War Thunder Wiki - User contributions [en]

Panzerjager I

2024-11-09T11:42:57Z

U103352677: /* Pros and cons */

{{Specs-Card
|code=germ_panzerjager_1
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''Panzerjäger I''' (''4,7 cm Pak (t) (Sfl.) auf Pz.Kpfw.I (Sd.Kfz.101) ohne Turm'') was the first self-propelled gun adopted by Nazi Germany. The SPG had a chassis from the obsolete Pz.I, from which the turret was removed and the hull partially cut down; onto this an open-topped, rear fighting compartment was mounted. The vehicle was armed with a 47 mm captured Czech Skoda gun, designed in 1937-1938, which received the designation 4,7 cm PaK(t) in the Wehrmacht. The Panzerjäger I was produced from 1940 to 1941, during which period 202 units of the self-propelled guns were manufactured. It actively participated in the French, North African and Eastern campaigns, where it was used for ambushing fire and proved effective against enemy light tanks, but was practically helpless against medium and heavy tanks. In addition, in autumn/winter 1941, the self-propelled gun showed complete unsuitability for the climate of the Soviet Union, where it constantly broke down or got bogged down in mud and snow. The Panzerjäger I participated in combat operations until mid-1943.

Introduced in [[Update 1.57 "Battle March"]], the Panzerjäger I has a sufficiently powerful gun for its battle rating, but also an open fighting compartment, which makes it quite vulnerable to HE shells, artillery, and enemy aircraft.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides (Slope angle) !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 13 mm (18°) ''Front plate'' 13 mm (72-75°) ''Front glacis'' 13 mm (26°) ''Lower glacis'' || 13 mm || 13 mm || 8 mm
|-
| Superstructure || 14 mm (26°)|| 14 mm (15-18°)|| N/A || N/A
|-
|}
'''Notes:'''

* Suspension wheels and bogies are 10 mm thick while the tracks are 15 mm thick.

Any enemies at this rank can pierce your armour. However, the biggest threats are the SPAA vehicles due to their higher rate of fire with effective weapons that will absolutely rip apart the vehicle. Airplanes too are a concern, and artillery is very deadly.

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 142|rbMinHp= 88|}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|Pak.(t)(Sf.) (47 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Pak.(t)(Sf.) (47 mm)|47 mm Pak.(t)(Sf.)]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 86 || rowspan="2" | -8°/+10° || rowspan="2" | ±15° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 10.6 || 14.6 || 17.8 || 19.6 || 20.9 || rowspan="2" | 3.9 || rowspan="2" | 3.5 || rowspan="2" | 3.3 || rowspan="2" | 3.0
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 7.1 || 8.4 || 10.2 || 11.3 || 12.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{{:Pak.(t)(Sf.) (47 mm)/Ammunition|Pzgr.36(t), Pzgr.40}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''86''' || 76 ''(+10)'' || 42 ''(+44)'' || 27 ''(+59)'' || 17 ''(+69)'' || 0 ''(+86)'' || No
|-
|}
'''Notes''':

* Racks disappear after you've fired all shells in the rack.
* Turret empty: 76 ''(+10)'' shells.
* Right flank empty: 17 ''(+69)'' shells.

== Usage in battles ==

Although virtually unarmoured, the Panzerjäger I ''can'' be used in a head-on manner. However, this is not recommended. It is much better to snipe or ambush the enemy. Its gun may have a good Rate of Fire, but many other guns of its rank, such as the British 2-pounder, will reload faster than you. However, your gun is extremely powerful for its rank, which means you will go through almost anything, so there is no need to throw yourself in front of the enemy.

While the gun can be sufficient and one-shot many enemies from light to medium tanks, more heavily armoured tanks will be a problem unless using the APCR ammunition. The common enemies to be concerned about are the B1 bis, B1 ter, and Matilda Mk II if the Panzerjäger I is used as the highest-BR option in your line-up. The B1 bis is only frontally penetrable on the turret ring or the exposed breech of the hull-mounted 75 mm. The B1 ter is only penetrable in flank shots with APCR or a very lucky turret ring hit. The Matilda is only frontally penetrable on the turret ring or demands use of APCR.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Large ammo reserve of 86 rounds
* Agile vehicle, with a good power-to-weight ratio
* One of the best guns in Rank I, can penetrate most things it comes up against and destroy them in 1-2 penetrating hits due to HE filler
* Access to APCR ammunition for certain targets that the APC round cannot penetrate reliably
* Good ballistics for 47 mm, can be used effectively at long range
* Narrow, can fit in tight spaces
* Fast reload

'''Cons:'''

* Tall profile, bigger target
* Very thin armour, maximum of 15 mm
* Crew operating the gun have no armour protection in the top and rear of their position
* Not a lot of horsepower, poor for towing downed allied vehicles
* No defensive machine gun, open-topped SPAA can be a problem
* Gun quickly becomes obsolete in uptiers, it does not cope well with sloped armour
* Prone to flipping over when making turns at high speed (especially in arcade with upgrades to mobility)

== History ==

===Development===
The heavily armoured tanks in Allied inventory was considered a threat to the German armoured forces, which consisted of mostly 3.7 cm gun that were ineffective. To counter these threats, the Germans sought for a vehicle able to mount a bigger gun able to fight these tanks. It was found that they could convert obsolete chassis designs like the Panzer I to mount the guns, thus saving the design process of developing a new vehicle for the role. The Czech 4.7 cm Pak(t) anti-tank gun was chosen for this task, and was mounted on a converted Panzer I chassis with the turret removed, a gun shield was used for the mount of the gun. Between 1940 to 1941, 202 Panzer Is were converted by Alkett and Deutz AG to these tank destroyers, designated the "Panzerjäger I", the first of its kind of tank destroyers in the war.

===Combat usage===
The Panzerjäger I were organised in anti-tank battalions, each having three companies with nine vehicles each. Five battalions in the war were equipped with the tank destroyer. The first usage of the Panzerjäger I was in the Battle of France, where four battalions were committed. Though, only Anti-Tank Battalion 521 saw service from the beginning to the end as the other four were still in training when the campaign started. The opinion of the crew of these vehicles were positive, saying that the weapon was adequate to distances up to 600 m if the enemy had 45 to 50 mm of armour. However, the crew also say that the ability to observe the battle in the vehicle was terrible, the crew had to look over the shield to see what is ahead, risking themselves to injury to the head.

After the Battle of France, the Panzerjäger I's in Anti-Tank Battalion 605 were sent to the North African Campaign, though only 3 of the 27 vehicles made it as the transport freighter ''Castellon'' carrying the rest was sunk. The battalion was in full strength during the British offensive in Operation Crusader in November 1941, to which they lost 13 vehicles in the battle. Battle experience praise the accuracy the vehicle provides, but state that the vehicles were too weak for the combat conditions and the gun didn't have enough penetration in long distance. With an APCR round, it was found it could destroy the venerable Matilda infantry tanks at distance of around 400 m. The battalion continued this battle of attrition with reinforcement and losses that during the Second Battle of El Alamein in October 1942, only 11 Panzerjäger Is were left in the battalion. The last two replacement vehicle were sent to the battalion in November 1942. In Operation Barbarossa, five anti-tank battalions were equipped with the Panzerjäger Is, which made up a total of 135 vehicles. The combat experience was subpar, while the Panzerjäger I had a good effective range of up to 1,000 to 1,200 m, but the high profile of the vehicle presented a big target to enemy anti-tank weapons and artillery, even shrapnel from high-explosive shells could penetrate the thin armour. Many Panzerjäger I's were destroyed and by the Fall of 1942, many battalions reported to be under equipped for further action and were disbanded. At this point, better anti-tank weaponry and vehicles were more accessible and replaced the Panzerjäger I in service, notably the Marder series.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=germ_panzerjager_1 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|7QXTwiEGLT4|'''PanzerJager 1. Nice little gun, on a nice Chassis!''' - ''Joseph 2000''|gvw95nUZnQE|'''The Panzerjager I, German Tier-1, Tank Destroyer / SPG''' - ''Angry Nerd Gaming''}}

== See also ==


;Vehicles equipped with the same chassis

* [[Flakpanzer I]]

;Similar German vehicles

* [[Marder III]]
* [[Marder III H]]

;Other vehicles of similar configuration and role

* [[M3 GMC]]
* [[SU-5-1]]
* [[SU-57]]
* [[Ho-Ni I]]
* [[47/32 L40]]
* [[Ikv 72]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/devblog/current/886/|[Development] The Panzerjäger I, and announcing a branch of German SPGs with open cabins]]
* [[wt:en/news/4478-profile-panzerjäger-i-the-first-german-tank-hunter-en|[Profile] Panzerjäger I - The first German Tank Hunter]]
* [[wikipedia:Panzerjäger_I|Wikipedia - Panzerjäger I]]
* [https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/Panzerjager_I.php Tanks Encyclopedia - 4,7 cm PaK (t) (Sfl) auf Pz.Kpfw.I (Sd.Kfz.101) ohne Turm, Panzerjäger I]

{{Germany tank destroyers}}

Panzerjager I

2024-10-27T01:07:37Z

U103352677: /* Pros and cons */

{{Specs-Card
|code=germ_panzerjager_1
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''Panzerjäger I''' (''4,7 cm Pak (t) (Sfl.) auf Pz.Kpfw.I (Sd.Kfz.101) ohne Turm'') was the first self-propelled gun adopted by Nazi Germany. The SPG had a chassis from the obsolete Pz.I, from which the turret was removed and the hull partially cut down; onto this an open-topped, rear fighting compartment was mounted. The vehicle was armed with a 47 mm captured Czech Skoda gun, designed in 1937-1938, which received the designation 4,7 cm PaK(t) in the Wehrmacht. The Panzerjäger I was produced from 1940 to 1941, during which period 202 units of the self-propelled guns were manufactured. It actively participated in the French, North African and Eastern campaigns, where it was used for ambushing fire and proved effective against enemy light tanks, but was practically helpless against medium and heavy tanks. In addition, in autumn/winter 1941, the self-propelled gun showed complete unsuitability for the climate of the Soviet Union, where it constantly broke down or got bogged down in mud and snow. The Panzerjäger I participated in combat operations until mid-1943.

Introduced in [[Update 1.57 "Battle March"]], the Panzerjäger I has a sufficiently powerful gun for its battle rating, but also an open fighting compartment, which makes it quite vulnerable to HE shells, artillery, and enemy aircraft.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides (Slope angle) !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 13 mm (18°) ''Front plate'' 13 mm (72-75°) ''Front glacis'' 13 mm (26°) ''Lower glacis'' || 13 mm || 13 mm || 8 mm
|-
| Superstructure || 14 mm (26°)|| 14 mm (15-18°)|| N/A || N/A
|-
|}
'''Notes:'''

* Suspension wheels and bogies are 10 mm thick while the tracks are 15 mm thick.

Any enemies at this rank can pierce your armour. However, the biggest threats are the SPAA vehicles due to their higher rate of fire with effective weapons that will absolutely rip apart the vehicle. Airplanes too are a concern, and artillery is very deadly.

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 142|rbMinHp= 88|}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|Pak.(t)(Sf.) (47 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Pak.(t)(Sf.) (47 mm)|47 mm Pak.(t)(Sf.)]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 86 || rowspan="2" | -8°/+10° || rowspan="2" | ±15° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 10.6 || 14.6 || 17.8 || 19.6 || 20.9 || rowspan="2" | 3.9 || rowspan="2" | 3.5 || rowspan="2" | 3.3 || rowspan="2" | 3.0
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 7.1 || 8.4 || 10.2 || 11.3 || 12.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{{:Pak.(t)(Sf.) (47 mm)/Ammunition|Pzgr.36(t), Pzgr.40}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''86''' || 76 ''(+10)'' || 42 ''(+44)'' || 27 ''(+59)'' || 17 ''(+69)'' || 0 ''(+86)'' || No
|-
|}
'''Notes''':

* Racks disappear after you've fired all shells in the rack.
* Turret empty: 76 ''(+10)'' shells.
* Right flank empty: 17 ''(+69)'' shells.

== Usage in battles ==

Although virtually unarmoured, the Panzerjäger I ''can'' be used in a head-on manner. However, this is not recommended. It is much better to snipe or ambush the enemy. Its gun may have a good Rate of Fire, but many other guns of its rank, such as the British 2-pounder, will reload faster than you. However, your gun is extremely powerful for its rank, which means you will go through almost anything, so there is no need to throw yourself in front of the enemy.

While the gun can be sufficient and one-shot many enemies from light to medium tanks, more heavily armoured tanks will be a problem unless using the APCR ammunition. The common enemies to be concerned about are the B1 bis, B1 ter, and Matilda Mk II if the Panzerjäger I is used as the highest-BR option in your line-up. The B1 bis is only frontally penetrable on the turret ring or the exposed breech of the hull-mounted 75 mm. The B1 ter is only penetrable in flank shots with APCR or a very lucky turret ring hit. The Matilda is only frontally penetrable on the turret ring or demands use of APCR.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Large ammo reserve of 86 rounds
* Agile vehicle, with a good power-to-weight ratio
* One of the best guns in Rank I, can penetrate most things it comes up against and destroy them in 1-2 penetrating hits due to HE filler
* Access to APCR ammunition for certain targets that the APC-HE cannot penetrate reliably
* Good ballistics for 47 mm, can be used effectively at long range
* Narrow, can fit in tight spaces
* Fast reload

'''Cons:'''

* Tall profile, bigger target
* Very thin armour, maximum of 15 mm
* Crew operating the gun have no armour protection in the top and rear of their position
* Not a lot of horsepower, poor for towing downed allied vehicles
* No defensive machine gun, open-top SPAA can be a problem
* Gun quickly becomes obsolete in uptiers, it does not cope well with sloped armour
* Prone to flipping over (specially in arcade)

== History ==

===Development===
The heavily armoured tanks in Allied inventory was considered a threat to the German armoured forces, which consisted of mostly 3.7 cm gun that were ineffective. To counter these threats, the Germans sought for a vehicle able to mount a bigger gun able to fight these tanks. It was found that they could convert obsolete chassis designs like the Panzer I to mount the guns, thus saving the design process of developing a new vehicle for the role. The Czech 4.7 cm Pak(t) anti-tank gun was chosen for this task, and was mounted on a converted Panzer I chassis with the turret removed, a gun shield was used for the mount of the gun. Between 1940 to 1941, 202 Panzer Is were converted by Alkett and Deutz AG to these tank destroyers, designated the "Panzerjäger I", the first of its kind of tank destroyers in the war.

===Combat usage===
The Panzerjäger I were organised in anti-tank battalions, each having three companies with nine vehicles each. Five battalions in the war were equipped with the tank destroyer. The first usage of the Panzerjäger I was in the Battle of France, where four battalions were committed. Though, only Anti-Tank Battalion 521 saw service from the beginning to the end as the other four were still in training when the campaign started. The opinion of the crew of these vehicles were positive, saying that the weapon was adequate to distances up to 600 m if the enemy had 45 to 50 mm of armour. However, the crew also say that the ability to observe the battle in the vehicle was terrible, the crew had to look over the shield to see what is ahead, risking themselves to injury to the head.

After the Battle of France, the Panzerjäger I's in Anti-Tank Battalion 605 were sent to the North African Campaign, though only 3 of the 27 vehicles made it as the transport freighter ''Castellon'' carrying the rest was sunk. The battalion was in full strength during the British offensive in Operation Crusader in November 1941, to which they lost 13 vehicles in the battle. Battle experience praise the accuracy the vehicle provides, but state that the vehicles were too weak for the combat conditions and the gun didn't have enough penetration in long distance. With an APCR round, it was found it could destroy the venerable Matilda infantry tanks at distance of around 400 m. The battalion continued this battle of attrition with reinforcement and losses that during the Second Battle of El Alamein in October 1942, only 11 Panzerjäger Is were left in the battalion. The last two replacement vehicle were sent to the battalion in November 1942. In Operation Barbarossa, five anti-tank battalions were equipped with the Panzerjäger Is, which made up a total of 135 vehicles. The combat experience was subpar, while the Panzerjäger I had a good effective range of up to 1,000 to 1,200 m, but the high profile of the vehicle presented a big target to enemy anti-tank weapons and artillery, even shrapnel from high-explosive shells could penetrate the thin armour. Many Panzerjäger I's were destroyed and by the Fall of 1942, many battalions reported to be under equipped for further action and were disbanded. At this point, better anti-tank weaponry and vehicles were more accessible and replaced the Panzerjäger I in service, notably the Marder series.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=germ_panzerjager_1 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|7QXTwiEGLT4|'''PanzerJager 1. Nice little gun, on a nice Chassis!''' - ''Joseph 2000''|gvw95nUZnQE|'''The Panzerjager I, German Tier-1, Tank Destroyer / SPG''' - ''Angry Nerd Gaming''}}

== See also ==


;Vehicles equipped with the same chassis

* [[Flakpanzer I]]

;Similar German vehicles

* [[Marder III]]
* [[Marder III H]]

;Other vehicles of similar configuration and role

* [[M3 GMC]]
* [[SU-5-1]]
* [[SU-57]]
* [[Ho-Ni I]]
* [[47/32 L40]]
* [[Ikv 72]]

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/devblog/current/886/|[Development] The Panzerjäger I, and announcing a branch of German SPGs with open cabins]]
* [[wt:en/news/4478-profile-panzerjäger-i-the-first-german-tank-hunter-en|[Profile] Panzerjäger I - The first German Tank Hunter]]
* [[wikipedia:Panzerjäger_I|Wikipedia - Panzerjäger I]]
* [https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/Panzerjager_I.php Tanks Encyclopedia - 4,7 cm PaK (t) (Sfl) auf Pz.Kpfw.I (Sd.Kfz.101) ohne Turm, Panzerjäger I]

{{Germany tank destroyers}}

M8 Scott

2024-10-20T14:41:58Z

U103352677: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = American tank destroyer '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
|other
|usage-1 = other versions
|link-1 = M8 General Scott (Family)
|usage-2 = other uses
|link-2 = M8 (Disambiguation)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=us_m8_scott
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_M8_HMC.png}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''75 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage M8 (M8 HMC)''' is a self-propelled howitzer vehicle used by the U.S. Army during World War II. It was built on the chassis of the Light Tank M5 and was armed with an M116 howitzer mounted on an M7 mount. Similarly to how the [[LVT(A)(4)]] evolved from the [[LVT(A)(1)]] as the 37 mm M6 tank gun proved insufficient for the fire support role, trials with a close-support version of installing the same 75 mm M2 howitzer began first with the Light Tank M3 chassis. However, such a design is inherently problematic as the tank is nose-heavy and can tilt forward during driving. They also deemed the fighting compartment to be extremely cramped. This design was immediately revised by transferring the same 75 mm M2 howitzer to the new Light Tank M5 chassis, which included a new engine and a new fighting compartment design with a well-sloped front that gave greater room and significantly improved protection. Following that, additional modifications were made, including replacing the fixed combat compartment with a new manually rotated turret mounting the same tank gun to allow greater space for the crew. The prototype was eventually designated the 75 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage M8.

Introduced in [[Update 1.67 "Assault"]], the M8 HMC has a similar playstyle to the LVT(A)(4), but with a smaller profile and greater mobility. Since the primary 75 mm M2 howitzer fires low-velocity projectiles, long-range engagement is undesirable. However, given the low velocity of the shells, it is possible to engage opponents who are not in the line of sight, such as by moving behind low obstacles and firing shells in a short arc to target enemies behind the cover. Nonetheless, it is a unique vehicle with a different playstyle than the typical light tanks used by the U.S. Army ground forces in the early ranks.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}


'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour
* Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet)

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 28.5 mm (48-49°) ''Front Glacis'' 38.1 mm (15-30°) ''Lower glacis'' || 28.5 mm ''Front'' 25.4 mm ''Rear'' || 25.4 mm (1-47°) ''Top'' 25.4 mm (1-20°) ''Bottom'' || 12.7 mm
|-
| Turret || 38.1 mm (6-40°) ''Turret front'' 38.1 mm (1-65°) ''Gun mantlet'' || 25.4 mm (18-20°) || 25.4 mm (1°) || N/A
|-
|}
'''Notes:'''

* Suspension wheels are 15 mm thick while tracks are 10 mm thick.
* Tracks are peppered on the turret sides that give 17 mm extra where they are.
* Belly armour is 12.7 mm thick

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp=420|rbMinHp=262}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|M2 Howitzer (75 mm)}}

Thanks to its HEAT shell, the M8 Scott's firepower can handle everything with ease, from destroying soft targets with overpressure like the LVT(A) to knocking out common foes like the [[Chi-Ha (Family)|Chi-Ha]] with a single shot to piercing tough adversaries like the [[B1 bis|B1]] and [[Matilda III|Matilda]]. The extremely slow turret traverse makes close quarter combat super challenging. Its short gun is also bad for long range engagements: it requires the player to be crystal clear of what they are doing, and have great situational awareness to predict the enemies' location in order to make up for the slow turret traverse and slow muzzle velocity.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[M2 Howitzer (75 mm)|75 mm M2 Howitzer]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 46 || rowspan="2" | -20°/+40° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 5.28 || 7.31 || 8.88 || 9.82 || 10.45 || rowspan="2" | 4.29 || rowspan="2" | 3.80 || rowspan="2" | 3.50 || rowspan="2" | 3.30
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 3.57 || 4.20 || 5.10 || 5.64 || 6.00
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{{:M2 Howitzer (75 mm)/Ammunition|M48 shell, M66, M64}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''46''' || 35 ''(+11)'' || 23 ''(+23)'' || 12 ''(+34)'' || 1 ''(+45)'' || No
|-
|}

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}

{{main|M2HB (12.7 mm)}}
The 12.7 mm M2HB is an excellent machine gun at this tier. It not only has the capability to threaten low-tier fighters and ground attack aircraft, but can even threaten armoured vehicles. Generally, the M2 should be saved for emergency situations against ground targets, as generally an HE or HEAT round is objectively more effective.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[M2HB (12.7 mm)|12.7 mm M2HB]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Pintle || 400 (200) || 576 || -5°/+70° || ±180°
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

In general, the M8 Scott plays like a beefed-up M5A1. The massive increase in gun calibre and destructive potential gives it more flexibility when engaging heavier armoured targets. Like the M3/M5 Stuart, playing this tank aggressively will almost always guarantee a place on the leaderboard. Push for the cap and then take it without hesitation. Should an enemy get there first, enter the cap and flank the target. Get behind their turret and go for a shot to the turret rear. Once the capture point is held, find a good hull down position and use the 75 mm HEAT to destroy any and all oncoming tanks.

Against heavier armour, the need to find a good hidden position is critical. On certain tanks, the addition of track armour can give the M8 difficulty in penetrating them. Hence a good hull down position on their flank can provide a good position to hit their side armour, with almost certain destruction coming from it.

Tanks like the [[Pz.IV F2|Panzer IV F2]] and it's line of tanks can be a serious headache for the vehicle to encounter. Aim for the right side of their turret and knock-out their gunner first, then aim for the middle of their hull (upper or lower glacis works) for a final shot. Outside of that most of the heavy armour will be out of the M8's BR range, leaving most encountered vehicles viable to destroy.

=== Pros and cons ===

'''Pros:'''

* When hull-down its double layer turret front can bounce some low-calibre or low-penetrating shells like the [[Pz.II (Disambiguation)|Pz.II]]s' 20 mm
* Speed and mobility akin to the [[M5A1]] light tanks, allowing it to manoeuvre and flank with ease
* Great firepower: thanks to its HEAT shell, the M8 can handle every vehicle it faces
* Extremely rare gun depression of -20 degrees making it able to peek above almost every slope and launch surprise attacks
* Short reload time for the calibre allows quick follow-up shots
* Low muzzle velocity shell's parabolic path can allow for shooting over hills which can be surprisingly useful
* 12.7 mm heavy machine gun is very lethal at the battle rating as most tanks have thin armour, for example the [[BT-7]], [[Marder III|Marder]]
* Said 12.7 mm heavy machine gun is mounted on a pretty tall position allowing for firing over obstacles

'''Cons:'''

* Open-top turret exposes crew to overpressure and aircraft strafing fire
* Thin armour and tight crew makes it very vulnerable to tank destroyers that have APHE shells, like the SU-76
* Poor steering at high speeds
* Extremely slow turret traverse
* Shells have low muzzle velocity and huge drop, hard for shooting long-range or moving targets

== History ==

===Development===
In United State's entry into World War II, the troops in the front lines require a support vehicle similar to those in use by the German forces in the form of the [[StuG III A|StuG III]]. The project for such vehicle began as a design submitted in late 1941, which was a [[M5A1|M5 Light Tank]] mated with a howitzer on the hull front, designated the ''T41''. This design didn't pass as the howitzer on the hull sacrificed crew protection. The design was revised on the same M5 light tank and instead had the M5 turret removed and replaced with an open-topped turret similar to the US tank destroyers [[M10 GMC|M10]] and [[M18 GMC|M18]], which mounted a 75 mm howitzer. This change caused the hatches for the driver and assistant driver to be placed on the glacis front rather than the hull roof. This design, called the ''T17E1 HMC'' was approved and put into production under the designation ''75 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage M8'', or the [[M8 Scott]]. The 75 mm M2 howitzer was the initial armament of the M8 before switching to the updated 75 mm M3 howitzer later in production. The howitzer was capable of firing smoke M89 or high-explosive M48 rounds, the vehicle could hold 46 of these 75 mm rounds. The M8 does not have any machine guns on the coaxial or hull-mounted area, but a .50 cal Browning was mounted on the rear right corner of the turret for infantry defense. The vehicle was put into production in April 1942 and continued until January 1944, of which a total of 1,778 units were produced by Cadillac only.

===Combat usage===
These vehicles would go on to serve in the Italian Campaign, European Campaign, and in the Pacific in the hands of the US Army. The M8 saw use in American service until the M7 Priest 105 mm self-propelled gun could be fielded in large numbers, which stopped the M8 production and service in American units. After being phased out of American service, the M8 was then given to the Free French forces that use them in the Western Front of the European operations. The French continue to use them all the way to 1954 in the French-Indochina conflict in use by South-Vietnamese forces. Other users of the M8 included the Khmers national army, Laos, China, and the Philippines.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=us_m8_scott Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Images
<gallery mode="packed-hover" heights="200">
File:M8 HMC pilot at Aberdeen Proving Ground.jpg|An M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage at Aberdeen Proving Ground
</gallery>

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|1yg1DAEbG8A|'''The Stuart Family''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 4:11 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''|4_cJ1CpEatw|'''Best gun depression''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 3:43 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''}}

== See also ==


* [[M8 General Scott (Family)]]

== External links ==


* [[wikipedia:Howitzer_Motor_Carriage_M8|[Wikipedia] Howitzer Motor Carriage M8]]
* [https://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/US/M8_Scott.php <nowiki>[Tank Encyclopedia]</nowiki> H.M.C. M8 "Scott"]
* [https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.php?armor_id=496 <nowiki>[Military Factory]</nowiki> M8 Scott (Howitzer Motor Carriage M8)]

{{USA tank destroyers}}

Dicker Max

2024-10-20T14:33:48Z

U103352677: /* Pros and cons */

{{Specs-Card
|code=germ_pzsfl_IVa_dickermax
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''105 mm K.18 Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IV Ausführung A (Dicker Max)''' is a German self-propelled heavy artillery gun. The German Army requested a mobile "bunker buster" in 1939 to demolish the fortifications along the French border, also known as the French Maginot Line in the Alsace-Lorraine province. However, it would never serve that role since the only two vehicles ever built were completed in early 1941, long after the Battle of France had ended. The tank chassis was taken from the reliable [[Pz.IV E|Panzer IV E variant]] and was armed with the standard 105 mm K.18 heavy artillery gun. The ammunition utilized was tungsten-core rounds, which had excellent penetration capabilities when combined with the gun's high velocity. Both vehicles were transferred to the Eastern Front as tank destroyers, where one of them would go on to destroy a considerable number of Soviet tanks.

Introduced in [[Update 1.57 "Battle March"]], the Dicker Max would go on to become one of the most feared tank destroyers in its class. It can completely destroy any enemy tanks it hits with its enormous 105 mm K.18 heavy artillery gun. Precise aiming for weak spots is unnecessary, as its best armour-piercing shell's 187 mm armour penetration value can penetrate even the most strongly armoured heavy tanks encountered during engagements. However, it is vital to emphasize that such vehicles are only minimally armoured. Although it can penetrate any tank in its ranks, any tank in its rank can equally easily penetrate it. The vehicle is based on the Panzer IV E variant, which provides it with respectable speed and mobility. Players should use the "Dicker Max" superb gun depression to deliver unexpected blows to the opponent before withdrawing to cover and repositioning to avoid retaliatory artillery strikes.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

The survivability of the Dicker Max is very inadequate. The all-round armour is very thin and poorly angled, varying from 20 mm to 50 mm, which is not enough to stop any rounds other than rifle-calibre bullets. Post-penetration survivability is bad, crew members or critical components (eg. gun breech, engine) will usually get destroyed, crippling the tank. It is also open-topped, meaning any plane with a gun can kill you. Fire from above will usually hurt or knock out all your crew members, and damage exposed modules like gun breech and ammo. Common aircraft like the [[P-47D-22 RE (France)|P-47]] can do this in just a few seconds with machine guns alone. The only plus side is perhaps that the 5 crew members are spread out on the hull sides, meaning it might take a few shots to destroy the Dicker Max using solid shots (eg. [[Sherman Firefly]]). Unfortunately vehicles firing explosive-packed shells (eg. [[ISU-152]]) still have no problem knocking out the Dicker Max in a single shot. Therefore, you not only have to avoid ground vehicles, threats from the sky must also be considered, which makes the Dicker Max a challenge to play.

'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides (Slope angle) !! Rear (Slope angle) !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 12 mm (77°) ''Front glacis'' 50 mm (20°) ''Lower glacis'' 50 mm (14°) ''Driver ports''|| 20 mm || 20 mm (9°) || 12 mm
|-
| Superstructure || 30 mm (14°) ''Front'' 50 mm (16°) ''Gun mantlet'' || 20 mm (21°) || 20 mm (9-17°) || 10 mm
|-
|}
'''Notes:'''

* Suspension wheels are 15 mm thick and tracks are 20 mm thick.
* The roof of the superstructure does not fully cover the top, thus still exposing the crew members.

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp=256|rbMinHp=159}}
The mobility of the Dicker Max is its biggest weakness. Powered by a weak 180 hp engine, the vehicle features a very low power-to-weight ratio resulting in sluggish acceleration even on hard surface, soft terrain only worsens the situation. The top speed is very limited although it is based on a Pz.IV chassis. The hull traverse is absurdly terrible, comparing to the agility of the Pz.IV, the Dicker Max barely turns on its tracks. Forward/backward jerk helps a little, though not a lot. Reverse speed is slow as always. All these aspects are further weakened as the Dicker Max usually drives in its most suitable environment: hills.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

Like always, Parts and FPE come first to increase the survivability.

For a newly acquired Dicker Max, consider unlocking all mobility modifications early. Because its sluggishness is its biggest enemy, the Dicker Max can often lose the chance of firing simply because it cannot turn its hull quickly/climb up a small slope in time. This is more noticeable when the Dicker Max is getting flanked/circled. Even a heavy tank like [[M6A1]] can easily drive around a stock Dicker Max and avoid its gun.

The next modifications to research can be the gun aiming drives, to speed up the targeting process as well as enhancing the accuracy of the cannon. This is critical for a sniper like Dicker Max as it relies on precision at long ranges.

Other modifications like the Pzgr.rot may not be as important: the stock shell is already lethal for common opponents such as [[T-34 (Family)|T-34]] and [[M4]], the researchable round is only useful against heavy targets like [[M4A3E2]].

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|K.18 (105 mm)}}
The reason why Dicker Max shines as a sniper is the 105 mm cannon. The stock shell offers a good amount of penetration of 133 mm at 1,000 m, filled with more than 300 g TNT equivalent for an explosive filler, meaning the Dicker Max can frontally penetrate the majority of opponents and take them out in one hit them at a comfortable distance. The researchable shell takes a step further by having improved explosive mass and ricochet angles, easing the killing of heavily armoured tanks like [[KV-85]], [[M4A3E2]], and [[ARL-44]]. The reload time of ~13 seconds is slow but usual on such a big calibre.

Apart from the cannon itself, other aspects of it further improve the lethality of Dicker Max. The most noticeable feature is the amazing -15° gun depression. This angle is enough to hull-down on most slopes in most maps where vehicles with around -10° depression cannot hull-down (eg. [[M4]]). By hiding behind hills, the Dicker Max can conceal its weak body and only expose its destructive cannon.

The gunsight is also a huge advantage. While most WW2 era tanks are equipped with scopes of ~3.5x zoom, the Dicker Max has a 9.2x zoom scope which is even higher than the binoculars, meaning it can conveniently pick a spot that is far away from the frontline and destroy targets one by one. Through this nice sight, a tank 1,000 m away can seem like it is only 500 m away, making it very friendly to aim for weak spots. Even if the target realises that they are being shot at, they usually fail to land hits for ~2 shots in RB as most players cannot aim accurately at distant targets, and their poor 3.5x zoom makes aiming even harder. By utilising the great gun depression and gunsight to loom behind hills, the Dicker Max protects itself with distance and concealment to compensate its poor armour.

The only downside of the Dicker Max's firepower are the limited horizontal traverse and the elevation. Both of these require the tank to constantly adjust the hull in order to target which may or may not expose itself to an observing enemy.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[K.18 (105 mm)|105 mm K.18]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 26 || rowspan="2" | -15°/+10° || rowspan="2" | ±8° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 10.6 || 14.6 || 17.8 || 19.6 || 20.9 || rowspan="2" | 13.00 || rowspan="2" | 11.50 || rowspan="2" | 10.60 || rowspan="2" | 10.00
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 7.1 || 8.4 || 10.2 || 11.3 || 12.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{{:K.18 (105 mm)/Ammunition|PzGr, Gr.19, Pzgr.rot}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! Ammo part
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''26''' || style="text-align:right" | ''Projectiles'' ''Propellants'' || 13 ''(+13)'' 13 ''(+13)'' || 1 ''(+25)'' 1 ''(+25)'' || Yes
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

As with any open-topped SPGs (such as the [[Marder III]]s), this is not a vehicle to charge the opponent with. However, one that can very effective at long ranges and from behind cover. An alternative play style for these vehicle in a closer range is supporting standard tanks by watching their flanks. It is not a fast vehicle, especially in realistic and simulator battles, but once it finds a place to stop and take aim, its gun is a very, very efficient anti-tank weapon, comparable to that of the mighty [[KV-2 (1939)|KV-2]] turreted assault gun. Its most notable feature is its extreme gun depression, over -15° to +10°, which allows this tank to take advantage of great hull-down positions behind hills, becoming near-invisible in [[Realistic Battles|RB]] and [[Simulator Battles|SB]] at [[Visibility_mechanics|distance]]. Its weakness however, is rather obvious: the crew compartment is thinly armoured, which means basically anything can penetrate it can cause havoc for the tank commander and his crew. Combined with its slow acceleration, this is a vehicle to be used in a tactical manner in both offensive or usually, defensive combat.

With only 50 mm of armour at its battle rating, the Dicker Max can be defeated frontally by any vehicle of its rank, even at some range. It is particularly vulnerable to SPAAs with a high rate of fire (heavy machine guns can penetrate the rear, or shoot down into the cabin should the opportunity present itself) and large-calibre shells.

After staying at one spot and scoring a few kills, you might want to consider relocating, even moving a short distance to a neighbouring cover i enough. This is because after a while, enemy tankers will know your position and direct their supporting aircraft towards your location. Airplanes are a devastating threat for the Dicker Max, especially their guns and bombs. Relocating can thus foil the attempts by incoming planes to target your original firing spot. You need to anticipate this move, as the Dicker Max does not have the good mobility to drive to anywhere in time.

'''Enemies worth noting:'''

* [[T55E1]]: this wheeled tank destroyer can be very annoying to deal with. Although it is thinly armoured thus can get easily destroyed by the Dicker Max, an experienced T55E1 commander will utilise its superior mobility. It is arguably one of the fastest and most agile vehicle at the BR, in conjunction with its low profile, it makes it fairly hard for a Dicker Max to target it effectively given Dicker Max's slow-aiming gun and poor mobility. It is almost impossible to fight back if a T55E1 manages to flank and circle a Dicker Max.
* [[KV-1E]]: this model of the KV-1 is fitted with additional armour plates, significantly boosting its protection even against Dicker Max's big cannon. When a KV-1E is angling or at a distance (or both) it is extremely challenging to score a successful penetration. The front and side of the hull and turret can usually shred off incoming shells. Effective ways to penetrate it is to shoot at the frontal plate or hull/turret side when the KV is not angling, or to target the rounded gun mantlet where it is only 75-90 mm thick, however this requires very high precision as the vertical areas it may penetrate are quite small.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Excellent penetration with both stock and researchable rounds.
* Large explosive filler guarantees the destruction of the targeted vehicle, even for the most armoured foes like the [[M4A3E2]] and the [[IS-1]]
* One of the best gun depression (-15°) allows it to adapt any terrains with great ease and hide behind hills
* Outstanding gunsight zoom (9.2x) meaning it can comfortably engage targets from long range, thus avoiding exposure to enemy fire
* 5 crew members are spread out along the sides, meaning it is hard to get taken out by a single shot by most rounds
* Easily hidden when hull down

'''Cons:'''

* Terrible mobility regardless of road quality: slow top speed, abysmal hull traverse, poor reverse, sluggish acceleration. Responds slowly to fast targets like [[T55E1]]
* Rather limited horizontal gun traverse of 16°
* Inadequate gun elevation of only 10°, meaning it cannot target properly when the opponent is above the Dicker Max
* No armour protection: low thickness around the vehicle. Can get penetrated by any gun and can still detonate APHE shells
* Open-topped design makes it very vulnerable to strafing aircraft
* Reload speed is twice slower in average than its opponents
* Stock shells tend to ricochet on rounded armour (eg. turret cheeks of [[IS-1]])
* Slow muzzle velocity gives the shell a noticeable drop, long range sniping can take time to get used to
* Large side profile

== History ==

===Development===
The role of the "assault gun" in the German army in World War II gave the infantry an upper hand in assaulting fortification. However, heavy bunkers could withstand large punishment from artillery and closing up to the bunker for a closer shot exposed the assault guns and artilleries to defensive artillery weapon. A weapon was needed to fight bunkers at an extreme range that the bunkers and other defensive weaponry would not be able to return fire, something with a very heavy gun to destroy these bunkers. Krupp began development of such a vehicle in 1939, but such a vehicle soon became unnecessary with the conclusion of the Battle of France. Thus, the project shifted from a heavy "assault gun" to a tank destroyer. Two of these vehicles were built in January 1941 and were presented to Hitler in March 1941. It was hoping that if proved favorable, the vehicle would be able to be put into service and production by Spring 1942.

===Design===
The vehicle design during its development was called the ''10 cm K. (Pz. Sfl. IVa)'' and the ''10.5 cm K (gp.Sfl.)''. Another name it was called was '''Dicker Max''' (''Thick'' or ''Fat Max''). The design took a [[Pz.IV E|Panzer IV Ausf. E]] chassis and removed the turret to add an open-topped superstructure on top to hold the heavy 10.5 cm gun. The design had armour around 50 mm in the front angled at 15 degrees. Armoured compartments were present in the vehicle rear to protect loaders from overhead attacks. The front has a false driver port present on the right side of the vehicle with the real one on the left, whether it was there to deceive enemy fire or simply a design oversight is unknown. The commander, gunner, and loaders all have their own sights available to them to observe the landscape for targets. The engine is the 180 hp Inline-6 Maybach HL66P. Though the prototype vehicles used the Panzer IV as the basis, it is predicted that in production, the vehicle would use the [[Pz.III F|Panzer III]] instead due to increased mobility of the suspension and running gear.

===Combat usage===
Trials with the two prototypes Krupp produced were done by Anti-tank Battalion 521. The battalion took the vehicles with them during Operation Barbarossa. One was destroyed due to catching fire and an ammunition explosion, but the other was able to last until the end of 1941.The sole vehicle also saw use in the German offensive Case Blue in Summer 1942, but it was not reported to be operational by the battalion afterwards. Opinion of the vehicle was that it was unsuitable for participation in a frontal assault due to its low armour and manoeuvrability. The gun was deemed effective in supporting an infantry assault and knocking out tanks, but the heavy muzzle blast caused large dust to obscure the gunner view, requiring an observer to watch where the shots land. No reports were made on engine and transmission problems, but there were issues with the brake system. Due to these issues, the Dicker Max did not see mass production for widespread usage. Thus, only the two prototypes were made before interest in the project dropped.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=germ_pzsfl_IVa_dickermax Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Images
<gallery mode="packed-hover" heights="200">
File:Dicker Max Gun Depression Tunisia.jpg|The Dicker Max showing off its amazing gun depression
</gallery>

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|4_cJ1CpEatw|'''Best gun depression''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 1:33 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''|bFXFsfhNXpE|'''Dicker Max''' - ''Napalmratte''}}

== See also ==
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''

* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''

== External links ==


* [[wt:en/devblog/current/882/|[Devblog] Pz.Sfl.IVa Dicker Max: 'Fat Max']]
* [[Wikipedia:10.5_cm_K_(gp.Sfl.)|[Wikipedia] 10.5cm K (gp.Sfl.)]]

{{Germany tank destroyers}}

T-70

2024-10-20T14:31:34Z

U103352677: /* Pros and cons */

{{Specs-Card
|code=ussr_t_70_1942
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' was a Soviet tank developed from the preceding [[T-60]] light tank. The T-70 replaced the T-60 in the role of reconnaissance tank as well as replacing the T-50 in the role of infantry support. The hull armour of the T-70 stayed the same as the T-60s, however a new turret featuring the 45 mm 20-K gun was installed with 50 mm thick armour at the front and 35 mm on the sides and back of the turret. The T-70 was designed by N. Astrov, the designer of the previous T-60 light tank at Factory No.38 in Kirov. The T-70 was powered by two automobile GAZ-202 engines which were placed on each side of hull, this proved problematic and after a few dozens were made, the engines were moved in-line on the right side of the hull. The conical turret was also replaced by a welded one allowing for easier production and moved to the left side of the hull. On 6th July 1943, Lieutenant B.V. Pavlovich destroyed four german tanks, three medium tanks and one Panther near the village of Pokrovka. On 26th March 1944, Sergeant Alexander Pegov ambushed a column of approximately 18 German tanks singlehandedly and took out one Panther, and immobilized another. The T-70 retreated and Pegov was promoted to a lieutenant and received the Hero of the Soviet Union award, the highest Soviet Military award at that time. The T-70s remained in service until 1948 and served as a basis for the SU-76 tank destroyer and ZSU-37 self-propelled anti-aircraft gun.

The T-70 was introduced during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. The T-70 is an upgunned T-60 tank, it shares the same two crew layout, meaning any penetrating hit will be fatal. The armour itself offers good protection due to its sloping, although HEAT-equipped cannons like those found on the German [[Pz.IV F1]] or high velocity guns such as the PaK 36(r) found on the [[Marder III|Marder]] tank destroyer have no issue penetrating the armour and destroying the T-70 in single hit. The T-70 is capable of penetrating nearly all its opponents with few exceptions such as the [[Matilda III]]. Flanking should still be the primary playstyle of the T-70, as it excels in ambushing due to its small size and low silhouette.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}


With sloped 50 mm and 35 mm on the turret and hull, the turret can take quite a beating and have sustained no lasting damage other than scratches on the glorious green paint. However, note that you only have 2 crew members in an extremely cramped crew compartment and, especially if your enemy has a tank of higher BR, you're unlikely to survive more than one penetrating hit. As like most tanks, the weak spots are the side and back, and even .50 cal bullets will easily go through the thin side. That's why you must present the sloped front armour of the vehicle to the enemy, increasing the likelihood of bounces and non-penetration.

'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour
* Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet)

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 35 mm (62°) ''Front glacis'' 35 mm (33-71°) ''Driver's port'' 45 mm (31°) ''Lower glacis''|| 15 mm || 10 mm (70°) ''Top'' 25 mm (43°) ''Bottom'' || 35 mm (28°) ''Front glacis'' 10 mm ''Fighting compartment'' 10 mm (19-25°) ''Rear''
|-
| Turret || 35 mm (25°) ''Turret front'' 50 mm (cylindrical) ''Gun mantlet'' || 35 mm (22-25°) ''Sides'' 35+15 mm (22-25°) ''Joint areas'' || 35 mm (28-30°) || 15 mm
|-
|}
'''Notes:'''

* Suspension wheels are 10 mm thick while tracks are 15 mm thick.

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp=217|rbMinHp=124}}

The {{PAGENAME}}'s forward speed is good but nothing impressive compared to the BT series. It does help you get out of sticky situations and it makes enemies harder to aim at your weak points. Though not the fastest, the T-70 can get to places within an acceptable time frame. Speed and acceleration are slightly lower on soft/uneven ground. Reverse speed is very poor and will not quickly get the tank out of danger, but fortunately the T-70's frontal protection increases its survivability while it slowly reverses.

With two car engines crammed together, this small tank is less than 10 tons with 254 HP - a quite decent HP/ton ratio. The suspension is very smooth, providing some ability to fire on the move, but also making it more difficult to quickly engage an enemy after stopping, as the vehicle will keep rocking back-and-forth until the suspension settles.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|20-K (45 mm)}}

The T-70 has a decent cannon for its BR. Although it's the same gun as on the [[BT-5]], it is still sufficient to penetrate common enemies. Stock round has a maximum penetration of 70 mm. Combined with the 29 g TNT, it is almost certain that the T-70 will frontally knock out every tank with a single shot. Even at more than 500 m away from the target, it still has 40-50 mm of penetration which is still enough to go through a lot of tanks' frontal armour. The tank has 6 degrees of gun depression which is only enough for some terrain, so it should be avoided to get into a hilly terrain. The 5 second reload (stock) isn't the best for its calibre which encourages the player to aim carefully at weak spots and disable the opponent in one shot. When facing heavily armoured tanks like the B1 and Matilda, the researchable APCR becomes pretty handy, but remember to only shoot at flat armour up close since APCR rounds lose penetration over distance or when hitting angled armour.

While the hull's shape is similar to late and post-war Soviet vehicles ([[T-54 (1947)|T-54 1947]], [[T-44]], etc.), it is shorter and not angled as much. Still, this armour configuration is efficient and makes the most out of this little amount of steel, meaning the tank can bounce some shots if angled properly. The lower frontal plate, while thicker, is not angled as much, but transmission prevents most shots from injuring the crew when penetrating. The frontal armour of the turret is a semi-circular 50 mm thick steel plate, which provides decent protection at long ranges (very bouncy). Thanks to its small profile, this tank's turret are nearly invincible when hulled-down at ranges since no gun is accurate enough at this BR to efficiently take down the light tank. Beware the thin side armour, however: most HMGs can penetrate it, and the ammo rack located on the left side makes the tank even more vulnerable, so make sure it's protected.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[20-K (45 mm)|45 mm 20-K]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 90 || rowspan="2" | -6°/+20° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 5.71 || 7.91 || 9.60 || 10.62 || 11.29 || rowspan="2" | 5.20 || rowspan="2" | 4.60 || rowspan="2" | 4.24 || rowspan="2" | 4.00
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 3.57 || 4.20 || 5.10 || 5.64 || 6.00
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{{:20-K (45 mm)/Ammunition|BR-240, BR-240SP, BR-240P}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''90''' || 77 ''(+13)'' || 61 ''(+29)'' || 41 ''(+49)'' || 21 ''(+69)'' || 1 ''(+89)'' || No
|-
|}
'''Notes''':

* Racks disappear after you've fired all shells in the rack.
* To go into battle with the flank almost empty of ammo, pack 21 ''(+69)'' (racks 1 to 4 empty).

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}

{{main|DT (7.62 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[DT (7.62 mm)|7.62 mm DT]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Coaxial || 945 (63) || 600 || N/A || N/A
|-
|}

The small calibre of the DT machine gun makes it largely ineffective against all armoured vehicles but the ones with an open compartment. It still can be used to ping targets as a rangefinding help. The clip capacity of the machine gun is quite poor, as it relies on a magazine of 63 bullets instead of a belt like similar machine guns from other nations.

== Usage in battles ==

Unlike later tanks, the T-70 presents a strange configuration: motor and turret are side by side, meaning that exposing the tank's back will not immobilize it. With its turret definitively leaning to the left, a smart player will prefer going around corners with the obstacle on the right side of the tank. This tactic has two effects: it decreases the size of the target for the enemy and protects the crew with the engine block, at the expense of being immobilized if shot from the right side. Try to avoid being shot to the left side since there is a big ammo rack on the whole left side of the vehicle. The rocky suspension puts T-70 at a disadvantage in sudden one-on-one encounters, so rushing for the nearest piece of cover instead of stopping to take aim may be a better option, unless the enemy is unaware of the light tank. Any player familiar with low-rank tanks will be comfortable with the [[20-K (45 mm)|45 mm 20-K]] cannon. Some peculiarities to the T-70 is its good gun depression of -6° and slow turret traverse.

'''Enemies worth noting:'''

* [[Pz.III J1]]: the Pz.IIIs equipped with long-barreled 50 mm cannons are threatening due to their high penetration. Even the T-70's sloped 35 mm UFP will not stop their rounds. The T-70 will get destroyed easily upon being penetrated due to the cramped interior with only 2 crews. Luckily the Pz.IIIs are also poorly protected against T-70's 45 mm gun. The turret is especially weak so it is generally a good idea to disable their turret crews. Note that when angling, the Pz.IIIs' hull armour can become stronger than they appear thus harder to penetrate.
* [[B1 bis]]/[[B1 ter|ter]]: the B1 heavy tanks are the true tough nuts to crack. It is generally a good idea to engage them as close as you can get, the ideal distance being point blank. This way you can utilise your superior manoeuvrability and maximise your penetration. Both B1s cannot reliably penetrate the T-70's frontal armour, so you can confidently take some hits. Aim at their turret ring, or if that is bushed up, their commander's cupola to disable the 47 mm cannon's gunner. The shrapnel may also destroy the turret ring. You can also break its tracks to pin it down. Do not waste your shells at anywhere else other than these 3 spots when the B1 faces you frontally. When the B1 is immobile, quickly flank it. If it is a B1 bis (flat hull side and exposed tracks), flank to its side and hit its flat hull side without any angling. If it is a ter model (slightly sloped hull side with larger mudguards above the tracks), manoeuvre to its rear and destroy its engine as your shells will most likely bounce off its thickened side. Fire at its turret and knock out the turret gunner again and again until it has no crew left to replenish said position, giving you the kill.
* [[Pz.IV C]] & [[Pz.IV E]]: the HEAT shells of the short-barreled 75 mm KwK37 cannon can frontally penetrate the T-70. With the disadvantage of only having 2 crew, it is easily knocked out by a single shot.

=== Pros and cons ===

'''Pros:'''

* Good sloped frontal armour
* Relatively good gun with high penetration
* Good machine gun
* Compact size makes it a small target
* Thick gun mantlet

'''Cons:'''

* Only two crew members
* Slow reloading
* Very vulnerable from sides
* Very slow turret traverse (hand cranked)

== History ==

===Development===
In 1942, advances in armoured warfare caused light tanks in Soviet service to be considered inadequate in terms of protection, firepower, and mobility in comparison to the all-around [[T-34 (1941)|T-34]] medium tank. The only advantage the light tanks present was that small factories could produce these, unable to handle the machining process of the medium and heavy tanks in Soviet service. The two light tanks in service however, the [[T-50]] and the [[T-60]] were inadequate in terms of Soviet doctrine. The T-50 was complicated and expensive to produce, and the T-60 had poor cross-country mobility and a weak 20 mm autocannon.

The '''T-70''' light tank was designed to solve this issue, though it started with a glaring mechanical issue of having two engines, one for each track. The '''T-70M''', a redesigned version that is still called the "T-70", fixes this with one engine on the right side of the hull and normal transmission layout. The turret was also changed in the "M" designation to be easily welded and moved to the left of the hull to compensate for the engine on the right. In the end, it was a 9-ton tank with a 45 mm gun and only had two crew members.

However, at this point of the war, it is increasingly clear that the light tank and the role of an infantry tank were obsolete. The T-70 was also insufficient of coordinating an armoured unit due to the two crew members, forcing the commander in the turret to be a gunner, loader, and radio operator as well. An attempt to remedy this was the [[T-80]] light tank design, which was a stronger T-70 with a two-man turret, but was deemed unnecessary and all light tank production ceased in October 1943, with the remaining ones issued to artillery units or other rear-echelon duties.

===Combat usage===
Despite its inferiority, the T-70 had a few moments to shine. On July 6, 1943, Lt B.V. Pavlovich of the 49th Guards tank brigade engaged and destroyed four German medium tanks near Pokrovka village. On March 26, 1944, Sgt Alexander Pegov of the Third Guards tank army in a T-70 tank ambushed a [[Panther A|Panther tank]] in a range of 150 to 200 m with APCR rounds, setting it on fire. He immobilized another a moment later. The Panthers blocked a vital road as they were immobilized, and Pegov was decorated as a Hero of the Soviet Union.

The T-70 was also used as the platform for the SU-76 Soviet tank destroyer, featuring a wider and longer chassis. The main production variant for this tank destroyer was the [[SU-76M]]. The T-70 was also used as a basis for an anti-aircraft platform called the T-90 SPAAG. This was cancelled in 1943 in favour of the [[ZSU-37]] however, which is a repurposed SU-76M chassis.

The T-70 served all the way to 1948 in Soviet inventory. Despite its inferior status, it was a valuable war commodity as it helped fill in roles when the T-34 couldn't be spared to do so. About 8,226 of this vehicle was produced during its production life of 1942 to 1943.

{{break}}
{{Navigation-Start|{{Annotation|Archive of the in-game description|An archive of the historical description of the vehicle that was presented in-game prior to Update 1.55 'Royal Armour'}}}}
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}
This tank was adopted by the Red Army in 1942 as a replacement for the T-60 and put into mass production in three factories at once. In comparison to the T-60, it had stronger armour, more powerful weaponry and a powertrain consisting of two sequentially paired six-cylinder petrol engines. The transmission and driving wheels were placed in the front of the tank. The hull was welded together from rolled armour plates, and the welds were strengthened with rivets. The frontal and rear hull plates were set at a sloping angle. The vehicle was equipped with a 45 mm Mod. 1938 tank cannon and a DT coaxial machine gun. It was not equipped with a radio set.

T-70 light tanks served jointly with T-34 tanks in tank brigades and mixed regiments. They underwent their trial by fire in June-July 1942, suffering significant losses. Their first battles revealed the weaknesses of the new light tanks in combat. Their weaponry was not powerful enough to go toe to toe with German medium tanks, and their armour was insufficient for the tanks to be used for direct infantry support. In addition, there were only two tankers in the crew, one of which was overloaded with numerous responsibilities, and the vehicles had no means of communication. All of this significantly weakened their value in the units they operated in and led to increased losses.

According to some tank commanders, the T-70 was ideally suited for chasing retreating enemies, a characteristic which became important in 1943. The T-70's powertrain and running gear were more reliable than those of the T-34. This allowed them to make long treks. The T-70 was a quiet vehicle, in stark contrast to the roaring engine and rumbling tracks of the T-34, which could be heard from up to 1.5 km away at night.
{{Navigation-End}}

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=ussr_t_70_1942 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|VgnJeQkhhfQ|'''The Shooting Range #358''' - ''Pages of History'' section at 04:07 discusses the {{PAGENAME}}.|NB_xoF5F-YU|'''{{PAGENAME}}, Soviet, Tier-1, Light Tank''' - ''Angry Nerd Gaming''}}

== See also ==


;Related development

* [[SU-76M (Family)]]
* [[T-80]]
* [[ZUT-37]]

== External links ==


* [[wikipedia:T-70|[Wikipedia] T-70]]
* [https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=344 <nowiki>[Military Factory]</nowiki> T-70 Light Tank]

{{TankManufacturer GAZ}}
{{USSR light tanks}}

Ho-Ro

2024-10-20T14:29:44Z

U103352677: /* Pros and cons */

{{Specs-Card
|code=jp_type_4_ho_ro
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''{{Specs|name}}''' ({{Annotation|四式十五糎自走砲「ホロ」|Yon Shiki Jūgo Senchi Jisōhō "Ho-Ro"}}) is an open-topped self-propelled gun with a short-barreled 150 mm howitzer, based on the [[Chi-Ha]]. Being pressed instantly into service on its creation, a dozen or so were shipped to the Philippines together with the newly formed 1st Self-Propelled Artillery Company. While it did see combat with several confirmed Sherman destructions, it was effectively used in close-quarter combat rather than as an artillery piece, firing at Shermans at 100-200 m range in smokey and low visibility scenarios, and repositioning on each shot. Arriving in Dec 1944, the last Ho-Ro squad served until knocked out in Mar 1945 with the remainder of the company fighting until the end in the mountains as regular infantry.

Since its introduction in [[Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai"]], the Ho-Ro has gained a reputation for being one of the most powerful howitzer-equipped SPGs in the game despite its low battle-rating, right up there with the beloved [[KV-2 (Family)|KV-2]]. It is capable of destroying or severely disabling any opponent it meets (or more often ambushes), even against top-tier vehicles, mainly due to its extremely effective high-explosive shell. This is balanced, however, by the shell's low velocity, forcing the player to lob the shell in an arc at their opponent even for a short distance, and the vehicle's light armour and limited gun traverse compared to other SPGs.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

'''Armour type:'''

* Rolled homogeneous armour

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Armour !! Front !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
|-
| Hull || 12 mm (80°) ''Front glacis'' 15 mm (63°) ''Joint plate'' 25 mm (37-64°) ''Lower glacis'' || 25 mm (28-36°) ''Top Left'' 25 mm (25-26°) ''Top Right'' 20 mm ''Bottom'' || 17 mm (70°) 20 mm (4-69°) || 8.5-12 mm
|-
| Turret || 25 mm (15°) || 20 mm (0-11°) || N/A || 12 mm
|-
|}
'''Notes:'''

* Suspension wheels and tracks are both 15 mm thick.

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp=241|rbMinHp=150}}

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|Type 38 (150 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Type 38 (150 mm)|150 mm Type 38]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 24 || rowspan="2" | -10°/+20° || rowspan="2" | ±5° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 5.3 || 7.3 || 8.9 || 9.8 || 10.4 || rowspan="2" | 17.29 || rowspan="2" | 15.30 || rowspan="2" | 14.10 || rowspan="2" | 13.30
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 3.6 || 4.2 || 5.1 || 5.6 || 6.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====
{{:Type 38 (150 mm)/Ammunition|Type 95 APHE, Type 92 HE}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! Ammo part
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''24''' || ''Projectiles'' ''Propellants'' || 17 ''(+7)'' 1 ''(+23)'' || 9 ''(+15)'' N/A || 1 ''(+23)'' N/A || No
|-
|}
'''Notes''':

* The {{PAGENAME}} uses two-piece ammunition, composed of propellant bags (orange) and projectiles (yellow). Both have separate racks.
* Both projectiles and propellant bags are modeled individually and disappear after having been shot or loaded.
{{Clear}}

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}

{{main|Type 97 (7.7 mm)}}

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[Type 97 (7.7 mm)|7.7 mm Type 97]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Pintle || 3,000 (20) || 499 || -10°/+60° || ±60°
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==

The Ho-Ro is a fairly manoeuvrable SPG, and like many other open-topped vehicles, this is not one that should charge into the front-lines. Just like many of the other low-rank Japanese vehicles, it has no real armour protection from anything more than rifle-calibre MGs, and its ammo storage is literally a box mounted on top of the engine deck. The crew is very exposed, and the gun breech is mounted rather high on the chassis and can be easily knocked out. With this knowledge in mind, the Ho-Ro is best played by staying in the rear (but not distantly) of friendly tanks for short-range or point-blank artillery fire, along with finding hidden positions where it can attempt to be hull-down out of sight of the enemy.

Due to its low-velocity shell, the gun often needs to be aimed higher than the commander estimates when performing direct fire onto a target, but this also allows the vehicle to lob shells from behind shallow hills, out of the sight from opponents that may be camping or pushing into friendly territory on the other side. However, because its HE shell is so powerful, it is extremely risky to fire directly next to or very close to an enemy vehicle, as the light armour may not protect the crew, and the blast from the explosion it will certainly deal damage to the vehicle itself. The gun, while powerful, cannot traverse very far to either side, so to fire on tanks that are outside the arc of the gun's horizontal traverse, the entire hull must be traversed as well. The recoil of the gun is also an issue, as it throws the vehicle backwards rather severely, which means it loses target acquisition every time it fires.

One interesting note is the pintle-mounted MG on the roof, which has good elevation and a much wider range of horizontal fire than the main gun, which can be useful on spotting enemy tanks for teammates or dealing with [[:Category:Anti-aircraft_vehicles|SPAA]]s that have exposed crew members. However, it has a slower rate of fire than most other rifle-calibre MGs and its magazine capacity is pitiful. In conclusion, the Ho-Ro is a very defensive vehicle suited to supporting friendly tanks and ambushing the enemy on paths where they may attempt to flank around the map.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* 150 mm short barreled howitzer
** Low velocity and high arc allows to fire over hills and cover
** High TNT filler
*** Ability to destroy any tank
*** Can cause sufficient indirect splash and shrapnel damage on non-direct hits
* Roof-mounted LMG for self-defence against open tops/trucks
* Fair manoeuvrability for a self-propelled howitzer
* Good gun depression

'''Cons:'''

* Thinly armoured
** The extreme blast radius of the shell can destroy the vehicle itself at close range
** Gun crew is exposed from the rear
* Additional ammo rack is a rather exposed box on top of the engine
* Massive recoil causes the vehicle to be launched backwards after firing, requiring aiming adjustment after every shot
* Standard Japanese LMG with limited ammo
* Tall silhouette makes easy to spot

== History ==


The Type 4 Ho-Ro was a Self Propelled Gun developed by the Imperial Japanese Army, based off the German Grille series. It was developed off the Type 97 Chi-Ha chassis and used a 150 mm Krupp gun, considered outdated by 1942. It was used to combat American forces. Only a few were made, and out of those few, 8 were sunk with a Japanese ship somewhere in the Pacific. Usually deployed in groups of 4, it was used in the Philippines during late 1944 and then used in ones and twos on Okinawa, to a somewhat great effect. It was ineffective due to its 3 degrees of gun swing and 30 degrees of depression because of the gun mount's design. That gave it a small firing distance of 6,000 m. It also could only fire 5 shells per minute because of the breech-loader.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=jp_type_4_ho_ro Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

;Videos
{{Youtube-gallery|_xCgMBOiA8U|'''High-explosive power''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 5:23 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''}}

== See also ==


;Related Development

* [[Chi-Ha (Family)]]

;Tanks of comparable role, configuration, and era

* [[File:Germany flag.png|30px|link=]] [[15cm sIG 33 B Sfl]]
* [[File:Sweden flag.png|30px|link=]] [[Spj fm/43-44]]
* [[File:Britain flag.png|30px|link=]] [[Alecto I]]
* [[File:Italy flag.png|30px|link=]] [[Lancia 3Ro (100/17)]]
* [[File:USSR flag.png|30px|link=]] [[SU-122]]

== External links ==


* [[Wikipedia:Type_4_Ho-Ro|[Wikipedia] Type 4 Ho-Ro]]
* [https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/japan/type-4-ho-ro/ <nowiki>[Tank Encyclopedia] Type 4 Ho-Ro</nowiki>]
* [https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.php?armor_id=403 <nowiki>[Military Factory] Type 4 Ho-Ro</nowiki>]

=== References ===
<references />

{{TankManufacturer Mitsubishi}}
{{Japan tank destroyers}}

LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2)

2024-10-20T14:25:04Z

U103352677: /* Pros and cons */

{{About
| about = light tank '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
| usage = other versions
| link = LVT (Family)
}}
{{Specs-Card
|code=cn_lvt_4_zis_2
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
}}

== Description ==

The '''Amphibious Vehicle, Tracked, Armoured, Mark 4, 57 mm ZiS-2 - LVT(A)(4)(ZiS-2)''' is an up-gunned modification of the LVT(A)(4), which is the fourth armoured, infantry support variant of the [[LVT (Family)|Amphibious Vehicle, Tracked - LVT]]. The LVT(A)(4)(ZiS-2) was modified by the Chinese People's Liberation Army, which was based on the [[LVT(A)(4)]]. During the Chinese Civil War, the Chinese Nationalist Army deployed a large number of LVT(4)s and LVT(A)(4)s. Following the defeat of the Chinese Nationalist Army in 1949, the Chinese People's Liberation Army captured many of the LVT(4)s and LVT(A)(4)s. The Chinese People's Liberation Army removed the original turret mounting the 75 mm M2 howitzer and replaced it with the high-velocity 57 mm ZIS-2 anti-tank gun for dual anti-tank and infantry support purposes after the US stopped supplying ammunition for the original LVT(A)(4) to China after the Chinese Civil War ended.

Introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]], the LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) will provide Chinese Army ground forces players with a very unusual tank that combines U.S. and Soviet philosophies. Despite its light armour, the LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) proved to be a formidable opponent when matched against opponents of similar ranks. The high-velocity 57 mm ZiS-2 anti-tank gun allows players to engage opponents from a significantly greater range than the original LVT(A)(4). The tank, however, is extremely vulnerable to aircraft strafing and artillery hits because of its high profile and open-top turret.

== General info ==
=== Survivability and armour ===
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}

The LVT's large and spacious hull might seem to make it difficult to knock out all of its crew, but that's only true when you are getting shot from the side. From your side, there is a huge empty area between the driving compartment and the fighting compartment that will absorb any shell, regardless of their explosive fillers. However an experienced player will know to shoot at these two compartments and avoid the empty space. From the front, the spacious hull does not help to keep the crew safe as a penetrating shell will travel through the empty space and hit any crew at the back, so you could die sooner than you expected. Avoid tanks with solid shots, for example British/Swedish tanks.

'''Armour type:'''

*Rolled homogeneous armour
*Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet, Machine gun shield)

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Armour!!Front (Slope angle°)!!Sides!!Rear!!Roof
|-
|Hull
|
12.7 mm (31°) ''Front plate'' 
6.35 mm (83-84°) ''Upper glacis'' 
6.35 mm (41-81°) ''Lower glacis''
|
6.35 mm (11-51°) ''Top'' 
6.35 + 6.35 mm ''Bottom''
|6.35 mm (0-62°)
|6.35 mm
|-
|Turret
|
38 mm (10°) ''Turret front'' 
5 mm (1-81°) ''Gun mantlet''
|25 mm||25 mm||N/A
|-
|}

'''Notes:'''

* Suspension wheels and tracks are 15 mm thick.
* Front hull has flat armour area where driver & co-driver sits.

=== Mobility ===
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}


{{tankMobility|abMinHp=355|rbMinHp=221}}

The LVT's mobility is adequate. On hard surfaces it easily reaches its top speed of around 38 km/h. On soft surfaces it needs more time to accelerate, and the top speed is lowered. The hull traverse is great, allowing you to quickly change direction, however a downside is that when you turn the hull to aim, you might over-turn and swing the gun past the target, increasing the aiming time which can be fatal.

Due to its big and tall tracks, the LVT can drive over some obstacles that are too tall for normal-sized tanks.

=== Modifications and economy ===
{{Specs-Economy}}

Recommended research order:

#Parts and FPE to increase post-penetration survivability
#Horizontal drive to better the main gun's traverse speed
#Adjustment of Fire and Elevation Mechanism to further improve gun targeting speed and accuracy
#Mobility modifications & others
#BR-271K, it's the least important as the stock round is already very powerful against all tanks

== Armaments ==
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
=== Main armament ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}

{{main|ZIS-2 (57 mm)}}

The LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) is armed with a 57 mm ZiS-2 cannon. This cannon provides excellent firepower: the horizontal gun traverse of ±25° gives it a total of 50° traverse angle to the left and right, covering a large arc at the front which is generally enough to deal with most frontal engagements, reducing the need to traverse the hull. The vertical gun traverse of -5°/+15° is average, but considering that this LVT has its gun mounted high on top of a tall chassis, -5° gun depression will feel lacklustre in hilly environment. Sometimes though, the LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) can fire over some covers where other tanks cannot shoot over since it is so tall.

The gun rotation speed is around ~8°/s which is adequate when using this tank as a mid to long range (400-1,000 m) support vehicle or tank destroyer, but will be quite slow if using it for close quarter combat within 400 m. This makes it challenging to target fast vehicles like [[BT-5]], [[M22]], [[AB 41]], etc. The reload rate of ~8 seconds is average but will feel slow if a large group of enemies is to be engaged. The cannon's trajectory is very flat for a WW2 tank and thus becomes beginner friendly to perform distant shots. When using the LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) as a mid/long range vehicle, the 3.5x gunsight zoom will be somewhat inadequate as the target a few hundred metres away will appear very small making it hard to aim precisely.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[ZIS-2 (57 mm)|57 mm ZIS-2]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
|-
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
|-
! ''Arcade''
| rowspan="2" | 76 || rowspan="2" | -5°/+15° || rowspan="2" | ±25° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 10.6 || 14.6 || 17.8 || 19.6 || 20.9 || rowspan="2" | 8.7 || rowspan="2" | 7.7 || rowspan="2" | 7.1 || rowspan="2" | 6.7
|-
! ''Realistic''
| 7.1 || 8.4 || 10.2 || 11.3 ||12.0
|-
|}

==== Ammunition ====

* The stock BR-271 APHEBC shell performs excellently with its great penetration of ~143 mm and 21.5 g explosive filler. As such it can easily penetrate all tanks around this BR from the front, and cripple or destroy them with a single shot. The shell will follow a straight trajectory at a high velocity meaning it is a great long range weapon.
* The researchable BR-271K APHE shell has similar close-range penetration, velocity, and trajectory. It has a tiny bit more explosive filler (27.7 g) with a trade-off of a little worse ricochet angle and poorer long-range penetration. Thus the stock round will be effective for the great majority of the time.
* The O-271 HE shell is ineffective against conventional tanks due to its small explosive filler of only 220 g. Its blast and shrapnel are only useful when landing next to unarmoured vehicles like [[GAZ-AAA (DShK)|GAZ-AAA (DshK)]], [[Sd.Kfz. 6/2|Sd.Kfz 6/2]], [[Chi-Ha LG]], [[15cm sIG 33 B Sfl]], etc. It is not recommended to bring more than 4 of these rounds, as your hull MG can also finish the exposed crews on these vehicles.

{{:ZIS-2 (57 mm)/Ammunition|BR-271, BR-271K, O-271}}

==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
[[File:Ammoracks_LVT(A)(4)ZIS-2.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the LVT(A)(4) ZIS-2.]]

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
! Full ammo
! 1st rack empty
! 2nd rack empty
! 3rd rack empty
! 4th rack empty
! 5th rack empty
! 6th rack empty
! Visual discrepancy
|-
| '''76''' || 71 ''(+5)'' || 65 ''(+11)'' || 49 ''(+27)'' || 33 ''(+43)'' || 17 ''(+59)'' || 1 ''(+75)'' || No
|-
|}

=== Machine guns ===
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}

{{main|M1919A4 (7.62 mm)}}

The LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) has a hull-mounted 7.62 mm M1919A4 machine gun. This MG has a large 250-round belt providing great continuous fire. It has an average vertical traverse of -10°/+20° and horizontal traverse of ±15°. Due to its horizontal traverse being smaller than that of the main gun, this MG sometimes will not be able to shoot at where the main gun is aiming, and the player must turn the hull to acquire the target within the MG's traverse if they want to use the MG. Having poor penetration of less than 14 mm, the M1919 is only potent against exposed crew like on trucks and some SPGs (e.g. [[CCKW 353 AA|CCKW 353]], [[15cm sIG 33 B Sfl]]). It cannot damage lightly armoured vehicles like an M2 Browning does since most of these vehicles have gunshields with at least 10 mm thickness which is enough to stop the M1919's bullets.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
|-
! colspan="5" | [[M1919A4 (7.62 mm)|7.62 mm M1919A4]]
|-
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
|-
| Hull || 3,000 (250) || 500 || -10°/+20° || ±15°
|-
|}

== Usage in battles ==


The LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) is a fragile tank with a strong bite. The main gun is a very powerful Soviet ZiS-2 that have no problem penetrating through the hardest of enemies at its BR. Despite its size, it has great manoeuvrability that works on most terrain. Its high profile makes it a easy target for enemies to spot from afar and behind objects, fences and hills. The LVT(A)(4)'s thin hull armour makes it vulnerable to machine gun and autocannon fire. This makes Self Propelled Anti-Air vehicles and vehicles with 20 mm automatic cannons a lethal enemy, and large calibre guns with HEAT and HE can easily penetrate the thin armour and overpressure the LVT(A)(4).

The LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) has decent speed and is manoeuvrable enough to handle close combat with even while lacking a full 360° traversable turret. But to best counter the most dangerous of enemies is to utilize the long gun to its advantage.

You should memorise certain spots on different maps to make the most out of your amazing firepower. Pick spots that:

* Overlook a key passageway/street
* Are not too close or too far from the frontline
* Have hard cover/slopes around
* Are mostly flat (as your gun depression is bad and gun is mounted very high)
* Have some vegetation, if possible

This way you can sit at a comfortable spot, stay away from most dangers and target opponents that appear. The rather flat trajectory of your gun does not require as much elevation when shooting at distant targets which is beginner friendly, however the shell velocity is not fast, so you have to lead more than you think for moving targets. Because this is a sniper's tactic, if you are to bush up for better concealment, it is recommended to stack all bushes onto the upper front of the LVT. This is because you will mostly face targets from one direction only (your front) so you just have to cover up the front. The lower glacis does not need as much bush as it will usually get blocked by vegetation on the ground, acting as natural camouflage.

'''Enemies worth noting:'''

[[M4A3 (105)]]: this low-tier Sherman is one tough tank to destroy, but luckily your LVT is one of the few that can destroy it with ease (most of the time). Within 500 m, your default shell can easily penetrate its frontal/side armour with an appropriate angle. You can also penetrate its turret between the edge of the gun mantlet and the gun barrel. A penetrating shell is very likely to knock out most of its crew. However, when it's angling, hull down, or >500 m away, either aim really carefully at the turret or wait until it reveals other weak spots (e.g. side). Note that you will be easily destroyed with overpressure by its HE or HEAT shells so avoid getting hit by it.

[[Pz.II (Disambiguation)|Pz.II]]/[[Flakpanzer 38]]: these German 20 mm cannons are a huge threat to the LVT since they can easily tear through the thin armour even at longer distances. Their high rate of fire also means that they can quickly knock out the LVT's crew or disable multiple critical components like the huge transmission and engine. But these vehicles are fairly easy to knock out with a single shot from your powerful 57 mm cannon.

=== Against the LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) ===

* '''Light tanks & SPAAs''': light vehicles (e.g. [[M2A4]], Pz.[[Pz.35(t)|35(t)]], [[Strv m/31]], etc) usually have limited post-penetration damage and can therefore struggle to destroy large tanks like the LVT. To effectively engage an LVT, you must memorise all of its crew's locations. If the LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) is facing you, shoot at the right side of its turret to disable its gunner, or shoot at its completely exposed gun breech to disarm it. You can also hit its flat gunshield with your MG if within 100 m as it is only 5 mm. Then use your quick reload to knock out its driver on the right side of the frontal hull, then go after the remaining crew. If the LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) is facing away from you, make sure that you are not within its horizontal aiming arc, then disable its driver or engine. Then finish off the rest of the crew. If you are caught from a distance but your tank is very fast (e.g. [[M22]], [[BT-5]]) try driving at full speed and chance course randomly, the LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) has slow gun aiming speed and can struggle to keep its gun on you.
* '''Medium tanks & heavy tanks & tank destroyers''': these vehicles such as [[M4]], [[B1 bis]], [[Marder III]] have better armour and/or firepower. Still, their armour cannot withstand a direct hit from the LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2)'s deadly cannon. If you must make a move, try exposing the frontal armour of your tank at an extreme angle to ricochet the LVT's 57 mm shell, then go out of cover and return fire as it reloads. Since most of these tanks have reload speeds slower than light vehicles, you must make your shots count: don't shoot at the area below the turret if it's a side shot as there is absolutely nothing inside there. The crew are all located inside the turret and the front driving compartment.

=== Pros and cons ===


'''Pros:'''

* Very powerful cannon for its BR: 145 mm penetration can effectively go through any tank frontally, even in an uptier; upon penetration the 20 g TNT does a great job at finishing off most, if not all the crew
* Good mobility
** Somewhat fast, and has great hull traverse and manoeuvrability
** Is amphibious, meaning it can launch surprise attacks using rivers and lakes
* Five crew members with huge space between them increases survivability, especially against small-calibre guns with little explosive filler
* Sloped turret sides can lead to some shells bouncing
* When moving on calm waters the gun will get a stabilizer effect, this will allow firing on the move

'''Cons:'''

* Poor Survivability
** Massive hull means a huge silhouette, rather easy to spot and hit
** Very thin armour, can be penetrated by any cannon/heavy MG
** Easily destroyed with overpressure by large-calibre HE and HEAT rounds
** The crew in the open-topped turret are very close together, meaning they can be taken out in a single shot or by aircraft
* Below-average 5° gun depression plus the tall hull makes it quite difficult to fight in hilly terrain
* Very slow reverse speed can prevent it from retreating back to cover in time
* The turret is unable to rotate 360°
* Poor zoom of the gunsight makes it hard to see and aim at distant targets
* no low-speed stabilizer unlike the [[LVT(A)(1)]]

== History ==

The LVT series of tracked amphibious vehicles originated from a pre-war civilian design, the ''Alligator'' hurricane rescue vehicle which had been designed by Donald Roebling (1908-1959) in 1935. An article on a further development of this vehicle in 1937 caught the attention of the US Marine Corps, but initially the proposal of militarising the Alligator met resistance both from the US Navy, who felt conventional landing craft could do the job just as well, and from Roebling himself, who disliked the idea of his vehicle being used for military purposes. The outbreak of war in Europe persuaded Roebling into building it anyway, and by May of 1940 he had completed a militarised prototype, which was tested in November 1940 and subsequently approved for production.

Even before the first prototype had been tested, Roebling had started designing a turret-equipped armed version of his LVT, intended for providing fire support for landings. Originally the design languished, but in June of 1941 the USMC recommended the development of a fire support version of the LVT. Development of this variant was slow, as the entire LVT had to be redesigned: light armour was added to the hull and a 37 mm armed turret similar to that of the M3 Stuart light tank was mounted on top, resulting in the initial fire support variant, the LVT(A)(1).

Combat experience with the LVT(A)(1) soon showed that the 37 mm gun was insufficient for fire support purposes, so the original M3 Stuart turret was replaced by that of a 75 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage M8, creating the LVT(A)(4) variant, of which 1890 were built. Of these, several dozen were delivered to Nationalist China under the Lend-Lease Agreement.

In KMT service, the LVT(A)(4) ended up being used both against the Japanese forces during World War II, as well as against the PLA during the ensuing civil war. Most of them eventually fell into PLA hands. The lack of western supplies meant that ammo soon became sparse for the 75 mm M3 Howitzer gun mounted by the LVT(A)(4); to keep them useful as well as to bolster the number of available armoured vehicles in the PLA inventory, the LVT(A)(4)s were locally converted to either accept the 37 mm M6 tank gun - essentially retrofitting them to LVT(A)(1) status - or the 57 mm ZiS-2 anti tank gun - identical to the gun used on the [[ZiS-30]] tank destroyer, and technically similar to the ZiS-4 gun used on both the [[T-34-57]] and the [[SU-57B]].

The haphazard way in which these conversions took place, as well as the lack of official documents on them, make it unclear how many LVT(A)(4)s were converted. The lack of available spares for their automotive components makes it unlikely that they were used for long, and it is likely they were withdrawn from frontline use as soon as Soviet deliveries of tanks and armoured vehicles started in the early 1950s.

== Media ==


;Skins

* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=cn_lvt_4_zis_2 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]

== See also ==


;[[LVT (Family)|Related development]]

* [[LVT(A)(4) ZIS-2 (USA)]] - Identical gift vehicle in the US tree

== External links ==
''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''

* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''other literature.''

{{TankManufacturer Food Machinery Corporation (FMC)}}
{{China tank destroyers}}