War Thunder Wiki - User contributions [en]

B-25J-30 (USSR)

2023-05-30T14:53:18Z

U108168820:

{{About
| about = premium bomber '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = B-25 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=b_25j_30_vvs_ussr
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet bomber {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.35]].

The B-25J-30 is a lend-lease vehicle for the Soviets and is essentially identical in-game to the USAAF [[B-25J-20]]. The minor differences are the reinforced steel pilot seats and extra armour for the dorsal gunner.

The design of the B-25 was the result of years of work and failed bids to win contracts with the United States Army Air Corps (USAAC). Initially designed to meet requirements for a payload of 1,200 lb (540 kg), a range of 1,200 mi (1,900 km) and flying at speeds faster than 200 mph (320 km/h), prototypes were built, tested and refined. Although the original XB-21 and NA-40 never materialized into a production aircraft, requirements from the USAAC came out in March of 1939 for a medium bomber carrying a payload of 2,400 lb (1,100 kg) over 1,200 mi (1,900 km) at speeds around 300 mph (480 km/h), North American modified their design of NA-40 and developed the NA-62 which went into prototype testing as the YB-25 and then ordered into production as the B-25.

The B-25 turned out to be the archetype of the medium bomber, carrying upwards of 3,000 lb (1,361 kg) of bombs and could fly at speeds up to 340 mph (547 km/h). This twin-engine bomber was fast, it could carry a large payload for its size and had several defensive turrets and gunner stations at which it could defend itself from almost any angle. To increase its versatility, several models had forward-facing fixed machine guns fitted into the nose and the cheeks of the aircraft. Later models opted to removed the glazed nose and bombardier/nose-gunner station and outfit more machine guns and even a 75 mm autocannon for strafing ground targets and especially ships. This medium bomber at times acted more like a heavy attacker opting for low-level flights which would skim treetops and the ocean to sneak up on unwary targets. It was not uncommon for B-25s to fly just above the mast/smokestack height of enemy ships when attacking.

As later models moved from the dedicated bomber position and morphed into more of an attacker role, bomb payloads were reduced to allow for more armour around the cockpit and more offensive weapons and ammunition to fill the attacker mode it took on, especially under the command of U.S. Marine Corps squadrons. With more than 10,000 B-25 aircraft variants built, they saw action in all theatres of war and were even subject to part of the lend-lease program which China and the USSR benefitted from. So versatile was this aircraft that a flight of them were specifically outfitted and their crews trained to take off from an aircraft carrier and bomb mainland Japan in a daring raid. Impressive for an aircraft not meant to take off from an aircraft carrier.

The B-25 is a fantastic bomber, attacker or both and will suit many different pilots and their different approaches to the battlefields found in War Thunder. The tail gunner has been known to set many fighters alight with their dual .50 calibre machine guns and help to prolong the life of this bomber to allow the pilot to make it to their target whether it is to bomb it or strafe it.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 3,049 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 423 || 410 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 32.3 || 33.6 || 5.4 || 5.4 || rowspan="2" | 750
|-
! Upgraded
| 468 || 444 || 29.8 || 31.0 || 10.5 || 7.7
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear
|-
| ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || X 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| 591  || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || 382 || 320 || 293 || ~5 || ~2
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 270 || < 320 || < 350 || > 320
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


* 10 mm steel - front, sides & rear of the cockpit
* 10 mm steel - the rim of pilot seats
* 8 mm steel - below nose gunner
* 8 mm steel - pilot seats
* 9.5 mm - bulkhead after of dorsal turret
* 6.35 mm steel - aft of waist gunners
* 9.5 mm steel - tail turret
* 38 mm Bulletproof glass - tail turret

Rugged, sturdy, though, the B-25 is all of those things. Featuring crew armour protection that outclasses the [[B-17G-60-VE|B-17 ''Flying Fortress'']] in a handier, smaller design, the B-25J is a tough nut to crack and even harder to devoid of the crew. Calibres above 20 mm are a must for a quick kill, otherwise, the B-25 will repay in kind. Gunner positions throughout the bomber effectively cover the front, sides, top and rear of the aircraft with just the underbelly left relatively unprotected to fighters rising in a power climb. The rear gunner with his dual .50 calibre machine guns is especially devastating when they are trained on a tailing enemy fighter.

The two Wright R-2600 air-cooled radial engines are themself hard to destroy and with dropped payload, the B-25J can keep flying on just a single damaged engine, denying under armed fighters the ability to lethally cripple it. Yet this aircraft does have an Achilles heel, its fuel tanks. While present in all planes, the armour, crew and bomb bay take up all the necessary space within the fuselage, while leaving only space in the wings to house the fuel tanks. A common downfall of this aircraft is the structural failure of the wing spar due to wing fires of the fuel tanks.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|M2 Browning (12.7 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 2 x 12.7 mm Browning M2 machine guns, nose-mounted (400 rpg = 800 total)
* 4 x 12.7 mm Browning M2 machine guns, cheek-mounted (400 rpg = 1,600 total)

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|FAB-50sv (50 kg)|FAB-100sv (100 kg)|FAB-250sv (250 kg)|FAB-500sv (500 kg)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* 12 x 50 kg FAB-50sv bombs (600 kg total)
* 8 x 100 kg FAB-100sv bombs (800 kg total)
* 4 x 100 kg FAB-100sv bombs + 8 x 50 kg FAB-50sv bombs (800 kg total)
* 2 x 250 kg FAB-250sv bombs + 8 x 50 kg FAB-50sv bombs (900 kg total)
* 4 x 250 kg FAB-250sv bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 1 x 500 kg FAB-500sv bomb + 10 x 50 kg FAB-50sv bombs (1,000 kg total)
* 3 x 500 kg FAB-500sv bombs (1,500 kg total)

=== Defensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Defensive}}

{{main|M2 Browning (12.7 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is defended by:

* 1 x 12.7 mm M2 Browning machine gun, nose turret (300 rpg)
* 2 x 12.7 mm M2 Browning machine guns, dorsal turret (400 rpg = 800 total)
* 1 x 12.7 mm M2 Browning machine gun, 2 x beam turrets (250 rpg)
* 2 x 12.7 mm M2 Browning machine guns, tail turret (600 rpg = 1,200 total)

== Usage in battles ==


'''Realistic''':

In RB battles, the most efficient yet dangerous way of earning RP with the B-25 is to first dive-bomb a base at low altitude, then strafe soft ground targets or fend off incoming fighters.

For such playstyle, it is best to choose the 3 x 500 kg bombs loadout to destroy a base in one go. Universal belt is great for the offensive and defensive guns, and their convergence is up to you. At the start of the match, choose the nearest base from you and '''tag it on the map''', this way other bombers are not likely to fight for that base. Now, with WEP, directly dive at the front edge of the base. The B-25 has a reasonably good dive acceleration and can soon dive at more than 500 km/h. However, keep watching the air speed as the B-25 will experience severe lock-up at more than 500 km/h and will rip at 570 km/h. The fastest way to get to the base is to maintain air speed around 550 km/h. While on your way, you can have a look at what ground targets are near that base. Make sure your altitude is well below 500 m when approaching the base. Flying this low can prevent the opponents from attacking from below, which minimises the lack of belly gunners of the B-25. Also, most fighters tend to chase after low-flying bombers, so if you successfully lured some enemies into chasing you, you have already done a great job for the friendly fighters, as they now have altitude advantage over the ones at your tail.

Once the base is near, level out and aim at it with the bombsight. Drop all 3 bombs at the center of the base, and immediately turn towards the nearest ground targets. Your priority should be soft targets like trucks, AA vehicles and artilleries, since they will be destroyed with a short burst of your 6x .50 cals. If you are lucky and found a long convoy of trucks, you will get plenty of RP out of it.

While strafing, you must constantly look around, above and on the minimap for any potential threats. If an enemy fighter dives on you, drop your altitude to tree-top level at once, this way the fighter is forced to face your tail guns and turrets. Use the gunner view to fire at it, but remember, leading the target correctly requires lots of practice. For the enemy fighter, there will always be 2-5 .50 cals spraying bullets at it, which is quite deadly for Japanese fighters like the A6M2/M3. Sometimes it only requires a single bullet to set those fragile fighters on fire, or to damage their large radial engines or coolers. However, the B-25 is equally likely to be set aflame or lose its tail very quickly. Once on fire there is nothing you can do except keep spraying bullets until you are destroyed.

'''Enemies worth noting:'''

* [[Fw 190 A-5]]: The Fw 190 is armed with 4 x 20 mm cannons and 2 x 7.92 mm MGs, which are very destructive and have plenty of ammo, allowing them to easily critically damage the B-25 in a burst. The plane itself is fairly well armoured, especially the thick, sloped windscreen protecting the pilot. Therefore the deadly firepower and good protection make the Fw 190 a great threat to the B-25. When a Fw 190 is tailing the B-25, concentrate your fire on its big radial engine for better chance of crippling it. If you can, try to fly towards the higher-flying teammates to lure the Fw 190 into an altitude disadvantage.

* [[A6M2]] / [[A6M3|M3]]: These fighters are well known for their manoeuvrability and climb rate. However when they are at your 6, their manoeuvrability is no longer an advantage as they have to constantly chase after you, making themselves a great target. The Zeros are poorly protected with a high chance of being set on fire, and their 20 mm cannons lack the damage to effectively hurt the B-25. When dealing with them, again, aim at their engine or even the unprotected cockpit for a pilot snipe.

=== Manual Engine Control ===
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="7" | MEC elements
|-
! rowspan="2" | Mixer
! rowspan="2" | Pitch
! colspan="3" | Radiator
! rowspan="2" | Supercharger
! rowspan="2" | Turbocharger
|-
! Oil !! Water !! Type
|-
| Controllable || Controllable Not auto controlled || Not controllable Not auto controlled || Controllable Auto control available || Separate || Controllable 2 gears || Not controllable
|-
|}

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Very effective front-facing armament of 6 x 12.7 mm machine for aerial attack or ground strafing
* Durable airframe which can take a beating
* Heavy defensive armament on both left and rights sides and especially the tail gunner
* Can provide initial cover for other bombers until fighters reach their altitude
* Can be used as a tactical bomber, strategic bomber or as an attacker
* Able to land on an aircraft carrier
* Good dive speed

'''Cons:'''

* The belly of the aircraft lacks any defence
* Poor climb rate and energy retention
* Less effective as a dogfighter due to its size, however, can perform Boom & Zoom without too much manoeuvring
* Less effective as a high-altitude bomber (accuracy), better for mid to low altitude bombing
* The elevator is easily shot off, the plane can still be controlled using flaps and adjusting engine power

== History ==


{{break}}
{{Navigation-Start|{{Annotation|Archive of the in-game description|An archive of the historical description of the vehicle that was presented in-game prior to Update 1.55 'Royal Armour'}}|expand=true}}
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}
North American B-25J-30 Mitchell twin-engine medium bomber/ground-attack aircraft

New armored pilot seats appeared in the B-25J-25 series. Also, the wing leading edge was reinforced. Beginning with machine No. 44-30111, additional armor was fitted to the upper fuselage to prevent the turret-mounted machine guns from inadvertently hitting the bomber.

From aircraft No. 44-30309 on, the Americans provided for the mounting of chemical spray tanks, similar to the Soviet VAPs, on external bomb racks.

The B-25J-30 had T-64 launchers for unguided HVAR missiles installed under the wing panels. The mechanical bomb hoist was replaced with an electric one. The gunsights were upgraded again, and a new high-precision Norden N-9B bombsight was mounted on the aircraft, beginning with No. 44-86793.

Provisions were made for carrying new guided glide bombs from plane No. 44-86692 on. The work to equip the aircraft with such bombs had begun back in 1943. GT-1 glide bombs were actually torpedoes with wings and tail fins. In July 1945, they were used to strike ships at the Japanese ports of Sasebo and Nagasaki. In Sasebo, they managed to damage and set fire to two vessels. The third bomb did not hit its target but dropped on the harbour works.

Although the B-25 had a good flight range, sometimes it was not sufficient, given the size of the Pacific Ocean Theatre. Fuel quantity had to be increased, so B-25s were modified on front-line airfields. Various additional tanks, removed from aircraft of other types, were mounted in the fuselage near the radio set.

A total of 4,318 B-25J aircraft were delivered. 72 more bombers were practically ready when their production was discontinued. Some of those machines were nevertheless completed later. 800 B-25Js of the total number were assembled directly as the ground-attack aircraft version. In addition, North American produced so-called conversion kits, which allowed the aircraft to be quickly converted on a front-line airfield. Thus, the real number of machines flying as the ground-attack aircraft version significantly exceeded the original eight hundred.
{{Navigation-End}}

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=b_25j_30_vvs_ussr Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[B-25 (Family)]]

;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era

* Douglas [[A-26 (Family)|A-26 ''Invader'']]
* De Havilland [[Mosquito (Family)|Mosquito]]
* Mitsubishi [[Ki-67-I_Ko|Ki-61 ''Hiyrū'']]
* Nakajima [[Ki-49 (Family)|Ki-49 ''Donryu'']]

== External links ==


* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/86473-north-american-b-25j-30-mitchell/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]
* vvsairwar.com website - [https://vvsairwar.com/2016/09/13/it-was-a-beautiful-aircraft-the-soviet-b-25s/ It was a beautiful aircraft - The Soviet B-25s]
* lend-lease.net website - [https://lend-lease.net/articles-en/the-b-25-mitchell-in-the-ussr/ The B-25 Mitchell in the USSR]
* lend-lease.net website - [https://lend-lease.net/articles-en/b-25-mitchel-in-14-gvbad/ The B-25 Mitchell in 14 GVBAD]

{{AirManufacturer NAA}}
{{USSR bombers}}
{{USSR premium aircraft}}

Ba.65 (K.14) L

2023-01-24T19:24:42Z

U108168820: /* Pros and cons */

{{Specs-Card
|code=ba_65_k14_l
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Italian strike aircraft {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.69 "Regia Aeronautica"]].

The Breda Ba.65 (K.14) L does its job well thanks to a high ammo count and the fact that it receives an air spawn in Realistic Battles (which makes up for the slow top speed). In Realistic, most of the time you will be flying against Soviet planes or on some maps, Americans and British. Your tail gunner, which is armed with a 7.7 mm machine gun, will do medium to high amounts of damage if armed with Universal belts. The 7.7 mm machine gun is more dangerous the closer the enemy gets. If you get a chance at a head-on, go for it because you will most likely win- the plane has very strong frontal armament for its tier.

The Ba.65 is able to utilize its flaps to gain combat advantages, which is an uncommon feature in low BR planes. You can use them to slow down during a strafing run to put more rounds into the target. Also, if you've mapped different keys for small calibre and large calibre guns, the 7.7 mm machine guns will be recognized as small calibre and the 12.7 mm machine guns will be recognized as large calibre, and the guns will be able to fire separately. As for payload options, the 4 x 50 kg bombs are much more useful against the light ground targets you will see at this battle rating.

== General info ==
=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 5,600 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 477 || 467 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 29.9 || 30.9 || 5.9 || 5.7 || rowspan="2" | 730
|-
! Upgraded
| 501 || 490 || 28.2 || 29.0 || 9.4 || 7.6
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || X || X 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 469 || 320 || ~12 || ~6
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 300 || < 340 || < 340 || > 210
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}


;Armour plates

* The {{PAGENAME}} does not sport any armour plates or armoured glass.

;Critical components

* All critical components are located on the central airframe:
** The engine and the oil cooling system are at the front of the plane.
** Two self-sealing fuel tanks are located behind the pilot seat and one behind the rear gunner.
** Traction cables of control surfaces are on the right side in the tail section.
* Except for the armament and traction cables of control surfaces, there are no critical modules in the wings.
* The wings can take a decent amount of damage from MGs, except the tip that is easily blown off.
* However, 20 mm rounds will severe any wing clean.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|Breda-SAFAT (12.7 mm)|Breda-SAFAT (7.7 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 2 x 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns, wing-mounted (350 rpg = 700 total)
* 2 x 7.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns, wing-mounted (500 rpg = 1,000 total)

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|GP 50 (50 kg)|GP 100T (100 kg)|SAP 100M (100 kg)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 4 x 50 kg GP 50 bombs (200 kg total)
* 2 x 100 kg GP 100T bombs (200 kg total)
* 4 x 100 kg SAP 100M bombs (400 kg total)

=== Defensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Defensive}}

{{main|Breda-SAFAT (7.7 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is defended by:

* 1 x 7.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine gun, dorsal turret (500 rpg)

== Usage in battles ==


Although the Ba.65 is an attacker, it can be used in an anti-fighter role with much success. The plane receives an air-spawn which invariably allows it a significant altitude advantage over enemy fighters. Boom & Zoom tactics, therefore, become very effective against slow, climbing, enemies. The Ba.65 has very good armament for its battle rating, and they will be enough to destroy any enemy fighter with one precise diving attack.

Otherwise, the Ba.65 can also be used effectively in the intended ground attack role. Use its airspawn to gain speed in a dive and reach the target before enemy fighters arrive. Then, the plane's bomb load are able to take out armoured ground targets and its devastating frontal armament can kill many more lightly and non-armoured targets.

=== Manual Engine Control ===
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="7" | MEC elements
|-
! rowspan="2" | Mixer
! rowspan="2" | Pitch
! colspan="3" | Radiator
! rowspan="2" | Supercharger
! rowspan="2" | Turbocharger
|-
! Oil !! Water !! Type
|-
| Controllable || Not controllable Not auto controlled || Controllable Not auto controlled || Not controllable Not auto controlled || Separate || Not controllable 1 gear || Not controllable
|-
|}

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Powerful armament for its low rank position. consisting of 2 x 7.7 mm and 2 x 12.7 mm MGs; capable of downing low-rank planes in seconds
* Both MGs have a lot of incendiary rounds; deadly against poorly armoured, fabric-covered low-BR planes
* Protected from some rear threats by the turret
* Decent energy retention
* Gets an airspawn
* 12.7 mm HMGs can take out light tanks from the rear and top, if aimed properly
* The payload is effective against ground targets at this battle rating

'''Cons:'''

* Slow top speed and acceleration
* Inferior turn rate compared to most monoplanes
* Low survivability
** Catches fire easily
** No armour or pilot protection
** Relatively ineffective defensive armament
* Poor payload, can only carry up to 400 kg

== History ==

The Breda Ba.65 Nibbio (Kite) is an Italian interwar, twin seater combat aircraft that was designed with versatility in mind. The aircraft was intended to perform a multitude of combat tasks ranging from conventional ground attack to intercepting hostile aircraft. However, due to many shortcomings of the Ba.65, it was later confined to pure ground support roles, and at the end of the war, converted to a trainer aircraft. Contrary to the positive first impressions that the aircraft left on its maiden flight in 1935, is the relative unpopularity among its crew due to the difficulties they faced while operating it.

Nevertheless, over 200 Ba.65 aircraft were built between 1935 and 1939. The aircraft fought on several theatres of war such as in Spain and North Africa, whilst some versions were also exported to Chile and Iraq.

''- From the [[wt:en/news/4714-development-breda-ba-65-k14-the-sharp-eyed-hawk-en|Devblog]]''

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=ba_65_k14_l Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|Ne2Z_Tni-2U|'''(Arcade): {{PAGENAME}} - One of a Kind''' - ''tx141T''|M69_aNWR1HQ|'''Realistic: {{PAGENAME}}''' - ''Jengar''}}

== See also ==


;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era

* [[BB-1]]
* [[Wirraway (Great Britain)]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/news/4714-development-breda-ba-65-k14-the-sharp-eyed-hawk-en|[Devblog] Breda Ba.65 K14: The Sharp-eyed Hawk]]
* [[wikipedia:Breda_Ba.65|[Wikipedia] Breda Ba.65]]
* [https://comandosupremo.com/breda-ba65/ <nowiki>[Comando Supremo]</nowiki> Breda Ba.65 Fighter-Bomber Aircraft]

{{AirManufacturer Breda}}
{{Italy strike aircraft}}

MiG-17AS

2022-12-09T19:27:36Z

U108168820: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = gift Soviet jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = MiG-17 (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=mig-17_cuba
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a premium gift rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]]. It was removed from the Gaijin store after the [[wt:en/news/7674-shop-may-sale-en|2022 May sale]] and is currently unobtainable in-game.

As a {{PAGENAME}} flying in Cuban colors, the plane represents a fighter-bomber version of the [[MiG-17]] series that was exported to Cuba in 1964.

== General info ==
[[File:MiG-17 Cockpit (2022).png|thumb|The '''MiG-17AS'''' instrument panel.]]

=== Flight performance ===
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}


The MiG-17AS is powered by the Klimov VK-1 jet engine, the same as the engine found on the [[MiG-17]]. This engine performs well at higher altitudes, and affords this vehicle much better high-altitude flight characteristics than its American counterpart, the [[F-86 (Family)|F-86]]. This also means that the MiG-17 performs much better in vertical manoeuvres than many other aircraft. The engine also gives this vehicle very good energy retention and a high climb rate. At high speeds (>900 km/h), the aircraft experiences compression and loses roll and pitch authority.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
! colspan="2" | Max Speed (km/h at 2,000 m)
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude (metres)
! colspan="2" | Turn time (seconds)
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb (metres/second)
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run (metres)
|-
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
|-
! Stock
| 1,097 || 1,061 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 22.2 || 23.2 || 41.2 || 39.1 || rowspan="2" | 475
|-
! Upgraded
| 1,128 || 1,114 || 21.2 || 21.5 || 59.9 || 50.0
|-
|}

==== Details ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="6" | Features
|-
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear !! Drogue chute
|-
| X || ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || X 
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="7" | Limits
|-
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
|-
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
|-
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || N/A || 598 || 450 || ~12 || ~5
|-
|}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
|-
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
|-
| < 600 || < 700 || < 750 || N/A
|-
|}

==== Engine performance ====
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine
! colspan="4" | Aircraft mass
|-
! colspan="2" | Engine name || Number
! colspan="2" | {{Annotation|Basic mass|Mass of the aircraft with pilot and engine oil, but no fuel or weapons load}} || colspan="2" | Wing loading (full fuel)
|-
| colspan="2" | Klimov VK-1 || 1
| colspan="2" | 3,958 kg || colspan="2" | 227 kg/m2
|-
! colspan="3" | Engine characteristics
! colspan="3" | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) || rowspan="2" | Max Takeoff Weight
|-
! Weight (each) || colspan="2" | Type
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel
|-
| 892 kg || colspan="2" | Centrifugal-flow turbojet
| 4,310 kg || 4,755 kg || 5,130 kg || 5,485 kg
|-
! colspan="3" | {{Annotation|Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)|The maximum thrust produced by each engine, while mounted in the aircraft. NOTE: Thrust varies significantly depending on speed & altitude.}}
! colspan="4" | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (100%)
|-
! Condition || 100% || WEP
! 8m fuel || 20m fuel || 29m fuel || MTOW
|-
| ''Stationary'' || 2,450 kgf || N/A
| 0.57 || 0.52 || 0.48 || 0.45
|-
| ''Optimal'' || 2,450 kgf (0 km/h) || N/A
| 0.57 || 0.52 || 0.48 || 0.45
|-
|}

=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}

[[File:MiG-17AS Armour Scheme.png|right|thumb|The armour plates on the {{PAGENAME}}.]]
The {{PAGENAME}} armour around the pilot is a bit more substantial than that seen on F-86 Sabres. With a large 10 mm steel plate in the nose, this armour protects both the pilot and the fuel tank from any glancing frontal shots from going through and causing damage. A 60 mm bullet proof glass is also present in front of the pilot, which may also offer some ballistic protection against machine gun rounds. However, the glass and steel armour are not substantial enough to take a head-on attack from a similar aircraft, so don't use these as a safety net from head-on attacks. 16 mm steel plates cover the pilot's seat, which will protect the pilot against any glancing shots approaching from the rear, but it does not protect the fuel tank.

The {{PAGENAME}} structure overall is minimal, with the a lot of empty spaces in the fuselage and tail, but the control surfaces all over are still vulnerable to being cut and driving the {{PAGENAME}} out of control. Although there are two self-sealing fuel tanks on the {{PAGENAME}}, the largest one is seated right behind the pilot and so can be prone to being hit. This means an enemy that misses an attempt at a pilot snipe can still have a chance of hitting the fuel tank and igniting it, causing crippling damages to the overall {{PAGENAME}} structure.

Like the MiG-15 before it, if the tail vertical stabilizer gets knocked off the plane, so are the elevators, leaving the aircraft helpless if not already determined a victory by the score system to the offending enemy.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
=== Offensive armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}

{{main|N-37D (37 mm)|NR-23 (23 mm)}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:

* 1 x 37 mm N-37D cannon, chin-mounted (40 rpg)
* 2 x 23 mm NR-23 cannons, chin-mounted (80 rpg = 160 total)

The Nudelman N-37D was a 37 mm autocannon which replaced the Nudelman-Suranov NS-37 autocannons. The N-37D was 30% lighter than the NS-37, but to lighten the load, a sacrifice was made causing a 23% drop in muzzle velocity in comparison. Even with the loss of muzzle velocity, this autocannon can still fire at 400 rounds per minute which equates to just over six per second, emptying the belt in just over 7 seconds if the firing button is continuously held and the gun does not jam. The continuous fire of this weapon should not be attempted as only one or two rounds is enough to take down the largest of aircraft, though a dodging fighter may take a few more rounds before one connects.

The Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 was a 23 mm autocannon which was widely used on many Soviet aircraft. The NR-23 has a faster muzzle velocity over the N-37D by 200 m/s, firing them at the same time will not result in them landing in the same place as the N-37D will begin to drop sooner. Firing at around 900 rounds per minute, the NR-23 can unload a good amount of ammunition downrange, however, with a limited supply of only 80 rounds per gun, it is best to fire in small bursts when the pilot has a good gun solution. Firing in "hopes" to hit the target will result in many missed and wasted shots and may very well cause the {{PAGENAME}} to go dry just when those rounds are needed the most.

=== Suspended armament ===
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}

{{main|OFAB-250sv (250 kg)|R-3S|S-21}}

The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

* Without load
* 2 x 250 kg OFAB-250sv bombs (500 kg total)
* 2 x S-21 unguided rockets
* 2 x R-3S air-to-air missiles

Though built as a fighter-interceptor the {{PAGENAME}} has the suspended ordnance option to actually take on a multi-role function. The {{PAGENAME}} can function also as a fighter-bomber, fighter-attacker as well as a fighter-interceptor. To fulfil the bomber role, the MiG can be outfitted with two 250 kg bombs, though not enough to put a dent in an enemy base, these bombs are a great option for strategic bombing of vehicles or anti-aircraft artillery which may be a bit more spread out. These one-off or mobile targets are difficult for the higher up bombers to hit, but a fast and nimble strategic fighter-bomber can get in low and deliver the ordnance on to the target more efficiently.

As for the fighter-attacker role, the S-21 unguided rockets come into play. These unguided rockets are best used against ground-based tanks or high altitude bombers. Since the rockets are unguided, they work best against slow-moving targets and firing at a relatively short-range to endure positive contact either crippling the enemy vehicle or destroying it. The S-21 is a fire-and-forget rocket in that once it takes off, there is nothing more to do than let it reach its destination. At this point, the fighter can take evasive action or set up for another run if there are any rockets available to shoot.

For fast-paced air-to-air combat, the {{PAGENAME}} can be outfitted with two R-3S missiles (reversed engineered AIM-9 Sidewinder also known as the Vympel K-13 or NATO AA-2 "Atoll"). This missile works best when flying behind the target aircraft to allow the system enough time to gain a lock. Once the lock is achieved, the missile can be fired. It is best to fire between 1 and 1.5 km from the target to allow for the least amount of reaction time and potential for evasive action on the enemy aircraft's part. Firing a missile from a greater distance is possible, however, the more that the enemy fighter can react to the missile launch, the better the odds are that they will be successful in evading the missile. If the missile is evaded, all is not lost, many times the enemy fighter had to perform several energy bleeding manoeuvres to evade the missile which may ultimately set them up for the {{PAGENAME}} pilot to close in and eliminate the target with their 37 mm and 23 mm autocannons.

== Usage in battles ==


==== Against enemy aircraft ====
The MiG-17AS has much better high-altitude flight characteristics most planes at its rank, so it is best played in higher-altitude dogfights. Nearer to sea level, the competition will have better engine performance.

This vehicle performs much better in vertical manoeuvres than many other aircraft, and such manoeuvres may be employed to cause an enemy aircraft to stall, giving the player an easy kill. But make sure that there are no other enemies nearby before attempting a low-speed stall manoeuvre.

The engine also gives this vehicle very good energy retention and a high climb rate. However, the plane begins to compress at high speeds, and aiming may become difficult. Watch out for this during diving attacks.

So, this plane is well-suited for medium-speed dogfights, where it can utilise its energy retention and good turn rate against enemy aircraft. In addition, luring enemies to slow speeds will allow the MiG-17AS's air-to-air missiles to better track and destroy them. (In practically all other cases, the poor-tracking missiles will struggle to keep up with a fast-moving, turning enemy.)

As for cannon armament, the MiG-17AS has three high-calibre cannons. This may sound perfect at first glance, but the armament setup on this plane does create difficulties on further consideration. First of all, these cannons are all slow-firing, and it is not uncommon that a fast-moving enemy will slip between cannon shells and avoid destruction. Also, the shells have a fairly low muzzle velocity compared to that of other jets at this rank, and have quite a noticeable drop. Combined with the slow firing speed, this makes aiming difficult at the best of times, and extremely challenging at ranges over 400 m. But as if all of that wasn't enough, the cannons are mounted below the nose of the plane, making aim difficult for players inexperienced in flying with this gun positioning. Furthermore, all three cannons have quite low ammo counts, so trigger discipline is key. All in all, this vehicle's guns are certainly not its strong point, but keep in mind that the aircraft's admirable flight characteristics can more than make up for this weakness: when the enemy is stalled out in front of this aircraft, its guns are more than enough to guarantee the kill.

==== Against ground targets ====
The MiG-17AS has the option to mount 2 x 250 kg bombs. However, these bombs considerably harm the vehicle's flight performance, and have quite low destructive power. Using them against armoured ground targets is often difficult.

In most cases, a better option is to use the 2 x S-21 air-to-ground rockets available to this aircraft. These each contain a very good 9.95 kg of TNT, and may be fired separately. They also have quite respectable penetration, and will be able to penetrate the roof armour of many of the tanks that this vehicle might face in ground RB. They also have a decent velocity, and are easier to aim than bombs.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Very hard-hitting cannons
* Good manoeuvrability at low to moderate speeds
* Mounts two air-to-air missiles
* Better high-speed manoeuvrability than the MiG-15
* Doesn't rip its wings easily
* Good top speed, especially in a dive
* Can Rarely G-lock

'''Cons:'''

* Slow roll rate at high speeds
* Missiles are short-range
* Poor visibility in simulator: T-tail, gunsight and thick canopy frames create blind spots towards front and rear
* Armament difficult to use (low velocities, low ammo and two different trajectories)
* Guns tend to spark a lot (the N-37 in particular), especially with stock belts
* Tail hangs very close to the ground. Along with the pelvic fin, this can make takeoff trickier if the pilot is careless.

== History ==


The Korean War showed that the MiG-15 and [[MiG-15bis|MiG-15 bis]] fighters were able to battle any aerial opponent at least on equal terms. The MiG-17 was a further development of the MiG-15 design that had proven itself so well. It was decided to increase the aircraft's speed by increasing the sweep of the wing and the fuselage being lengthened to maintain the centre of gravity. The [[MiG-15|MiG-15]] and MiG-17 show almost no differences at first glance. The prototype of the MiG-17 was even called the MiG-15bis45. However, only the frontal parts of the fuselage are the same, from the air intake to the wing, if you don't count the landing headlight that had been moved to the left-wing and some minor details.

These aircraft are different in every other way. It is easy to see the main differences when you look from above. By comparing the side profiles, you can see that in addition to the difference in fuselage length there are differences in the tail fin and an additional ventral fin which allows you to immediately tell the MiG-17 apart from the MiG-15. The upper part of the fins and the rudders of the aircraft are different, the juncture between the fin and the stabilizer fin also differs, but this can only be seen close up. The wing sweep of the stabilizer fin was also increased and there were also changes to elevators. The air brakes also differ in shape and size. The depth of the housing was decreased, so a cigar-shaped cowl was created to hide the cylinder. There were very significant changes to the wing. Apart from an increased wing sweep, a leading-edge break appeared and the tips became rounder, which helps differentiate the aircraft when looking at them from above or below. While the Mig-15 had two aerodynamic ridges on the top surface of its wings, the MiG-17 had three.

The change in the shape of the wing led to appropriate changes in the construction of the flaps. The new geometry of the main landing gear legs required for the cover to be altered. The structure of the canopy also saw some changes. However, the first versions of the MiG-17 had the same canopies as the [[MiG-15bis|MiG-15 bis]]. Apart from changes to the design of the canopy framing (which is not actually that noticeable from afar), a rear-view mirror was introduced that would allow the aircraft to be recognized from further away. There were no significant changes to the cockpit. Overall, the MiG-17 looks even more aesthetically pleasing and streamlined than its predecessor.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=mig-17_cuba Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|SA65YXTKyBU|'''Should You Buy The MiG 17 AS''' - ''Sako Sniper''|hPPDvFNbbR0|'''Mig-17AS - So Good, Even I got An Ace In It''' - ''Napalmratte''|4Hbdwwb01NQ|'''F5 Shenyang & Cuban MIG 17 AS''' - ''Pinhead_Plays''|fCSKtDYDAYk|'''War Thunder Sim - MiG-17AS - Missile Armed MiG17''' - ''Spicysauced'' (Part starts at 6:16)}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-15]]
* Mikoyan-Gurevich [[MiG-17 (Family)|MiG-17]]
* [[Shenyang F-5]]

;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era

* Dassault [[Super Mystere B2|Super Mystere]]
* Hawker [[Hunter (Family)|Hunter]]
* North American [[F-86 (Family)|F-86]] Sabre

== External links ==


* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/285040-mikoyan-gurevich-mig-17/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]
* [[wikipedia:Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-17|[Wikipedia] Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17]]
* [https://www.historynet.com/mig-17-produced-north-vietnams-first-jet-to-air-victories.htm <nowiki>[History Net]</nowiki> MiG-17 produced north Vietnam's first jet to air victories]
* [http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/EqMiG17-e.html <nowiki>[Ruben Urribarres]</nowiki> The MiG-17 Fresco in Cuba]

{{AirManufacturer MiG}}
{{USSR jet aircraft}}
{{USSR premium aircraft}}