War Thunder Wiki - User contributions [en]

M-51

2023-02-20T21:33:45Z

U30121802: Undo revision 155769 - It is not correct. Reserve tanks have permanent free repairs. The M-51 has a massive repair price instead.At worst it's flat out wrong. At best it is misleading.

{{About
| about = Israeli medium tank '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = the premium version
| link = M-51 (W)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=il_m_51
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Israeli medium tank {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Wind of Change"]]. It looks similar to the [[M4A1 (76) W]], but feels smoother at the edges and has a different weapon.

It's important to know, that even if you gain access to this tank, your beginning crew level is still level 1 (meaning, that you can't even buy expert qualification for the crew), while everyone around has level 30 to 60 and (very likely) an expert training.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}


The hull armour is mostly inadequate. Almost every popular tank in the BR range can penetrate the tank's front with ease even when it is presented at an extreme angle, short of light tanks and SPAAs. Still, frontal armour can protect the tank from bombs and rockets. The side armour is quite weak and is arguable the weakest part of the tank, as even SPAA can penetrate it at various angles. The rear is technically the best protected side when it comes to hopeless situations - if the opponent hits too high, then shell bounces into tough turret and does nothing; if opponent hits too low, then engine might stop the shell. Unfortunately, tank's awful reverse speed does not allow it to charge with rear forward, so it can only be used defensively.

The turret armour is bad and good. Turret sides are unlikely to protect from anything but 20 mm SPAA, but the front is decent. The gun mantlet actually allows the turret to deflect stray shots and can allow the tank to fight in hulldown position, but the turret's top is not cut off on the "mask" level, but higher. The actual roof is connected to it with 26 mm RHA plate, which is not even angled enough to bounce shells in the first place, and most of opponents in tank's rank are either extremely tall, have angle negating shells, or both. Because of this, if the M-51 is charging into high ground, it is easily destroyed before it can even fire, especially in AB. By keeping distance and vertical angle, the tank can reduce the probability of being penetrated.

'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour (hull side bottom, hull roof - engine)
* Cast homogeneous armour (hull, turret, cupola)

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 63.5 mm (44°) ''Upper glacis'' 63.5 mm (cylindrical) ''Transmission housing'' 38.1 mm ''Hull corners'' || 38 mm (2-15°) ''Top'' 38 mm ''Bottom'' || 38 mm (14°) || 63.5 mm (46°) ''Front glacis'' 19.5 mm ''Crew compartment'' 20 mm ''Engine compartment'' 9.5-9.5+4 mm ''Engine vents''
|-
| Turret || 55 mm (12°) ''Turret front'' 80 - 250 mm ''Gun mantlet'' || 51 mm (10-17°) || 51 mm 51 mm (65°) ''Bustle'' || 25.4 mm
|-
| Cupola || colspan="3" style="text-align:center" | 63.5 mm (cylindrical) || 25.4 mm
|-
|}
'''Notes:'''

* Suspension wheels are 15 mm thick, tracks are 20 mm thick, and torsion bars are 10 mm thick.

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


Without upgrades, even in AB the tank will never be able to take initiative from opponents, as it accelerates poorly and loses a lot of momentum when turning at low/zero crew level - opponents will always be first to the capture point and almost always will react faster in combat.

With all the upgrades, it is still slower than most of other tanks, but it will feel far less clunky to drive and will more often reach maximum speed. It will also accelerate surprisingly fast, for how it performed before.

Remember, the reverse speed on this tank is only 3-5 km/h, combined with poor hull plating it requires the commander to make decisions count, or to not rely on mobility at all.

{{tankMobility|abMinHp=713|rbMinHp=407}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|M-51 (105 mm)}}

The gun fires HEAT and HE with characteristics typical of a rank IV SPG, but its velocity is very close to the default APHE (usually a bit slower), which makes learning curve less strict than it normally is. The tank is also reasonably tall, so HEAT does not lose a lot of power like with the SPG of the rank, which struggle with heavy tanks due to an insane angle of attack.
[[File:M51 heat long range attack over cover.jpg|thumb|right|At medium to long range, the minor difference in HEAT and APHE velocity may allow M51 to outplay superior tanks]]
Gun accuracy is great even without the gun adjustment upgrade and with zero crew experience, but its vertical elevation speed is awful, and the gun is constantly tilted by changes of movement pace, which makes handling it difficult. This makes personal user skill to fire on move without braking a necessity.

The only way to reduce the tilt is to upgrade movement modules, as it reduces the tilt threefold. Due to the low gun elevation speed, the elevation mechanism upgrade is a must have, and it is generally a good idea to pull the gun up before charging downhill, as to not disarm the tank in process, particularly at low crew level.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[M-51 (105 mm)|105 mm M-51]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 56 || rowspan="2" | -8°/+20° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 22.8 || 31.6 || 38.4 || 42.5 || 45.2 || rowspan="2" | 9.75 || rowspan="2" | 8.63 || rowspan="2" | 7.95 || rowspan="2" | 7.50
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 14.3 || 16.8 || 20.4 || 22.6 || 24.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{{:M-51 (105 mm)/Ammunition|OCC 105 F1, OE 105 F1 Mle.60, OFPH 105 F1}}

HEAT shells destroy any tank regardless of its armour. They can be used at point blank range to knock out [[Panther tank (Family)|Panthers]] with a single shot by hitting their hull straight to the middle. They can also be used in typical HEAT fashion to bombard any enemy 600 m away over a hill, even without direct sight - returned APHE fire will not hit the tank back, since it's generally a bit faster, and even if there is an artillery genius on the other side, the gun mask should be able to handle it.

The HE shell is nice to have. Even if it's difficult to memorize which tank's roofs it can penetrate, the HE can be used to bully sneaky light tanks and beat certain SPGs like the [[Type 75 SPH]].

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''56''' || 33 ''(+23)'' || 9 ''(+47)'' || 4 ''(+52)'' || 1 ''(+55)'' || No
|-
|}

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|3}}

{{main|M1919A4 (7.62 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[M1919A4 (7.62 mm)|7.62 mm M1919A4]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Pintle || 750 (250) || 500 || -10°/+60° || ±180°
|-
| Coaxial || 4,750 (250) || 500 || N/A || N/A
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

The M-51 has poor armour for its BR, which is why you should never get into a brawl. Even though the overall armour might not be suited for close-range engagements, the hull armour is kind of decent at long ranges but is really good against bombs and rockets. Pick off targets from long range and avoid being spotted so do not hang around in one spot for too long. Your eather thin armour means that you cannot risk taking even a single hit especially from the side as you will be destroyed instantly. Aerial opponents are also a threat.

;Enemies worth noting

* [[Panther D]] - If the Panther presents its front, then shoot the left side of the mantlet where the gunner and the commander sits, which will effectively disable it. You can then try and shoot the front to knock out the rest of the crew.
* [[IS-2]] - This Soviet tank has better armour than you but your excellent 105 mm gun with HEAT shells should have no problem penetrating it. However, you must make sure that you shoot first to disable its gunner. Shoot at the turret if the IS-2 is presenting its front. The IS-2 has poor gun depression which can be used against it on hilly maps when it attempts to climb up a hill.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* 400 mm penetration HEAT launcher is a death sentence for any tank
* Gun mantlet can block or bounce inaccurate shots, decent for hulldown tactics
* The gun is reasonably accurate even when stock and with untrained crew
* There are three of them, which means you only have to pay for the repair once (there are also free repairs several times)
* Gun scope has great zoom
* Decent gun depression

'''Cons:'''

* Very bouncy gun; paired with the poor vertical gun elevation speed any panic on commander's side is fatal
* HEAT rounds are highly unreliable with mostly poor post-penetration damage
* No .50 cal heavy machine gun
* Fire-on-the-move techniques take time to be fully mastered
* Turret armour has a fatal flaw which makes it weak when charging into high ground (or in general against good snipers in AB)
* The hull armour offers little protection at the rank, giving the vehicle a low survivability
* When initially unlocked, must be used with a level 1 crew with no expert training against elite crews of other nations - very high personal skill requirement or patience strain

== History ==

''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=il_m_51 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|MjrWPIFOiBA|'''M-51 “Super Sherman”, Israeli, Tier-4, Medium Tank''' - ''Angry Nerd Gaming''}}

== See also ==


* [[M-51 (W)]]

== External links ==

''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''

* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''other literature.''

{{TankManufacturer Israeli Ordnance Corps}}
{{Israel medium tanks}}

M-51

2023-02-20T21:14:20Z

U30121802: Undo revision 155763 by U44629479 (talk)

M-51

2023-02-20T19:26:54Z

U30121802: /* Description */ Removed false statement. It's not a reserve tank at all, in fact it has an extremely steep repair cost.

C. 202EC

2022-12-03T21:04:39Z

U30121802: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = Italian fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = C. 202 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=mc-202_ec
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Italian fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.69 "Regia Aeronautica"]] alongside the initial Italian aviation tree. The "EC" in the name stands for ''Esperimento Cannoni'' or Experimental Cannons.

The Folgore (''Lightning'') is a solid plane for its battle rating, especially in AB where its performance is exaggerated. With a decent climb rate when spaded, high top speed, good roll rate, solid energy retention, and two powerful MG 151's that have access to the dreaded German ''Minengeschoß'' round, this plane is devastating in the right hands.

However, one major issue the Folgore has is that it is hard to use for inexperienced players. The Folgore is a plane that does not allow for any mistakes. If you let its good performance get to your head, the only thing you'll get out of it is a burning Italian fighter. This is a plane that requires a high skill ceiling and a smart pilot to unlock its full potential.

The second major issue the Folgore has is that the twin Breda SAFAT's have low damage output. It needs quite an extended burst of fire to deal decent amount of damage. Furthermore, the Breda SAFAT's damage potential drops off when fired at ranges further than 300 meters. This poor secondary armament also makes it less then optimal at engaging bombers and heavy fighters. The consensus by the community is that the best belts are Anti-Air, Tracer or Stealth for the 12.7 mm's, and Stealth or Air Targets for the 20 mm MG 151/20s. These tend to do the most damage.

While neither of these are crippling, they are something to keep in mind, especially due to the punishing nature of the plane.

In AB, the Folgore truly shines. A boosted flight model and increased performance make it a monster of a plane that any player should watch out for.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}

In essence very similar to the [[Bf 109 F-4|Bf 109 F]] with gunpods: Great climb rate and acceleration and with good top speed and turn rate. Yet the 20 mm gunpods dampen all positive aspects, performance was definitively traded in for firepower. Dive performance is great, yet the control surfaces lock up hard above 600 km/h IAS. So leave plenty of space to pull out of a dive, it reaches said speeds rather quickly! Even so the locked controls prevent G-force failure of wings - a blessing in disguise for many new inexperienced RB/SB pilots. Energy retention in Zooms is good, too. This however, is mostly due to the aforementioned climb rate which is engine enabled. A damaged engine guts and severely hinders most flight characteristics.

Like its German brother in heart the Folgore also features several downsides: The engine torque is significant and will roll the aircraft to the side when performing any kind of manoeuvre. Note the slightly longer left wing to at least neuter this effect in level flight, unlike the Bf 109 pilots who will have to permanently trim their ailerons on the runway. Further aiming and aligning yourself to the target can thusly be rather difficult, as the craft will twitch and shift significantly. As usual lead in deflection shots are the easiest approach. The control lock up was already mentioned and must always be considered. The {{PAGENAME}} has a mediocre turn and climb rate and suffers from engine overheating.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 5,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 549 || 530 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 21.1 || 21.9 || 10.4 || 10.4 || rowspan="2" | 350
|-
! Upgraded
| 595 || 571 || 18.9 || 20.0 || 17.1 || 13.4
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear
|-
| ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || X 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 820  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || 535 || 450 || 260 || ~15 || ~6
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 400 || < 270 || < 550 || > 350
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

Quite vulnerable to all weapons fire. The engine and water coolers lack any protection and are often the first to go under fire. The pilot is not much better. While the windscreen is quite thick it is also very small and the 8 mm of steel will only stop a sneeze. Any calibre past 7 mm will kiss your pilot's cheek.

Ace Tip #1 applies: ''Don't get shot at!''

* 8 mm Steel - Armoured headrest
* 50 mm Bulletproof glass - Armoured windscreen

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

The Folgore's focus on energy fighting should be reflected in the desired grind strategy. Compressor & Engine are the top priority, boosting the acceleration and climb to the maximum needed for most situations. The next upgrades are free to choose. New belts are always nice, but the default ones are decent. Engine throttle as of now has no impact on performance.

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|MG 151 (20 mm)|Breda-SAFAT (12.7 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 2 x 20 mm MG 151 cannons, wing-mounted (250 rpg = 500 total)
* 2 x 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns, nose-mounted (400 rpg = 800 total)

== Usage in battles ==

The first most important thing the Folgore needs is Speed, and Altitude. It's generally a good idea to climb to at least 5000 - 6000 meters before levelling out and gaining speed. From there on, it's Boom and Zoom, working your way from top to bottom. Priority should be given to [[P-39 (Family)|P-39 Airacobra]]'s, [[F6F (Family)|F6F Hellcats]] and the early [[Spitfire (Family)|Spitfire]], as these are hard to beat if they are allowed to engage on their terms. The Hellcat is a considerable problem for the Folgore, due to the fact its considerably faster and climbs only slightly worse. The best way of dealing with them is to fight them at speeds above 400 km/h, where the Hellcat begins to stiffen up, but you retain your very good roll rate, which you can use to spoil his gun solution by constantly changing direction.

While diving on your chosen target, be mindful of your speed: the Folgore's rate of roll becomes considerably worse when you hit 600 km/h, so its a good idea to cut throttle at the final part of your dive slowing your acceleration down by a bit. Also when trying to lead an enemy plane that is making a hard break turn, try to prevent making high G turns or turns that burn a lot of speed, this mostly happens when you dive in at a shallow angle, as it kills all the speed you have, forcing you to engage in a dogfight, where the turn rate offers an advantage to the enemy. While it's doable, it's generally better to run, by going into a shallow dive and retreating. Alternatively, engage in a shallow climb, the rate of climb is one of the best at its tier, meaning that if you have a small speed advantage you can get some separation and climb away.

The guns make it unsuited to effectively engage bombers, especially the well defended bombers such as the B-25 and the A-20. It's better to team up with your teammates than try to attack them on your own. It is best to aim for the engines and wings, basically engaging them the same way as you would engage fighters.
Furthermore, the Folgore can't carry any bombs, so its useless in ground attack role.

For belts use "Tracers", "Air Targets" or "Stealth" as they deal the most damage, with a good mix of incendiary and shrapnel. With the Breda-SAFATs, focus on taking out the engines.

====Specific enemies worth noting====


* [[Bf 109 (Family)|Bf 109]] - The Messerschmitts you will encounter at this rank have a higher climb rate and better energy retention. While uncommon, you can encounter the [[Bf 109 F-4]] at this BR, which outclasses the Folgore in every way. Don't engage them unless you have an advantage.
* [[Spitfire (Family)|Spitfire]] - The legendary British fighters have a higher climb rate than the Folgore does and have a turning circle that would make many aircraft but the A6M Zero blush. However they are terrible at altitude and worse in the vertical, where the Folgore performs the best. Do not take them lightly.
* [[F6F (Family)|F6F-5 Hellcat]] - A considerable problem for the Folgore. The Hellcat is faster than the Folgore and climbs only slightly worse. With its six .50 cal Browning M2's, it can tear the Folgore to shreds in one pass.

=== Manual Engine Control ===
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="7" | MEC elements
|-
! rowspan="2" | Mixer
! rowspan="2" | Pitch
! colspan="3" | Radiator
! rowspan="2" | Supercharger
! rowspan="2" | Turbocharger
|-
! Oil !! Water !! Type
|-
| Not controllable || Controllable Not auto controlled || Controllable Not auto controlled || Controllable Not auto controlled || Separate || Not controllable 1 gear || Not controllable
|-
|}

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Good rate of roll under 600 km/h
* Decent cockpit visibility, especially to the rear
* Decent energy retention in horizontal turns
* Great firepower (2 x MG 151/20 cannons with Minengeschoß rounds and 2 x 12.7 Breda-SAFAT machine guns)

'''Cons:'''

* Large turn radius, the {{PAGENAME}} is clearly not as agile as its predecessor
* Thick canopy frame can make spotting hard from cockpit view
* Bad climb rate compared to the original [[C. 202]]
* Locks up at speeds above 600 km/h (don't dive at 90° angle at a victim that is lower than 1.5 km above ground!)
* Very vulnerable engine (take care with head-ons and rear gunners)
* Overheats easily
* Relatively slow, most things at its BR can catch it
* Poor BR considering that it has similar firepower to the [[Fw 190 A-1]]

== History ==

[[File:FighterImage_Mc202folgore01.jpg|thumbnail|right|Folgore in an olive grove]]
The famed Italian ace Maggiore Adriano Visconti flew the Folgore, as well as the predecessor Macchi C.200 Saetta and the successor Macchi C.205 Veltro.

In late 1941 the newer and deadlier Macchi M.C.202 Folgore (Thunderbolt) began to equip units of 7° Gruppo, and in early 1942 Visconti began flying the sleek, new fighter on photo reconnaissance sorties over Malta. Throughout these early years of the war, a near constant trickle of supplies was required to keep the strategically vital island of Malta alive and in allied hands: mid-June 1942 saw two of these convoys simultaneously attempt to resupply the island from different directions. Operation Harpoon – a convoy from Gibraltar – was coordinated with Operation Vigorous from Alexandria. Both convoys were opposed by axis forces and on June 15th, in the air battle above Operation Harpoon which would become known as the Battle of Pantelleria, Visconti shot down a Bristol Blenheim. On August 13th, whilst on a two aircraft reconnaissance sortie, Visconti and his wingman were jumped by four RAF Spitfires. Visconti engaged and shot down two Spitfires, allowing the second M.C.202 to complete the sortie. He was awarded another Medaglie d'Argento for his skill and courage.

Visconti served in Greece before being promoted to Capitano and taking command of 76a Squadriglia as 54° Stormo was deployed in Tunisia in March 1943. In the brief weeks of fighting which led up to the axis surrender in May, Visconti was credited with two Spitfires and a P-40, as well as several other probable victories. Sharing a cramped cockpit with a fellow pilot, Visconti escaped the allied advance by flying to Sicily. Given his wealth of experience carrying out high speed, daylight reconnaissance flights over Malta, Visconti was given command of 310a Squadriglia Caccia Aerofotografica, a newly formed reconnaissance squadron equipped with modified Macchi C.205 Veltros (Greyhounds) which were based east of Rome.<ref name="Visconti WT forum Ace of the Month">An excerpt from [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/291927-profile-ace-of-the-month-january-maggiore-adriano-visconti/ Ace of the Month - January - Maggiore Adriano Visconti], written by Mark Barber, War Thunder Historical Consultant alias Wafu Vasco.</ref>

Visconti remains a controversial figure due to his political alignment with Mussolini's Italian Social Republic. 

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=mc-202_ec Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[C. 202 (Family)]]

== External links ==


* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/291927-profile-ace-of-the-month-january-maggiore-adriano-visconti/ [Profile<nowiki>]</nowiki> Ace of the Month - January - Maggiore Adriano Visconti] from the War Thunder official forum.

=== References ===
<references />

{{AirManufacturer Macchi}}
{{Italy fighters}}