk 83 (1,000 lb)|1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83]] bombs
| || || 1 || || 1 || || || 1 || ||
|-
! [[LDGP Mk 84 (2,000 lb)|2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84]] bombs
| || || || || 1 || || || || ||
|-
! [[BLU-1 incendiary]] bombs
| || 1 || 1 || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 || 1 ||
|-
! [[FFAR Mighty Mouse]] rockets
| || 19 || 19 || || || || || 19 || 19 ||
|-
! [[Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP]] rockets
| || 4 || || || || || || || 4 ||
|-
! [[AIM-7E Sparrow]] missiles
| || 1* || || || || || || || 1* ||
|-
! [[AIM-9B Sidewinder]] missiles
| 1 || 1 || || 1 || || || 1 || || 1 || 1
|-
! [[AIM-9J Sidewinder]] missiles
| 1 || 1 || || 1 || || || 1 || || 1 || 1
|-
| colspan="11" | Maximum permissible loadout weight: 3,400 kg Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 500 kg
|-
| colspan="12" | * AIM-7E Sparrow missiles cannot be equipped in conjunction with the 20 mm M61A1 cannon.
|-
|}

{{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}

* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon (750 rpg)
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 2 x AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 2 x AIM-9J Sidewinder missiles
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 6 x AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 6 x AIM-9J Sidewinder missiles
* 2 x AIM-7E Sparrow missiles
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 76 x FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 8 x Zuni Mk32 Mod 0 ATAP rockets
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 6 x 250 lb LDGP Mk 81 bombs (1,500 lb total)
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 7 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (3,500 lb total)
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 7 x 500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye bombs (3,500 lb total)
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 7 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (5,250 lb total)
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 3 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (3,000 lb total)
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 1 x 2,000 lb LDGP Mk 84 bomb (2,000 lb total)
* 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 7 x BLU-1 incendiary bombs
{{Navigation-End}}

The M61A1 Vulcan is a powerful gatling cannon that may be a fun surprise to Italian pilots. A quick and accurate burst can send targets into flames and the incredible rate of fire allows for some spray-and-pray, which is especially helpful considering how difficult it can be to get guns on target in this aircraft. But it has several drawbacks: first, the gun needs to spool up momentarily before it will fire, and second, the ammunition supply of 750 rounds will be depleted in no time if fired continuously. The former makes tap firing the gun to conserve ammunition a difficult affair but the latter means that holding down the trigger is not optimal either—certainly an awkward situation! New pilots can be afford to be somewhat more trigger-happy as they get used to the gun.

The F-104S has a very wide range of ordnance. For attacking ground targets, the bombs and rockets should be adequate.The largest individual bomb the F-104S can carry is 2,000 lbs, sufficient for clearing out a capture zone in mixed battles. Two types of rockets are available, 70 mm FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets and 130 mm Zuni rockets. The FFARs have a decent penetration of 290 mm but have small warheads with relatively low post-penetration damage. The Zunis are more potent but only 8 can be carried.

Thanks to the custom loadouts, it is possible to make a extremely diverse ordnance loadouts, and the {{PAGENAME}} is capable of carrying in the range of 3,700 kgs of bombs, rockets and missiles, and even with a ballistic computer assistance for all weapons, but with the cost of getting extremely and dangerously heavy and slow.

In the air-to-air missile department, the F-104S has access to AIM-9B and AIM-9J Sidewinders. The AIM-9B is disappointing at the F-104S's battle rating and is easily dodged or spoofed by a target who spots it coming. The AIM-9J, on the other hand, is one of the best IR missiles in the game, with good flight characteristics and high resistance to flares. They are very hard to dodge when launched correctly, even with efficient use of countermeasures. The F-104S can carry up to 6 of them, a record number of missiles for a Starfighter. The other option is the AIM-7E Sparrow, of which 2 can be carried, but cannot be taken in conjunction with the cannon. It requires a continuous radar lock to guide and will not work well at close distances or when looking towards the ground, but has very good range and can be fired at a target at any aspect.

Unlike the F-104G models available to [[F-104G|Germany]] and [[F-104G (China)|China]], the F-104S cannot carry guided air-to-ground missiles.

== Usage in battles ==


The F-104S does one thing extremely well: speed. This is the vehicle's greatest advantage, and can be used to great effect if the pilot is careful about choosing which engagements to pursue. It is recommended to keep up a high air-speed at all times, which will allow the F-104S to swoop in and out of the combat zone while evading powerful enemy missiles with its countermeasures and using its high speed to outrun enemy air-to-air missiles in certain situations. Countermeasures also help evade missiles if the {{PAGENAME}} find itself at low speed or other unforeseen circumstances where an enemy plane is able to get a jump on the {{PAGENAME}}.

However, the F-104S struggles with manoeuvrability. With such small wings, it simply can't produce the lift necessary to throw itself around the sky, and therefore has a very poor turning circle. This means that any turning engagement is most likely futile, and also re-emphasises the utility of a boom and zoom playstyle.

When used in conjunction with its speed, the available armaments really allow the F-104S to shine. The AIM-9Js, already difficult to dodge with their decent manoeuvrability, become nigh-on impossible to avoid when launched at supersonic speeds, particularly against much slower targets. With 6 of these missiles available, the pilot can be a little less frugal than would be the case with other aircraft. The AIM-7E Sparrows can also be a welcome addition in a high-altitude, long-range, all-aspect engagement, or the extremely accurate and powerful M61A1 Vulcan cannon can be used instead for quick head-ons and to mop any remaining opponents at close-range.

=== Radars ===

The F-104S is equipped with an NASARR search and tracking radar. The radar is mounted in the nose of the aircraft.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="4" | NASARR - Target Detection Radar
|-
! {{Annotation|Maximum Detection Range|The maximum possible range at which a target can be detected}}
! {{Annotation|Guaranteed Detection Range|The range, below which, detection of a target is practically guaranteed}}
! {{Annotation|Max Azimuth Scan Angle|How far to each side the radar can scan (widest search mode)}}
! {{Annotation|Max Elevation Scan Angle|How far up and down the radar can scan (widest search mode)}}
|-
| 37,000 m (theoretical) || 18,000 m || ±45.0° || ±43.0°
|-
! colspan="4" | NASARR - Target Tracking Radar
|-
! {{Annotation|Maximum Tracking Range|The maximum range at which a target can be tracked}}
! {{Annotation|Minimum Tracking Range|The range below which targets cannot be tracked by the radar}}
! {{Annotation|Azimuth Tracking Angle|How far to each side the radar can track a target}}
! {{Annotation|Elevation Tracking Angle|How far up and down the radar can track a target}}
|-
| 18,500 m || 150 m || ±10.0° || ±10.0°
|-
|}

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Excellent top speed even with some ordnance
* Great rate of climb
* Absurdly high rip speed of 1527Km/h and being possible reach that with a clean load
* Powerful M61 cannon with high fire rate, damage and velocity
* Significantly wider variety of payload options than early F-104s
* Good roll rate
* Can carry a total of six potent AIM-9Js or four AIM-9J and two AIM-7E missiles
* Has the ability to equip countermeasures like the F-104G and ASA, being extremely important at this rank for a F-104
* Has a drogue chute as well as excellent brakes

'''Cons:'''

* Can only use either the M61 cannon or the AIM-7E missiles at once, not both
* Very poor overall manoeuvrability and terrible manoeuvrability at low speeds
* Bleeds off airspeed quickly in sustained turns
* Only 750 rounds of cannon ammo, trigger discipline is a must
* No air-to-ground missiles
* The Radar Warning Receiver does not pick up a single soviet radar at this battle rating
* Despite being the fastest variant of the F-104, many planes in uptiers can follow and outrun the F-104
** And also being the heaviest and least manoeuvrable variant of all F-104s

== History ==


The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was a supersonic jet fighter known for its distinctive appearance, described as a "missile with a man in it". At the time of its introduction in 1958 with the US Air Force as an interceptor, the F-104 set multiple performance records and was the first production fighter capable of flying at twice the speed of sound. Flaws of the design included engine troubles, limited range, and poor handling characteristics that led to a poor safety record, earning it several morbid nicknames like "Widowmaker". The F-104G variant was modified for multi-role capabilities in line with German requirements and ultimately was adopted by several other NATO countries, including Italy.

The [[F-104G (Italy)|F-104G]] began to replace the [[CL-13 Mk.4|Canadair Sabre]] in Italian service beginning in 1963-1965. Although the airframes were not very old, the subsonic Sabres were already outdated compared to the new Mach-2 capable supersonic aircraft available to NATO and the Warsaw Pact. The Starfighters also supplanted the similarly outdated [[F-84G-21-RE (Italy)|F-84 Thunderjet]] fighter-bomber. As was the case for many foreign designs in Italian service, the F-104Gs were for the most part assembled locally by Fiat. They were configured in interceptor, strike, and reconnaissance variants. Trainer variants were also obtained. The original Lockheed ejection seats were replaced with Martin-Baker seats. In Italian hands, the F-104 earned the nickname of Spillone ("Hairpin"), no doubt due to its pointed, needle-like shape.

Despite its poor accident record, the F-104 proved to be popular with the Italian Air Force. In the mid 1960s, the Italian military began to look for new and more advanced aircraft. Options considered included the American [[F-4C|F-4 Phantom II]], British [[Lightning F.6|English Electric Lighting]], and French [[Mirage IIIC|Mirage III]]. Lockheed's proposal was an upgraded version of the Starfighter with the company designation of CL-901. This was to feature a new J79-GE-19 engine, slight modifications to the air intakes, improved avionics, extra pylons, and additional ventral fins. The CL-901 was ultimately selected due to its low price and the Italian industry's familiarity with the F-104, and it was produced as the '''F-104S'''. The first examples were modified from the F-104G.

Two configurations of the F-104S were produced. The F-104S/CI interceptor version replaced the internal cannon with additional avionics required to support the semi-active radar homing Sparrow missiles while the F-104S/CB fighter-bomber variant retained the gun. The two variants may have had different radars with features suited to their roles, though sources are unclear about this distinction. A total of 246 examples of the F-104S were produced over ten years from 1969-1979. An upgrade program was carried out in the 1980s while the Italian military was working on the Eurofighter Typhoon, resulting in the [[F-104S.ASA|F-104S-ASA]] (Amodernamento Sistema Arma; "Weapon Systems Upgrade").

The only combat service seen by the F-104 was in Serbia as part of Operation Allied Force, where they flew combat air patrols. They were finally retired by Italy in 2004, being replaced by the General dynamics F-16 Fighting falcon. This was due to the Eurofighter Typhoon not being fully operational yet. This brought the F-104's career worldwide to an end. The only other user of the F-104S was Turkey, who received 40 aircraft and used them alongside other F-104 models obtained from many countries. Turkey retired all its Starfighters by 1995.

The F-104 was a remarkable plane for its time and offered NATO countries a relatively simple aircraft with spectacular performance. Though Italy adopted the F-104 a few years after the United States and Germany, it used the F-104 for longer than any other country and the domestically produced F-104S was the most advanced variant built. Its service was marred by a frightening accident record, as over a third of all Italian F-104s were lost in crashes. By the time the F-104S was retired, 50 years had passed since the F-104's first flight in 1954.

A large number of F-104S Starfighters have survived today and are on display throughout Italy. A full list of survivors can be found [https://www.i-f-s.nl/preserved-f-104s/preserved-in-italy/ here].

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=f-104s Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Images
<gallery mode="packed" heights="150">
File:F-104S WTWallpaper 01.jpg|
File:F-104S WTWallpaper 02.jpg|
File:F-104S WTWallpaper 03.jpg|
File:F-104S WTWallpaper 04.jpg|
File:F-104S WTWallpaper 05.jpg|
File:F-104S WTWallpaper 06.jpg|
</gallery>

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|6grJB3S7DDs|'''Italian F-104S - Naked Guns''' - ''OddBawZ''}}

== See also ==


* [[F-104G (Italy)]]
* [[F-104S.ASA]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/6731-development-f-104-starfighter-the-manned-missile-en|[Devblog] F-104 Starfighter: The Manned Missile]]

{{AirManufacturer Fiat}}
{{Italy jet aircraft}}

AMX-13 (SS.11)

2020-03-27T18:21:35Z

U42416657: Well, I added an image of the tank and where it can be hit, and I wrote a little in the "Survivability and Armour" and "Mobility" paragraphs.

{{Specs-Card|code=fr_amx_13_75_ss11}}
{{About
|about=light tank '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
|usage=other uses
|link=AMX-13 (Family)
}}

== Description ==

[[File:GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
{{break}}
The '''{{specs|name}}''' is a gift Rank {{specs|rank}} French light tank {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.75 "La Résistance"]]. After [[Update 1.81 "The Valkyries"]] this vehicle was removed from purchase. [[Update 1.83 "Masters of the Sea"]] saw the return of this vehicle for 7,480 Golden Eagles.

The AMX-13 (SS.11) only difference from the AMX-13 light tank series is that rack of four deadly SS.11 missiles in the oscillating turret front. Everything else from the two protruding radio antennas to thee four smoke dischargers are quite identical to the original [[AMX-13]] model.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
The AMX-13 SS.11 is quite a typical light. No armour to speak about, except for a frontal plate able to stop some AA rounds, but this is undermined by having four missiles that behave like ammunition racks in the open on top of the gun. The survival of the tank depends on speed and stealth. (The 8,8mm KwK 43 which is usual at this tier will literally enter one side and exit the other one no matter where it shoots from).

'''Armour type:'''

* Cast homogeneous armour (Turret base, Turret front)
* Rolled homogeneous armour

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 20 mm (67°) ''Front glacis'' 20-40 mm (5-50°) ''Lower glacis'' || 20 mm || 15 mm ''Top'' 15 mm (45°) ''Bottom'' || 10 mm 5 mm ''Engine grille''
|-
| Turret || 40 mm (32-47°) ''Turret front'' 40 mm (12-41°) ''Turret base'' 40 mm (15-75°) ''Barrel shroud'' || 20 mm (0-30°) ''Turret'' 20 mm (12-14°) ''Turret base'' || 20 mm ''Turret bustle'' 20 mm (17-22°) ''Pivot ball'' 10 mm (77-90°) ''Turret underside'' || 10 mm
|-
! Armour !! Sides !! Roof
|-
| Cupola || 20 mm || 10 mm
|-
|}
'''Notes:'''

* Suspension wheels and tracks are 15 mm thick.
* Belly armour is 10 mm thick.
* 8 mm Structural steel firewall separates the driver from the engine.
* The track and wheel on the front glacis offer about 15 mm structural steel thickness.

=== Mobility ===


{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 418|rbMinHp= 239}}The AMX-13 SS.11 is a quite speedy light. Not [[Ru 251]] levels, but still fast enough to get you to the spot you want to be in. 270hp for 15 500kg equals to about 17,4hp/t, which gives an OK acceleration, and good top speed. But, at 6.7 speed gets less and less effective as your opposition gets higher velocity, better accuracy and stabilisation devices. Therefore, you should use the mobility to get to stealthy positions (like the bushes around the temple at C on Japan). That's where this tank shines.

== Armaments ==
=== Main armament ===

{{main|SA50 (75 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="6" | [[SA50 (75 mm)|75 mm SA50 L/57]]
|-
! style="width:5em" rowspan="1" colspan="3" |Capacity
! rowspan="1" | Vertical guidance
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal guidance
! rowspan="1" | Stabilizer
|-
| colspan="3" | 36 || -6°/+13° || ±180° || N/A
|-
! colspan="6" | Turret rotation speed (°/s)
|-
! style="width:4em" |Mode
! style="width:4em" |Stock
! style="width:4em" |Upgraded
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
|-
| ''Arcade'' || 28.56 || 39.55 || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
|-
| ''Realistic'' || 17.9 || 21.0 || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
|-
! colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! style="width:4em" colspan="1" |Stock
! style="width:4em" colspan="1" |Prior + Full crew
! style="width:4em" colspan="1" |Prior + Expert qualif.
! style="width:4em" colspan="1" |Prior + Ace qualif.
|-
| 45.0 || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
|-
|}

===== Ammunition =====
{| width="100%" class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! class="unsortable" rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! colspan="6" | '''Penetration''' '''''in mm''''' '''@ 90°'''
|-
! 10m
! 100m
! 500m
! 1000m
! 1500m
! 2000m
|-
| POT-51A || APC || 168 || 163 || 140 || 110 || 95 || 82
|-
| 75mm HE || HE || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10
|-
| PCOT-51P || APCBC || 180 || 176 || 163 || 150 || 136 || 126
|-
|}
Important notice: You '''CAN NOT''' penetrate the turret of a [[Tiger II (H)|Tiger II H]] or [[Tiger II (10.5 cm Kw.K)|Tiger II H 105]] frontally no matter what shell you use (yes it says you can but it's such a low chance that you should never count on it)
{| width="100%" class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="11" | Shell details
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! class="unsortable" rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! rowspan="2" |Velocity in m/s
! rowspan="2" |Projectile Mass in kg
! rowspan="2" | ''Fuse delay''
''in m:''
! rowspan="2" | ''Fuse sensitivity''
''in mm:''
! rowspan="2" | ''Explosive Mass in g (TNT equivalent):''
! rowspan="2" | ''Normalization At 30° from horizontal:''
! colspan="3" | ''Ricochet:''
|-
! 0%
! 50%
! 100%
|-
| POT-51A || APC || 1,000 || 6.4 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ° || 48° || 63° || 71°
|-
| 75mm HE || HE || 753 || 6.2 || 0.4 || 0.1 || 675 || +0° || 79° || 80° || 81°
|-
| PCOT-51P || APCBC || 1,000 || 6.4 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ° || 48° || 63° || 71°
|-
|}

===== [[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] =====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumbnail|250px|[[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}.]]
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Full ammo
! class="wikitable unsortable" |1st rack empty
! class="wikitable unsortable" |2nd rack empty
! class="wikitable unsortable" |3rd rack empty
! class="wikitable unsortable" |4th rack empty
! class="wikitable unsortable" |5th rack empty
! class="wikitable unsortable" |6th rack empty
! class="wikitable unsortable" |7th rack empty
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Visual discrepancy
|-
|| '''36''' || 31 ''(+5)'' || 27 ''(+9)'' || 22 ''(+14)'' || 17 ''(+19)'' || 12 ''(+24)'' || 6 ''(+30)'' || 1 ''(+35)'' || style="text-align:left" | no
|-
|}

Rack #6 and #7 are ready racks for the autoloader.

=== Additional armament ===

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="6" | 164 mm SS-11 ATGM
|-
! style="width:5em" rowspan="1" colspan="3" |Capacity
! rowspan="1" | Vertical guidance
! rowspan="1" | Flight speed (m/s)
! rowspan="1" | Range (m)
|-
| colspan="3" | 4 || N/A || 150 || 6,500
|-
|}

=== Machine guns ===

{{main|MAC 31 (7.5 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="7" | [[MAC 31 (7.5 mm)|7.5 mm MAC 31]]
|-
! colspan="7" | ''Coaxial mount''
|-
! style="width:5em" rowspan="1" colspan="4" |Capacity (Belt capacity)
! rowspan="1" | Fire rate (shots/minute)
! rowspan="1" | Vertical guidance
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal guidance
|-
| colspan="4" | 4,950 (150) || 1,350 || N/A || N/A
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

The AMX-13 is a flanker. This combined with the SS.11 ATGMs on board gives the ability to do two different styles. Either to zoom around (shoot’n’scoot) or stand far back and send missiles flying towards the enemies. In RB though, the missiles are controlled by WASD, making aiming a little bit more difficult. Furthermore, avoid getting shot at '''all cost!''' The armour might save you from 0.50 cals, but 14.5 mm and larger will destroy the vehicle in its entirety. Flanking is a viable option, done in the same way as M18, without the penetration needed for frontal armour.

The AMX-13 (SS.11) is exceptionally fast and agile, but sacrifices armour to achieve this. Due to this, it's best to use this tank as either a hit-and-fade flanker or as a standoff sniper, especially with the SS.11 ATGMs onboard.

Try to get around areas that enemy tanks would not typically expect a light tank to be and wait in ambush position for enemy tanks to pass through. Due to being able to get a shot at the sides, the cannon should be used for the first shot, and especially so due to the auto-loading system able to load in rounds in about six seconds. Utilize the SS.11 missiles during these reload times to ensure that the enemy target is annihlated.

As a stand off sniper, don't be anywhere too near the front line where allies and enemies are duking it out. Try to stay around the corner, only peeking out a bit only to hit at an enemy not paying attention with the 75 mm cannon, or precision targeting with the SS.11 missiles. Take care not to hit any allies when firing the missiles from a distance.

=== Pros and cons ===

'''Pros:'''
[[File:AMX-13 SS.11 damage areas.png|thumb|Areas and their respective damage on the AMX-13 SS.11, frontally. Blue: A hit here will make the tank immobile, either from engine damage or driver incapacitation.

Green: A hit here can take out its return fire capabilities, but it may still move around.

Red: A hit here might take the tank out from loss of crew.

Orange: A hit here could ignite the ammunition in the tank, which usually ends bad for the tank that was hit.

This is also true for the side, but from the side, the rear is filled with ammunition and the front is the engine compartment.]]

* Main cannon autoloader with 12 shots ready to go
* Nice cannon that will penetrate sides of other vehicles
* A total of four (4) SS.11 Missiles ready to go
* SS.11 penetrates 600 mm of 90 degrees RHA at any range
* SS.11 has a rather small guidance dead zone of about 200 meters compared to other missiles (RB/SB)
* For once, oscillating turret of AMX-13 is not only a downside, as it allows to fire SS.11 over cover (mostly useful in AB)
* AMX-13 low profile allows for easier concealability among terrain
* Mobile enough to flank
* Has great acceleration to get up to speed
* Has a lot of smoke dischargers, which cover a lot of terrain in one go

'''Cons:'''

* Cannon may not be reliable enough to penetrate vehicles from the front at this rank
* After the auto-loader is emptied, gun will not reload until it is rearmed, which takes a long time
* SS.11 still has a guidance dead zone, which means, in very close combat you have to aim in between the tank and opponent to hit the target, or it will just fly over them
* Missiles are aimed with WASD movement keys, tank must be stopped when guiding missile to target (RB/SB)
* Missile racks cover up a portion of the sight from the tank gunner's persepctive
* Non-existent armour, but will protect against the .50 cal M2 frontally. Anywhere else it goes right through
* Aerial strafing may penetrate through the roof armour
* HESH (High Explosive Squash Head) and HE obliterates this vehicle
* SPAA can and will obliterate the AMX-13
* Three crew members in a cramped tank means an inability to take a loss without dip in combat efficiency or outright destruction
* Top speed is rather poor for a light tank
* Smoke dischargers fire all at once, player will have to make the most of that one screen

== History ==

Initial development of the AMX-13 began after WW2 ended. In 1946, the French army needed a new fighting vehicle to support paratrooper units. This new vehicle needed to be fast and lightweight with a maximum weight of 13 tons.The contract was awarded to the state-owned Atelier de Construction d'Issy-les-Moulineaux (AMX) company, which was located close to Paris. AMX was able to quickly design the new vehicle and build the first prototypes in just 3 years.After successfully blazing through initial trials, AMX started producing the AMX-13 in the early 1950s. Production continued well into the 1980s as the aging AMX-13 was continually modernized, modified, and upgraded.The AMX-13 SS.11 is a modernized version of the AMX-13 developed during the Cold War. By 1962, the AMX-13’s standard 75mm cannon had become less effective against the armour of contemporary tanks, some of which had begun using composite armour.

In 1962, the French military high command approved modernization work for the AMX-13 to upgrade and increase the AMX-13’s firepower. However, while increasing firepower was the primary goal, the French high command didn’t want to exceed the AMX-13’s weight. This limited options and ruled out major upgrades, so the engineers decided to mount four SS.11 first generation ATGM launchers to the front of the turret.The changes were incremental but achieved the desired effect. Thanks to the ATGMs, the AMX-13 could now effectively engage targets up to 3km away and penetrate up to 600mm of steel armour—something previously impossible for the 75mm cannon alone.The AMX-13 SS.11 joined the ranks of the French army in the 1960s and continued to serve for well over two decades.

''- From [https://warthunder.com/en/news/5149-development-amx-13-ss-11-en Devblog]''

== Media ==

{{Youtube-gallery|sY_f5S8BuoU|Premium Vehicles - AMX-13 SS.11|G-sMfeWsEq0|'''The Shooting Range #148''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 04:17 discusses the AMX-13 (SS.11).}}

== See also ==
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''

* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

== External links ==


* [https://warthunder.com/en/news/5149-development-amx-13-ss-11-en [Devblog<nowiki>]</nowiki> AMX-13 SS.11]

{{France light tanks}}
{{France premium ground vehicles}}
[[Category:ATGM vehicles]]

File:AMX-13 SS.11 damage areas.png

2020-03-27T18:10:30Z

U42416657:

AMX-13 SS.11s damage areas. I was inspired by the one for the Tiger II
Made in Paint with material from War Thunder

File:AMX-13 crew positions.png

2020-03-27T18:05:18Z

U42416657:

Shows the crew positions of the AMX-13. Made in Paint with materials from War Thunders hangar.

Flakpanzer 341

2020-03-27T10:13:58Z

U42416657: Filled in most of the paragraphs. Not sure if this is good or not, but atleast I tried

{{Specs-Card|code=germ_flakpanzer_V_Coelian}}

== Description ==


The '''{{Specs|name}}''', also known as '''Flakpanzer V Coelian''', is a rank {{Specs|rank}} German SPAA {{Battle-rating}}. This vehicle was originally introduced as a main tree vehicle, however as of [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]] it was shifted to become a gift vehicle for players who previously owned it.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
The Flakpanzer 341 is in practice an anti-aircraft turret put on top of the chassis of a [[Panther G]]. The frontal glacis can deflect some hasty shots, but most enemies will aim at your turret, which is armoured with a not so good amount of 60mm angled at 40 degrees to give about 75mm of effective armour. As with the other [[Panther tank (Family)|Panthers]], side armour is practically a joke, flat 50mm, while the rear armour is 40mm angled at 25 degrees for 45mm effective armour. The rest of the turret, sides and rear, is armoured with a flat 40mm of armour.
[[File:Coelian crew positions.png|thumb|346x346px|Flakpanzer 341s crew positions. As you clearly see here, the Driver, Gunner and Commander are all lined up if it shows its front to you, which means that the best place to shoot is the right side of the upper glacis]]
One interesting thing is that even though the entire tank is filled to the brim with ammunition, it does not die from it exploding too often, but rather from the quite usual "Crew knocked out". The tank has the same crew as a standard Panther, a driver, gunner, commander, loader and radio operator. The turret houses the gunner, commander and loader while the driver and radio operator sits in the hull front.

=== Mobility ===


{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 852|rbMinHp= 531|}}

As the tank is built on a [[Panther G]] chassis, it retains most of the mobility. As with the Panther G, the engine is a downgrade from the [[Panther A]] and [[Panther D]], with 600hp rather than 700hp. This means that it has a somewhat sluggish acceleration, but better top speed than other anti aircraft vehicles due to its torsion bar suspension. A negative point is the extremely poor reverse speed: only -3 km/h (AB & RB).

== Armaments ==
=== Main armament ===
The Flakpanzer 341 is armed with 2 [[FlaK44 (37 mm)|37mm FlaK 44]] cannons side by side in the turret. These guns have enough damage potential to down a single engine aircraft with a single M.Gr. 18 shot, with 2 or 3 needed to down larger aircraft. The guns have a fire rate of 250 shots per minute each, which gives a shot per second value of about 4 per gun. This should be enough to shoot down the planes that usually populate the air in battles in 6.7 like A2Ds, Su6s and the like. Furthermore, the turret traverse speed, clocking in on 49,7 deg/sec when spaded, is incredible for its BR, and the fastest of the non-radar SPAA.

== Usage in battles ==
''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''

The Flakpanzer 341 should be used as a vehicle of its class. It has the armament and fire rate to take out aircraft, but lacks the penetration rates to effectively combat heavier tanks. Remember that the lead on the Flakpanzer 341 is less than on the Bofors due to its higher velocity (914m/s vs 874m/s) while having better damage. You can also go hunt light tanks which rarely have the armour to stand up against your 49mm penetration, but make sure that you kill them before they get a chance to kill you. Here is a list of some of the vehicles you CAN take on:

[[AMX-13 (Family)|AMX-13 series]]: Side armour. Shoot their tracks to bits and then their barrel. For the SS.11 version you could just spam down the missile rack.

[[M56]] and [[M50|M50 Ontos]]: Anywhere. Preferably with AP to maximise damage (yes it has explosive filler).

[[T92]]: Shoot it until it stops, then shoot the mini turrets.

[[M42|M42 Duster]]: Anywhere. Preferably the tracks so that it stops, then the turret crew.

[[BMP-1]]: Turret or side. You won't get through the front.

[[SU-100P|Su-100P]]: anywhere

[[FV4005|Fv4005]]: Just spam its turret to bits and you should be fine

[[R3 T106 FA]], [[FIAT 6614|Fiat 6614]] and [[R3 T20 FA-HS]]: anywhere. Just shoot them before they shoot you (except T20 FA-HS it can't kill you)

But remember, aircraft will still be your primary targets as an SPAA.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Good armour for an anti-aircraft vehicle
* Incredible turret traverse speed for its BR
* 3.7 cm guns are devastating to enemy aircraft
* Has smoke grenades

'''Cons:'''

* Slow reverse speed
* Very high repair cost at Arcade Battle
* Low penetration power on AP shell
* Smoke grenades are single shot, and uses a while to hit the ground

== History ==

The 3,7 cm Flakzwilling auf Panther Fahrgestell, Flakpanzer 341, also known as the ''Flakpanzer V Coelian'', was a concept for a Flakpanzer first proposed in early 1944. Reacting to the increased threat posed by fighter-bombers and low altitude attackers, a proposal was made for a Flakpanzer based on the hull of a Panzer V Panther. This would have a fully enclosed turret to protect the crews from enemy fire, unlike the turrets of vehicles that were already in use such as the [[Flakpanzer 38]] or the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6belwagen Flakpanzer IV Möbelwagen]. In response to this tender, Rheinmetall developed the "Coelian", originally envisaging a number of turret and armament variants such as the ''2cm Flak-Vierling 151'' armed with four 20 mm MG 151/20 guns. However, the German Army High Command's requirements kept on changing, demanding for ever heavier armaments and armour, and eventually two different designs were settled upon in May of 1944, one armed with a twinned 3.7 cm Flakzwilling 44, and one with a newly designed 5.5 cm Flak gun.

However, by the time the design had been finalised, external factors had already more or less decided its fate. The impact of the Allied strategic bombing campaign on the German arms manufacturing industry, the lack of raw materials, and the need for ever increasing quantities of Panther tanks meant that no Panther hulls could be released for the Coelian project. Work on the design was given a lower priority, and by February of 1945 only a single wooden mock-up model of the 3.7 cm twin-gun tower on the hull of a Panther D had been completed. The war ended before an actual prototype could be constructed.

=== In-game description ===
A planned self-propelled anti-air installation based on a Panther tank from which the turret was removed and replaced with a special, newly-designed turret with paired 37mm FlaK 44 guns. The project never existed as a fully-constructed model. The project was cancelled due to Germany's defeat. It had reached the phase of having a tank chassis with a wooden model of the planned turret installed on it.

In December, 1943 a wooden mockup of the turret was built and installed on the chassis of a remodeled Pz.Kpfw.V Ausf.D Panther. Since the Pz.Kpfw.V Ausf.G Panther modification was already being produced, the AA vehicle was supposed to be built on the chassis of this modification with the option to install full-metal rollers with internal amortization. The number of serially produced vehicles has not been determined. Whether or not it was ever used in combat conditions is also unknown.

== Media ==
''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''

== See also ==
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''

* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

== External links ==
''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''

* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''encyclopedia page on the tank;''
* ''other literature.''

{{Germany anti-aircraft vehicles}}
[[Category:Hidden vehicles]]

File:Crew positions Flakpanzer 341.png

2020-03-27T09:54:36Z

U42416657:

Flakpanzer 341s crew positions. Made in the hangar in War Thunder with a little help from Paint.

User:U42416657

2019-10-19T20:09:44Z

U42416657: me making my own page hee hee

Aw come on did you delete this one too? Well anyway I'm TheSEB, an active player of War Thunder (and also quite bad for that fact), that went here one time long ago to find help and found out that I want to help others too. Current fav plane: Su6 AM42 or 262A1U4. Tank: Either Vickers MBT mk 1 or AMX 13 SS 11