War Thunder Wiki - User contributions [en]

VK 3002 (M)

2022-11-20T02:43:04Z

U129012650: /* Mobility */

{{Specs-Card
|code=germ_vk_3002m
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} German medium tank {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Drone Age"]].

The prototype model by Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg (MAN) for what would become the [[Panther D|Panther tank]], the {{PAGENAME}} features all the basic characteristics the Panther would receive, with a steep sloping front armour, high-penetrating 75 mm gun, and good mobility but not in turns. The VK 3002 (M) featured a 60 mm front plate and 50-80 mm turret front armour, which were the original armour plate thickness of the Panther prototype prior to its uparmoring into 80 mm and 100 mm respectively in the production vehicles. The grind on this tank is somewhat painful until you obtain the engine and transmission upgrade. The turret traverse is slow even after the horizontal upgrade. Tank has poor turning ability in close quarters.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

The armour layout is very similar to a standard Panther, though significantly weaker for the front plate (60 mm instead of 80 mm thick) and the turret (80 mm for the turret front and 50 mm for the mantlet instead of the 100 mm on the Panther A). It is adequate against low-velocity projectiles, but its armour should not be relied upon much, unless the distance between you and the target is large. Unlike the Panther A, angling on the VK 3002 is helpful, angling some 15-20 degrees will make the hull almost entirely immune to Soviet 85 mm cannons, which the tank will commonly face. The same procedure goes against most American cannons. Of course, if they aim at the turret, you'll end up penetrated, but the good thing is that this prototype shares the same good post-penetration survivability of a Panther, due to the driver and machine gunner being far from the turret, even the "fat" Soviet 85 mm APHE rounds will not usually knock it out from a turret penetration.

'''Armour type:''' 


{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || ___ mm || ___ mm ''Top'' ___ mm ''Bottom'' || ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm
|-
| Turret || ___ - ___ mm ''Turret front'' ___ mm ''Gun mantlet'' || ___ - ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm
|-
| Cupola || ___ mm || ___ mm || ___ mm || ___ mm
|-
|}

'''Notes:''' 


=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}

In a straight or nearly straight line the tank has decent mobility. However, the tank slows appreciably in turns and close quarter turning is painfully slow. Reverse speed is slow as well. Because close quarter mobility is not a strong point with this tank you should try to keep your distance from the enemy; otherwise enemy medium tanks and light tanks will flank you easily.

{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 1,007|rbMinHp= 575}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|KwK42 (75 mm)}}

''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.''

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[KwK42 (75 mm)|75 mm KwK42]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 79 || rowspan="2" | -8°/+20° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | N/A || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || rowspan="2" | _.__ || rowspan="2" | _.__ || rowspan="2" | _.__ || rowspan="2" | _.__
|-
! ''Realistic''
| __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! colspan="6" | Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
|-
! 10 m !! 100 m !! 500 m !! 1,000 m !! 1,500 m !! 2,000 m
|-
| PzGr 39/42 || APCBC || 192 || 188 || 173 || 156 || 140 || 126
|-
| Sprgr. 42 || HE || 11 || 11 || 11 || 11 || 11 || 11
|-
|}
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! colspan="10" | Shell details
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! rowspan="2" | Velocity (m/s)
! rowspan="2" | Projectile mass (kg)
! rowspan="2" | Fuse delay (m)
! rowspan="2" | Fuse sensitivity (mm)
! rowspan="2" | Explosive mass (TNT equivalent) (g)
! colspan="3" | Ricochet
|-
! 0% !! 50% !! 100%
|-
| PzGr 39/42 || APCBC || 935 || 6.8 || 1.2 || 14 || 28.9 || 48° || 63° || 71°
|-
| Sprgr. 42 || HE || 700 || 5.74 || 0 || 0.1 || 725 || 79° || 80° || 81°
|-
|}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! 6th rack empty
|-
| '''79''' || 72 ''(+7)'' || 66 ''(+13)'' || 60 ''(+19)'' || 56 ''(+23)'' || 52 ''(+27)'' || 42 ''(+37)''
|-
! 7th rack empty
! 8th rack empty
! 9th rack empty
! 10th rack empty
! 11th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
!
|-
|32 ''(+47)'' || 22 ''(+57)'' || 12 ''(+67)'' || 5 ''(+74)'' || 1 ''(+78)''|| No
!
|-
|}

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}

{{main|MG34 (7.92 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[MG34 (7.92 mm)|7.92 mm MG34]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Coaxial || 2,700 (150) || 900 || N/A || N/A
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* High speed on flat terrain and satisfactory agility
* Deadly cannon with 192 mm maximum penetration, can frontally penetrate any tank it can face (e.g. IS-2, M4A3E2, Churchill VII, etc)
* 75 mm cannon has flat trajectory and high shell velocity, beginner-friendly for long range engagements
* Frontal armour is immune against some lower-tier tanks like [[T-34 (Family)|T-34-76]], 75 mm [[M4]], [[M24 (Family)|M24]], etc.
* Has smoke grenades, helpful to conceal the tank

'''Cons:'''

* Has big and tall silhouette of the Panther family, very easy to get hit
* Frontal armour can still get penetrated by most common foes (e.g. [[T-34-85]], [[Avenger]], [[M36 GMC|M36]], [[M18 Hellcat (Family)|M18]], etc)
* Poor -4 km/h reverse speed can prevent the player from retreating into cover
* Side & rear armour are flat and thin (~40 mm), easily penetrable by SPAAs and light vehicles (e.g. [[ZSD63/PG87|ZSD63]], [[M24 (Family)|M24]], etc)
* Slow turning ability
* Slow turret traverse

== History ==

''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=germ_vk_3002m Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|VPhzn19gKiY|'''The Shooting Range #325''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:29 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[Panzer V Panther (Family)]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/7815-development-vk-30-02-m-the-cub-roars-en|[Devblog] VK 30.02 (M): The Cub Roars]]

{{TankManufacturer MAN AG}}
{{Germany medium tanks}}

VK 3002 (M)

2022-11-20T02:41:59Z

U129012650: /* Mobility */

{{Specs-Card
|code=germ_vk_3002m
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} German medium tank {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Drone Age"]].

The prototype model by Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg (MAN) for what would become the [[Panther D|Panther tank]], the {{PAGENAME}} features all the basic characteristics the Panther would receive, with a steep sloping front armour, high-penetrating 75 mm gun, and good mobility but not in turns. The VK 3002 (M) featured a 60 mm front plate and 50-80 mm turret front armour, which were the original armour plate thickness of the Panther prototype prior to its uparmoring into 80 mm and 100 mm respectively in the production vehicles. The grind on this tank is somewhat painful until you obtain the engine and transmission upgrade. The turret traverse is slow even after the horizontal upgrade. Tank has poor turning ability in close quarters.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

The armour layout is very similar to a standard Panther, though significantly weaker for the front plate (60 mm instead of 80 mm thick) and the turret (80 mm for the turret front and 50 mm for the mantlet instead of the 100 mm on the Panther A). It is adequate against low-velocity projectiles, but its armour should not be relied upon much, unless the distance between you and the target is large. Unlike the Panther A, angling on the VK 3002 is helpful, angling some 15-20 degrees will make the hull almost entirely immune to Soviet 85 mm cannons, which the tank will commonly face. The same procedure goes against most American cannons. Of course, if they aim at the turret, you'll end up penetrated, but the good thing is that this prototype shares the same good post-penetration survivability of a Panther, due to the driver and machine gunner being far from the turret, even the "fat" Soviet 85 mm APHE rounds will not usually knock it out from a turret penetration.

'''Armour type:''' 


{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || ___ mm || ___ mm ''Top'' ___ mm ''Bottom'' || ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm
|-
| Turret || ___ - ___ mm ''Turret front'' ___ mm ''Gun mantlet'' || ___ - ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm
|-
| Cupola || ___ mm || ___ mm || ___ mm || ___ mm
|-
|}

'''Notes:''' 


=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}

In a straight or nearly straight line the tank has decent mobility. However, the tank slows appreciably in turns and close quarter turning is painfully slow. Reverse speed is slow as well. Because close quarter mobility is not a strong point with this tank you should try to keep your distance from the enemy.

{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 1,007|rbMinHp= 575}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|KwK42 (75 mm)}}

''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.''

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[KwK42 (75 mm)|75 mm KwK42]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 79 || rowspan="2" | -8°/+20° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | N/A || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || rowspan="2" | _.__ || rowspan="2" | _.__ || rowspan="2" | _.__ || rowspan="2" | _.__
|-
! ''Realistic''
| __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! colspan="6" | Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
|-
! 10 m !! 100 m !! 500 m !! 1,000 m !! 1,500 m !! 2,000 m
|-
| PzGr 39/42 || APCBC || 192 || 188 || 173 || 156 || 140 || 126
|-
| Sprgr. 42 || HE || 11 || 11 || 11 || 11 || 11 || 11
|-
|}
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! colspan="10" | Shell details
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! rowspan="2" | Velocity (m/s)
! rowspan="2" | Projectile mass (kg)
! rowspan="2" | Fuse delay (m)
! rowspan="2" | Fuse sensitivity (mm)
! rowspan="2" | Explosive mass (TNT equivalent) (g)
! colspan="3" | Ricochet
|-
! 0% !! 50% !! 100%
|-
| PzGr 39/42 || APCBC || 935 || 6.8 || 1.2 || 14 || 28.9 || 48° || 63° || 71°
|-
| Sprgr. 42 || HE || 700 || 5.74 || 0 || 0.1 || 725 || 79° || 80° || 81°
|-
|}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! 6th rack empty
|-
| '''79''' || 72 ''(+7)'' || 66 ''(+13)'' || 60 ''(+19)'' || 56 ''(+23)'' || 52 ''(+27)'' || 42 ''(+37)''
|-
! 7th rack empty
! 8th rack empty
! 9th rack empty
! 10th rack empty
! 11th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
!
|-
|32 ''(+47)'' || 22 ''(+57)'' || 12 ''(+67)'' || 5 ''(+74)'' || 1 ''(+78)''|| No
!
|-
|}

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}

{{main|MG34 (7.92 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[MG34 (7.92 mm)|7.92 mm MG34]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Coaxial || 2,700 (150) || 900 || N/A || N/A
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* High speed on flat terrain and satisfactory agility
* Deadly cannon with 192 mm maximum penetration, can frontally penetrate any tank it can face (e.g. IS-2, M4A3E2, Churchill VII, etc)
* 75 mm cannon has flat trajectory and high shell velocity, beginner-friendly for long range engagements
* Frontal armour is immune against some lower-tier tanks like [[T-34 (Family)|T-34-76]], 75 mm [[M4]], [[M24 (Family)|M24]], etc.
* Has smoke grenades, helpful to conceal the tank

'''Cons:'''

* Has big and tall silhouette of the Panther family, very easy to get hit
* Frontal armour can still get penetrated by most common foes (e.g. [[T-34-85]], [[Avenger]], [[M36 GMC|M36]], [[M18 Hellcat (Family)|M18]], etc)
* Poor -4 km/h reverse speed can prevent the player from retreating into cover
* Side & rear armour are flat and thin (~40 mm), easily penetrable by SPAAs and light vehicles (e.g. [[ZSD63/PG87|ZSD63]], [[M24 (Family)|M24]], etc)
* Slow turning ability
* Slow turret traverse

== History ==

''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=germ_vk_3002m Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|VPhzn19gKiY|'''The Shooting Range #325''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:29 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[Panzer V Panther (Family)]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/7815-development-vk-30-02-m-the-cub-roars-en|[Devblog] VK 30.02 (M): The Cub Roars]]

{{TankManufacturer MAN AG}}
{{Germany medium tanks}}

VK 3002 (M)

2022-11-20T02:36:56Z

U129012650: /* Pros and cons */

{{Specs-Card
|code=germ_vk_3002m
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} German medium tank {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Drone Age"]].

The prototype model by Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg (MAN) for what would become the [[Panther D|Panther tank]], the {{PAGENAME}} features all the basic characteristics the Panther would receive, with a steep sloping front armour, high-penetrating 75 mm gun, and good mobility but not in turns. The VK 3002 (M) featured a 60 mm front plate and 50-80 mm turret front armour, which were the original armour plate thickness of the Panther prototype prior to its uparmoring into 80 mm and 100 mm respectively in the production vehicles. The grind on this tank is somewhat painful until you obtain the engine and transmission upgrade. The turret traverse is slow even after the horizontal upgrade. Tank has poor turning ability in close quarters.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

The armour layout is very similar to a standard Panther, though significantly weaker for the front plate (60 mm instead of 80 mm thick) and the turret (80 mm for the turret front and 50 mm for the mantlet instead of the 100 mm on the Panther A). It is adequate against low-velocity projectiles, but its armour should not be relied upon much, unless the distance between you and the target is large. Unlike the Panther A, angling on the VK 3002 is helpful, angling some 15-20 degrees will make the hull almost entirely immune to Soviet 85 mm cannons, which the tank will commonly face. The same procedure goes against most American cannons. Of course, if they aim at the turret, you'll end up penetrated, but the good thing is that this prototype shares the same good post-penetration survivability of a Panther, due to the driver and machine gunner being far from the turret, even the "fat" Soviet 85 mm APHE rounds will not usually knock it out from a turret penetration.

'''Armour type:''' 


{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || ___ mm || ___ mm ''Top'' ___ mm ''Bottom'' || ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm
|-
| Turret || ___ - ___ mm ''Turret front'' ___ mm ''Gun mantlet'' || ___ - ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm
|-
| Cupola || ___ mm || ___ mm || ___ mm || ___ mm
|-
|}

'''Notes:''' 


=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}

''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.''

{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 1,007|rbMinHp= 575}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|KwK42 (75 mm)}}

''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.''

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[KwK42 (75 mm)|75 mm KwK42]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 79 || rowspan="2" | -8°/+20° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | N/A || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || rowspan="2" | _.__ || rowspan="2" | _.__ || rowspan="2" | _.__ || rowspan="2" | _.__
|-
! ''Realistic''
| __._ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! colspan="6" | Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
|-
! 10 m !! 100 m !! 500 m !! 1,000 m !! 1,500 m !! 2,000 m
|-
| PzGr 39/42 || APCBC || 192 || 188 || 173 || 156 || 140 || 126
|-
| Sprgr. 42 || HE || 11 || 11 || 11 || 11 || 11 || 11
|-
|}
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! colspan="10" | Shell details
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! rowspan="2" | Velocity (m/s)
! rowspan="2" | Projectile mass (kg)
! rowspan="2" | Fuse delay (m)
! rowspan="2" | Fuse sensitivity (mm)
! rowspan="2" | Explosive mass (TNT equivalent) (g)
! colspan="3" | Ricochet
|-
! 0% !! 50% !! 100%
|-
| PzGr 39/42 || APCBC || 935 || 6.8 || 1.2 || 14 || 28.9 || 48° || 63° || 71°
|-
| Sprgr. 42 || HE || 700 || 5.74 || 0 || 0.1 || 725 || 79° || 80° || 81°
|-
|}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! 6th rack empty
|-
| '''79''' || 72 ''(+7)'' || 66 ''(+13)'' || 60 ''(+19)'' || 56 ''(+23)'' || 52 ''(+27)'' || 42 ''(+37)''
|-
! 7th rack empty
! 8th rack empty
! 9th rack empty
! 10th rack empty
! 11th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
!
|-
|32 ''(+47)'' || 22 ''(+57)'' || 12 ''(+67)'' || 5 ''(+74)'' || 1 ''(+78)''|| No
!
|-
|}

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}

{{main|MG34 (7.92 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[MG34 (7.92 mm)|7.92 mm MG34]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Coaxial || 2,700 (150) || 900 || N/A || N/A
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* High speed on flat terrain and satisfactory agility
* Deadly cannon with 192 mm maximum penetration, can frontally penetrate any tank it can face (e.g. IS-2, M4A3E2, Churchill VII, etc)
* 75 mm cannon has flat trajectory and high shell velocity, beginner-friendly for long range engagements
* Frontal armour is immune against some lower-tier tanks like [[T-34 (Family)|T-34-76]], 75 mm [[M4]], [[M24 (Family)|M24]], etc.
* Has smoke grenades, helpful to conceal the tank

'''Cons:'''

* Has big and tall silhouette of the Panther family, very easy to get hit
* Frontal armour can still get penetrated by most common foes (e.g. [[T-34-85]], [[Avenger]], [[M36 GMC|M36]], [[M18 Hellcat (Family)|M18]], etc)
* Poor -4 km/h reverse speed can prevent the player from retreating into cover
* Side & rear armour are flat and thin (~40 mm), easily penetrable by SPAAs and light vehicles (e.g. [[ZSD63/PG87|ZSD63]], [[M24 (Family)|M24]], etc)
* Slow turning ability
* Slow turret traverse

== History ==

''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=germ_vk_3002m Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|VPhzn19gKiY|'''The Shooting Range #325''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:29 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[Panzer V Panther (Family)]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/7815-development-vk-30-02-m-the-cub-roars-en|[Devblog] VK 30.02 (M): The Cub Roars]]

{{TankManufacturer MAN AG}}
{{Germany medium tanks}}

Valentine XI

2022-10-01T14:21:15Z

U129012650: /* Usage in battles */

{{About
| about = British medium tank '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = Valentine (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=uk_valentine_mk_11
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} British medium tank {{Battle-rating}}. It was released along with the initial British tree line in [[Update 1.55 "Royal Armour"]].

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}


Rank 1 guns will have difficulty penetrating this tank because their penetration is generally around 60 mm or below, and the {{PAGENAME}}'s frontal armour is 60-65 mm. Sometimes vehicles with a larger calibre gun (e.g. [[Na-To]], [[Marder III H]]) will make short work of this tank because of their high penetration for their battle rating via turret, flat plates or with overpressure. The hull side of the Valentine XI is also reduced to 50 mm comparing to the Valentine I's 60 mm, which worsens its protection against vehicles with penetration values between 50 and 60 mm, for example [[Chi-Ha (Family)|Chi-Ha]] and [[Pz.35(t)]]. This leads to the Valentine XI's armour only being effective against low rank tanks and some SPAAs when facing the enemy flat. The Valentine's crew is also low in number (3) and closely sat, reducing its survivability further more against all penetrating shots, especially those in the turret which can immediately kill 2/3 crew members. The Valentine XI does have access to 2 smoke grenade launchers (launched, so use them to conceal yourself if your armour seems to not hold up.

When facing the {{PAGENAME}} in battle if in possession of a gun unable to penetrate the {{PAGENAME}} from the front, flanking around to the sides or rear could also work. Once towards the {{PAGENAME}}'s rear, repeat this process by running circles around this vehicle and setting it on fire repeatedly until it burns down, especially since the turret is well armoured all around with 60 mm minimum.

'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour
* Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet)

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 60 mm ''Front plate'' 30 mm (66-68°) ''Front glacis'' 20 mm (72°), 60 mm (22°) ''Lower glacis'' || 50 mm (57-58°) ''Top'' 20 mm (65°), 60 mm ''Bottom'' || 17 mm || 20 mm
|-
| Turret || 65 mm (0-66°) ''Turret front'' 65 mm (0-62°) ''Gun mantlet'' || 60 mm || 65 mm (1-57°) || 20 mm
|-
|}
'''Note:'''

* Suspension wheels and bogies are 15 mm thick, while tracks are 20 mm thick.
* Belly armour is 20 mm thick.

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp=256|rbMinHp=146}}

The top speed of the {{PAGENAME}} is very limited at 25 km/h as it was designed as an infantry tank. This speed can only be reached after accelerating on flat, hard ground for quite a long while. Any hill or imperfect road condition will reduce the speed to around 20 km/h which is only comparable to heavy tanks like [[B1 bis|B1]]. Medium counterparts such as [[Pz.IV E]] and [[Strv m/41 S-I|Strv m/41]] will easily overtake you on any terrain. The speed drops significantly when turning on the move.

The hull traverse speed is awful especially when stock: the tank must move forward or backward a bit in order to really turn the hull. The reverse speed might be the slowest in game, at only -2 km/h (in line with British tanks). This of course will not let you get out of any danger quickly, and you will either be saved by your armour, small size, or you will be destroyed. Overall, the low speed, slow acceleration, poor traverse and reverse all make the Valentine XI bad at getting to places, repositioning, or escaping in time, greatly limiting its flexibility on the battlefield. Due to this it is recommended to use the {{PAGENAME}} for slow advances on an enemy location, or hull down where you do not need to rely on your mobility.

A slight remedy for the poor turret traverse is to use track brakes when turning from a stationary position. The Settings for the Short Brakes can be found in the settings via: (Controls > Ground vehicles > Short brakes).

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

Suggested research order:

# Tracks, Brake System, Filter, etc: A stock Valentine XI has poor mobility, so it might be a good idea to research the mobility modifications first.
# Parts and FPE: They allow you to stay in a fight longer by repairing damaged parts and putting out a fire.
# M61 APCBC: The Valentine XI will start encountering classic WW2 tanks like T-34 and M4 which are more spacious. An accurate AP with good velocity will be very useful to deal with them. If you intend to snipe with the {{PAGENAME}}, this shell can be useful to research first.
# Others

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}


The Valentine XI is armed with a 75 mm OQF Mk.V cannon. The cannon has an adequate reload speed of ~6 seconds which is on par with most guns of this calibre. This is slower than the Valentine I's 3-second reload as we've moved from a 40 mm cannon to a 75 mm one, so the player must get used to disabling if not destroying the target with a single shot, which will be easier as the gun is very accurate. The gun has a good gun depression of -12° which means the Valentine XI can fight in most uneven environments. The turret rotation of ~12°/s is average, allowing the Valentine XI to target opponents in time, but not really fast enough to quickly respond to agile flankers. This tank loses the horizontal shoulder stabiliser of the Valentine I, meaning that it must fully stop and wait for the gun to stop wobbling prior to shooting, which delays the shot and may or may not be fatal. This is moderately remedied by the good suspension, but requires the player to have better situational awareness in order to stabilise the cannon in time.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[OQF Mk.V (75 mm)|75 mm OQF Mk.V]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 45 || rowspan="2" | -8°/+17° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 15.2 || 21.1 || 25.6 || 28.3 || 30.1 || rowspan="2" | 6.50 || rowspan="2" | 5.75 || rowspan="2" | 5.30 || rowspan="2" | 5.00
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 9.5 || 11.2 || 13.6 || 15.0 || 16.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
The 75 mm OQF Mk.V behaves quite similarly to the American 75 mm M3 cannon, and they use the same ammo too.

* The stock M72 AP is a solid shot with average penetration (~90 mm) and velocity, being able to frontally penetrate most opponents. Its shrapnel can often knock out all crew in cramped tanks, for example [[T-80]], but not necessarily spacious ones like the [[M3 Lee]].

* The M61 is an APCBC with better penetration (~100 mm). This makes it the first choice ammo of the Valentine XI.

* The M48 HE is not as effective, as it lacks enough explosive filler to damage a tank with overpressure, and most players will also not have the time to switch ammo just to shoot at lightly armoured targets. However if they do, this HE can deal considerable shrapnel damage to unprotected vehicles like the [[GAZ-MM (72-K)|GAZ-MM 72-K]].

{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! colspan="6" | Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
|-
! 10 m !! 100 m !! 500 m !! 1,000 m !! 1,500 m !! 2,000 m
|-
| M72 shot || AP || 91 || 88 || 78 || 67 || 57 || 49
|-
| M61 shot || APCBC || 103 || 100 || 89 || 77 || 66 || 57
|-
| M48 shell || HE || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10
|-
|}
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! colspan="10" | Shell details
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! rowspan="2" | Velocity (m/s)
! rowspan="2" | Projectile Mass (kg)
! rowspan="2" | Fuse delay (m)
! rowspan="2" | Fuse sensitivity (mm)
! rowspan="2" | Explosive Mass (TNT equivalent) (g)
! colspan="3" | Ricochet
|-
! 0% !! 50% !! 100%
|-
| M72 shot || AP || 619 || 6.3 || N/A || N/A || N/A || 47° || 60° || 65°
|-
| M61 shot || APCBC || 618 || 6.53 || N/A || N/A || N/A || 48° || 63° || 71°
|-
| M48 shell || HE || 463 || 6.3 || 0 || 0.1 || 666 || 79° || 80° || 81°
|-
|}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="7" | Smoke shell characteristics
|-
! Ammunition
! Velocity (m/s)
! Projectile Mass (kg)
! Screen radius (m)
! Screen deploy time (s)
! Screen hold time (s)
! Explosive Mass (TNT equivalent) (g)
|-
| M89 || 259 || 3 || 13 || 5 || 20 || 50
|-
|}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''45''' || 37 ''(+8)'' || 28 ''(+17)'' || 19 ''(+26)'' || 10 ''(+35)'' || 1 ''(+44)'' || Yes
|-
|}

==== Optics ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
! colspan="3" | {{PAGENAME}} [[Optics]]
|-
! Which ones
! Default magnification
! Maximum magnification
|-
! Main Gun optics
| x1.85 || x3.5
|-
! Comparable optics
| colspan="2" | [[M4A1]]
|-
|}

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}

{{main|BESA (7.92 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[BESA (7.92 mm)|7.92 mm BESA]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Coaxial || 1,575 (225) || 600 || N/A || N/A
|-
|}

The small calibre of the BESA machine gun makes it largely ineffective against all armoured vehicles but the ones with an open compartment. It still can be used to ping targets as a rangefinding help or to mow down minor obstacles blocking your line of sight.

== Usage in battles ==


The Valentine - despite its historical role as an infantry tank - holds a fine balance between offensive firepower and defensive armour, leaving something to be desired for mobility. The Valentine is defended by a reasonably-effective armour setup, with a strong armour setup in the turret. But, the armour around the chassis is lacking. It's reasonably well-sloped, and angling can greatly increase its protective capabilities. The lower glacis is small, but particularly poorly protected. This means that a hull-down playstyle can be very effective in this vehicle, since it hides the tank's weak spots while only exposing the stronger turret armour. This is also more easily accomplished due to the vehicle's small size.

Such a passive playstyle is also helped by the tank's cannon. It does good damage, and has a reasonable reload rate. However, it does not have access to AP/T shells, so knock-outs by a single shot are rare, unless you know where to shoot. Again, this bodes poorly for close-up one on one combat. At range, on the other hand, the gun can focus on gradually destroying key components in enemy vehicles while retaining its good penetration values. Finally, the tank's small profile makes it even harder to hit at long range, and the weak spots in particular are very hard to hit accurately.

Of course, a long-range sniping playstyle isn't the end all and be all for this tank. It is certainly possible to fight closer to the enemy. When doing this, it is important to keep three things in mind. Firstly, since the gun usually won't kill enemy tanks in one shot, focus on disabling the enemy's gun, mobility or both before aiming for anything else. This will give the player time to destroy the enemy without worrying about return fire. Secondly, this vehicle only has three crew members; it is very likely that a penetrating shell will destroy the vehicle outright. Therefore, be cautious of exposing this tank in areas without cover, and when there are few teammates nearby. Lastly, like many British tanks, the Valentine has poor mobility. It is often too slow to flank around the enemy, and its slow top speed can leave it stuck in messy situations with no way out. The tank's reverse speed is especially lacking--be sure that the way is clear before advancing, or else you may find yourself coming under fire with no way out.

=== Enemies worth noting: ===

* [[ZiS-30]]: This is a deadly Soviet machine. Despite the small chassis, it carries a deadly 57mm cannon with a penetration of around 140 mm, which is more than enough to pierce the Valentine XI's armour at any distance. It is also quite narrow and short, so it is difficult to spot especially when camouflaged. Therefore, its great gun and unnoticeable size will usually be used to their advantage. If it's planning an ambush, unfortunately there's no way to detect it unless it shoots first and reveals its location. Once it has been spotted, aim for these two main areas: if it's facing you, shoot at the right side of its gun mantlet to deactivate its gunner; if you are outside its horizontal gun traverse range, target the frontal hull to disable its driver or transmission so it cannot turn the hull around to aim at you.
* [[T-34 (Family)|T-34]]: The Valentine will start seeing more advanced tanks like the T-34. The T-34 has superior speed and agility, well-sloped armour, and great firepower, resulting in it being able to control the fight and destroy the Valentine easily. But with an upgraded 75 mm gun, the Valentine XI is able to fight back. Aim at the T-34's unsloped areas on its turret front to knock out its turret crew. Do not shoot its hull unless you are facing the armour perpendicularly and up close (<500 m). If fighting in uneven terrain, make sure to utilise your great gun depression and hull down. The T-34 has bad gun depression and thus cannot perform as good in hilly environments.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Powerful 75 mm gun with fast reload, deadly and accurate shells
* Strong armour against low rank tanks like [[Pz.38(t) A|Pz.38(t)]], and against mid-rank rank [[Pz.III J|Pz.IIIs]] when angled
* Rear-mounted transmission and engine will not get destroyed easily, keeping the Valentine mobile
* Great -12° gun depression, useful on uneven maps
* Small size making weak spots difficult to hit

'''Cons:'''

* Small three man crew will get knocked out easily
* Quite slow, can't relocate quickly
* Loses the vertical stabiliser. Targeting will take longer compared to the [[Valentine I]]

== History ==

===Development===
The experiences taken from the development of the A9, A10 cruiser tanks and the A11 infantry tank prompted Vickers-Armstrong to begin development of a new tank. As a private venture, the design did not receive any designations from the British General Staff during its creation. The designing of the tank focused on the tank having the weight of a cruiser, but with the armour comparable to the infantry tanks. The basis was to have the vehicle with 60 mm of frontal armour and a 2-pounder gun in a two-man turret. To make it as light as possible, it was small and featured a cramped interior. The design used features taken from the A9 and A10 tanks so the design was easier to produce and cheaper to make. Vickers unveiled the design to War Office at February 10, 1938. While they initially viewed it unfavourably for its tiny two-man turret, they took it in April 1939 due to the growing tense situation in Europe with Nazi Germany, with the first order coming in May 1940 after the losses suffered by the British Expeditionary Forces in the Battle of France. The name '''Valentine''' was given to the tank sometime between its introduction to War Office and its adoption. The origin of the name is disputed, some say it was due to its introduction on February 14 in 1938 or 1940, other say it was the middle name of Sir John V. Carden, who helped design the Valentine's predecessors. Other sources say it is a name from the Vickers' company full name (Vickers-Armstrong Ltd Elswick & [Newcastle-upon] Tyne), and David Fletcher from Bovington Tank Museum say that "Valentine" was a code name used by the company for its development.

The Valentine was put into service as quickly as possible under the designation ''Tank, Infantry, Mk.III''. Vickers, Metropolitan-Cammell Carriage & Wagon, and Birmingham Railway Carriage & Wagon Company were all involved in the construction of this vehicle. During World War II, Canada was also contracted to build the Valentine to build up their own tank forces. The United Kingdom produced a total of 6,855 Valentines during the war between the three company while Canada built 1,420 Valentine tanks in their factories, for a total of 8,275 tanks produced, making the Valentine the most produced British tank in the entire war.

===Variants===
The Valentine is one of the most modified British tank in World War II, up to eleven variants were made during its entire production life.

#''[[Valentine Mk I|Mark I]]'': The first one, it was built with a rivet construction, a 135 hp petrol engine, and a 2-pounder, but was not sent to combat due to mechanical problems.
#''Mark II'': Uses a 131 hp diesel engine and has an auxiliary fuel tank added to the left hull.
#''Mark III'': Has a slightly thinner side armour (60 mm to 50 mm) and a modified turret design, giving room for a loader in the tank, freeing the commander to do his job.
#''Mark IV'' A modified Mk.II using an American 138 hp GMC diesel engine and an American-produced transmission, making the tank more reliable.
#''Mark V'': The same as Mk.IV, except using the Mk.III as the basis.
#''Mark VI'': A Canadian built Valentine, using Canadian and American parts and a GMC diesel engine, plus later switching the BESA machine gun into a Browning machine gun.
#''Mark VII'': A Canadian Mk.VI with a new radio set and a modified interior. Another Mk.VII named the ''Mark VIIA'' has jettisonable fuel tanks and new tracks, oil cooler, and headlights.
# ''Mark VIII'': Uses a British AEC diesel engine and a modified turret to use the 6-pounder. The modification eliminated the coaxial machine gun from the design.
#''[[Valentine Mk IX|Mark IX]]'': A Mk.V modified to take the 6-pounder as well, but with an armour reduction. Later version also had a stronger 165 hp GMC diesel engine installed.
#''Mark X'': Features another modified turret design using the 6-pounder, but made it able to use a coaxial machine gun again and still uses the 165 hp diesel engine. Uses a welded construction
#''[[Valentine Mk XI|Mark XI]]'': The Mk.X using the QF 75 mm gun instead of a 6-pounder, with the 210 hp diesel engine. However, these tanks only served as a command tank in the battlefield. Uses a welded construction

===Combat usage===
The Valentine mostly saw service in the North African Campaign, where the crew reported on it very favourably as a reliable and well-protected tank. The first unit who saw action with the Valentine was the 8th Royal Tank Regiment in Operation Crusader, where it was in the process of replacing the [[Matilda Mk II|Matilda II]]. The reliability is expressed when some Valentine were reported to have travelled a distance of 4,800 km by the time the British reached Tunisia. The Valentine tanks soon saw wide-spread use by mid-1941 when they were issued out widely to armoured regiments due to the lack of cruiser tanks available to fill in the ranks.

However, the biggest weakness of the Valentine tank is the lack of high-explosive rounds for the 2-pounder, a weakness suffered by every other tank using the 2-pounder. This and the 2-pounder's growing deficiency against tank armour was remedied by the usage of the 6-pounder on the Valentine after the Mark VIII version, and then the QF 75 mm gun. However, these larger guns were harder to mount on the small Valentine turret and made for a cramped interior, even removing the established loader's position made in an enlarge turret for the 2-pounder. By the time these larger guns were introduced for the tank, better tanks were being introduced, such as the [[Churchill Mk III|Churchill heavy tanks]] from Britain and the [[M4|M4 Shermans]] from the Americans. Despite the better tanks, the Valentine's low height is able to exploit small cover on the battlefield and take up a good hull-down position behind hills.

Some Valentines were sent to the Soviet Union as part of the Lend-Lease program, most of the Valentines came from Canada's production lines. The Valentines saw use from the time of Battle of Moscow in 1941 all the way until the end of the war, though the Valentines saw use more as a second-line tank due to its relative weakness. It was criticized for its slow speed and weak gun, but was liked for its small size, reliability, and armour protection and thus the Soviet Supreme Command continue asking for it and its production to continue until the end of the war.

By 1944, the Valentine is mostly taken out from the front-line services and replaced by the newer tanks. A few were retained for special purposes and command vehicles for [[Archer]] units, which is a tank destroyer based off the Valentine chassis. The tank continue to see use in the Pacific in limited numbers until May 1945 in the 3rd New Zealand Division, some had their armaments changed to the larger 3-inch howitzer to use it stronger high-explosive ammunition against the Japanese. New Zealand kept the normal and modified Valentines all the way until 1955. The last known combat usage of the Valentine was on Cyprus in early 1960s when a turret-less Valentine was used by the Greek militia, added with a make-shift armour and a machine gunner position with a Bren gun.

===Survivors===
About forty Valentines and vehicles based off the Valentine chassis exist in various conditions in the world. Valentines in running condition exist in the Bovington Tank Museum and in private hands in New Zealand and United Kingdom. The Valentines survivors can be seen in UK, Canada, Belgium, France, Russia, Australia, and New Zealand.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=uk_valentine_mk_11 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|AyHrqzC-3ng|'''{{PAGENAME}} Tank Review''' - ''NUSensei''|iTdclDWLd2w|'''{{PAGENAME}}, British Tier-2, Medium Tank''' - ''Angry Nerd Gaming''|xIrVVhdC9ac|'''Tank Chats #11 Valentine''' - ''The Tank Museum''}}

== See also ==
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''

* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

== External links ==


* [[wikipedia:Valentine_tank|[Wikipedia] Valentine tank]]
* [https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/Tank_Infantry_MkIII_Valentine.php <nowiki>[Tanks Encyclopedia]</nowiki> Valentine, Infantry Tank Mk.III]

{{Manufacturer Vickers-Armstrongs}}
{{Britain medium tanks}}

Sav m/43 (1944)

2022-09-10T04:19:22Z

U129012650: Changed CDK to Czechoslovakia. Corrected historical inaccuracy where article stated Germany occupied Poland in 1938. Changed to Czechoslovakia.

{{About
| about = Swedish tank destroyer '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = the later version
| link = Sav m/43 (1946)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=sw_sav_m43_1944
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_Sav_m43_(1944).jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Swedish tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.97 "Viking Fury"]].

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

The Sav m/43 has up to 50 mm of armour in front, which is capable of deflecting some guns commonly encountered but is still vulnerable to larger calibres. It has better frontal protection than the [[Ikv 72]], but is still rather lightly armoured from other angles. The engine deck is only 10 mm thick, and can be penetrated by aircraft heavy machine guns and cannons. The side armour is only 15 mm thick at most, and can also be penetrated quite easily by heavy machins guns and autocannon fire. Due to the cramped crew compartment and scattered ammunition within the compartment, any penetration by a shell is likely to cause critical damage to multiple modules and/or crew members.

'''Armour type:''' 


{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || ___ mm || ___ mm ''Top'' ___ mm ''Bottom'' || ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm
|-
| Turret || ___ - ___ mm ''Turret front'' ___ mm ''Gun mantlet'' || ___ - ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm || ___ - ___ mm
|-
| Cupola || ___ mm || ___ mm || ___ mm || ___ mm
|-
|}

'''Notes:''' 


=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 227|rbMinHp= 142}}

The Sav m/43 is based on the chassis of the [[Strv m/41 S-II|Strv m/41]] and thus has a similar level of mobility. It is considerably heavier, however, and thus correspondingly more sluggish. While the forward top speed is adequate, the reverse speed is quite poor, making it hard to retreat. It is also noticeably slower than the [[Ikv 72]].

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|kan m/02 (75 mm)}}

The Sav m/43 is armed with the 7,5 cm kan m/02, an older and weaker 75 mm field gun compared to that used in the [[Ikv 72]]. It has wider traverse arcs and higher maximum elevation, but less gun depression than the Ikv 72, though still quite good at -10 degrees. It starts off with the unremarkable '''slpprj m/40''' uncapped AP shot, which is adequate against most opposition it may encounter but tends to suffer ricochets against sloped armour. However, once upgraded, the gun may fire the '''slpgr m/39''' uncapped APHE shell and the '''slpprj m/40B''' APBC shot. The former round has a very lethal 260 g TNT filler but tends to ricochet more and has less penetration, while the latter has better penetration and ricochets less, and is thus more useful in uptiers. It is recommended to carry a mixture of both APHE and APBC unless the Sav m/43 is top tier, in which case the APHE alone is sufficient.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[kan m/02 (75 mm)|75 mm kan m/02]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 80 || rowspan="2" | -10°/+25° || rowspan="2" | ±15° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 7.0 || 9.8 || 11.8 || 13.1 || 13.9 || rowspan="2" | 7.67 || rowspan="2" | 6.79 || rowspan="2" | 6.25 || rowspan="2" | 5.90
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 4.8 || 5.6 || 6.8 || 7.5 || 8.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! colspan="6" | '''Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)'''
|-
! 10 m !! 100 m !! 500 m !! 1,000 m !! 1,500 m !! 2,000 m
|-
| slpprj m/40 || AP || 69 || 67 || 60 || 52 || 45 || 39
|-
| sgr m/22-38 || HE || 9 || 9 || 9 || 9 || 9 || 9
|-
| slpprj m/40B || APBC || 68 || 66 || 58 || 50 || 43 || 37
|-
| slpgr m/39 || APHE || 51 || 49 || 43 || 36 || 30 || 25
|-
|}
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! colspan="10" | Shell details
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
! rowspan="2" | Type of warhead
! rowspan="2" | Velocity (m/s)
! rowspan="2" | Projectile Mass (kg)
! rowspan="2" | Fuse delay (m)
! rowspan="2" | Fuse sensitivity (mm)
! rowspan="2" | Explosive Mass (TNT equivalent) (g)
! colspan="3" | Ricochet
|-
! 0% !! 50% !! 100%
|-
| slpprj m/40 || AP || 501 || 6.6 || N/A || N/A || N/A || 47° || 60° || 65°
|-
| sgr m/22-38 || HE || 496 || 6.6 || 0 || 0.1 || 550 || 79° || 80° || 81°
|-
| slpprj m/40B || APBC || 505 || 6.3 || N/A || N/A || N/A || 48° || 63° || 71°
|-
| slpgr m/39 || APHE || 496 || 6.5 || 1.2 || 9 || 260 || 47° || 60° || 65°
|-
|}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
! colspan="7" | Smoke shell characteristics
|-
! Ammunition
! Velocity (m/s)
! Projectile Mass (kg)
! Screen radius (m)
! Screen deploy time (s)
! Screen hold time (s)
! Explosive Mass (TNT equivalent) (g)
|-
| rökgr m/22 || 496 || 6.6 || 13 || 5 || 20 || 8
|-
|}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! 6th rack empty
! 7th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''80''' || 46 ''(+34)'' || 37 ''(+43)'' || 25 ''(+55)'' || 22 ''(+58)'' || 19 ''(+61)'' || 8 ''(+72)'' ||1 ''(+79)''|| No
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==


The Sav m/43 (1944) is a more forgiving alternative to the [[Ikv 72]]. Like the Ikv 72, it performs best in a hull-down position, as it can use the depression to present a steeper angle on the frontal armour to increase its effective thickness. It has a relatively weak armour from the sides, top and rear, even if less vulnerable than the Ikv 72. It is best to play this vehicle cautiously since it has a slower manoeuvrability than the Ikv 72.

The armour on its own is adequate enough to survive most hits to the frontal armour at this battle rating, but leaving its side and rear exposed to enemies will make a quick work of it. Hence, it's a good support role vehicle to help allied vehicles by either finishing the enemies off or drawing attention to itself with the frontal armour so other allied vehicles avoid being targeted. Against heavier armoured vehicles or just vehicles with better guns such as [[M3 Lee]] and [[B1 ter]], it's better to avoid direct confrontation and not fight on equal terms.

While the gun is quite adequate against most enemies at its battle rating, it can be seen obsolete in uptiers where it will face opponents with considerably more armour. The gun might not be efficient in an uptier but it can still do damage if resorting to ambushing and shooting from hills, using the angled armour and the depression of the gun to its advantage. It can lock down areas and buy time for allied tanks to come to its aid doing flanking manoeuvres. The Sav m/43 (1944) can also move around to flank heavier armoured vehicles, getting to their side armour will give it a chance to penetrate and the ability to disable the better protected tanks when frontal engagement is not a viable option.

'''Enemies worth noting:'''

[[M4A3 (105)]] - The M4A3 (1059 is a dangerous vehicle for the SAV m/43 (1944) to encounter, angled armour making the shells of the [[Kan m/02 (75 mm)|Kan m/02]] next to unusable against its angled frontal armour. It also got a gun with a HEAT shell that will make quick work of the Sav's armour and most likely detonate the ammunition or knock out the crew if it gets a good shot on the Sav. Best to stay away or ambush it where it shows off its less armoured and flat side armour.

[[B1 ter]] - The B1 Ter has an armour thick enough that it can ignore the penetration capability of the SAV m/43's rounds, lacking in firepower compared to vehicles like [[M4A3 (105)]] or [[M3 Lee]], it can still do quite the damage with the 47 mm gun in the turret. Best way to eliminate this type of target is to either hit the less armoured turret or get a hit in the flat armoured rear.

[[M3 Lee]] - Similar to M4A3 (105), the M3 Lee's armour can prove to be quite resilient against the SAV m/43 (1944)'s shells forcing it to avoid the direct confrontation with the M3 Lee. The Lee is not just a well armoured medium tank, it also got a 75 mm anti-tank gun and a 37 mm gun in a turret which can prove to be efficient against the SAV m/43's armour. Making it a lethal opponent to face aswel, where the best chance is to catch one off guard on the side or rear and attack the weaker side or rear armour.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Decent frontal armour in a downtier
* Lethal APHE round, able to frontally penetrate and knock out almost any tank it faces with a single shot
* Wide gun traverse arc and good gun depression allows turret to acquire target without requiring constant adjustment of the hull
* Decent top speed
* Has smoke shells which can "lock down" an enemy area by shooting smoke shells there
* Adequate reload speed
* Has small silhouette

'''Cons:'''

* Low penetration works poorly against heavy targets such as [[M4A3 (105)]], [[B1 ter]]
* Very thin side, rear, and roof armour
* Very slow shell velocity, leading and shooting fast tanks (e.g. [[M22]], [[BT-5]]) is hard
* Curved shell trajectory demands precise aiming at long range
* Shells have weak penetration past 500 m
* Mediocre mobility and poor reverse speed

== History ==


In March of 1940, Sweden ordered about 90 TNH tanks (known as the Panzer 38(t) in German service) from Czechoslovakia, but Germany, which had occupied Czechoslovakia in 1938, confiscated the tanks for its own use as the Panzer 38(t) Ausf. S. Sweden still needed the light tanks, and after negotiations the Swedish manufacturer Scania-Vabis was allowed to produce them under license, and compensation for the lost tanks. Sweden ordered 116 Strv M/41 SI in June, 1941, and in June of 1942 Sweden ordered 122 Strv M/41 SII. The last 18 Strv M/41 SII were built as the Sav M/43 in 1944. Another 18 Sav M/43 were purpose-built afterwards. The Sav M/43 was a casemate assault gun made by removing the turret of the Strv M/41, and adding a casemate superstructure, initially housing a 75 mm gun. The 75 mm gun was replaced by a 105 mm M/44 Bofors cannon. The Sav M/43 served in artillery units until 1951, when they were given to armoured units instead. They served until 1973.

=== [[wt:en/news/6595-development-stormartillerivagn-m-43-en|Devblog]] ===
In 1942, Sweden began developing a new SPG built on a modified chassis from the Czech LT vz.38, better known as the Pz.38(t) in the German army. This new SPG was supposed to be equipped with the 75 mm L/31 cannon that was already in production. By autumn of 1942, a wooden model of the planned vehicle had been created and, after a number of improvements, the project advanced to manufacturing prototypes. Exactly one year later, in October of 1943, testing began. The SPG passed with flying colours and hit assembly lines under the designation Sav m/43 (short for "Stormartillerivagn", Swedish for "assault artillery carriage"). A little later, a version with a 105 mm gun came out, and, by the end of 1946, all m/43 SPGs had been re-equipped with this new cannon. The Swedish army had used this SPG until the early 70s. From the moment it entered military service until the end of the Second World War in Europe, the Sav m/43 vehicles were grouped by the Norwegian border and then assigned to infantry units as fire-support vehicles when the army was reorganised.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=sw_sav_m43_1944 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Images
<gallery mode="packed" heights="150">
File:Sav m 43 1944 WTWallpaper 01.jpg
File:Sav m 43 1944 WTWallpaper 02.jpg
File:Sav m 43 1944 WTWallpaper 03.jpg
</gallery>

== See also ==

{{main|LT-38 (Family)}}

;Vehicles equipped with the same chassis

* [[Strv m/41 S-I]]
* [[Strv m/41 S-II]]

;Related development

* [[Spj fm/43-44]]
* [[Sav m/43 (1946)]]
* [[Pvkv II]]
* [[Pbv 301]]

;Other vehicles of similar configuration and role

* [[StuG III A]]
* [[SU-76M]]
* [[M8 HMC (China)|M8 HMC]]
* [[75/18 M41]]
* [[SAu 40]]

== External links ==


=== References ===

;Bibliography

* Stormartillerivagn m/43. (2020, March 6). In ''Wikipedia''. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stormartillerivagn_m/43&oldid=944240648
* Moore, Craig. (2016, September 9). Sormartillerivagn m/43. Tank Encyclopedia. https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/sweden/stormartillerivagn-m43-105mm-spg.php

{{TankManufacturer Scania}}
{{Sweden tank destroyers}}